Confession: I switched back to Metric

[NefariousKoel]

I know, it's painful but I did it.

I finally had the guts to drop the last bulwark preventing me from full realism - map contacts. I could easily do it with Imperial since I've had practice adjusting the Stadimeter to get closer to a real range estimation, but I'm just more comfortable on full realism knowing that I'm not guessing on how far down the masts I have to go. I really want Imperial but I can wait for it to be fixed. Especially since my first Career sinking went down in record time due to my 2 fish hitting in the exact same spot almost exactly where I was aiming (my AoB guesstimates are pretty damn good these days).

Anyone else switch back for accuracy or am I the only party pooper? :smug:

[DirtyHarry3033]

I'm pretty close to it. As a "Worthless American" I was born and bred on Imperial units, and comfortable with them, and certainly it is correct for the game.

I started out SH4 with v1.1, manual TDC and Imperial, and pretty much couldn't hit the broad side of a barn except thru pure chance. So I went to the auto-TDC crap :oops:

But I'm wanting desperately to do manual plots. Spent the last 2 days making various whiz-wheels in the hopes that one day it will be fixed.

But if the metric-imperial conversions are screwed, guess I won't have a choice but to go metric, huh? And wait until it's fixed before I use the wheels..

I hope that when (if) we get another patch, they'll get the conversions sorted out, and display everything in Imperial. Especially the deck gun, so I don't have to waste time trying to mentally convert yards to meters.

DH

[Ducimus]

Ive been considering it myself for 3 reaons.

- Metric to English (imperial) conversions isnt correct,

- The Game is inheirantly a metric game. From the game files to the gameplay. Not everything gets converted, accurate conversion or not.

- after a couple years of using metric in Sh3, im just used to it.

The metric conversions alone are a big peeve, and to be honest id sooner switch to the autoTDC then switch to metric in SH4 , but im slowly giving in. I think the main reason i dont right now is because the idea of having my depth read to me in meters rather then feet is...well.. just blah.. blah i say, blah!

[NefariousKoel]

Yeah, it's blah for me too, but until they fix the Stadimeter range to Imperial .. well.. I got enough factors throwing off my solution and I don't need a technicality adding to it.

I'm having faith it'll be fixed so I can go back to my motherlovin' Feet!

[froschman]

For an european like me it is good to be able to switch to the metric system. As a professional engineer I am used to do my calculations in metric and avoid the many odd factors in the imperial system.

[joea]

Jeeez can you imgaine in 2005 if some folks asked for imperial units as an option in SH3?????

The USN used imperial, full stop.

The KM used metric, full stop.

It should not have been an option period, and if it's wonky it should be fixed. :down:

[Egan]

I'm still using Imperial. I considered going back to metric as well, given the possible bugs in it but since I've had no troubles what so ever I just stuck with it. To be honest, I doubt that I would have noticed any problems with measurement in the tdc if other people hadn't spoken up. I'm using full manual targetting and my hit rate is about 90% but i can understand if people are put of by this bug - it does seem to be one of those little but fundamental ones.

[joea]

Ah well as I posted here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=529621&posted=1#post529621


I just am like this guy sometimes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Seinfeld_s7e6.jpg

[Hitman]

I play with metric just because I know it is more error-free than imperial, but since my method for manual targeting does not involve measuring and plotting on the chart, I almost never notice I'm playing metric. Only when taking the ship's length for speed can I notice it, but normally I make an estimate and then fiddle a bit with the position keeper instead of using the stopwatch, so it's only on rare ocasions I see I'm using different measurement units than intended. Anyway, despite being european and well used to metric, I never had problems using imperial, probably because my first real sim was SH1 and I got much used to it quickly.:up:

[Mudrik]

Being a child of the 60's (well just about), I have grown up with both imperial and metric. Here in the UK:-

My own weight is always in stones.
My distance is always in miles but when asked for directions it is always "100 metres down to the right".
When I am doing DIY I measure in cms and metres, understand feet and inches to a point but am hopeless at converting.
When cooking I can use both grammes and ounces but again, struggle to convert.
As a kid the temperature was always in fahrenheit but now I only understand celsius.
My car does x miles to the gallon but I have to buy my petrol in litres.
In a pub the beer comes in pints but the spirits come in ml.
You can still buy cheese and meat in pounds and ounces.
A newcorn child is always measured in pounds and ounces.
When buying carpet it is usually sold by the yard.

It is not helped by the way the UK works. No-one seems to have yet settled on which system to use and it could be generations until we are all finally talking in metric.

