mysterious unexplained catastrophic damage

[popeye]

So, I'm fresh out of pearl, and have been ordered to the south china sea, to sink some jap ships, and two freighters sail right up to me. not seeing anyone with any naval guns lurking about, i opened fire with the deck gun, and got my first 5000 tons.

an hour or so later, a bigger freighter sails across my path. i gave him a torpedo, before several rounds from the gun sent him to hell.

now withing a few hundred miles of my deployment zone, i set course. just as day come up, and i'm wondering if i should dive to hide from any air patrols, i see an airplane. he is not on course for me, so i have time to crash dive before he makes any attack.

heres where it gets weird.

at about 90 (meters) i started getting severe damage reports, and then my sub asploded. all hands lost.

i didnt hit anything, and i was too deep to get hit by the plane. it was like i sailed into the bermuda triangle.

any idea what got me?

[PepsiCan]

Hi

Maybe you hit the bottom? The China Sea and Yellow Sea are rather shallow.

And there are a few oddities about the damage model. My sub got damaged mysteriously as well the other day. About the same depth as you (I sail a Gar class). I must have either gotten some damage running aground earlier or because of a run in with a dingy.

[Redwine]

So, I'm fresh out of pearl, and have been ordered to the south china sea, to sink some jap ships, and two freighters sail right up to me. not seeing anyone with any naval guns lurking about, i opened fire with the deck gun, and got my first 5000 tons.

an hour or so later, a bigger freighter sails across my path. i gave him a torpedo, before several rounds from the gun sent him to hell.

now withing a few hundred miles of my deployment zone, i set course. just as day come up, and i'm wondering if i should dive to hide from any air patrols, i see an airplane. he is not on course for me, so i have time to crash dive before he makes any attack.

heres where it gets weird.

at about 90 (meters) i started getting severe damage reports, and then my sub asploded. all hands lost.

i didnt hit anything, and i was too deep to get hit by the plane. it was like i sailed into the bermuda triangle.

any idea what got me?

As Pepsican wrote, may be you hit the bottom.

A mine is not an option, sure they are not present at 90m depth.

There are more options...

Which sub you was sailing ?

Had you taked damage before this incident ?

If yes...

When you take some kind of damage, your crush depth is dramatically reduced, then if you sail a sub with a small crush depth, as S Class, Gar, Porpoise, Salmon or similar... at 90 you are done...

And this... assuming you use increased crush depth mod.... if not, you may be crushed even a little under periscope depth.

If this is the case, you was victim of the suddently "domino" effect... as it is called/knowed by "folks".

90m depth is not a safe depth even for a Gato and Balao with increased crush depths if you had teked damage previouslly....

I wait for your feed back on this... i am interested because Pcelt and me was working and testing a little pack of tweaks called "Die Slowly", to minimize this effect.

:up::up::up:

[Limerick]

While I don't believe it is the answer to all these mysterious sinkings there are mines in the game and the last I came across was 100ft down and anchored in 1500 ft of water.

Mar 42 142.32 E x 41.59 N .3 nm north on the 142.32 line then .5nm W on the 41.59 line.

Cruising along at 90 ft and got the "OMG we are sinking" feeling.

[popeye]

like i said, i had just left pearl harbour, and only gunned down a few odd merchants. i had'nt entered the south china sea yet either, i was still to the east of the archipeligo, in quite deep water. it was around 1500 in that area, as i had just tested it.

no mine, no hitting the bottom, and not anywhere near what i would consider crush depth for a tambour class.

uss trout. hehe.

[popeye]

100ft down and anchored in 1500 ft of water

*maybe thats what it was. i sure as hell didn't get any warning.

[Limerick]

In 1500 ft of water.....http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/lane2512/mine3.jpg

[Redwine]

While I don't believe it is the answer to all these mysterious sinkings there are mines in the game and the last I came across was 100ft down and anchored in 1500 ft of water.

Mar 42 142.32 E x 41.59 N .3 nm north on the 142.32 line then .5nm W on the 41.59 line.

Cruising along at 90 ft and got the "OMG we are sinking" feeling.
Popeye wrote 90 meters not 90 feet, i think so the campaign builder not put a minefiled at 90 meters, but... everything is posible. :up:



@ Popeye... was you damaged previously to this suddent kill ?

If you had taked previous damage, and you dive to 90 meters in a Tambor Class... you are done, even with increased crush depth mod applied.

[PepsiCan]

90 meters? Of course! Here's an explanation for you. All submarines, except for Gato and Balao class subs have a maximum depth of 80 meters or less. You took yours to 90 meters, so your sub was below test depth. You cannot stay below test depth for too long (assuming you are not using a Gato or Balao class).

Sorry I didn't spot that earlier.

[popeye]

i don't know if the depth gauge is in feet or meters. i was at 90-100. whatever unit it's marked in. in the previous patrol, usually dove to 160 to evade DD's. same boat. i guess its feet then.

no previous damage.

nice mine pic by the way. i did not see any of those, but i wasnt looking either. would you get some warning from the crew? at least go to normal time...

[CaptainHaplo]

The meters/feet question is a good one - if you were at 90 meters - thats around 300 feet - give or take a bit. Likely to deep for a mine - but deep enough to crush depending. If you were at feet - you likely struck a mine - 90 feet is definitely shallow enough for em.

[Limerick]

No warning. No TC slow down. It was one of those 'OMG I'm sinking' notices.
I loaded a saved game and gridded out the area and started running around at 90 ft until it happened again. Finally pinpointed it and got the shot.

