The Lazarus Project; or, getting old ain't for sissies!

[Onkel Neal]

Well, for a diversion, I have decided to pull my old 1995 Pentium 100 with Win95 out of the closet and thrust it back into action, playing Aces of the Deep, Silent Steel, Wolfpack, Silent Hunter I, and other pre-millenium subsims.

It has not been turned on in over 3 years, so of course when I plugged it in, it won't run. First, it tells me there is a 127 System Board Error
then it goes to the Set-up Utility menu and there are three other errors waiting:

161 Bad CMOS Battery (how could it be naughty, it's been asleep 3 years?)
163 Date and Timer Incorrect
1762 Configuration Change has occurred

Ok, so if I exit the setup utility, I get a black screen with a simple white diagram of a floppy poised to enter a drive, with an insistent flashing error suggesting I press F1. Now, I have seen this before, I think it meant the old fella cannot access the hard drive or the Win95 OS. Probably forgot where it put it...

So, I suppose I need a new CMOS battery, and I better check the hard drive connections. Tomorrow I will start Googling, but in the meantime, I was wondering about your experiences with something like this. A really old PC, being rudely jerked out of its blissful slumbers...

Neal

[donut]

161 Bad CMOS Battery (how could it be naughty, it's been asleep 3 years?)Dead !
Replace It's in a coma
163 Date and Timer Incorrect-F1,it wants you to enter BIOS,set date/time. New battery,should activate memory,allowing a sys restore,or sys recovery.
1762 Configuration Change has occurred-restore-unknown how except suggestion above. Keep that boat afloat.LOL

[STEED]

Neal I just booted up my old Compaq Win95 and it's smooth as a baby's bot. No problems with it. ;)

[fatty]

Replacing the battery should fix all of those first few errors. I had to do this a few years ago. Write down all the info on the battery and I think you can still get them at Radio Shack or whatever your electronics store of choice is. Mine was a bit of a B to remove and replace so you may be in for a struggle.

You may want to try the above first before tackling the second problem as it will cure your computer's Alzheimers, as you know. After you do the usual connection checks, go to the BIOS and check all the stuff there, namely that you are booting from HDD. Beyond that, post back with any discoveries or progress you make!

[MadMike]

I usually see a lot of old systems at places like Salvation Army and Waterfront Mission, Goodwill, etc. Great places to find old National Geographic maps, books, furniture, etc.

Yours, Mike

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, status update: I pulled the PS so I could get at the motherboard battery. It was still a struggle, but I got it out. I went to Circuit City and had the Joe grab a new one. Got home, put it in... it was too thin and the little clip did not press it down properly :dead: So I will go back tomorrow and ask for a "thicker" one. Alas.

[Iceman]

You can get those batterys from any drug store too...popping those batterys out was the way to get around someone who has passworded the boot sequence...btw some of those cmos batterys were never made to be removed...:o the best part about messing with that computer is ya can't really go wrong now can ya :)...if the clip wont sit it securely insert a few small layers of tin foil to make contact

[Onkel Neal]

You can get those batterys from any drug store too...popping those batterys out was the way to get around someone who has passworded the boot sequence...btw some of those cmos batterys were never made to be removed...:o the best part about messing with that computer is ya can't really go wrong now can ya :)...if the clip wont sit it securely insert a few small layers of tin foil to make contact

Good idea about the tinfoil, I'll try it. thanks

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, got another battery, a thicker one that happened to match the same part number as the old one :doh:

Now, when the PC is turned on, it take about 30 seconds before the monitor kicks in, and then it only displays the two lines of text describing the video card, it does not even go forward to the POST or IBM setup utility screen.... :shifty:

[Onkel Neal]

Oh boy, something is happening... after rebooting about 30 times, it now goes to the IBM POST screen and the Ram counts up, but reeeeeeeaaaly slowly. When it gets to 97MB of Ram, nothing happens and F1 won't take it to the setup utility.

I am thinking I may try plugging in another hard drive and see what happens. Or it may be time to build a new Olde PC. Parts should be cheap :) I need a Pentium 133 and MB, a 64MB ram chip, and a Soundblaster 16 ISA card.:hmm:

[fatty]

Hmmmm. Perhaps time to start swapping out components to test for defective hardware.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I think you are right, will go by a computer shop tomorrow and see if I can find an old, cheap hard drive.

[Winston]

Hay there Neal, have you tried dosbox or any of the other dos emulators? With a bit of tweaking they can be set up to run most games. I regularly play a few games from the past. Just the other day I had Eye of the Beholder running, sure beats the pants off a lot of modern rpg’s.

Anyway, is does not sound like a HD problem. Seems to be having trouble with ram. You could try to disconnect the hard disk completely just to see if it makes a difference and to see how far it gets in the boot sequence.

[FIREWALL]

Solution to your problem "Onkel Neal" ?


Find a large ROUND file and store it there. Use that extra new closet space for something good like PRIZES for new contests.:D :D :D

[Oberon]

Ever thought of using one of these Neal?

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/er-defib.jpg

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Love the idea though, I think there might be an old computer gathering dust in the attic somewhere...maybe some day I'll switch it on and see what happens....with the fire brigade on speed-dial of course :smug:

[kiwi_2005]

Anyway, is does not sound like a HD problem. Seems to be having trouble with ram. You could try to disconnect the hard disk completely just to see if it makes a difference and to see how far it gets in the boot sequence.

I think winston hit it on the head, usually the hardware gremlin is Ram :damn:

Even with modern PC's faulty ram causes headaches!

[Onkel Neal]

Oh, boy. Better than ever. Ok, no luck with the old IBM. So, today as I was driving to the Bar-B-Que joint for lunch, I saw a little electronic repair shop, hiding between a hair salon and a pet food store...

... I felt a pull in the Force... and I veered into the parking lot. I went in and this place was piled high with TVs. There was just this narrow little path to the counter. In the back was this fellow and he came to the front when he saw me. I asked him if he had any old computers, by chance. He said, no, not really. I said I was looking for an older computer. He said, well, he had one in the back, but it was really old.

He brought out a Compaq 4504. I asked if it worked and he said it did, so I told him to get a monitor and power cord and let's have a look. As we were plugging it in he said he was pretty sure it was at least a Pentium 200 mhz with Win 98. Now that it appeared I might buy an old junker, he was still trying to keep me interested.

I said, "Windows 98? Awe, I was hoping for one with Windows 95."

He arched an eyebrow and couldn't resist. "Why do you want such an old computer?"

I leaned forward, locked eyes, and after a pause told him, "Research. Let's leave it at that."

The PC powered up, and by golly, it was Win95! Pentium 200. I checked the sound card, ES1887, no Soundblaster Live :yep:

Memory? A whopping 16MB, yes, that's MEGAbytes. Kneel before me:arrgh!:

Aww, yeh-ah. Threw $40 at the man and sped home. Hooked it up, loaded Command Aces of the Deep, and we're in business. :rock:

So, next up, Wolfpack!

