Ever feel a bit cheated by SH3?

[Vacillator]

After an hour and a half infiltrating a convoy with at least 5 escorts, I hit two whale factory ships with 2 torps each and a large merch with my bow tube. I then went to 100 metres depth, silent running at 1kt. One of the escorts pinged me and dropped three lots of depth charges but they were quite far away perhaps due to a couple of course changes. The two whalers then sank (for a nice 25000+ tons).

Then the cheated feeling! The escort dropped a fourth set of charges and they exploded some distance away, but just then my screen locked and my sound looped. I could get out of SH3 using the Windows key so I brought up the Task Manager. This showed SH3 at 0.9Gig memory use and that it was not responding. It also said I was at 100% CPU use with a page file of 1.28Gig (I have 2 Gig of RAM).

Going back to SH3 by clicking it in the task bar only got me to the locked screen again. Eventually I had to turn off the power, losing my hard-earned tonnage.

Can anyone comment on whether this is likely to be a hardware problem or software? I posted some time ago with similar problems and eventually ruled out GWX as a possible offender, but I'm still getting these locks fairly frequently. Mostly they happen if I've paused and left SH3 for more than just a few minutes. When I come back I'm locked!

[Canovaro]

Could it be that it has anything to do with screen savers or power/energy management/hardware going asleep?

[Reece]

I get that every now & then, or a complete reboot! kinda cheeses ya off when you've been on for a couple of hours without saving, but that's life!:D
Often this is caused by some other small program (TSR) running in the background looking for a respose .... you just get a black screen & locks! I probably get it once every half dozen patrols!:yep:

[Vacillator]

Could it be that it has anything to do with screen savers or power/energy management/hardware going asleep?

I thought of that for the 'pause and go away scenario' and checked my settings. I have everything like that set to 'Never'.

As for active game scenario when I'm being depth charged, it shouldn't be going to sleep.

Reece, I do have a lot of minor programs running in the background so perhaps I should disconnect from the Internet and disable as much as I can to see if that fixes the issue...

Thanks guys. Another other suggestions?

[rb4door]

I normally go about 8 or 9 patrols where the game runs fine (GWX), then I will get a patrol (particular when I get thrown out of high TC due to being attacked or spotting a ship) and the music starts its dreaded loop - next thing i'm looking at my desktop without a trace of SH3 being played for the last 5 hours! :damn:

I normally crack the sh*ts after the game does that to me and I wont play it for a couple days. Always end making up and moving on however :up:

[nikbear]

Got exactly the same thing in my black sea mission yesterday,sank 2 merchants,1 medium tanker,1 DD escort urugan class,all with magnetics,I was on a roll:up: feeling pretty pleased with myself and as I lined up to shoot the last escort down the throat with my T3 magnetic I thought "what can go wrong".The eel went off straight and true,the escort was still on his suicide drive towards me and just as the eel passed under him and went off,the crew cheered,the event cam popped up,"YES" I shouted,then the black screen of death appeared:damn: the microsoft window telling me it had to close SHIII:cry: and this was the error message

error signature appname:sh3.exe appver1.4.0.1 mod name:sh3sim.act mod ver 0.0.0.0 offset0001c289 I havent a clue what it means just that I was gutted:nope:

[maillemaker]

Yeah I get this all the time, too, glad I saw this thread.

Usually I get the black screen/crashout when I either have just fired a torpedo, or just as it hits the target.

Steve

[Reece]

@maillemaker, now that sounds like an in-game problem, probably a mod not installed correctly or a combination of 2 super mods, please give details.:yep:

[Vacillator]

Well at least I'm not the only one! :hmm:

Most likely (for my particular active rather than paused game problem) still seems to be something in the background trying to do something.

Having said that, are the Task Manager conditions and values I quoted in the first post consistent with that? I don't know. :doh:

[johnm]

I regularly get a 'freeze-up' complete with sound looping. After about 10-15 secs it frees up and the game continues normally.

