Mei dier frändz in Tommyland...

[Skybird]

... do you see us Germans really that extreme like described in this (German language) essay? Is there really so much prejudice against us - or is the prejudice expressed in our assumptions on how you maybe think about us?And please, no serious debate here. Take all this with a a wide grin, if you please. http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,483490,00.htmlEin Leserbriefschreiber vertraute einer Website der BBC an: "Diese WM öffnet vielen die Augen, dass die Deutschen gar keine erbärmlichen, langweiligen Leute sind."Keine erbärmlichen, langweiligen Leute. Mehr Wohlwollen kann man als Kontinentaleuropäer von den Inselbewohnern schwer verlangen. Ein Reisebuch über Frankreich, das Engländer gern kaufen, bevor sie sich in den Hochgeschwindigkeitszug Richtung Paris setzen, heißt: "A Year in the Merde".

[Chock]

I wouldn't place too much store in The Sun newspaper as being representative of the entire British nation Skybird. While it does feature some very clever writing and some great sub-editing, it's also aimed at people with an average reading age of 13, so it's hardly the choice of the intellectual. Unfortunately, it is very often the choice of the great majority of 'readers' (using the term loosely here) in the UK.

Having been a sub-editor and newspaper writer in the past, from a purely professional standpoint, I always at least admired The Sun in terms of how it was well on target with its style as far as writing in such a way as to appeal to the market it was going for was done, even if I didn't actually agree with where it was coming from politically.

It's a fact that sub-editors and journalists on The Sun get paid more than their broadsheet (now Berliner format - note the irony) format newspapers, as to write in that bigotted 'Don't mention the war'-style does require a lot of clever word plays and jokey rhyming headlines, even if it does rely too much on worn out cliches. As a case in point, everyone remembers The Sun's headline from Tuesday May 4 1982 (GOTCHA) with regard to the sinking of the Argentinian battleship General Belgrano by HMS Conqueror, but you'll look a long way to find anyone who could tell you what The Times headline was for that story on the same day. It's the nature of newspapers.

Personally, I have a lot of German friends and do speak a little German (and I do mean a little), but I know that this probably puts me in a minority in England. And I do have a German Shepherd Dog too, if that offers you any consolation. Incidentally if you think it's bad in your country to have to put up with this kind of thing, you should try living here, where they never goddam shut up about the 1966 World Cup. It's really tragically embarassing that some people should have to hark back that far to find something to cling to.

I for one will quite happily meet you in no-man's land for a friendly game of footy. That WW1 footy game on the battlefield between 'Tommy and Fritz' - when there was some true comradely friendship shown between the UK and Germany - was far more worthy of remembering than the one in 1966, and I don't even know who won that one.

Besides, you do make better cars than us and my wife won't drive anything that doesn't have a Mercedes-Benz badge on the front.

Chock :D

[MaxT.dk]

If I could read German...

We, Russians (yes, I'm Russian), hate Germans by our nature... It's just all that propaganda from when we were young (who would like the facts they Germans made a Piece "contract" with us and later on they've cowardly attacked us killing 26.5 million of Russians?).

On the other side, I have 4 very good German friends. With one of them I've been very close (yes, it was a female) and I still remember her... And I drive a german car...

I guess it'll take generations (specially for Russians) to forget WW2 and what was done... Personally I think it will take VERY long time before it's forgotten...

[Skybird]

And please, no serious debate here. Take all this with a wide grin, if you please.
.....

[MaxT.dk]

If we had something to talk about... You made a post where you ask people to make some conclusions and remarks about an article in German... DOH! :roll:

I guess that's why people talk about what they think you wanted to hear and how they feel... :hmm:

[CCIP]

We, Russians (yes, I'm Russian), hate Germans by our nature... It's just all that propaganda from when we were young (who would like the facts they Germans made a Piece "contract" with us and later on they've cowardly attacked us killing 26.5 million of Russians?).


:o:o:o

I assure you, this is the first I heard of this.
I was born and raised in Russia, and despite obvious hatred of the Nazi german war effort, I never had the slightest bit of dislike towards Germans, and in fact have always been a bit of a Germanophile.

Sorry, but I hope you're wrong. At least where I'm from (St. Petersburg, from an intelligentsia background) there is no ill feeling towards Germany or Germans generally whatsoever.

[AntEater]

1. regarding russians: I always noted how official histories always called their opponents in WW2 "fascist" or "fascist german" but never just "german".
I never met anyone outright anti-german from the ex USSR, not even jews from there.
In some ways, germans and russians have less problems with each other than, lets say germans and poles (even there its mostly the polish government doing the bitching, not the people) or russians and poles.

2. regarding british:
The whole jerryphobia surely is annoying and way out of proportion for british humour.
Somehow, Germany is some kind of a scapegoat.
The brits (or better, their tabloid press) simply take every vile aspect the brits have and put it down as typically german. This works so well because brits and germans are so similar in many aspects. Like a strange cousin you can ridicule without noticing that he is just like you.
One the other hand, brits tend to be quite xenophobic, even in foreign countries.
When I lived in the dorm, the only brits that regularly joined non british parties actually Nigerians who lived in Britain.
I more than once went to a dorm party (in Germany) only to be told "british only". Me and my friends (a mix of germans, greeks, russians and other ex USSR folk) usually gained entrance and the respect of those brits by beating the crap out of one or two of them.
:rotfl:
Was fun, really.

[CCIP]

The whole jerryphobia surely is annoying and way out of proportion for british humour.
Somehow, Germany is some kind of a scapegoat.
Sort of reminds me of the good old American "Blame Canada!" (and vice versa - "Blame the States", of course) :p

[Skybird]

Well, I had several good laughs when rewading that article, it is written in a laconic tone, and I do not think that tabloids like the Sun represents all what Britains think of Germans. So - knowing that quite some people here speak sometimes more, sometimes less German, I linked it, as kind of a joke. However, there is some truth in it, where it says: "Nazis are sexy, evil has it's own kind of attraction." The fascination of the danger one has survived - will stick to the Germans for quite some more time, I think. Also the envy for the Wirtschaftswunder, which, so the article, made the British asking: "Who has won the war anyway?" :lol:

If you understand it (German), read it and smile. It does not get eaten as hot as it was cooked.

:-j

Concenring the Russian issue (which has no room in this thread anyway), we have plenty of Russians in Germany, and I by far cannot say that the older ones show a special hostility towards Germans, while the younger ones often are a bit shy and tend to try to stay with their likes. But all in all, the usual guys and the older ones are different to German's standard mentality and behavior, and are more friendly and more "zurückhaltend" (guarded?), which I often experience to be a more pleasant, agreeable way of behaving than what many Germans are showing in behavior. It reminfds me a bit of what could be called "good old school", which I mean as a compliment.

Except Russian "nouveau riches", whose arrogance really make them a plague. But that is not different with nouveau riches of other nationalities as well.

[Chock]

That's the Dilemma that many face in the UK, for years they'e had it subconciously rammed down their throats about 'those nasty Germans' and then they look at all the cool stuff in comparison to the British equipment and think 'well, yeah, but actually, that German Nazi gear looks really cool.' :rotfl:

I mean a Spitfire is all very nice and it sounds great, but a JU-87 Stuka looks like it's going to kick your teeth in and it sounds like it's gonna do it too with that dive-bombing siren on the undercarriage. So there's a fascination with all that stuff.

I think this sums it up pretty well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oU_Cz8b2sM

Yes they're taking the mickey, but it's amazing how keen actors are to get into a WW2 German uniform.

:D Chock