[ReallyDedPoet]

Well, for a diversion, I have decided to pull my old 1995 Pentium 100 with Win95 out of the closet and thrust it back into action, playing Aces of the Deep, Silent Steel, Wolfpack, Silent Hunter I, and other pre-millenium subsims.


Nice stuff there:roll: Have fun, remember playing Fast Attack on a Pentium 166, 16 megs of Ram:o

RDP

[ASWnut101]

Oh, boy. Better than ever. Ok, no luck with the old IBM. So, today as I was driving to the Bar-B-Que joint for lunch, I saw a little electronic repair shop, hiding between a hair salon and a pet food store...

... I felt a pull in the Force... and I veered into the parking lot. I went in and this place was piled high with TVs. There was just this narrow little path to the counter. In the back was this fellow and he came to the front when he saw me. I asked him if he had any old computers, by chance. He said, no, not really. I said I was looking for an older computer. He said, well, he had one in the back, but it was really old.

He brought out a Compaq 4504. I asked if it worked and he said it did, so I told him to get a monitor and power cord and let's have a look. As we were plugging it in he said he was pretty sure it was at least a Pentium 200 mhz with Win 98. Now that it appeared I might buy an old junker, he was still trying to keep me interested.

I said, "Windows 98? Awe, I was hoping for one with Windows 95."

He arched an eyebrow and couldn't resist. "Why do you want such an old computer?"

I leaned forward, locked eyes, and after a pause told him, "Research. Let's leave it at that."

The PC powered up, and by golly, it was Win95! Pentium 200. I checked the sound card, ES1887, no Soundblaster Live :yep:

Memory? A whopping 16MB, yes, that's MEGAbytes. Kneel before me:arrgh!:

Aww, yeh-ah. Threw $40 at the man and sped home. Hooked it up, loaded Command Aces of the Deep, and we're in business. :rock:

So, next up, Wolfpack!

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Ha! You cheated though!:cry: You still should build up your other computer, link the two CPU's together, and power galore! (or maby fried hunks of silicon galore!). I had my insparation in you, and you gave up! (I am planning on building my own computer for the first time, once I make my move to Atlanta) :cry: :cry:

[geetrue]

So, you couldn't wait for patch 1.3 ... :lol:
now you've got me interested in an old PII 400 for SH 1 ... :yep:

[donut]

Good find Onkel,return to base @ your discretion. Get UBI to communicate it's in there best interest.:know:

[Tchocky]

Fond memories of my Pentium 150Mhz, ahhh

T'was a good machine, with all you could desire. Sort of

May keep my 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo though :)

[SUBMAN1]

Well, for a diversion, I have decided to pull my old 1995 Pentium 100 with Win95 out of the closet and thrust it back into action, playing Aces of the Deep, Silent Steel, Wolfpack, Silent Hunter I, and other pre-millenium subsims.

It has not been turned on in over 3 years, so of course when I plugged it in, it won't run. First, it tells me there is a 127 System Board Error
then it goes to the Set-up Utility menu and there are three other errors waiting:

161 Bad CMOS Battery (how could it be naughty, it's been asleep 3 years?)
163 Date and Timer Incorrect
1762 Configuration Change has occurred

Ok, so if I exit the setup utility, I get a black screen with a simple white diagram of a floppy poised to enter a drive, with an insistent flashing error suggesting I press F1. Now, I have seen this before, I think it meant the old fella cannot access the hard drive or the Win95 OS. Probably forgot where it put it...

So, I suppose I need a new CMOS battery, and I better check the hard drive connections. Tomorrow I will start Googling, but in the meantime, I was wondering about your experiences with something like this. A really old PC, being rudely jerked out of its blissful slumbers...

Neal
AHh...You don't even have an old Pentium 2 or 3 sitting around that could play this game (Thinking from a responsiveness side more than a speed side)??? I seem to keep all this old stuff. My oldest working system is a PIII 700, but if you dig in my box of old forgotten parts, you would find a ton of old CPU's. Digging in here, I see 3x PII 400's, 1x PIII 450, 1x PIII 600, 1x Celeron 366, and 1x unknown Pentium hidden under a fan I don't feel like prying off! Seems to be a couple GB of old forgotten RAM in here too.

Hahaha! I found a Voodoo 1 card! Orchid!

-S

[Onkel Neal]

Ha! You cheated though! You still should build up your other computer, link the two CPU's together, and power galore! (or maby fried hunks of silicon galore!). I had my insparation in you, and you gave up! (I am planning on building my own computer for the first time, once I make my move to Atlanta) :cry: :cry:

Yes, I certainly took the easy way out :) But I still plan to keep working on the Aptiva IBM, I wanna see what goodies I left on those two hard drives.

Tonight! Seawolf SSN-21 ! Man, does that bring back memories... I had to make a boot disk just like the old days to config the EMS memory to get it to run. But that's all it took. Restart with the boot disk, naviagte with DOS prompts, and bingo--moody synth music, crew voices, smoking hot 256 colors. I remember you could not go any faster than half speed with the Towed Array deployed, and if you armed a torp, you had to fire it within 8 minutes or the nav battery would run down and you had to reload. Great game!

Tomorrow night: Silent Service II :yep:

[Skybird]

If you need the discs for Red Storm Rising, I think I have the Amiga version somewhere - but no more Amiga. That one i played a lot.

[Onkel Neal]

Tonight, I brought Wolfpack back to life (no sound, though :(). Anyone here ever play Novalogic's Wolfpack?

I'm picking up a Soundblaster 16 card off ebay, will try to see if that will rememdy the sound woes.

[Wim Libaers]

Oh, boy. Better than ever. Ok, no luck with the old IBM. So, today as I was driving to the Bar-B-Que joint for lunch, I saw a little electronic repair shop, hiding between a hair salon and a pet food store...

... I felt a pull in the Force... and I veered into the parking lot. I went in and this place was piled high with TVs. There was just this narrow little path to the counter. In the back was this fellow and he came to the front when he saw me. I asked him if he had any old computers, by chance. He said, no, not really. I said I was looking for an older computer. He said, well, he had one in the back, but it was really old.

He brought out a Compaq 4504. I asked if it worked and he said it did, so I told him to get a monitor and power cord and let's have a look. As we were plugging it in he said he was pretty sure it was at least a Pentium 200 mhz with Win 98. Now that it appeared I might buy an old junker, he was still trying to keep me interested.

I said, "Windows 98? Awe, I was hoping for one with Windows 95."

He arched an eyebrow and couldn't resist. "Why do you want such an old computer?"

I leaned forward, locked eyes, and after a pause told him, "Research. Let's leave it at that."

