Food, showers, medical care aboard subs.

[Convoystalker]

Greetings everyone.
I'm curious about everyday creature comforts & routines aboard WW2 submarines especially food, the availability of showers and medical care.
..... thankyou.


Question 1.
Were there dedicated food preparation facilities aboard subs enabling baking of bread, cooking hot meals, refrigerators.
Were there food freezers where meat & vegies could be stored ?
Were there dedicated cooks for the entire ship or each watch ? how did it work 24 hours a day ?
Could crew raid the fridge for snacks ? Was there a pot of coffee on the brew at all times ?
What sort of meals could be expected each day & how many times did crew eat daily ?
Did the menu vary ?
Was there alcohol aboard ?.
Did the crew have access to coca cola or similar soft drinks ?
Was there a dedicated eating area ? Did crew eat off trays ? I imagine china would be something of a liability on subs :)
Did subs ever stop off at islands to trade for food with natives ?


Question 2.
Showers .... were there showers aboard and if so how often were these facilities available to each crewman. I imagine with 70 people aboard a relatively small vessel it would require a lot of water :)

Question 3.
Medical care.
What happens if someone caught a cold or flu ?. I imagine this was easily possible for the watch crew in rough weather.
What about life threatening emergencies such as appendix ?
What happened if there were serious concussions, broken bones, gunshot or shrapnel wounds after DC or air attacks.

[mookiemookie]

Were there dedicated food preparation facilities aboard subs enabling baking of bread, cooking hot meals, refrigerators.
Were there food freezers where meat & vegies could be stored ?
Yes. Here's a picture I took of the galley of the Cavalla (she's in rough shape, but you get the idea):

http://public.fotki.com/mookiemookie/uss-cavalla-torpedo-load/p1010022.html


Could crew raid the fridge for snacks ? Was there a pot of coffee on the brew at all times ?
From what I've read, sandwiches and coffee were available all the time.


Was there alcohol aboard ?

Regulations forbid alcohol on board, but that didn't stop many boats from carrying liquor rations as "depth charge medicine" ;)


Was there a dedicated eating area ? Did crew eat off trays ? I imagine china would be something of a liability on subs :)
Yes, here's a picture of the crew's mess. It doubled as a lounge for off duty sailors:

http://public.fotki.com/mookiemookie/uss-cavalla-torpedo-load/p1010021.html

Not sure about sailors, but officers did indeed dine off of real plates.



Showers .... were there showers aboard and if so how often were these facilities available to each crewman. I imagine with 70 people aboard a relatively small vessel it would require a lot of water :)
Imagine squeezing yourself into this shower:

http://public.fotki.com/mookiemookie/uss-cavalla-torpedo-load/p1010018.html

Showers were not unheard of, but they were curtailed in order to conserve fresh water. My dad served on the Skate in the late 60's and said that if you were smart, you became friends with the machinist's mates because they could get you buckets of condensation from off of the equipment.


What about life threatening emergencies such as appendix ?

At least twice during the war there were emergency appendectomies performed on the boat. In one case, the skipper took the boat below to give a relatively steady operating environment, the galley was disinfected with torpedo fuel alcohol, and the pharmacist's mate performed a successful surgery using a navy issue scalpel and bent spoons for spreaders. Of course this sort of thing was not encouraged by COMSUBPAC! ;)

There was a proposal at one point during the war that all submarine sailors have their appendex removed to avoid this sort of thing, but it never went anywhere.

What happened if there were serious concussions, broken bones, gunshot or shrapnel wounds after DC or air attacks.
The pharmacist's mate could give basic first aid and stabilize the patient, but in the case of serious wounds, a sailor might have to be returned to base. If the sub was not on it's return trip, it might radio in and COMSUBPAC would arrange for another boat to meet the sub and the patient could be offloaded and returned to medical facilities.

[AntEater]

Question 1.
Were there dedicated food preparation facilities aboard subs enabling baking of bread, cooking hot meals, refrigerators.

There was a galley, and compared to german U-boats it was quite roomy

Were there food freezers where meat & vegies could be stored ?
There was a cold storage area below the control room, abaft of the pump room.