As my machine is fairly border-line in spec, I'd always thought it was SHIII - garbage collection. You know, where the program releases used memory etc. The early 'Basic' used to be terrible for this.

maybe I should start panicking? :hmm:

[Canovaro]

To some of you: if your computer falls out completely that's usually when your cpu or other hardware gets to warm.

[Vacillator]

I regularly get a 'freeze-up' complete with sound looping. After about 10-15 secs it frees up and the game continues normally.

As my machine is fairly border-line in spec, I'd always thought it was SHIII - garbage collection. You know, where the program releases used memory etc. The early 'Basic' used to be terrible for this.

maybe I should start panicking? :hmm:

John, I get this as well and like you I think it's 'normal' SH3 activity. Particular circumstances can be under high TC when the prog has to track lots of objects very quickly or near a convoy.

[Vacillator]

To some of you: if your computer falls out completely that's usually when your cpu or other hardware gets to warm.

Good point Canovaro :yep:. This fits with my reasoning that as I was 'only' freezing not totally rebooting, it was likely to be software, conflicts with other programs etc. rather than overheating.

[Jimbuna]

Free up as much resources as you can by switching off all background utilities (including ant virus) if your not surfing whilst sailing :yep:

[KeybdFlyer]

"with a page file of 1.28Gig (I have 2 Gig of RAM)" If I'm reading that right, your Page File size is set a little too small. I'm not saying that's your problem, because it probably isn't, but the Page File should be set to 1.5x the amount of onboard memory, or about 3070Mb for your 2Gb RAM. Might be worthwhile setting it "just because", to ease the load a little.

[maillemaker]

@maillemaker, now that sounds like an in-game problem, probably a mod not installed correctly or a combination of 2 super mods, please give details.:yep:

Nah, I've been playing stock for about 2 months, and had it plenty of times during the time of being stock. I only installed SH3C last week, and GWX yesterday.

[Happy Times]

I sunk two whale factory ships also in one convoy but got away easy.
Funny thing is that the next convoy also had two whale factory ships, is this a little bit over the top:hmm:

[XanderF]

Hardware

To test CPU, run Orthos SP2004 (http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/beta2.htm). It has a few options, you should first stress CPU. Let it run a good long time with you not doing anything on the PC. 24 hours. Any errors or crashes, you know immediately what the problem is - CPU.
If that passes, switch it to stress CPU and RAM. Let that run 24 hours. If THIS fails where the first didn't...it's a much more difficult thing to troubleshoot. Problem is CPU, ram, mobo, or some other hardware device.
If that passes, you want to look at the video card. Download 3dMark03 (http://www.futuremark.com/products/3dmark03/) (which free version allows looping). Set it to run just the "game tests" (I think you can define that in the free version), and loop infinitely. It's not ENTIRELY a stable benchmark, so it won't run 24 hours without failing, but if it fails within 6 hours, you probably have video card issues.

[Heibges]

As with all PC games, your mantra should be "Save Often".

I've lost 40 turns before playing Rome Total War, and not been happy. :nope:

I usually save every 30 minutes or so playing SH3, but I never save while submerged.

[Sailor Steve]

And not only games. My first (and worst) lesson came after slaving more than an hour on a drawing I was working on, only to have a power outage kill the whole thing. I now live by the mantra: "Save, save, and save again. Oh, and save it one more time, for luck."

[KeptinCranky]

heh, power outages....gah!

I usually don't save in game...goes with Dead is Dead for me, except when things like work or acute need for sleep force me to.

I'm running sh3 on way underpowered hardware (okay graphics card is fairly new and 1 gig of memory) but the rest is from 2002 since my main pc decided to fry...

to prevent crashes and such I make sure I have no extra programs running, I defragment my harddrive regularly and I don't use time compression above 256

I can run GWX on an AMD k6 1,7ghz processor with only minor stutter in harbors

what your problem looks like (but I'm no expert) is some other program interfering, from personal experience I tend to blame security software but that's just a guess

[XanderF]

This post will mirror some of the my previous, but I'm just copying it whole-cloth from elsewhere.