The PC powered up, and by golly, it was Win95! Pentium 200. I checked the sound card, ES1887, no Soundblaster Live :yep:

Memory? A whopping 16MB, yes, that's MEGAbytes. Kneel before me:arrgh!:

Aww, yeh-ah. Threw $40 at the man and sped home. Hooked it up, loaded Command Aces of the Deep, and we're in business. :rock:

So, next up, Wolfpack!

But if you're considering Subwar 2050, this one will be too fast ;-)

For the other PC, perhaps some connectors have corroded or moved a bit. Disasembling and reassembling everything might help. Also check for signs of damage or leaks on capacitors.

[ChristopherT]

Tonight, I brought Wolfpack back to life (no sound, though :(). Anyone here ever play Novalogic's Wolfpack?

I'm picking up a Soundblaster 16 card off ebay, will try to see if that will rememdy the sound woes.

I've got Wolfpack Neal, but I used that on my old IBM XT clone (20mb HD!). I don't think I've ever gotten to work on my current system. (P2 Celeron, 300 mhz, Win98, 4gb HD.) I think I'll try it tonight and see what happens. I got SSN21 to run fine in Win98 without a boot disk, I'm curious as to how the DOS side of your Win95 machine might be configured.

Christopher

Edit: I got Wolfpack to play okay under Win98, but it's a tad fast for a good game.

[Onkel Neal]

Tonight, I brought Wolfpack back to life (no sound, though :(). Anyone here ever play Novalogic's Wolfpack?

I'm picking up a Soundblaster 16 card off ebay, will try to see if that will rememdy the sound woes.

I've got Wolfpack Neal, but I used that on my old IBM XT clone (20mb HD!). I don't think I've ever gotten to work on my current system. (P2 Celeron, 300 mhz, Win98, 4gb HD.) I think I'll try it tonight and see what happens. I got SSN21 to run fine in Win98 without a boot disk, I'm curious as to how the DOS side of your Win95 machine might be configured.



I'll have to look at the stock autoexec and config files but I think it says NO EMS or something.

Update: I loaded Grey Wolf: Hunter of the North Atlantic and played a couple missions, then Silent Hunter I. The intro movie does not work but the game plays great!

Then I got fancy and installed Fast Attack. The intro movie for this one plays, but then the screen goes black.... and no game :( So, the lucky run comes to an end, I'll have to roll up my sleeves and see what I need to do to get FA working.

Let's review, so far the SUBSIM Legacy machine has:

Command Aces of the Deep (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/commandaces.html)
Seawolf SSN-21 (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/seawolf.html)
Wolfpack (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/wolfpack.html)
Silent Service II (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/service2.html)
Greywolf (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/greywolf.html)
Silent Hunter (http://www.subsim.com/silenthunt.html)

I have to get Fast Attack working then I'll tackle Great Naval Battles, Clancy's SSN, Das Boot, Silent Steel, and Fighting Steel. My goal is to have the most pre-2000 naval and subsims running on one machine in the world.:|\\

Neal

[ChristopherT]

I'll have to look at the stock autoexec and config files but I think it says NO EMS or something.

Update: I loaded Grey Wolf: Hunter of the North Atlantic and played a couple missions, then Silent Hunter I. The intro movie does not work but the game plays great!

Then I got fancy and installed Fast Attack. The intro movie for this one plays, but then the screen goes black.... and no game :( So, the lucky run comes to an end, I'll have to roll up my sleeves and see what I need to do to get FA working.

Let's review, so far the SUBSIM Legacy machine has:

Command Aces of the Deep (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/commandaces.html)
Seawolf SSN-21 (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/seawolf.html)
Wolfpack (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/wolfpack.html)
Silent Service II (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/service2.html)
Greywolf (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/greywolf.html)
Silent Hunter (http://www.subsim.com/silenthunt.html)

I have to get Fast Attack working then I'll tackle Great Naval Battles, Clancy's SSN, Das Boot, Silent Steel, and Fighting Steel. My goal is to have the most pre-2000 naval and subsims running on one machine in the world.:|\\

Neal

The only ones on that list I don't have are Clancy's SSN and Silent Steel. All the GNB's, Das Boot, Silent Hunter, Greywolf, and Fighting Steel work fine under Win98. For SS2 make sure your sound card has an Adlib chip on-board. My machine lacks that hardware so SS2 uses the PC speaker. (My XT did have a SB card with an Adlib chip on it and the sound was very good.)

Christopher

[Hitman]

Great memories!:rock:

I kept my first laptop computer purposedly to run the older games. It is a Celeron 366 (Pentium III era) with 64MB RAM and a 4MB SVGA video card (No 3D capabilities:cry: ). OS is Windows 98SE. One of the best things it has is the small size, only a 12,5 inch screen, but it has a vga output so I can connect it to any monitor.

Installed on it and running flawlessly are:

-Command Aces of the Deep
-Silent Hunter 1 CE
-Great Naval Battles IV and V
-Panzer General II
-Pacific General

I heartly recommend anyone this way of keeping old classics alive: An old laptop is the best space-saver and since you don't need to update the hardware, you can pick the one that just meets your requirements. Should be lots out there to buy second hand for incredibly low prices:up:

[Major Johnson]

Neal, did you try reseating the memory on your old machine?? Maybe even replace it?? That might speed things up a bit. Also you might want to try to up the RAM a bit anyway. Can never have too much!

I have an old Compaq 1780. P100. Came with 95 but I loaded 98 on it. Being in the computer field I happen to have access to a lot of spare parts and in my travels I've picked up a lot of simms and I maxed it out. It was my Dad's and I keep for sentimental reasons. I actually got it back from someone I had sold it to like 10 years ago! My mom thinks I'm crazy. Anyway, it was the only computer that would play this old flight sim called Dawn Patrol that I spent hours on back in the day. Seems that the onboard video was one of the few compatible with the game. It is a labor of love though. :) I got it up and working about a year ago was able to load the game but there was no sound. I haven't started it up since. Saving it for a rainy day, or maybe retirement!! :lol:

[Onkel Neal]

Great memories!:rock:

I kept my first laptop computer purposedly to run the older games. It is a Celeron 366 (Pentium III era) with 64MB RAM and a 4MB SVGA video card (No 3D capabilities:cry: ). OS is Windows 98SE. One of the best things it has is the small size, only a 12,5 inch screen, but it has a vga output so I can connect it to any monitor.

Installed on it and running flawlessly are:

-Command Aces of the Deep
-Silent Hunter 1 CE
-Great Naval Battles IV and V
-Panzer General II
-Pacific General

I heartly recommend anyone this way of keeping old classics alive: An old laptop is the best space-saver and since you don't need to update the hardware, you can pick the one that just meets your requirements. Should be lots out there to buy second hand for incredibly low prices:up:

Very good idea, laptops can be stowed making them very portable :yep:
I guess I have been ingrained with the concept that laptops do not make good gaming machines, but that has changed, especially for running retro subsims.

Ultimately, my secret project will end up like this. (http://www.mameworld.net/massive/Cabinet/Defender/defender.htm) Right now I am concentrating on the game installation and config, but when I run out of old subsims to add and have them all running, I'll start Phase Two. I can't think of a better piece of furniture than a Subsim arcade machine standing in the corner of my office :D

http://www.subsim.com/graphics/1_1can1.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Neal, did you try reseating the memory on your old machine?? Maybe even replace it?? That might speed things up a bit. Also you might want to try to up the RAM a bit anyway. Can never have too much!

I got it up and working about a year ago was able to load the game but there was no sound. I haven't started it up since. Saving it for a rainy day, or maybe retirement!! :lol:

As you know, from my example, you should fire it up every few months at least. I have ordered a 32MB ram chip for it from a PC company ($9.95), and a couple of old soundcards off e-bay ($14 and $3). I'll mess around with it for a few months, seeing what combination works best.

Cheers!
Neal

[ChristopherT]

Ultimately, my secret project will end up like this. (http://www.mameworld.net/massive/Cabinet/Defender/defender.htm) Right now I am concentrating on the game installation and config, but when I run out of old subsims to add and have them all running, I'll start Phase Two. I can't think of a better piece of furniture than a Subsim arcade machine standing in the corner of my office :D


How about a working 1968 Midway Sea Raider coin-operated submarine arcade game? That would definately be a close second to your project! :D

Christopher

[Bubblehead Nuke]

If you need the discs for Red Storm Rising, I think I have the Amiga version somewhere - but no more Amiga. That one i played a lot.

If you have the workbench disks, you can get WinUAE (windows Amiga Emulator) and play those old Amiga games. That is what I do here. I play my old amiga version of Red Storm Rising, and Silent Service on my PC with that. They have WAY better sound and graphics compared to their PC versions of the same era.

Speaking of emulators, why try and resurrect all these old machines? I understand the technical challenge, but if you are looking for the older OS's for a compatibility issue just get Virtual PC from Microsoft (free download) and install the older operating system and play from that. I have Tom Clancy's 688I and it will not play on ANYTHING but Windows 95. I have a small install of Windows 95 (only 80 megs virtual hard drive) just to play that ONE game.

[Onkel Neal]

Ultimately, my secret project will end up like this. (http://www.mameworld.net/massive/Cabinet/Defender/defender.htm) Right now I am concentrating on the game installation and config, but when I run out of old subsims to add and have them all running, I'll start Phase Two. I can't think of a better piece of furniture than a Subsim arcade machine standing in the corner of my office :D


How about a working 1968 Midway Sea Raider coin-operated submarine arcade game? That would definately be a close second to your project! :D

Christopher

Yeah! If I can find one. If not, I could replicate the cabinet for my project.:hmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Hey, I just noticed the game images on this page (http://www.marvin3m.com/arcade/searaid.htm) seem to be the exact arcade game I played when I was a kid. Of all the arcade machines, this was my favorite. It was electro-mechanical, I really liked it.

http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/searaid6.jpg

[MarkShot]

Just curious ... with the ease of use of DOSBOX why people prefer to build and maintain entirely separate machines for old games?

I currently have: AOD, SHCE, RTD, RT1, and BRD running under DOSBOX 0.70 with very new hardware using a secondary 20" CRT which is mainly used for running low res old games. Aside from the simplicity of only having a single system to deal with, you get all the benefits of Window's game play (ie: read email while patrolling) that isn't really available under true DOS. Also, getting the right number of CPU cycles is much easier under DOSBOX, since you can just adjust this by hand. On a multi-core machine with multiple monitors, you can even play multiple games at the same time on different displays with different processors such that they don't even interfere with each other.

Just curious what's the atraction of PC time machines from the 1980's? Thanks.

[Hitman]

Well the CAOD version (Win 95) will not play under DOSBOX, and the increase in resolution (640x480) pays off when you play for some hours, as the DOS version's low res gets annoying and tyring for the eyes quicker. As for SH1, I get it to run well in DOSBOX, but never so fast at time compression as in an older Win98 system. 2048x constantly kicks back to lower levels, and when you have little time to play like me, that is something to consider.

Plus the laptop I have is a very small item, takes almost nil space and is portable:up:

[MarkShot]

Well, here is what I am doing with my old games to get them large (easy on the eyes) with a good refresh.

I have a 21.3" LCD at 1600x1200 and 20" CRT (can run any resolution) hooked up to a NVidia 8800GTX.

I use a multi-monitor utility, ULTRAMON, to preconfigure my DOS games. So, I launch AOD on the CRT in a Window. It is set to run in a 700x400 resolution Window. Then, the monitor is set to display at 720x480/85Hz. This makes AOD practically fill the screen of the CRT. And this is what I do with most my DOS games; I use the CRT to stretch the size of the small game Window by running in a low resolution mode. Works like a charm!

See attached config for AOD [DOS]:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/AODCRT.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Just curious ... with the ease of use of DOSBOX why people prefer to build and maintain entirely separate machines for old games?

I currently have: AOD, SHCE, RTD, RT1, and BRD running under DOSBOX 0.70 with very new hardware using a secondary 20" CRT which is mainly used for running low res old games. Aside from the simplicity of only having a single system to deal with, you get all the benefits of Window's game play (ie: read email while patrolling) that isn't really available under true DOS. Also, getting the right number of CPU cycles is much easier under DOSBOX, since you can just adjust this by hand. On a multi-core machine with multiple monitors, you can even play multiple games at the same time on different displays with different processors such that they don't even interfere with each other.

Just curious what's the atraction of PC time machines from the 1980's? Thanks.

Lol, I have nothing against DOSBOX at all, I just can't figure it out :lol:

Seriously, you have a good point, Mark. I needed a Win95 machine to get CAOD running, like Hitman said, plus I plan to build this as a project arcade machine, with all the subsims I can make work. I like the nostalgia, seeing all the old stuff on an old machine. Also, part of the attraction is have a disposable PC (less than $50) so I am not monkeying around with my main workstation.

Have you thought about writing a DOSBOX tutorial for each of the games you listed? Man, that would be great and I would be proud to make it a main feature at Subsim, plus send you some goodies :yep:

cheers
Neal

[MarkShot]

Neil,

Regarding CAOD and Win95/98, I would run either Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 or 2007 (free download) under XP or Vista. Effectively, you can then have a 95 or 98 virtual machine running under XP or Vista upon which you can install CAOD. You can share files between the virtual machine and the host. So, you can have easy access to the games installed outside of the virtual machine. Additionally, a virtual machine can be unloaded and reloaded as it exists in memory. So, if you recall AOD does not allow you to save a game in the heat of battle, but with Virtual PC, you can do exactly that save.

It is said that Virtual PC will only run on XP Pro, but I heard that you can ignore the warnings during install and still get it to work on XP Home. However, I have XP Pro ... so, I wouldn't know for sure.

Neil, regarding your offer to write a tutorial, I will consider it. However, at the moment, I am in poor health and don't see myself volunteering for anything. Although I do agree that a general guide to playing older subsims (on newer hardware) would be a valuable addition to the site. Especially, since many of those who would like to play the older games tend to be the less technical among the community. Myself, I am 48, but systems is my profession. So, this stuff comes easy.

[MarkShot]

Neil,

Here are some sample pictures of my configuration running some old classics: Aces of the Deep, Silent Hunter Commander's Edition, and Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon Deluxe. You'll notice that it is very easy on my old eyes and very ergonomic. For me, despite having lots of desk space this seems a much more workable approach than maintaining a dedicated time machine. By the way, the two monitor approach works nice for newer games like Sub Command too.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp1.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp2.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp3.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp4.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp5.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/samp6.jpg

[MarkShot]

Sorry for the blurred images. I am not much of a photographer. :)

But you get the idea.

Despite recently just getting started with SH3/GWX/NYGM/RUB/WAC ... I intend to be playing those classics and others for another 10 years or more.

[Hitman]

Mark, a screenshot through CTLR+IMPRPNT of the 20' CRT would give a better idea of the quality. The pictures give anyway a good show of what you are doing, great solution. As Neal (Don't call him Neil, he hates it;) ) says, however, a part of the fun is in fact seeing an old computer, brings back good memories :up:

Can you run well high TCs in SH1 under DOSBOX?:hmm:

Regarding CAOD, a good trick to have it look great was to set the desktop res exactly double (1280x960) the size as the CAOD window (640x480), then making it go full screen. It stretches perfectly and looks very well:up: .

[MarkShot]

Sorry, Neal. I suppose can write name as "Marc" then. :)

[MarkShot]

High TCs are no problem at all.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

It is said that Virtual PC will only run on XP Pro, but I heard that you can ignore the warnings during install and still get it to work on XP Home. However, I have XP Pro ... so, I wouldn't know for sure.


That would be correct sir. I am running XP Home and I have a fully working Virtual PC 2007 on my machine.

I have DOS 6.22, Windows 95, and Windows 98 virtual machines. What is most amazing is that you can run all THREE of these at the same time on a 1 gig XP machine and still have better performance than they had on the old legacy hardware.

[Onkel Neal]

ok, Mark and BBhead, now I'm intrigued :hmm:

I'll have to look into that. I'm sorry about your health, Mark, I appreciate the interest but look after yourself first. I may start on one DOSBOX/Virual thing tutorial myself, for Fast Attack (which I still can not get to work on the Subsim Retro Machine :damn: ). Once I get one complete, I may ask for volunteers for some other tutorials. It would be a GREAT way to introduce new subsim skippers to the classic and let then see how far we've come, as well as appreciate the great work by Dynamix, AEON, Ratcliff and Grace, John Garcia, Kim Boscoe, and all.


688 ATTACK SUB
http://www.subsim.com/graphics/1_1can1.gif


SUB BATTLE
http://www.subsim.com/graphics/1_1can2.gif
WOLFPACK
http://www.subsim.com/graphics/1_1can3.gif


DANGEROUS WATERS
http://subsim.com/ssr/dangerous_waters/078.jpg


SILENT HUNTER 4
http://www.subsim.com/sh4/silent20.jpg

[MarkShot]

Bubblehead Nuke,

I am curious ... How would you compare using DOSBOX 63/65/70 to VPC 2004/2007? Certainly, for old Windows games that won't run on XP or Vista, there is no choice but VPC. However, for DOS games you could go either way. Have you tried DOSBOX? On the whole, I find DOSBOX to be more configureable than VPC (adjusting resources, key mapper, ...). Of course, VPC requires the install and configuring of DOS and Memaker. One thing that VPC has is the ability to make old games saveable even when the game precluded that functionality.

Besides functionality, how do they compare in terms of performance? I know VPC 2007 is supposed to use the virtualization capability built directly into the latest processors. I would imagine that on the whole DOSBOX would have more overhead.

Thanks.

[MarkShot]

I decided to experiment with VPC 2007 and DOS 6.2. I am having trouble enabling my CD drive to be seen by DOS. First, I want the physical drive to be accessible. Second, I want to install the extensions to allow host folders to be shared with my DOS session.

What do I need to do in order to enable my CD drive? I tried playing around with MSCDEX, but it kept saying that it did not recognize a CD drive.

Thanks.

[MarkShot]

I spent this afternoon testing VPC 2007 versus DOSBOX 0.70. Admittedly, I was not using a sub sim. I used a classic business stock trading game, 1830.

It took me a while to get it set up, but here are my findings:

(1) DOSBOX is much more straight forward to use for anyone who already has Windows up and running. VPC/DOS is a good exercise to remember why playing games with DOS was such a pain in the ass to get them configured to run.

(2) Video updates in DOSBOX were much smoother than VPC despite a top of the line system (QX6700 @ 3.2GHz with 8800GTX). Although turning off hardware virtualization did help updates a bit. The game was somewhat clunky, but playable. However, this is not a game with a lot of motion (turn oriented stock trading). I dedicate an entire processor to just running VPC.

(3) The place where VPC shined was in terms of compute performance. 1830 is somewhat chess like and the computation of game moves/turns can be fairly intensive as the game explores possibilities. Despite having set DOSBOX CPU cycles to MAX, VPC clearly consumed more CPU cycles (a steady 100% of the allocated processor). However, turn computation was a little less than twice as fast a DOSBOX.

Bottom line: DOSBOX has a convenient set up and much smoother graphics. VPC better allocation of RAW CPU to the hosted game. Game receives almost twice as many CPU cycles.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/vpc1.jpg

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Bubblehead Nuke,

I am curious ... How would you compare using DOSBOX 63/65/70 to VPC 2004/2007? Certainly, for old Windows games that won't run on XP or Vista, there is no choice but VPC. However, for DOS games you could go either way. Have you tried DOSBOX? On the whole, I find DOSBOX to be more configureable than VPC (adjusting resources, key mapper, ...). Of course, VPC requires the install and configuring of DOS and Memaker. One thing that VPC has is the ability to make old games saveable even when the game precluded that functionality.

Besides functionality, how do they compare in terms of performance? I know VPC 2007 is supposed to use the virtualization capability built directly into the latest processors. I would imagine that on the whole DOSBOX would have more overhead.

Thanks.

I have not used DOSbox in quite a while so I honestly can not give you any feedback on performance issues vs VPC 2007.

[Onkel Neal]

Good findings, Mark. I'm hoping to dig into DOSBOX for Fast Attack this weekend, I'll report back.

Won't have any time to play until Sat.