Were there dedicated cooks for the entire ship or each watch ? how did it work 24 hours a day ?
Cooks did not go watches like the rest of the crew, but had to prepare the usual meals plus any extras ordered by the captain. During combat, cooks double as medics or additional damage control personell

Could crew raid the fridge for snacks ? Was there a pot of coffee on the brew at all times ?
You can't raid fridges on any warship, but maybe crewmembers could store snacks they bought ashore there, if they were pals of the cook. Access to the fridge would be limited to the cooks, inspecting officers and sailors who had their cleaning station there.
According to the "fleet boat manual", there was a huge coffee pot (20 liters) with a tap running 24/7 in the crew's mess. The wardroom did not have that, they had to order coffee from their pantry.

What sort of meals could be expected each day & how many times did crew eat daily ?
Usual meals are breakfast, dinner, supper, plus a midnight meal for the 0-4 watch ("pig's watch" in the german navy, how is its name in the USN?)

Did the menu vary ?
Not very much, I suppose. But then again, the Burger was not yet invented, so the menus might even have been more varied than today :D

Was there alcohol aboard ?.
The US Navy was officially "dry" and still is today. All other (non muslim) navies in the world allow alcohol in limited quantities. In the german navy, it is two beers per man and day. For special occasions, there is a rum call:)

Did the crew have access to coca cola or similar soft drinks ?
Would have taken too much storage space. I am not sure wether the notorious "bug juice"; non sparkling soft drink made from artificially smelling syrup in serveral "flavors" (colours actually) was allready around in WW2. If not, it was coffee or water. In the german navy, this drink is rumoured to contain "Hängolin", something of an anti-viagra :D

Was there a dedicated eating area ? Did crew eat off trays ? I imagine china would be something of a liability on subs :)
US subs had a crew mess (in contary to U-Boats), but it was definitely too small for the whole crew to eat there at once. If that was to happen (special occasion or so), benches in the torpedo rooms and quarters were to be used. The crew mess was for every enlisted rank group, the wardroom was for officers.
Usually, aboard a warship (in the US as well as the german navy), the officers eat from China (carefully stored) while the enlisted men eat from tin trays not unsimilar to those in hospitals. The food is the same for both, and usually it is fresher in the crew's mess as the galley is closer.

Did subs ever stop off at islands to trade for food with natives ?
No. Even in the 1940s western stomachs would have been unable to cope with that without any undesirable side effects ;)

Question 2.
Showers .... were there showers aboard and if so how often were these facilities available to each crewman. I imagine with 70 people aboard a relatively small vessel it would require a lot of water :)

Fresh water was obtained by distilling seawater. The US system was quite capable even then. In U-Boats the freshwater was exclusive for batteries and cooking. In US fleet boats, the distillers produced enough to permit crew showers in regular intervals. I suppose there may have been "shower times" with long lines, and of course you could not exactly shower like Janet Leigh in "Psycho". If there was trouble with the distillers, batteries came first, so no more showers...

Question 3.
allready answered.

[perisher]

American fleet boats had ice cream machines, an unheard of luxury in all other navies.

[Snowman999]

What sort of meals could be expected each day & how many times did crew eat daily ?
Usual meals are breakfast, dinner, supper, plus a midnight meal for the 0-4 watch ("pig's watch" in the german navy, how is its name in the USN?)


Mid-watch. Meal was mid-rats (from "ration"), served to on-going and off-coming watches from about 2300 to 0030. Often the left-overs from dinner and supper, plus soup.

Would have taken too much storage space. I am not sure wether the notorious "bug juice"; non sparkling soft drink made from artificially smelling syrup in serveral "flavors" (colours actually) was allready around in WW2.

Bug juice is a powder, not a syrup. Comes in brown paper envelopes about four inches square, with military specs stenciled on the wrapper. Mix with water, hide the tank-taste. I think it was invented in WWII, but not sure. Heavy on citric acid and Vitamin C for anti-scurvy. The flavors are real; orange tastes WAY different than red or green. Bug juice is a good drink, but a better cleaning product. The acid eats verdigris off bronze (tube doors) and stainless steel exposed to seawater (bowls in the head.)

[AirborneTD]

Reading Gene Fluckey's book, "Thunder Below" about the Barb. He got 20+ cases of beer on board and whenever they were about to engage the enemy, he would have 4 cases put in the cooler for the expected celebrations.

The cooks would also bake cakes whenever they had sinkings to celebrate. Complete with pictures (icing, etc) of the events.