I think this will help narrow down your issue!

Unfortunately, I have nothing to add that's helpful, except that it has to be a probem with your comp. I've had SH3 since day one and it has never crashed. Not once. It's the most stable program I've owned.

I'll second that never a crash :know:

Same here. I play a LOT of games - I mean, LOTS, and every one is far more unstable than Sh3. (Well, not EVERY one. The 2d adventure games like 'Syberia', et al, are rock-solid stable. And I've never had anything from LucasArts crash. That puts them on the same league as Sh3, though - never crashed once. 'Oblivion' is freaking BUGGY, though, in comparison.)

To whit, the problem is almost 100% certainly your PC. But I'm a techy by trade, so just saying "works here" isn't enough for me. :p

And now, for some more grouping and helpfulness ;):

Section 1 - Make sure your software environment is not in trouble

Easily, the most common affliction of general use PCs is Spyware/Malware/viruses. Ad Aware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/) is free, and nabs most of them. It doesn't run interactively, though, so periodically let it run and do its thing, and use something like Windows Defender (http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx) for 24/7 use.
The most common software instability in GAMING systems is audio or video codecs that get into the DirectX decoders group. I have no idea how tweaks guides keep missing this (maybe because so many people who think they are 'smarter than Windows' tend to engage in piracy on the side, and a cornucopia of codecs are pretty much required for viewing of most torrent movies and audio). FFDSHOW, for example, causes an ENORMOUS amount of stability issues with games. So much so that the release notes for 'Oblivion' (http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/updates_patchnotes6.htm) specifically mention it. Run DXDIAG.exe in Windows and check the section "DirectShow Filters" especially - a lot of nonstandard CODECS in that list can cause issues. Try removing these from your 'Add/Remove' programs. FFDSHOW, the Nero Codecs (ESPECIALLY! - deleting the folder "C:/Program Files/Common Files/Ahead/DSFilter" breaks nothing in Nero and improved stability SUBSTANTIALLY for me in 'Oblivion')Section 2 - Steps to verify and troubleshoot the component you need to fix:

Download Orthos SP2004 (http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/beta2.htm). This performs rather intense formula computations and compares acquired results vs expected returns to determine single-bit errors in computing. Run the test for 'CPU and memory' overnight. Then try just maxing out the CPU for the following night. If either test fails or returns any warnings - YOUR CPU OR RAM ARE BAD. No exceptions. If these things are retuning math errors at ANY point, the system is in a disastrous state.
Download 3dMark03 (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=576) (yes, there are two newer versions, but neither allows infinite looping of the test unless you buy them. Certainly, 3dMark06 is a more stressful test and better indicator of stability on higher-end systems. You should, in any case, ALWAYS be able to run all the way through either test with no issues). Select the first 4 tests to run, and set it to keep looping them, and just let that run overnight. This tests for video card hardware or video driver issues. Note that, if you have a higher-end video card - Radeon X800/GeForce 6800 or better - you will want to enable 4xAA to stress it more.
Finally, a PSU test. Basically, just try to use every part as much as possible. Run Orthos SP2004 (above) with a full-screen 3d app like RTHDRIBL (http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/). Note that RTHDRIBL has an FPS counter, make sure you keep kicking the FSAA up (or down) until your FPS is averaging in the 20s. Let this run overnight.Not perfect tests, but these all use freely available products that ARE stable. If any of these crash, result in system reboots, blue screens, CTDs, etc...you have a buggy OS or hardware issues, and we can work on diagnosing them from that point.

Section 3 - additional reading

If you want more reading, there is a handy article on the 'Oblivion' forums that covers improving stability in some detail (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=561101) (I keep coming back to that game because it's UNBELIEVABLY unstable. If you can get that game even more-or-less stable, then pretty much anything else will be rock-solid.) Side note - that article mentions ScanDisk and Disk Defrag. These are ABSOLUTELY a good idea...once you know your CPU and RAM checks out. There is nothing that will completely corrupt an OS installation faster than running ScanDisk with a CPU throwing bit errors all over the place.