I guess what I'm trying to say is well done to all you guys who can pick and choose which standard to use, I wish I could. :up:

[BBury]

Being a child of the 60's (well just about), I have grown up with both imperial and metric. Here in the UK:-

My own weight is always in stones.
My distance is always in miles but when asked for directions it is always "100 metres down to the right".
When I am doing DIY I measure in cms and metres, understand feet and inches to a point but am hopeless at converting.
When cooking I can use both grammes and ounces but again, struggle to convert.
As a kid the temperature was always in fahrenheit but now I only understand celsius.
My car does x miles to the gallon but I have to buy my petrol in litres.
In a pub the beer comes in pints but the spirits come in ml.
You can still buy cheese and meat in pounds and ounces.
A newcorn child is always measured in pounds and ounces.
When buying carpet it is usually sold by the yard.

It is not helped by the way the UK works. No-one seems to have yet settled on which system to use and it could be generations until we are all finally talking in metric.

I guess what I'm trying to say is well done to all you guys who can pick and choose which standard to use, I wish I could. :up:


That's because after the GPS constellation was up and accurate measurements of the earth could be taken, they found that the metric scale was off. Yes, it's still based on tens but a meter is an arbitrary value. The nice thing about the Nautical scale is it's based on time/degrees which makes time,spead and distance calculations easier. There is no metric time.

[Argus00]

I was born in Romania (metric), spent 8 years in the US (imperial), came back to Romania - metric again.

Frankly, I have no problem with either system. I'm used to doing my calculations in metric, but occasionally I had to go imperial for some contracts with foreign (US, UK, other) firms.

For historical accuracy, in SH3 I went metric, in SH4 I'm going imperial.

[Bilge_Rat]

I am still using Imperial, since it does not feel right using metric in the 40's U.S. Navy.

In my case, using Imperial has had no impact on my shooting, by using the various tools available (i.e. Hitman's guide to determine AOB, 3 min. rule to determine speed, Krupp's rec. manual, 360 plotting wheel), I am getting close to a 100% hit ratio as long as I dont shoot over 1,000 yds.

On the whole imperial/meters feature/bug, I still have problems figuring it out the correct answer, if the game reads yards as meters and all distances are off about 10%, the PK should also give us a speed which is off since it is based on the wrong distance (elementary TMA 101), so wrong distance/speed, when shooting at a target 100-150 yds long which is 1,000+ yds away should result in a large percentage of misses.

However, as noted above I am getting 90-100% hit ratio at 1,000 yds when the correct Imperial range/AOB/speed are fed into the PK, so something does not add up, since I always measure range from the top of the mast as stated in the manual.

The manual states that the measurements on the NAV map have a "fudge" factor built in to simulate RL 1940's conditions, I am wondering if this might not be the answer.

[dkbos]

I'm so confused at this point that I may just go back to manual. After reading so many threads about this I'm not even sure what the issues are any more... conversion within the game? rec. manual errors? Stadimeter displays meters? It's a headache, and for me at least takes a great deal away from the game play.

I had to upgrade my video card and RAM just to get SH4 to run. The upside being SH3 runs like a freaking dream now. I'm playing it more than SH4.

[Bilge_Rat]

dkbos, just find a method that works for you and stick with it, SUBSIM forum members (myself included) are notorious for arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

[dkbos]

Thanks BR... I will. I'm currently reading Silent Victory and it makes playing SH4 very enjoyable. The frustration I feel with every miss must be very similar to what those real-world skippers must have felt, so in that regard SH4 is a fantastic simulation :) . I just need to hone my speed estimation skills.

[Deep Six]

I'm still using imperial measurements, but hey I don't hit squat anyway!!!

So just maybe If I go back to Metric everything will work right, but I'll still hit squat!!

Deep Six

[CaptainCox]

Never even tried Imperial in game...was never good in math, and yards and stuff is way beyond me, always was!

[Hartmann]

i use metric because sh3 used it too, and always in my coutry the traditional system is metric :yep:

[joea]

I give up.

[zylark]

Metric here. Imperial units have never made any sense to me.

As for the devs getting some metric/imperial conversions wrong, well I can understand that. And they are not alone. Even NASA got it wrong with their Mars Climate Orbiter.

The mistakes proved to be fatal. The Mars climate orbiter probably burned up in the Martian atmosphere because technicians at Lockheed-Martin and at JPL used different units of measurement for navigation. Lockheed-Martin transmitted English units to JPL engineers, who thought they were getting metric units.