[AntEater]

Well, the german variant of bug juice does come as syrup, but apart from that, the two are perfectly similar (NATO standard??).

Apart from that, generally speaking for all navies:
There is one person you should try to be friends with aboard, its the cook. On the other side, getting on the bad side of lets say the XO is just half as bad as getting on the bad side of the cook.... :D

[Convoystalker]

Thanks for the information friends :up:

The image links from mookiemookie are very interesting.
Seems the facilities are similar to a caravan or trailer home but serve almost 70 people .... the cooks must have been flat out preparing & cleaning.

From memories of the early 1950s it was possible to buy a variety of tinned food so I wonder if similar was available for military purposes during the war or were these luxuries ?

Examples.
Tinned Spam, Corned Beef.
Tinned peas, beans, carrots, potato, tomato, beetroot, sauerkraut.
Tinned fruit like peaches, pears, apricots, strawberries.

I wonder if it was a case of the supply officer obtaining whatever he could in port and the cook concocting whatever was possible on a daily basis. From a mass production standpoint it's simpler to make soup or stew rather than prepare individual portions of meat & vegetables for each person.

Just doing some rough math of the requirments for a patrol. 70 persons X 3 meals a day for 30-40 days then 70 showers at how many gallons of water allocated to each person ..... with extra for Janet Leigh off course ;)

Interesting to hear of ice cream machines !!! doesn't sound like Das Boot.
Also interesting to hear of salt water distillers .... must have solved a lot of problems.

Another issue ... smoking. Was it permitted ?

[Patboot]

Smoking? in an era when everyone smoked?

Yes- but only during times it was safe to do so- the "Smoking Lamp is Lit/Off" order. (you get a cookie when you can find the reason for the "lamp" refference)

Submerged, no- (obviously) and not while charging batteries, belowdecks- hydrogen gas is a byproduct of charging. On deck- at the OOD's discretion, and never in a combat area, unless deemed safe to do so. Probably more from the real vets, but you get the idea.

Oh and canned food? You bet- by the ton. Heard of C-rations? the " c" means canned ! The fresh/frozen storage wasn't all that big.

[TripleDaddy]

Smoking? in an era when everyone smoked?

Yes- but only during times it was safe to do so- the "Smoking Lamp is Lit/Off" order. (you get a cookie when you can find the reason for the "lamp" refference)

Submerged, no- (obviously) and not while charging batteries, belowdecks- hydrogen gas is a byproduct of charging. On deck- at the OOD's discretion, and never in a combat area, unless deemed safe to do so. Probably more from the real vets, but you get the idea.

Oh and canned food? You bet- by the ton. Heard of C-rations? the " c" means canned ! The fresh/frozen storage wasn't all that big.

Back in the day, smokers would literally use a designated lamp to light up. A big wooden ship powered by acres of canvas is something of a fire hazzard...

[AntEater]

It sometimes suprises me how different those times actually were regarding everything. Its just 60 years, and today's western civilization must seem reglemented like mandarin china to a WW2 soldier teleported to our age.
:damn:

Btw, what is the US Navy word for those crewmembers who don't stand watches?
Those guys that can sleep the whole night through? Like Cooks, Medics and such?
In german it is "Bauernnächtler" (literally "guys who sleep like peasants" - from sunrise to sunset). What is the USN or RN term?

[Snowman999]

Apart from that, generally speaking for all navies:
There is one person you should try to be friends with aboard, its the cook. On the other side, getting on the bad side of lets say the XO is just half as bad as getting on the bad side of the cook.... :D


When my father, a crusty old ex-CPO and LDO "mustang" officer, was driving me to the airport to go to OCS he gave me this sage advice: "Son, never piss off the man who pays you, the one who keeps your service record, or the one who cooks your eggs."

[Snowman999]

Yes- but only during times it was safe to do so- the "Smoking Lamp is Lit/Off" order. (you get a cookie when you can find the reason for the "lamp" refference)



Nit for the purists: The official 1MC word would be "The smoking lamp is LIGHTED throughout the ship" ("on weather decks", "abaft frame 48", etc.) Lighted is incorrect in modern English, but it's the way it was handed down from the 18th C. I doubt if any USN man-o-war does it this way any longer, but in WWII they did.

The other order, still used today, is "The smoking lamp is OUT throughout the ship." ("Until 2300 hours", "While refueling is underway", "While ammunition is being handled on the port side", etc.) But most often with no further explaination.

In wooden ships the smoking lamp was an actual lamp used to light pipes and cigarellos. Smoking was ONLY permitted in the galley for crew (gunroom for officers and CO's quarters for Himself.) Since the cook had a bad temper and sharp knives there wasn't any smoking during the work day while he was busy in the galley. But pretty much every man used tobacco, either chewed or smoked. It was thought to "adjust the humors" and promote good health in the Four Humor theory of physiology. Tobacco was second only to rum in importance to discipline. Sailors would put up with being pressed, flogged, "started" with a rope end, and scurvy, but the prudent CO would begin to look for anyplace to replenish rum and tobacco when they ran low.

[Snowman999]

Btw, what is the US Navy word for those crewmembers who don't stand watches?
Those guys that can sleep the whole night through? Like Cooks, Medics and such?
In german it is "Bauernnächtler" (literally "guys who sleep like peasants" - from sunrise to sunset). What is the USN or RN term?


I don't think there is a term. We just called them "non-watch standers." In sailing ships they were called "idlers", but that was an RN term and I think it's obsolete even there.

The cooks worked for me and I can tell you they worked harder than watchstanders. One port and one starboard duty cook, a day on and a day "off". The day on began at 0500 and ended at 2330 when the night baker took over. (He worked every day.) On the off day the duty cook helped with stores break-outs, record-keeping, training mess cranks, cleaning, etc. as well as all ship's drills, usually about 6-8 hours per day of those. The night baker worked his six, then stayed up all day drilling, cleaning, training, etc. Usually got 4-5 hours down in late afternnon and early evening. Baking was usually your best cook as it took a ballet-like performance to get mid-rats finished and cleaned up, then do all the baking and get out of the way in time to set up for breakfast. If you lost fifteen minutes for anything you were screwed. Bread only rises so fast.

[hardermob]

I was curious about similar questions a few days ago...here is what I remember from my research:

Tambor/Gato class subs had freezers with a 7 ton capacity plus a large 'cool' room for stuff like eggs and vegetables - enough to feed an 83 man crew for 90 days. Dry and canned food was stacked pretty much anywhere it could fit and be somewhat out of the way.

All the Tambor class subs and better had one shower everyone had to share.

All the Tambor class subs and better had air-conditioning! It was actually very important for comfort on long cruises cause one story of when it went out after a dc attack - the guy talked about it being very humid and cork residue being everywhere (cork was used on the walls to absorb condensation.) With the ac out the interior of the sub was much more humid and stuffy - near impossible to sleep well in those conditions near the equator in the Pacific.

One first hand account I read from a seaman about a Sea of Japan encounter where they got stuck in the sand at 280 feet included a detail just prior about him going to the mess and he was one of the few that got lunch that day due to depth charges starting (causing them to seek safety deep)... anyway, he said it was Mexican day and they were having burritoes and freoles or something like that plus a huge bowl of serve-yourself taco salad in the mess.

Doesn't sound too bad!

[XanderF]

When we toured 'Blueback' (a post-war 'Albacore'-hull type diesel), the showers were as follows:

- Cooks got one every day
- Rest of crew once a week
- Either way, it's a quickie 1-minute shower
- As with all diesel-electrics, batteries and cooking got priority, so if there was an issue with the distillers (common on pre-nukes, I understand), general crew showers were the first to go, then cooks last.
- Absolutely no water to wash clothes, anyway. So even with a shower, you are still putting on dirty clothes.

With the schnorkel-equipped boats, they would not surface at all when on patrol (just coming up to schnokel to recharge the batteries), so it was said it would get downright rank belowdecks after a very short time.

This is all, of course, very, very different on nuke boats.

[Mudrik]

Re Alcohol. I note that there is information about the USN being "dry". Recently I was in London with my wife and kids and we went to look around HMS Belfast. I wish I could quote you facts and figures but the amount of rum that was consumed on board that ship was mind blowing.

I think it was the early 70's that the rum ration was ceased but I get the feeling that for several hundred years the Royal Navy was lubricated with rum. Strange to think of these days.

[XanderF]

Not just the US Navy!