Let us know how this testing goes! Seriously, Sh3 - even with GWX, Sh3Gen, and Sh3 Commander (my set of mods) - IS one of the most stable titles I have (as in, 'in the list of 100% rock-solid games'), and I am confident we can get you to this point!

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

If you have a lot of extra hard drive space, you can increase the size of your Pagefile which acts as Virtual Memory for high resource applications that drain your system. With a lot of background processes running on your OS, sometimes your system runs out of memory when you run complex 3D games and causes nasty CTD's. This can be sorted with a Pagefile increase, which also helps your comp to run smoother and better. Here's how to do it:

1)Start Menu>Control Panel>System (This is using Windows Classic View instead of Category View)
2)Go to the Advanced tab and click the Settings button under Performance
3)Click the Advanced tab in the new window and click the Change button at the bottom
4)Before you increase or decrease your Pagefile/Virtual Memory you must first clear it. Opposite the Set button is an option labelled No Paging File. Click it and Click Set.
5)Restart your computer and follow steps 1-3 as described above.
6)Now that you've cleared your Pagefile and restarted, you can specifiy an amount of hard drive space to be set aside and used as Virtual Memory. Click Custom Size and in the Initial Size (MB) box enter the minimum, in Megabytes you would like to assign. For reference mine is 5000.
7)Now set a value in the Maximum Size (MB) box, again in Megabytes. For reference mine is 10000.
8)Now click Set, Ok, Ok, Apply and Ok and restart your comp once more for the changes to take effect.

By doing this, you will have set the minimum amount of Virtual Memory to 5000MB or 5GB, and the maximum to 10000MB or 10GB. You can of course use more or less, depending on the size of your hard drive amongst other things. I recommend uninstalling and deleting any software and/or files that you don't want/need, cleaning the registry and defragging your HD along with this process to free up HD space and minimise loading times in general. There are a number of guides available online detailing how to optimise and get the most out of your hardware. I highly recommend the TweakGuides Tweaking Companion available at the link below.

http://www.tweakguides.com/

It's written in layman's terms, and provides a large number of optimisation processes to greatly speed up system performance while increasing system stability at the same time. It also includes links to many handy utilities to help look after your system and explains how to use them aswell.

[Vacillator]

Wow, a lot to reply to! Thanks all and particularly Karl-Heinz and XanderF.

Some things mentioned I'm already doing like defrag, reg cleaning etc. (learned from years of Il2 and the excellent Community Help forum over there).

I have probably too many 'safety' progs running: Windows Defender, Ad-aware, Spybot S&D, McAfee VirusScan, Spyware Blaster. As mentioned, not having these can cause problems but I also wonder whether they occasionally try to do something and clash with what I'm doing...

I am always connected to the internet via broadband so any of the auto-updates (such as Windows) could also try and do something in the background.

k-HJ, will look into my pagefile size as I vaguely recall adjusting in the past. Maybe I got it wrong!

XanderF, your bit about codecs is very interesting, particulalry as I have Nero. Will look into this as well. It's also about time I tested my hardware in the way you describe as I haven't done this for a couple of years.

On some of the other points, regular saving is good, but not while you're at periscope depth infiltrating a convoy!

@Happy Times - I too have seen (and sunk :yep:) a lot of whale factory ships, like two or three in most convoys recently. In real life there weren't that many of them compared to other types, so perhaps there is a minor problem with their random gerneration. However, they do give nice tonnage and seem to sink fairly readily ;).

[maillemaker]

Well, I think it may have been a thermal issue. Taking you guys' advice, last night I stopped by Radio Shack and picked up a couple of cans of compressed air (or whatever the hell is in them) and hosed down all my chips in my PC. I made it through a whole night's worth of SH3, but the game crashed as I was exiting the game. At least I had no graphics artifacts.