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/mars/marsgifs1/120799_mt_450.jpg

The devs at least have the chance to fix their mistake now that it is recognized.

[Ducimus]

Metric here. Imperial units have never made any sense to me.


I think its one of those things where you have to be around it since childhood to be comfortable with. I work with the English system as i was brought up to call it, and the Metric system all the time, but if given the choice, i'll use the English/imperial system because it was always emphasized more then metric growing up. My only thing is, i dislike the scale some people use. Being an ex contruction worker of sorts, when i measure things, i'll say something is 96 and 3/8ths of an inch, where as someone else might say, 8 ft and 3/8's of an inch. Where as ill keep the scale in flat inch's because its quicker and easier and more accurate, someone else might raise the measurement up in scale.

[Mav87th]

If you use Imperial and have slight trouble with getting JUST the right ranges - especialy on longer ranges - here is the reason.

Steadimeter - figure given in the PK/TDC is meters

Sonar reports from Sonarman about Range to Target - given in meters in the text field.

Visual sighting reports from the WO - given in feet in the text field

Radar - given in an unknown unit in the A-scope :hmm:


For all ranges given in meters convert like this to yards

Range * 1.0X = yards (where X is one thousand of the range to the target...:huh: )

Eksamples are in place

target at 9000 meters - 9000m*1.09= 9810 yards

Target at 5000 meters - 5000m*1.05= 5250 yards

Target at 12 km - 12000*1.12=13440 yards


The reason is that tests have shown, that the difference between the real conversion and the ingame convertion gets bigger and bigger with increased distance.

Good thing is that the visual reports are spot on in feet......

[RocketDog]

For all ranges given in meters convert like this to yards

Range * 1.0X = yards (where X is one thousand of the range to the target...:huh: )

Eksamples are in place

target at 9000 meters - 9000m*1.09= 9810 yards

Target at 5000 meters - 5000m*1.05= 5250 yards

Target at 12 km - 12000*1.12=13440 yards


The reason is that tests have shown, that the difference between the real conversion and the ingame convertion gets bigger and bigger with increased distance.

This is very discouraging. The sheer incompetence ans stupidity of the devs is astonishing.

RD.

[BBury]

For all ranges given in meters convert like this to yards


Range * 1.0X = yards (where X is one thousand of the range to the target...:huh: )

Eksamples are in place

target at 9000 meters - 9000m*1.09= 9810 yards

Target at 5000 meters - 5000m*1.05= 5250 yards

Target at 12 km - 12000*1.12=13440 yards



The reason is that tests have shown, that the difference between the real conversion and the ingame convertion gets bigger and bigger with increased distance.



This is very discouraging. The sheer incompetence ans stupidity of the devs is astonishing.

RD.


RD, I think that's an unjustified judgement of the Dev's. Now, if you want to slam Ubi for pushing this out the door before it was ready I'll hop on that bandwagon.

[SteamWake]

This is very discouraging. The sheer incompetence ans stupidity of the devs is astonishing.

RD.




Way to bring something to the discussion...

Anyhow... I was quite supprised to learn when the game was released that Imperial units were not available. I mean this "is" the pacific theater no ?

But seeing as they built upon the sh3 which is and should have been metric. It almost makes sense.

[Weigh-Man]

Being a child of the 60's (well just about), I have grown up with both imperial and metric. Here in the UK:-

My own weight is always in stones.
My distance is always in miles but when asked for directions it is always "100 metres down to the right".
When I am doing DIY I measure in cms and metres, understand feet and inches to a point but am hopeless at converting.
When cooking I can use both grammes and ounces but again, struggle to convert.
As a kid the temperature was always in fahrenheit but now I only understand celsius.
My car does x miles to the gallon but I have to buy my petrol in litres.
In a pub the beer comes in pints but the spirits come in ml.
You can still buy cheese and meat in pounds and ounces.
A newcorn child is always measured in pounds and ounces.
When buying carpet it is usually sold by the yard.

It is not helped by the way the UK works. No-one seems to have yet settled on which system to use and it could be generations until we are all finally talking in metric.

I guess what I'm trying to say is well done to all you guys who can pick and choose which standard to use, I wish I could. :up:

As a Technical Manager for a Weighing Equipment Company in the UK, I can confirm that Stones, Pounds and Ounces are actually an Illegal measurement and have been since 2003. Anyone using lb's and Ounces for selling goods of any kind in the UK and Europe is breaking the law.