I can't think of any other Western nation that takes as conservative an approach to alcohol as the US does at all. I mean, aside from being the only country to add a 'Prohibition' amendment to its Constitution, to this day it's still frowned on. Liquor laws are quite strict in the country, and we have a very large number of 'dry counties' (counties where the sale or consumption of alcohol is still illegal). Drinking alcohol during the day is seriously frowned on, and most companies will fire you over alcohol consumption during your lunch break. (Yes, unpaid lunch break where you are not on the clock, you can still be fired for consuming any alcohol at all in most areas.)

[hardermob]

Not just the US Navy!

I can't think of any other Western nation that takes as conservative an approach to alcohol as the US does at all. I mean, aside from being the only country to add a 'Prohibition' amendment to its Constitution, to this day it's still frowned on. Liquor laws are quite strict in the country, and we have a very large number of 'dry counties' (counties where the sale or consumption of alcohol is still illegal). Drinking alcohol during the day is seriously frowned on, and most companies will fire you over alcohol consumption during your lunch break. (Yes, unpaid lunch break where you are not on the clock, you can still be fired for consuming any alcohol at all in most areas.)

Yep...and I have two words to say about it: Re Tarded

[hardermob]

Re Alcohol. I note that there is information about the USN being "dry". Recently I was in London with my wife and kids and we went to look around HMS Belfast. I wish I could quote you facts and figures but the amount of rum that was consumed on board that ship was mind blowing.

I think it was the early 70's that the rum ration was ceased but I get the feeling that for several hundred years the Royal Navy was lubricated with rum. Strange to think of these days.

Rum rations were a great centuries old tradition in the Royal Navy...

The modern U.S. navy isn't *totally* dry... I had a Navy roommate and was married to one of the first Navy gals to be stationed on an aircraft carrier. Long story short, beer is handed out, one per man/woman for any good celebration (like going around the southern tip of South America) ... but many don't drink and getting an extra beer isn't too hard. Woooo! a couple of beers! Wooooo! :doh:

And of course...off-ship the gloves are off!

[JALU3]

Re Alcohol. I note that there is information about the USN being "dry". Recently I was in London with my wife and kids and we went to look around HMS Belfast. I wish I could quote you facts and figures but the amount of rum that was consumed on board that ship was mind blowing.

I think it was the early 70's that the rum ration was ceased but I get the feeling that for several hundred years the Royal Navy was lubricated with rum. Strange to think of these days.

There is some truth to that . . . if you ever tuned to the History Channel and the HMS Victory . . . you'd realize that the crew was not a 100% voluntary force. Rather, sailors would sign a contract with the RN for a designated period . . . if that did not fill manpower needs they would inpress individuals of the street into service. They also did this to sailors, not officers, of other ships that were captured as trophies on the high seas . . . these included both Naval and Merchant Marine ships. This was one of the reasons behind the war of 1812, not the sole reason, but one of the reasons.

[hardermob]

Speaking of sub food... (1980's now)... I had the pleasure of a personal family relation tour of the USS Washington in the mid-eighties before it was de-commissioned. It was the first nuclear sub to be fitted with ballistic missile tubes (they cut her in half and stuck the tubes in the middle during the 60's.)

My stepdad's nephew gave us a tour all through the boat. One thing that really sticks out for me was the boxes and boxes and boxes of powdered eggs in the forward torpedo room and elsewhere on the ship. I asked him about that and he said that they did definitely eat a lot of powdered eggs, but not till the real eggs ran out (within the first few weeks of a cruise.) While we were there the galley was serving the skeleton crew lasagna and they offered us some. He also said they often got steak and lobster for dinner... the Navy isn't kidding when they say the submariners get the best chow.

It was an enormous treat to go on board a nuclear submarine in Bremerton, WA during the height of the tail end of the Cold War. I was a teenager and in awe.

[Weather-guesser]

Rum rations were a great centuries old tradition in the Royal Navy...

The modern U.S. navy isn't *totally* dry... I had a Navy roommate and was married to one of the first Navy gals to be stationed on an aircraft carrier. Long story short, beer is handed out, one per man/woman for any good celebration (like going around the southern tip of South America) ... but many don't drink and getting an extra beer isn't too hard. Woooo! a couple of beers! Wooooo!