[nikbear]

Don't know what the problem is now but got another black screen of death,second in 2 days.uptill this I had'nt had one for many weeks:cry: I'm a bit worried to say the least.:eek:

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

Wow, a lot to reply to! Thanks all and particularly Karl-Heinz and XanderF.

Some things mentioned I'm already doing like defrag, reg cleaning etc. (learned from years of Il2 and the excellent Community Help forum over there).

I have probably too many 'safety' progs running: Windows Defender, Ad-aware, Spybot S&D, McAfee VirusScan, Spyware Blaster. As mentioned, not having these can cause problems but I also wonder whether they occasionally try to do something and clash with what I'm doing...

I am always connected to the internet via broadband so any of the auto-updates (such as Windows) could also try and do something in the background.

k-HJ, will look into my pagefile size as I vaguely recall adjusting in the past. Maybe I got it wrong!

XanderF, your bit about codecs is very interesting, particulalry as I have Nero. Will look into this as well. It's also about time I tested my hardware in the way you describe as I haven't done this for a couple of years.

On some of the other points, regular saving is good, but not while you're at periscope depth infiltrating a convoy!

@Happy Times - I too have seen (and sunk :yep:) a lot of whale factory ships, like two or three in most convoys recently. In real life there weren't that many of them compared to other types, so perhaps there is a minor problem with their random gerneration. However, they do give nice tonnage and seem to sink fairly readily ;).
You mention you use a number of programs like AdAware, Spybot etc. Good call! They are invaluable to every system. However, they run in the background and update automatically, which eats into your available RAM. What I've done is to stop them loading on startup using the msconfig prompt command in Start Menu>Run, along with lots of other processes I don't need/use. The only downside to this is having to run scans and update manually, but I generally do that anyway so it's win-win. By reducing the services you don't need, you save on RAM and Virtual Memory, which leads to smoother gameplay and better system stability. I've even gone as far as to optimise/customise Windows XP so it uses less resources. Things like disabling the load up/shutdown music, turning off indexing, turning off thumbnail preview of images. It all adds up in the end.:yep:

If you are interested in any of these, the TweakGuides link above is your only man. However I recommend staying away from overclocking any of your hardware. If all goes well you might get a 5-15% increase in performance and speed, but at the cost of system stability and wear and tear on your parts. At the very least this should not be attempted unless you have a high Watt power supply to take the extra stress and a good cooling system ie case fans, heatsinks and pipes, liquid cooling etc. The overclocked parts run hotter so they need the extra juice from the power supply and the extra cooling from the fans, otherwise you risk burning the crap out of your hardware. I just found it too much of a risk, and that it wasn't very stable.:down:

Anyways, hope this helps somewhat, it certainly did for my comp. Let us know how you get on, or if you need any other advice.:up:

[Vacillator]

turning off thumbnail preview of images.

Yes, I was 'forced' to do this some time ago as the time it took to open my 9.5GB Il2 folder was getting ridiculous. Doing this rectified that problem :yep:.



I recommend staying away from overclocking any of your hardware


Ooops. My ageing 9800XT is sort of overclocked in that it began life as a Pro and I flashed the bios to XT and upped the speeds to XT defaults. However, I also fitted an Arctic Cooler (can't remember exact name I'm afraid), and another case fan. It's been running like that for a couple of years in Il2 which does a good job in stressing everything ;).

Anyway thanks again Karl-Heinz for the suggestions and advice :up:

[Vacillator]

Okay, a small update!

I changed the pagefile size as per Karl-Heinz's instructions, except XP Pro would only let me put a max of 4096 in :hmm:. Whatever! Anyway, since doing that I have had no locks or crashes. Might be coincidence or luck but I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Will post again if anything good or bad happens.

[joemcg]

I was also suffering serious re-boots and crashes as a few of the people before me mentioned. I also followed Karl-Heinz's suggestion of increasing my pagefile size, and have had no problems with SH III w/ GWX 1.03 installed. Thank you for the suggestion :rock: :up: