You Worst Torpedo Loadout Ever?

[GnarPow]

I personally just had the worst batch of torpedoes in the Navy's history I think and I was wondering if anyone had as bad luck as me....

During my most recent patrol I came on a small convoy of 6 merchants and 3 destroyers... so I get into position and start attacking and here is my amount of bad torps... I had 3 duds actually hit the ships and bounce off and I had 9, count them, 9 premature explosions on the way to the target. So in anger I surfaced and actually gunned down all 3 DDs from 2500+m so they couldnt really hit me and just started picking on the ships with what torps I had left and emptied all of my deck gun ammo. 1 ship even kept floating with a huge list and I tried to ram it to roll it over, but that didnt really work, hehe. So I expended all of my torps and ammo for about 60k worth of tonnage. Not bad nonetheless but it was hard earned, lol

So my count is 12 duds in 1 loadout... Anyone get any worse than this or am I the unluckiest skipper around?

[mookiemookie]

So in anger I surfaced and actually gunned down all 3 DDs from 2500+m so they couldnt really hit me

Gotta love those overpowered guns and blind destroyers. :roll: This would have been suicide for a real sub to do.

[AVGWarhawk]

This happened in RL. I was reading about it last night but do not recall the submarine. They saved the last one so Lockwood could fire it at a solid rock wall. It did not detonate. This was the turning point to get the buggers fixed.

[kikn79]

This happened in RL. I was reading about it last night but do not recall the submarine. They saved the last one so Lockwood could fire it at a solid rock wall. It did not detonate. This was the turning point to get the buggers fixed.

It was Mush Morton and the USS Wahoo.

[AVGWarhawk]

Was it Mush? I do not recall that name but yes, he had his issues with the bad torps and a lot of them! The other skippers were getting the crappy end of the stick also. Mush ment to do something about it when he hightailed it back to PH to stake his claim.

[kikn79]

Was it Mush? I do not recall that name but yes, he had his issues with the bad torps and a lot of them! The other skippers were getting the crappy end of the stick also. Mush ment to do something about it when he hightailed it back to PH to stake his claim.

His real name was Dudley W. Morton, but Mush was his nickname. (allegedly because he could still talk with 4 (yes, four!!!) golf balls in his mouth.)

He spawned the turning of the tide against Japan. He was one of the first "aggressive" captains that went after the enemy with vengence.

Chuck

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, but I believe this was another Skipper with the same issue. 13 torps in tanker. Only one detonated. The last they saved. I will have to look tonight.

[AhhhFresh]

I recall the Tang had a bunch run really deep on one patrol... after a bunch of complete misses they saved four, I believe, and took them apart and actually fixed them. Reading that section and how O'Kane described torpedo assembly and it's flaws I realized that the SH IV method of "bad batches" of duds is probably pretty realistic... though extremely frustrating.

My personal worst was 10 fish at 5 different ships and only a single small hole in one of them. No clang! duds though.

That patrol was one of the prime reasons I switched to S-boats and still only load MArk 10s if I'm in anything esle! :D

[Crosseye76]

Yes, but I believe this was another Skipper with the same issue. 13 torps in tanker. Only one detonated. The last they saved. I will have to look tonight.


It was Dan Daspit and the "Tinosa" Shooting at one of the "Tonan Maru" converted whale factory ships. 11 duds.

To be sure, there were many others, but that was the last straw.

[AVGWarhawk]

Man, that name is not ringing a bell either. I will have to look at my book. The book is on the Batfish with interelated stories and one of them was this dud torpedo deal. I'll check it out tonight.

[wahoo]

Mush Morton was the best out there at the time!!!


Lawson 'Red' Ramage also had a lot of duds on his first patrols, and got into
a shouting match with RADM Ralph Christie, and had to be subdued by another
commander!!!!

[Threadfin]

Never heard the golf balls in mouth thing before. I believe Morton's nickname was given to him at the Naval Academy (most officers were given nicknames there), and was due to a resemblance to the character Mushmouth in the Moon Mullins cartoon.

http://www.antique-dolls-toys.com/viewitem.php?cat=17&view=7

[cobalt]

You can surface and gun down 3 dd's at once in sh4?

and to think i was about to buy it the other day:nope:

[daft]

Man, that name is not ringing a bell either. I will have to look at my book. The book is on the Batfish with interelated stories and one of them was this dud torpedo deal. I'll check it out tonight.

I'm pretty sure it was Coe in Skipjack. He submitted a pretty dire report on the performance of the Mk XIV which prompted Lockwood to conduct some testing of his own in June 1942. The result was that they managed to isolate the depth problem, but not much more than that.

[daft]

My experiences this far is that duds and prematures are too uncommon. I've checked that I rally have the Dud Torps checkbox checked several times, but I've had it turned on from day one.

[AirborneTD]

I typically don't have the duds I think I should. Especially early in the war. Morton in the Wahoo had his slew of duds or other torpedo failures in his first penetration of the Sea of Japan. He was experimenting with 1 torpedo per ship. Up until then, he was a supporter of US torpedoes and the magnetic exploder. After this disasterous patrol, not so much.

[AVGWarhawk]

Man, that name is not ringing a bell either. I will have to look at my book. The book is on the Batfish with interelated stories and one of them was this dud torpedo deal. I'll check it out tonight.
I'm pretty sure it was Coe in Skipjack. He submitted a pretty dire report on the performance of the Mk XIV which prompted Lockwood to conduct some testing of his own in June 1942. The result was that they managed to isolate the depth problem, but not much more than that.

It might have been. I'm checking when I get home.

[AhhhFresh]

My experiences this far is that duds and prematures are too uncommon. I've checked that I rally have the Dud Torps checkbox checked several times, but I've had it turned on from day one.

I bet you are getting plenty of duds actually. The clang into the side of the target kind of dud is pretty rare, but the Mark XIV tends to explode early fairly often in what looks like good hits but actually aren't... they're just scratches. If you send three torpedoes under the stacks of medium freighter and it motors on, oblivious, despite what appear to be solid hits... that's not a failure of the damage model but of your Mark XIV's. A Mark XIV that works is fairly kick ass.... problem is that they didn't very often.

It seems that you'll get good batches and bad batches of them.... sometimes you're sinking every ship with a single good shot... other times it's 4 fish to sink a damn medium freighter.

Personally I hate that and don't use 'em.

[daft]

I bet you are getting plenty of duds actually. The clang into the side of the target kind of dud is pretty rare, but the Mark XIV tends to explode early fairly often in what looks like good hits but actually aren't... they're just scratches. If you send three torpedoes under the stacks of medium freighter and it motors on, oblivious, despite what appear to be solid hits... that's not a failure of the damage model but of your Mark XIV's. A Mark XIV that works is fairly kick ass.... problem is that they didn't very often.

It seems that you'll get good batches and bad batches of them.... sometimes you're sinking every ship with a single good shot... other times it's 4 fish to sink a damn medium freighter.

Personally I hate that and don't use 'em.

True, I might have missed a few prematures that detonated close to the target, but still. I have seen a dramatic improvement in the "oomph"-factor of the MkXIV around late -43. They seem to hit with more force than previously. I was actually a bit startled when one of my torps hit home with larger than normal "whack" on one patrol. Upgraded warheads or just my imagination?

[GnarPow]

You can surface and gun down 3 dd's at once in sh4?

and to think i was about to buy it the other day:nope:


I took them down 1 at a time... i surfaced fast near one and blew it away and then flank speed at the next closest one and then the same for the last... I never battled all 3 at 1 time, that definately would have been suicide. I kept them separated using the convoy in the middle and I landed most shots over 2500M which is pretty darn far. Im pretty good with the deck gun and can land hull shots from good distances. From what i've heard convoy DDs AI isnt Elite and Hard like the task forces so you can get away with some stuff like that.

[AhhhFresh]

I bet you are getting plenty of duds actually. The clang into the side of the target kind of dud is pretty rare, but the Mark XIV tends to explode early fairly often in what looks like good hits but actually aren't... they're just scratches. If you send three torpedoes under the stacks of medium freighter and it motors on, oblivious, despite what appear to be solid hits... that's not a failure of the damage model but of your Mark XIV's. A Mark XIV that works is fairly kick ass.... problem is that they didn't very often.

It seems that you'll get good batches and bad batches of them.... sometimes you're sinking every ship with a single good shot... other times it's 4 fish to sink a damn medium freighter.

Personally I hate that and don't use 'em.
True, I might have missed a few prematures that detonated close to the target, but still. I have seen a dramatic improvement in the "oomph"-factor of the MkXIV around late -43. They seem to hit with more force than previously. I was actually a bit startled when one of my torps hit home with larger than normal "whack" on one patrol. Upgraded warheads or just my imagination?
Oh I didn't realize you were playing in late '43... by that time they had fixed the problems with the detonating pin and early magnetic detonation (by not using it at all, but I'd say it's fair for SH IV to keep it in and have under keel shots remain unreliable and fixing the other magnetic related duds). Not sure what SH IV does (I've yet to mtake it into '43 so far), but historically that's when sub sinkings started climbing dramatically.

I suspect you are seeing what the engineers envisioned a Mark 14 doing, instead of what actually happened early in the war. There shouldn't be many ships that can take more than 2 solid and real hits from a Mark 14 and not sink promptly.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, but I believe this was another Skipper with the same issue. 13 torps in tanker. Only one detonated. The last they saved. I will have to look tonight.


It was Dan Daspit and the "Tinosa" Shooting at one of the "Tonan Maru" converted whale factory ships. 11 duds.

To be sure, there were many others, but that was the last straw.

Crosseye76 gets the bonus question correct!!!!:up:

It was Tinosa (SS283) with Daspit at the helm. July 1943, spotted a 18000 ton tanker. First torp detonated and stopped the vessel. An additional 13 torpedoes sent and none detonated. The whole bakers dozen were duds. Last torpedo saved and brought to PH. Admiral Lockwood fired this torpedo personally at a solid ocean wall and it was a dud. Even with this damning evidence of bad torps, the brass in the states still blamed the skippers for bad aim or running the torps to low.

I don't know about you guys but I would be just as PO'd as Mush was when he had a bag of duds also. Risk my neck with a load of duds? Not a wonder he stormed Lockwoods office for some answers and corrective measures.

Fine job Crosseye:rock:

[ccruner13]

i dont recall what happend to my entire loadout but one time i came upon a carrier task force and let three fish at two shokakus each and all but one exploded within 30 seconds...the last one i fired was the one that didnt blow early but they figured out what was up and all evasived on me so that one missed too..who know if it would have gone well. i didnt get to shoot my rear torps so i dont remember what they ended as. i thought that was absurd til i heard some of these game and rl stories of even worse. im also now careering in s boat

[pythos]

It is my undestanding that the deck guns of American subs were quite formidable. From the pictures and drawings I have seen of them, they were quite powerful units, and the footage I have seen of American attacks, the shell damage to the enemy vessle is huge.

I say this cause I see people griping about over powered deck guns. It is my understanding that japanese destroyers were like the Zero. Quite fast, maeuverable, and powerful, but had paper thin armor and went up into flames with only a few hits. This with the combination of power deck gun armament made a surface duel between and American sub, and a japanese destroyer quite possible, and in some waters of the pacific, necessary, due to the shallow waters.

Also, remember, Us subs were used to "soften up" enemy shore defenses before minor invasion fleets moved in. That suggests to me the deck guns were no joke when it came to american subs.

[daft]

Oh I didn't realize you were playing in late '43... by that time they had fixed the problems with the detonating pin and early magnetic detonation (by not using it at all, but I'd say it's fair for SH IV to keep it in and have under keel shots remain unreliable and fixing the other magnetic related duds). Not sure what SH IV does (I've yet to mtake it into '43 so far), but historically that's when sub sinkings started climbing dramatically.

I suspect you are seeing what the engineers envisioned a Mark 14 doing, instead of what actually happened early in the war. There shouldn't be many ships that can take more than 2 solid and real hits from a Mark 14 and not sink promptly.

I was unsure if it the warhead revision was in the game. Someone mentioned that torps get more effective once crew members get more experience. I've just recently restarted my career in order to play through the war using manual TDC only, so now I'm back to using the puny pre-1943 warheads. Still very few duds and prematures though. :)

[daft]

Crosseye76 gets the bonus question correct!!!!:up:

It was Tinosa (SS283) with Daspit at the helm. July 1943, spotted a 18000 ton tanker. First torp detonated and stopped the vessel. An additional 13 torpedoes sent and none detonated. The whole bakers dozen were duds. Last torpedo saved and brought to PH. Admiral Lockwood fired this torpedo personally at a solid ocean wall and it was a dud. Even with this damning evidence of bad torps, the brass in the states still blamed the skippers for bad aim or running the torps to low.

I don't know about you guys but I would be just as PO'd as Mush was when he had a bag of duds also. Risk my neck with a load of duds? Not a wonder he stormed Lockwoods office for some answers and corrective measures.

Fine job Crosseye:rock:

It's hard to grasp that they actually sent men into harms way with weapons that hadn't been tested properly. Coe's report forced Lockwood and Christie to perform tests, but they were superficial and it wasn't until Daspit's tanker episode that they tested the firing mechanism properly. Imagine if they had done that in June 1942 also.

[AVGWarhawk]

Crosseye76 gets the bonus question correct!!!!:up:

It was Tinosa (SS283) with Daspit at the helm. July 1943, spotted a 18000 ton tanker. First torp detonated and stopped the vessel. An additional 13 torpedoes sent and none detonated. The whole bakers dozen were duds. Last torpedo saved and brought to PH. Admiral Lockwood fired this torpedo personally at a solid ocean wall and it was a dud. Even with this damning evidence of bad torps, the brass in the states still blamed the skippers for bad aim or running the torps to low.

I don't know about you guys but I would be just as PO'd as Mush was when he had a bag of duds also. Risk my neck with a load of duds? Not a wonder he stormed Lockwoods office for some answers and corrective measures.

Fine job Crosseye:rock:
It's hard to grasp that they actually sent men into harms way with weapons that hadn't been tested properly. Coe's report forced Lockwood and Christie to perform tests, but they were superficial and it wasn't until Daspit's tanker episode that they tested the firing mechanism properly. Imagine if they had done that in June 1942 also.

Also add in the rigged camera set up for the periscope so as to take pictures of the torpedoes not doing the job. Verbal/visual evidence and it was still a mess to get them corrected.

[kikn79]

Oh I didn't realize you were playing in late '43... by that time they had fixed the problems with the detonating pin and early magnetic detonation (by not using it at all, but I'd say it's fair for SH IV to keep it in and have under keel shots remain unreliable and fixing the other magnetic related duds). Not sure what SH IV does (I've yet to mtake it into '43 so far), but historically that's when sub sinkings started climbing dramatically.

I suspect you are seeing what the engineers envisioned a Mark 14 doing, instead of what actually happened early in the war. There shouldn't be many ships that can take more than 2 solid and real hits from a Mark 14 and not sink promptly.

I was unsure if it the warhead revision was in the game. Someone mentioned that torps get more effective once crew members get more experience. I've just recently restarted my career in order to play through the war using manual TDC only, so now I'm back to using the puny pre-1943 warheads. Still very few duds and prematures though. :)

Per the USS Wahoo third patrol report:

The "Arizona Maru" they encountered took 3 seperate attacks to bring down:
1st attack:
2 fish fired 1 hit

2nd attack:
2 fish fired 1 hit

3rd attack:
2 fish fired 2 hits

Sunk for 9500 Tons but still after 4 torpedos took 15 minutes to sink and was still making 9 knots before the last 2 fish sent her to the bottom.

I thought the damage model was a little messed up too at first, however, I think maybe not nearly as much as I first thought.



Also add in the rigged camera set up for the periscope so as to take pictures of the torpedoes not doing the job. Verbal/visual evidence and it was still a mess to get them corrected.

One of the first things that started to change the minds of the powers that be was several Ultra messages where the Japaneese stated that the torpedoes struck the hull but were duds. When you are hearing it from the enemy, there can be no doubt as to the validaty of the claims....

Chuck

[AVGWarhawk]

One of the first things that started to change the minds of the powers that be was several Ultra messages where the Japaneese stated that the torpedoes struck the hull but were duds. When you are hearing it from the enemy, there can be no doubt as to the validaty of the claims....

Chuck


I wonder if the Japanese were chuckling when they stated the torps just bounce off the vessels hull?