[popeye]

it happened again. what units is my depth guage marked in???? is 160 meters too deep? or is it feet??

the japs must love it when i skuttle my own boat.

** i just tried it again, and it is certainly marked in feet. my officer tells me its feet. its in feet. So...

my tambor class sub implodes if i go deeper than 150 ft?? i looked around and didnt see any mines. this is the third time this has happened.

im getting unhappy till i figure out what the problem is.

[popeye]

bump...

i edited my last post, in order to say, i have tested this a few times, and my tambor class sub cannot submerge below 150 FEET, without imploding.

i know this is wrong, and would like to know what to do about this.

the only idea i have at the moment, that i still retain some hull damage from a previous patrol (only 1 prior).

is this possible??

[Lagger123987]

*I hate mines! Now I hate them!

[Jmack]

well i ordered crash dive and then 90 meters next i reduced speed and ordered silent running... when reached 90 meters everything started to fall apart engines first !!! there was no way to fix everything ... i spended all ballast trying to recover from the dive. it went down untill the death camera

its terrible after the first thing breaks down everything else follows

how much could they dive in meters anyway ?

oh i was in a salmon

[popeye]

the tambor has a test depth of 250ft. the gauge doesn't GO that high!!!!!!!!! it only goes to 170-80.

something is wrong here.

[PepsiCan]

Popeye

You can change the scale on the dials. Move your mouse arrow right under the depth meter. Then click it. Change the settings and you can now move your dial way beyond maximum depth for even a Balao class sub.

And I think hull damage only gets repaired when you end your patrol. Doing a refit does not fix everything.

yours

Arie

[Redwine]

the tambor has a test depth of 250ft. the gauge doesn't GO that high!!!!!!!!! it only goes to 170-80.

something is wrong here.
Hi Popeye...

At first you need to know what are you using, feet or meters.

It is into game options.

Then, if you click in the button under the depth dial, you go to the extended scale dial, after V1.2 there is a red needle indicating what is you crush depth.

it is not true at all, because the position for this red needle is commanded by the sub xxx.cfg file, i set all my red needles at about 15 meter prior the crush depth.

The crush depth is commanded by another files, sub xxx.zon files, and it is wrong called "crash depth" there...

In example, i have adjusted for my Balao class, Crash Depth (the crush depth) as 186 meters, into the Balao .zon file, and the red needle at 165 meters into the Balao .cfg file.

Then... you need to know if you are using feet or meters.... go to the game options.

If you use the stock files, subs has reduced crush depths, if you have modified files, you have increased crush depths

Are you using modified .zon files ?

If not...

You can modify them using MiniTweaker from TimeTraveller.

Or download the increased crush depth files into the mod list topic.

Now.... you can be sure which is your "NON DAMAGED" crush depth.

And... you must to remember, if you taked damage previously.... the adjusted crush depth value is DRAMATICALLY reduced.

Even if you have modified crush depth values, increased values, if you had teaked damage previouslly, at 90m you are done...

And may be at 90 feet too...

Without tweaked files, after take severe damage, some times you start up the domino effect even if you dive to peri depth.

It depend on hull damage... some times you can dive to peri depth safe, some times you can dive to 20 or 30m, but another times at 20 or 30 meters you start up the domino effect, and you are done.

Not thust on the crew message "hull is reapired sir" or "hull is intact sir", it is a lie... they are really talking about the "Bulkhead" not "HULL".

Even with this 'safe" message, you may have severe hull damage, to know it you must to save the mission and read the saved files, is the only place where the hull damage is showed.

I made a small pack of tweaks, not solve this problem, but made it to happens not often, and most of the times you are able to dive at crash depth (40m) safe after take damage.

look for "Die Slowly Stage 13c" here...

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine

[GTHammer]

Ok...*Deep Breath#... so If I have taken some fairly harsh damage, repaired it until nothing shows up in damage report, also I went in and refitted a couple of times to load up on torps, then went back out and sank almost instantly after a brief skirmish with a armed merchant did minor damage and I tried to submerge afterward...does this mean that A. Refitting doesn't affect your altered crush depth? B. Hull damage still exists after refits/it says its repaired(That is if it even actually is repaired and not just the bulkheads.)? or C. Both or a mixture of the two? Also is there anywhere to see how much damage your hull has taken?

[popeye]

Also is there anywhere to see how much damage your hull has taken?

not that i have seen, and i heard people in here say, no, it not a game feature for some inexpicable reason.

[kakemann]

Redwine's Die slowly mod is great! I'm using it, very satisfied! Thanks Redwine :up:

[Redwine]

Also is there anywhere to see how much damage your hull has taken?

not that i have seen, and i heard people in here say, no, it not a game feature for some inexpicable reason.

You must to save the game, and look into the saved game files, there is the only place where the hull damage is recorded. :up:


Redwine's Die slowly mod is great! I'm using it, very satisfied! Thanks Redwine :up:

Many thanks ! :up:

Check for last version "Die Slowly Stage 13c"

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine

I am thinking into introduce a change, almost as optional, to rise up the diesel engines and propeller axis hitpoints too much, i am tired to loss both and remains with no propulsion.

If a depth charge destroy my both diesel engines, sure... my hull was blasted and sub must be destroyed.

:up:

[popeye]

beginning my 3rd patrol, i tested the max dive depth again. i made it all the way down to near 400 ft. before the boat gave out, killing us all. i still don't know what happened before, but i guess i'll get over it.