Cheers
Neal

[MarkShot]

Neal,

To help you out here. DOSBOX ...

The three basic steps to using DOSBOX:

(1) Install DOSBOX.

(2) Configure for your game. This may be two steps as you may need to first configure to install your game and then configure to run your game. DOSBOX uses the native Windows file system unlike VPC.

(3) Install/adjust your game.

DOSBOX for a particular game is driven by a *.CONF ini-type file. Latest version is 0.70. The install will contain a TXT FAQ file; very useful. Also, the default CONF file has lots of useful info worth reading. Once you have an CONF file for your game, then you can just create a shortcut to launch it/the game.

There are two ways to get a CONF file. First, you can just edit it by hand; this is my preferred approach. Or you can download and install another tool, DFEND (DOSBOX Front End), which will give you a more friendly interface for producing CONF files.

Here are the areas/things you need to concentrate in the CONF file:

(1) Setting graphic options and deciding whether you are going to play full screen or windowed. Besides resolutions, you can also do some screen rescaling for small sized older games. If you are running into graphic performance problems, you can usually skip some frame rendering to improve the performance at the cost of smoothness.

(2) Setting the amount of CPU. Some games will run poorly if they get too much CPU (scroll too fast or events happen too fast). In 0.70, you can also use settings such as AUTO and MAX for CPU. Otherwise, you pick the number of cycles. (You can also adjust it dynamically and see how the game is impacted and then edit in your final value.)

(3) Sound. This is usually simple. In the DOSBOX, you usually just pick Sound Blaster and in your game sound config pick Sound Blaster.

(4) You put a few lines down at the bottom for an Autoexec. Thus, instead of getting a DOS prompt which you may want when installing configuring your game, you tell DOSBOX where to find (MOUNT) the game and then launch it straight away.

Once you get the hang of it, it is really pretty easy. I'll PM you a phone number where you can reach me if you run into problems.

[Onkel Neal]

1. DOSBOX for windows installed.

2. Configure what for the game? (Fast Attack, in this case). I have changed the DOSBOX config to mount the C: drive (sounds naughty, doesn't it?).

Oh wait, I found a README.... to be continued :ping:

[Onkel Neal]

Well, still no luck, I'm having trouble installing the game now :lol:

[MarkShot]

Neal,

I sent you another PM (regarding Fast Attack). You are reading these PMs? (I don't get any receipt acknowledgement.)

[Onkel Neal]

Hi Mark, I got the PMs, thanks :yep:

Today I messed around with the config file and managed to get Fast Attack to start and run quite well today. I added John Channing's No Time Limit mod so I did not have to finish a mission in 2 hours... and I played the first two Sea of Japan mission; this game is fantastic. I started the third mission and sank the two North Korean Romeos and the patrol craft, leaving one pesky high speed boat that was circling me... then the game locked up :(

But hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad :)

Now, if I could just figure out how to capture screens and video. FRAPS won't work on DOS or Win95. There must be some software or hardware that can capture the video as it feeds the monitor....:hmm:


.

[MarkShot]

Neal,

Was that with DOSBOX?

CTRL-F5 is the DOSBOX key to screen capture. You can define the capture path in the CONF file.

If it was true DOS, then just search the Internet for "DOS screen capture TSR" ... you should be able to find a few free ones. Also, I think I have one or two which I could send you.

Glad for your progress.

[Onkel Neal]

Ahoy Mark,

No, no Dosbox in this case. I got it running on the retro machine. I think I had some problems with a cdrom driver, so I updated that. And I changed the fastattack.ini file and moved some of the files off the CD to the HD, and disabled the screensavers and power management stuff. I start the machine in DOS and it seems to work pretty well.

Thanks a million for the encouragement, Mark. I searched for some TSR apps and found one that works perfectly, Snarf. And looky here! :smug:

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack/Snarf018.gif

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack/Snarf001.gif

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack/Snarf005.gif


Fast Attack review: Updated with screens (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack.html)


thanks!
Neal

[MarkShot]

Neal,

Nice screens especially BB.

I most admit I never played that. My first and second sub sims were AOD and SC. Both of which I purchased when they were first released, 1994 and 2001, but wasn't able to get into them.

However, starting in 2005, I seriously discovered subs and began enjoying AOD, SHCE, SC/SCXIIc/SCU, SH2/PA (gave up with it), and now finally SH3/GWX/NYGM/WAC. So, most of the retro games you are tinkering with I never even experienced. On the other hand, I am satisfied that I've hit the most important ones in my short subsimming career. :)

[MarkShot]

Neal,

I just skimmed your review. If you can get it running under Virtual PC, you will be able save the session and reload it at any point in the game. Virtual PC works just like "hibernate" does in XP. It can save and reload the entire machine state.

Worth a try if that bothers you.

[Onkel Neal]

WOW! :o I did not know that such a thing existed, that could be the Holy Grail for buggy sims. I will have to check that Virtual PC out now for sure, I can see if being very useful for Fast Attack and games that stop without warning (there are not many these days, but back in the 80s and 90s... it was common).

You should definitely try Fast Attack. It has a great blend of realism and access, great environment and atmosphere. Fast Attack has auto IDing, and assisted TMA, but on the REAL level, you have to do just about everything yourself. The waterfall display does not have narrowband or DEMON, but aside from that, it is on par with Sub Command and Jane's 688(I). I actually liked FA slightly better than 688(I); it just has such a great feel and gameplay.

It's funny, when I got FA, I had just started Subsim, back in '96. My first copy of FA crashed like crazy on a Pentium 100 with 16MB ram. I could hardly get through a mission. There was a Sierra BBS but not much support. I got to know one of the Sierra 1-800 tech support guys (yeah, back then I actually called people on the phone). Then about a year later, while looking through games in a Hastings store, I saw a repackaged Fast Attack for $10 or so. When I installed it, I noticed it said "Fast Attack Gold" and had a different version number. And it was pretty stable!

So, I called the Sierra tech to get the lowdown. He said they had made a patch for Fast Attack, and it was added to the bargain version of the game being sold, but no permission had come to release the patch to the public, for those guys who bought the original version. Well, we both agreed that was unethical, so he slipped me the patch and I hosted it online.

I would be interested in hearing your impression of Fast Attack after a few missions, Mark. I did finish the mission #3 in the Sea of Japan this morning and my sub was resupplied and I was awarded the Bronze Star! So, back to sea.

Neal

[MarkShot]

Neal,

One thing I should tell about trying these older DOS games with DOSBOX or VPC is that if you got them working on the Time Machine PC, then you don't need to worry about installations under DOSBOX or VPC. Just move the entire game directory from the Time Machine PC to your XP/Vista directory (to be mounted for DOSBOX) or to your virtual hard drive for VPC. DOS had no registry, INI files, or system/system32 to worry about. So, pretty much everything needed for the game went into the installation tree. That tree can simply be ported over to whatever emulator you are trying.