Ah the Steel Beach Picnic still lives on! :rock:

[pocatellodave]

I served aboard the USS Kittyhawk CVA 63,and while off Viet Nam we had to observe periods of no showers,because the cats used a lot,and it was harder to make fresh water in that climate.Least thats what I was told.
The food on subs was excellent until you had been on patrol for a long time,then you started getting more dehydrated grub...yuck!
P.D.

[JALU3]

I have to ask . . . I understand that they had Pharmacist Mates (as Corpsman were called back then) . . . however, why didn't they carry a Physicians Assistant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician_assistant) as well? I can understand them not needing a full Doctor most of the time . . . however, the medical needs of your troops/sailors/marines/airmen/"guardies" is third only behind their fighting abilities and logistical support.

[pocatellodave]

I think the P.A. hasn't been around for very long.The Pharmicist Mate...Corpsman,were very able.I believe they were picked for their ability to handle most everything.The Navy simply didn't have the numbers to put a Dr. on every ship,matter of fact,and I'll need some help from U.S.Navy type fellows,I don't think Tin Cans even had a Dr. on board.The Navy also has to designate Dr.'s for the USMC,as they don't have any.I can tell you from experience that Corpsman are the real thing,from my experience with them while serving in the USMC.
Pocatellodave

[mookiemookie]

I think it was the early 70's that the rum ration was ceased but I get the feeling that for several hundred years the Royal Navy was lubricated with rum. Strange to think of these days.
Pusser's Rum, to be exact. I've had it before and it's a darn tasty drink. It's nothing like the sugary sweet Captain Morgan's stuff you can find everywhere. Specialty liquor stores may carry it...it's got a nice toasted caramel-y taste that's very nice to drink by itself over ice.

Here's the website with some history here: http://www.pussers.com/rum/

[JALU3]

I think the P.A. hasn't been around for very long.The Pharmicist Mate...Corpsman,were very able.I believe they were picked for their ability to handle most everything.The Navy simply didn't have the numbers to put a Dr. on every ship,matter of fact,and I'll need some help from U.S.Navy type fellows,I don't think Tin Cans even had a Dr. on board.The Navy also has to designate Dr.'s for the USMC,as they don't have any.I can tell you from experience that Corpsman are the real thing,from my experience with them while serving in the USMC.
Pocatellodave

Although having a high speed medic is always good for an infantry unit . . . there are just somethings that a medic/corpsman just aren't trained to do . . . but then again as I remember it, the things that a medic/corpsman can do on the inside, due to not having to have certain licensing, were far greater then what their written training was suppose to allow them to do.
I am also told that the training corpsman go through is far greater then what field medics have to go through, almost double as much, if what I am told is correct. I guess that is based on the fact that in the Army the ability transport back to a Battalion Aid Station or a CSH is alot easier then having a ship steam back to port, or to get marines off of a beach head, even now adays.

[LukeFF]

I am also told that the training corpsman go through is far greater then what field medics have to go through, almost double as much, if what I am told is correct. I guess that is based on the fact that in the Army the ability transport back to a Battalion Aid Station or a CSH is alot easier then having a ship steam back to port, or to get marines off of a beach head, even now adays.

My medic training for the Army back in 2003 was 16 weeks long and very thorough. I don't know about the other branches, but the training to me seemed very comprehensive, and from what I hear it's far more more so than the other branches.

[Snowman999]

My medic training for the Army back in 2003 was 16 weeks long and very thorough. I don't know about the other branches, but the training to me seemed very comprehensive, and from what I hear it's far more more so than the other branches.


In the 1980s my SSBN carried an independant-duty-rated Hospital Corpsman. An E-6 who had been a USMC medic as an E-5. He had about a year of extra training before sub duty. Was allowed to prescribe narcotics, do fairly major surgery (we had a chest pump that I know of), and was probably at least the training level of a US-market physician's assistant. Our blue crew had an E-8 doc. I think our E-6 was pretty rare.

I'm told that today the Ohio-class boats carry an MD once more. The SSBNs carried MDs for the first years of the program until baseline data was collected. At the time it was thought that the main challenge for boomer patrols would be psychological rather than physical ailments.

A WWII sub Phar. Mate was basically a USMC medic with a bit of extra training. (Certainly not a year's worth.) Trauma was his main concern, but there were also the normal shipboard calls for dermotological problems, heat exhaustion, etc.