Even hospitals come under the rules now, any scales bought since 2003 have to have Stones/pounds disabled, that said when was the last time you heard a newborn babies weight in kg

[NefariousKoel]

As a Technical Manager for a Weighing Equipment Company in the UK, I can confirm that Stones, Pounds and Ounces are actually an Illegal measurement and have been since 2003. Anyone using lb's and Ounces for selling goods of any kind in the UK and Europe is breaking the law.

Even hospitals come under the rules now, any scales bought since 2003 have to have Stones/pounds disabled, that said when was the last time you heard a newborn babies weight in kg

:o
They hang people for that?
:o

[DirtyHarry3033]

As a Technical Manager for a Weighing Equipment Company in the UK, I can confirm that Stones, Pounds and Ounces are actually an Illegal measurement and have been since 2003. Anyone using lb's and Ounces for selling goods of any kind in the UK and Europe is breaking the law.

Even hospitals come under the rules now, any scales bought since 2003 have to have Stones/pounds disabled, that said when was the last time you heard a newborn babies weight in kg
:o
They hang people for that?
:o
I have it on good authority that that is why the colonies revolted and made a "Declaration of Independance"! ;) ;) ;)

The crown was intent on introducing a new system of weights and measures that was totally incomprehensible to anyone and the rest is history :rotfl:

We Americans are much more tolerant of such nonsense, the fine American beer I'm drinking right now lists its contents as:

"12 Fl Oz (0.355 L)"

So the consumer can pick the measure he's most comfortable with :D Guess if this was England, the CEO of that brewery would be sitting on death row right now, if England had such a thing...

[zylark]

Well, the UK is part of the EU. And in the EU the smart Germans and the emotional French call quite a bit of the shots. And since both those nations (who usually cannot agree on anything) use metric, they've found a common cause against the UK, putting aside their own differences for a tiny bit, and are all to pleased about it. Thus the UK being enforced metric.

As well they should be :D

[Ducimus]

Looking at the empty diet pepsi can upon my desk, it says.......

12 FL oz
(355ML)

:rotfl:

[DirtyHarry3033]

Zylark,

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

But I'll stick with Imperial thanks just the same. If nothing else, the speedometer in my car is calibrated both in Imperial and Metric, but the metric scale is very small and I can hardly see it with my poor eyes!

Also, citywide speed limit where I live is 35 mph. That translates to 56.32704 kph which would be a very difficult speed for me to maintain ;) Only option would be to round it down to exactly 55 kph which is only 34.17541 mph - everywhere I went it would take me longer to get there, and it takes too long already :hmm:

Could be worse I guess, my understanding is that at one time the "foot" was based on the length of the organ at the end of the current monarch's leg, and I guess that (for a time anyway) with every change of monarchy, the definition of the "foot" would change...

[DirtyHarry3033]

Looking at the empty diet pepsi can upon my desk, it says.......

12 FL oz
(355ML)

:rotfl:
Damn, Ducimus!!!! Those worthless b*stards at Pepsi failed to divide by 1000 to get the "correct" number in Liters... I think a class-action lawsuit is in order :o

<edit>

I know why they did it... Imagine yourself looking at two products in identical-sized containers - one says it contains 0.355 of the product, and the other says it contains 355 of the product. Which do you buy? The bigger one!!! We Americans are convinced that bigger is better, so the bigger number wins, right?

[BBury]

[quote=Ducimus]Looking at the empty diet pepsi can upon
I know why they did it... Imagine yourself looking at two products in identical-sized containers - one says it contains 0.355 of the product, and the other says it contains 355 of the product. Which do you buy? The bigger one!!! We Americans are convinced that bigger is better, so the bigger number wins, right?

Yes, getting "20 to life" is much better than "5 with parole"...hehehehe :D

[Ducimus]

>>We Americans are convinced that bigger is better, so the bigger number wins, right?

I think its a given that everyone thinks of a can of soda as 12 oz Then thers beer, that comes in 12 oz cans or the "tall boys", what are they, 42 oz?

And yet, when it comes to bottles of soda, immediatly a "2 liter bottle" of pepsi comes to mind. :lol: How quickly we change from one system to the other in our daily lives.

[zylark]

Nonononono, beer comes in 33cl (1/3 of a liter and glass bottles) and 50cl (half a liter in alu-cans). Trust me, I know beer :D

Well, around here it does anyways :up:

[Lagger123987]

Metric :rock: A$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

[Payoff]

My biggest gripe is when the W.O. gives me nearest visual contact in feet. "Bearing 025, Range 14'108 sir" I'm thinking with these skills this guy has far more important things he can be doing for the cause & maybe the new guy will just give me good ol American yards.