[MarkShot]

Regarding VPC and saving games. You will close it selecting "save state" instead "turn it off". That will save the session exactly as it was. Then, you can just make a copy of your *.VHD (virtual hard drive) and *.VMC (virtual machine definition) files. Copy them back to restore a "save" game. The DOS test machine I made for trying the "1830" game the other day, takes about 20Mb (mainly the VHD) which is nothing these days in terms of disk space.

[MarkShot]

Neal,

I uninstalled VPC 2007 and have reinstalled VPC 2004. It seems that you cannot run both versions on one PC. I am trying VPC 2004, since DOS support was actually dropped from VPC 2007.

I want to see how that works with old DOS games. I'll let you know what I find.

[MarkShot]

Neal,

I have given up on DOS and VPC for the following reasons:

(1) VPC 2007 does not support DOS. Although I did install DOS under VPC 2007, but I could not get file sharing with the host operating system working.

(2) VPC 2004 does support DOS. It is supposed to be possible to share files with the hosting system. However, I could not get the "additions" to work/load; mean file sharing.

Now, I have seen the "additions" work under Win98 SE and sharing files with the host O/S is just like mapping network drives. It is supposed to be able to work with DOS under VPC 2004 the same way. But I just cannot seem to figure it out. For me, this is a show stopper, since it makes it difficult to manipulate or do anything with your game from the larger Windows environment. Perhaps, someone else knows the answer to this. BB Nuke?

This is one of the nice things about DOSBOX in that it completely uses the NTFS file system for all of its files. This makes configuring, backing up, and manipulating the game files much easier. For example, AOD autosaves every 20 minutes. With DOSBOX, I was able to develop a separate utility running in the background the checkpoints AODs autosaves with filename/timestamp. Thus, I have an AOD environment which I can very easily back track in if as you said if I have a "buggy game issue".

Besides providing a pseudo save game functionality, the other good thing about VPCs simulated file system contained within a virtual hard drive is that you could install the OS and a game. Then, you can distribute the complete package to someone else simply giving them two files presuming that they already have VPC installed.

Oh, well ... Time to get some sleep - 3am here.

[Onkel Neal]

You are more advanced than me. I've been reading up on VPC, I didn't realize 07 would not support DOS. But Fast Attack has been behaving, so no pressing need to use a save vhd; finished games 4,5, and 6 in the Sea of Japan battleset. Wow, I did't realize these battlesets had so many missions. Now I am itching to start the campaign. How many missions does it have? I don't remember finishing it back when the game was new.

[Onkel Neal]

Well, played through the 8th Sea of Japan mission tonight? How many missions do these battle sets contain?! :o

This one was tough, a Han class sub used a merchant to mask his presence, and he let me have it before I knew he was there.

I guess I should stop playing Fast Attack and continue working on the Subsim Retro Machine, but for the last few evenings I've have "Conn: Sonar, new contact, bearing 342, Sierra 4" running through my brain.

After I complete this battle set, I will continue this project and my little blog here ;)

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack/Snarf080.gif

[Onkel Neal]

If you need the discs for Red Storm Rising, I think I have the Amiga version somewhere - but no more Amiga. That one i played a lot.

Thanks, Sky. I have RSR on 5inch floppies, I'm watching ebay for a compatible drive. :)

What year was the Amiga version, btw?

[jmr]

Hey, Markshot, if you're still around I could use some DosBox help with AOD (DOS version).

I downloaded DosBox along with the Dfend frontend client and I set it up for AOD but when I launch the game I get the "loading simulation . . . " message but it never loads it. Do I have something configured wrong here?

[MarkShot]

Two images of AOD running side by side on the same PC. First, AOD DOS using DOSBOX. Second, CAOD Win98SE using Virtual PC 2007. Both running on top Win XP Pro SP2.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/aoddos.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/caodvpc.jpg

[MarkShot]

Myself, I much prefer the DOS version as it provides a better experience with DOSBOX, but I recently installed CAOD to watch the interviews that come along with it. (Someone made me aware of that on the SH3 forum.)

[MarkShot]

Also, don't let the sizes fool you, since you can strech AOD DOS on a CRT (secondary display) to pretty much make its window fill an entire 20" CRT display.

[Onkel Neal]

Myself, I much prefer the DOS version as it provides a better experience with DOSBOX,

How's that? What are the main differences? :hmm: Now you got me thinking, I should install vanilla AOD on ol' Retro...

[MarkShot]

Neal,

AOD DOS has variable pitch sounds for the diesel and electric motors. CAOD uses just a single sound track. CAOD allows you to aim the deck gun. I find the graphics better in AOD; more solid and well defined. CAOD seems to run at an inconsistance rate when it loses windows focus. AOD does not have this problem. CAOD includes a lot of extras like an online manual and interviews with 8 u-boat commanders. That's why I installed it; to watch them.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/caodint.jpg

[Hitman]

Also, don't let the sizes fool you, since you can strech AOD DOS on a CRT (secondary display) to pretty much make its window fill an entire 20" CRT display.

A good trick with CAOD that works wonders in sharpness of the image is to set for teh desktop exactly double as much resolution (1280x960) as CAOD has natively (640x480). When you go full screen then, the game looks really way better.

But yes, the 3D graphics like ship models somehow look better in AOD than in CAOD. That's the price to pay in CAOD for an overall better resolution that allows much more detailed and easier use of charts, gauges, and other screens. Except exterior views of enemy vessels, CAOD is superior in graphics.

P.S. Mark glad you found the interviews, it's great to hear Silent Otto telling his experiences. What a set of lucky boys his grandsons! Must have been an experience to hear him telling all that many times and being able to ask anything :up:

[MarkShot]

Well, of SH2 and SH3, CAOD had the best set of interviews.

I'll still be playing AOD DOS. Also, I wasn't too happy with MS VPC 2007 compared to using DOSBOX for DOS games. I tried 1830 (DOS) with VPC. 1830 is business game which is somewhat chess like. I found the graphics to be very slow and jerky. To the point that it destroyed game play. Clearly, the graphics subsystems of DOSBOX is better than VPC. However, VPC does seem to serve up more CPU cycles to the resident game than DOSBOX does (even when running at MAX).

Well, I just received CCAW today (Complete Carriers at War) after trying Matrix's new CAW. I will be installing it under DOSBOX today.

[Wim Libaers]

Well, of SH2 and SH3, CAOD had the best set of interviews.

I'll still be playing AOD DOS. Also, I wasn't too happy with MS VPC 2007 compared to using DOSBOX for DOS games. I tried 1830 (DOS) with VPC. 1830 is business game which is somewhat chess like. I found the graphics to be very slow and jerky. To the point that it destroyed game play. Clearly, the graphics subsystems of DOSBOX is better than VPC. However, VPC does seem to serve up more CPU cycles to the resident game than DOSBOX does (even when running at MAX).

Well, I just received CCAW today (Complete Carriers at War) after trying Matrix's new CAW. I will be installing it under DOSBOX today.

QEMU is also a good and free emulator, but a bit harder to configure, you'd have to play with some text configuration files. Works well with CAOD (using Win98).

I've also heard good things about VMware Server, but never tried it. No cost, but you have to register to get the download.

[MarkShot]

I posted a whole set screen shots for the classic Complete Carriers at War if anyone is interested in seeing them here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1498311

[CptGrayWolf]

Ah yes, the old AOD vs CAOD debate. I always remembered that AOD was the way to go with 'real' players.
Personaly I'm still playing AOD using DOSBox. :up:
And to those that say DOSBox is complicated to configure (I agree), don't forget about the frontends!
I'm using D.O.G. that makes all DOSBox configurations (screen resolution, CD drive location, sound, CPU speed etc...) a breeze! http://www.freewebs.com/erikgg/

Long live classic gaming, when gameplay was more important then eye candy!:rock:

[CptGrayWolf]

btw I also have Fast Attack but without the manual, I'm a little clueless about certain things...
Anybody have a magic link to the manual by any chance?

[MarkShot]

Try www.replacementdocs.com - they have manuals for quite a few older games.

I, also, use DOSBOX all the time. What a great piece of software. For those who think it is too technically complicated, they probably have no idea as to what trouble we really went through with DOS to get games to run: memory managers, disk compression technology, interrupt handlers, etc...

I remember having a menu of various boot configurations which would came up depending on which game I wanted to play.

Actually, many of these older games are enhanced by being able to run them under Windows.

You have the full use of your PC for other things now while playing.

You can manipulate auto-saves and other things to develop background game checkpointing facilities.

Since DOS games tend to be very menu/keystroke intensive, they work much better with gaming programmable keyboards like Logitech's G-15 series, ...

You can run in a Window on a second monitor when the game has gotten kind of uninteresting ... do something else ... and keep your eye on the game.

I've even played AOD DOS when it was stuck on 64X compression while returning to base ... put AOD in a window ... and play 1830 (an old DOS stock trading game) in another window on another monitor on a separate processor while my u-boat made the long trip back to France. With true DOS, I guess I would have been sitting in front of my PC reading a book for a few hours.

[CptGrayWolf]

Try www.replacementdocs.com - they have manuals for quite a few older games.

Yup thanks for the link Mark, I love that site! But nothing for Fast Attack.
I think that official manual is very rare indeed...I'll keep searching.:ping:

[jmr]

I've been looking for the Fast Attack manual as well but no luck so far =\

[sharrychrist]

Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

[nikimcbee]

Any news?:hmm:

[jmr]

You guys still looking for a Fast Attack manual? I ended up buying another copy of FA off of eBay but this copy came with the box AND the manual. I'll get around to scanning it this weekend - it's about 80 pages, brief but it will fill in the gaps you have about operating the various stations.

[CptGrayWolf]

You guys still looking for a Fast Attack manual? I ended up buying another copy of FA off of eBay but this copy came with the box AND the manual. I'll get around to scanning it this weekend - it's about 80 pages, brief but it will fill in the gaps you have about operating the various stations.

Woa, jmr found the holy grail of subsim manuals! Thnks jmr!:rock:

[jmr]

Ok guys here you go. I never scanned a book before so it's not professional looking but it is the entire manual for Fast Attack. I uploaded it to www.replacementdocs.com but it's pending approval. Until then you can grab it from Filefront.

Enjoy! (http://files.filefront.com/Fast+Attackpdf/;8847985;/fileinfo.html)

[CptGrayWolf]

Ok guys here you go. I never scanned a book before so it's not professional looking but it is the entire manual for Fast Attack. I uploaded it to www.replacementdocs.com but it's pending approval. Until then you can grab it from Filefront.

Enjoy! (http://files.filefront.com/Fast+Attackpdf/;8847985;/fileinfo.html)

jmr this is great! Now I know what the heck i'm looking at, eg:the warning lights on the periscope!
Time to start reading hunt for red october again and get in the mood, thnks again! :up:

[Onkel Neal]

Speaking of Fast Attack, the upcoming 2008 Subsim Almanac has an exclusive feature by the man who created, programmed and oversaw the game design, Jim Frantz.

Just a little history you cannot get anywhere else about a classic subsim
On sale December 1, 2007
http://www.subsim.com/almanac/just_for_fun2.jpg

[MarkShot]

Looking forward to it. The last one was a great combination of gaming and history!

[CptGrayWolf]

Speaking of Fast Attack, the upcoming 2008 Subsim Almanac has an exclusive feature by the man who created, programmed and oversaw the game design, Jim Frantz.

Just a little history you cannot get anywhere else about a classic subsim
On sale December 1, 2007
http://www.subsim.com/almanac/just_for_fun2.jpg

Nice Living Room Simulator you got there...is there a mod for the sofa color?

[nikimcbee]

Speaking of Fast Attack, the upcoming 2008 Subsim Almanac has an exclusive feature by the man who created, programmed and oversaw the game design, Jim Frantz.

Just a little history you cannot get anywhere else about a classic subsim
On sale December 1, 2007
http://www.subsim.com/almanac/just_for_fun2.jpg

Nice Living Room Simulator you got there...is there a mod for the sofa color?

It must be period correct!:rotfl:

[nikimcbee]

Fond memories of my Pentium 150Mhz, ahhh

T'was a good machine, with all you could desire. Sort of

May keep my 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo though :)

I had a pentium 120.:down: I guess it was okay.

[nikimcbee]

Did you try Civil War Generals 2?

[nikimcbee]

:hmm: Okay Neal, try this one: MiG Alley Ace on cassette tape (not disk):cool: Is that ols school enough?:huh:

[Onkel Neal]

My goodness, that's getting there. How about Bedlam on cassette, with the TRS-80? And you had to set the volume just right or your would get an input error and the program would not load into memory:arrgh!:

[nikimcbee]

My goodness, that's getting there. How about Bedlam on cassette, with the TRS-80? And you had to set the volume just right or your would get an input error and the program would not load into memory:arrgh!:

Those old cassettes were a trip. Did you ever put one in an audio tape player and listen to it?

[nikimcbee]

Well, played through the 8th Sea of Japan mission tonight? How many missions do these battle sets contain?! :o

This one was tough, a Han class sub used a merchant to mask his presence, and he let me have it before I knew he was there.

I guess I should stop playing Fast Attack and continue working on the Subsim Retro Machine, but for the last few evenings I've have "Conn: Sonar, new contact, bearing 342, Sierra 4" running through my brain.

After I complete this battle set, I will continue this project and my little blog here ;)

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack/Snarf080.gif

d'oh