[MaxT.dk]

Stop being ignorant like
- Americans using imperial
- British driving on the wrong side of the road
and be "normal" as the rest of the world!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[joea]

Stop being ignorant like
- Americans using imperial
- British driving on the wrong side of the road
and be "normal" as the rest of the world!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Maybe they are ignorant today ... but so is that joke. As I posted several times already the USN used imperial in WWII, or did you not know that? :nope:

THe only reason some are using metric is because the game does not convert properly (I am not sure it is that bad) but to be realistic you sohuld use imperial, and metric when playing SH3.

If some of you were in a history class, I'd fail you. :p

[NefariousKoel]

Well, after going metric momentarily, I've switched back to Imperial because it just wasn't right driving an american boat and using meters. :shifty:

I'll just continue to move that Stadimeter down further on the image and estimate where it should probably be.;)

[DirtyHarry3033]

Well, after going metric momentarily, I've switched back to Imperial because it just wasn't right driving an american boat and using meters. :shifty:

I'll just continue to move that Stadimeter down further on the image and estimate where it should probably be.;)
I can understand that! Hearing my diving officer reporting "Depth 30 meters!" would not only be wrong, I would probably only hear the "30" part and (thinking in feet as I should...) order "Make your depth 250!" only to hear the sound of my pressure hull being crushed like an eggshell :huh:

Nefarious, have you looked at Mav87th's Cameras.dat mod?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=525732#post525732

Might fix your Stadimeter issues - he says it modifies the magnification level for the Observation scope so that it works with Kim Ronhof's Range Calculator SH1 whiz-wheel. I built one of those wheels this week and it's nice but just don't work with default scope mags in SH4. If the mod does what he says, it should be just the ticket for accurate ranges!

I d/l'ed it today but haven't tried it yet. You can get Kim's wheels here if you don't already have 'em:

http://www.subsowespac.org/silent_hunter_mods.shtml

Search for:

Kim Ronhof's Manual Tools With Guide

and you'll find it.

Regards,

DH

[wstaub]

I went and switched to Metric and found manual targeting easier

[NefariousKoel]

Thanks Dirty.

However, I've been using the length of the ship to estimate it's speed and I don't think a magnification will fix the Stadimeter output, but I'm hoping.:)

[DirtyHarry3033]

Thanks Dirty.

However, I've been using the length of the ship to estimate it's speed and I don't think a magnification will fix the Stadimeter output, but I'm hoping.:)
Hmm, think you mis-understood. What I'm referring to does nothing to fix the Stadimeter bugs. What I was referring to is Kim Rohnof's Range Calculator whiz-wheel that he made for SH1 way back when.

It's got two wheels, outer one representing the "tic marks" in the scope, and inner one representing mast head height plus ranges for 1x, 2x, 4x and 8x magnification thru the periscope.

Once you've printed it and laminated it and assembled it, what you do is put the scope on the ship with the horizontal line on the waterline, then count the number of "tic marks" to the top of the masthead as seen thru the scope.

Then you move the inner wheel so that the mast head height in feet, of your target is aligned with the number of "tics" you observed.

Finally, you move the clear "alignment tool" to line up with the "2.0" tic mark on the outer wheel and read the range to target (via the appropriate magnification scale) on the inner wheel.

The problem with it is, SH4's magnification is supposedly totally screwed up. (and also the % of a degree per tic mark on the scope) The mod I mentioned supposedly fixes this so that you can get accurate ranges using this wheel.

As it is, the wheel seems to work great with 1x magnification thru the observation scope. Very accurate for close targets, but then 1x mag isn't optimal for distant ones... If the mod does what it says, it will be exciting to say the least!

Do yourself a favor, D/L Kim's package that I linked to and read his manual. It might get you a little excited about the possibilities :up:

When I get back to port, I'll put the cameras.dat mod on and report how well it works!

DH

[NefariousKoel]

Ahh!

I haven't gone as far to whip up a whiz-wheel. I've been a lazy A-D-D simmer thus far since it's been working. Perhaps when I feel like experimenting I will give it a shot.

wstaub has it right, though, manual is easier on metric ... since the range values are correct, of course. :shifty:

[malkuth74]

I might change back I'm just so use to SHIII and using metric that its hard to use Imp and get the right distances etc.