Some questions on torpedoes for you real sub people...

[Chock]

Okay, no big deal if nobody knows the answer to these, but if someone could enlighten me, it's something I'm curious about.

Although I have stacks of books and material on submarines, one thing they have never actually adequately explained is how the data from the TDC is actually transmitted to the torpedo in the tube in WW2 subs. It's easy to understand how this is done with modern subs, as most modern torpedoes have a wire link or some complicated telemetry gear inside them able to receive data, but when a WW2 torpedo was shut up in the flooded tube, how would it be connected to the TDC in order to update a solution?

I know that there was a mechanical gearing device in the tube somewhere that would turn a gyro setting on the torpedo and this apparently is called a spindle. I'm guessing this thing engaged a bit like a clutch-plate on a car transmission.

But was this spindle thingy on the door or in the tube alongside the torpedo, and was it fully automatic?

Presumably this was the thing that made loading torpedoes take a while, as when you look at torpedo loading times in SH, it seems rather a long time considering all they have to do is crank a handle and slide the thing in a tube (after getting it off a rack obviously). Was it aligning the torpedo with the spindle device that made things take a while, or the lining it up with the tube? Perhaps it was heating up the batteries that took the time?

In Run Silent, Run Deep, it looks like the torpedo guys are manually altering settings on the closed torpedo tubes as the data for the solution is relayed to them, and some other sub movies seem to portray this kind of thing too, with orders being verbally passed along from the conning tower. Anyone know the definitive answer to these puzzles?

Any answers would certainly be interesting and enlightening

Chock :D

[Soundman]

Good Question...I'm just making an assumption, but I think your last paragraph hits home for me. From what I have read anyway. I'm sure someone here can give us a definitive answer.

[perisher]

I can't answer how the spindle engaged, but I would assume it is part of the way along the side of tube. As for the settings being manually set or mechanically set, that depends on the exact type of torpedo, tube and TDC, but as a basic rule, the TDC would normally set the torpedo by means of electro-mechanical links to the spindle. However it could be set manually if necessary.

Torpedo loading took a long time because torpedoes are big and heavy, prior to automated loading systems this took a lot of muscle power to move them and a great deal of skill to keep them under control during the loading moves. Despite the movies, torpedoes were not normally reloaded in action. Normally the sub would withdraw and go deep to reload. If you reload in action and get caught in a d/c attack with a couple of tons of torpedo swinging between the rack and the tube, you've got big problems.

[U-Bones]

If you reload in action and get caught in a d/c attack with a couple of tons of torpedo swinging between the rack and the tube, you've got big problems.

Not to mention the added danger of an open tube.

[mookiemookie]

I believe that it was in the tube. When I loaded the torpedoes in the Cavalla with Neal, we were looking at the holes on the side of the fish and trying to figure out what each one was. I believe these were the gyroangle/speed controls, etc.

[joea]

If you reload in action and get caught in a d/c attack with a couple of tons of torpedo swinging between the rack and the tube, you've got big problems.
Not to mention the added danger of an open tube.

That's why in SH3 at least, I keep a few guys in the TT rooms during action for firing, and keep the rest of the crew rested for reloads when I withdraw. Works differently in SHIV ... anyway yea no reloads in action.

[Snowman999]

Okay, no big deal if nobody knows the answer to these, but if someone could enlighten me, it's something I'm curious about.


http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/tubes/index.htm

Read away.

[Sailor Steve]

Good job Snowman999! Take it right to the source!:rock:

[Chock]

Hey cool, thanks Snowman - good find!

[Snowman999]

Good job Snowman999! Take it right to the source!:rock:

Yes, there will be a test next Tuesday concerning the NSNs of all gaskets, packings, and O-rings. Almost too much detail.

[TripleDaddy]

I really like this part:

As will be shown in following pages of this pamphlet, interlocking devices are fitted to submarine tubes to prevent the simultaneous opening of both breech and muzzle doors. It scarcely seems necessary to point out the suicidal folly of any attempt to defeat the purpose of these interlocking devices.

Who knew the Navy had a sense of humor?

[Snowman999]

I really like this part:

As will be shown in following pages of this pamphlet, interlocking devices are fitted to submarine tubes to prevent the simultaneous opening of both breech and muzzle doors. It scarcely seems necessary to point out the suicidal folly of any attempt to defeat the purpose of these interlocking devices.

Who knew the Navy had a sense of humor?

Not "any attempt." I've got a 35mm photo looking out our #3 tube into the drydock.

Every torpedoman I ever knew bragged about knowing how to defeat the interlocks. First thing they learned, so they would know if anybody else was trying to defeat the interlocks. People do go insane on patrol occassionally.

[McBeck]

Okay, no big deal if nobody knows the answer to these, but if someone could enlighten me, it's something I'm curious about.

Although I have stacks of books and material on submarines, one thing they have never actually adequately explained is how the data from the TDC is actually transmitted to the torpedo in the tube in WW2 subs. It's easy to understand how this is done with modern subs, as most modern torpedoes have a wire link or some complicated telemetry gear inside them able to receive data, but when a WW2 torpedo was shut up in the flooded tube, how would it be connected to the TDC in order to update a solution?

I know that there was a mechanical gearing device in the tube somewhere that would turn a gyro setting on the torpedo and this apparently is called a spindle. I'm guessing this thing engaged a bit like a clutch-plate on a car transmission.

But was this spindle thingy on the door or in the tube alongside the torpedo, and was it fully automatic?

Presumably this was the thing that made loading torpedoes take a while, as when you look at torpedo loading times in SH, it seems rather a long time considering all they have to do is crank a handle and slide the thing in a tube (after getting it off a rack obviously). Was it aligning the torpedo with the spindle device that made things take a while, or the lining it up with the tube? Perhaps it was heating up the batteries that took the time?

In Run Silent, Run Deep, it looks like the torpedo guys are manually altering settings on the closed torpedo tubes as the data for the solution is relayed to them, and some other sub movies seem to portray this kind of thing too, with orders being verbally passed along from the conning tower. Anyone know the definitive answer to these puzzles?

Any answers would certainly be interesting and enlightening

Chock :DAs far as I remember the german design would include metal contacts inside the tube, so information (settings) could be transfered to the torpedo, while it was inside the tube.

[Keelbuster]

omg - i love this read! Thx!

[TripleDaddy]

I really like this part:

As will be shown in following pages of this pamphlet, interlocking devices are fitted to submarine tubes to prevent the simultaneous opening of both breech and muzzle doors. It scarcely seems necessary to point out the suicidal folly of any attempt to defeat the purpose of these interlocking devices.

Who knew the Navy had a sense of humor?

Not "any attempt." I've got a 35mm photo looking out our #3 tube into the drydock.

Every torpedoman I ever knew bragged about knowing how to defeat the interlocks. First thing they learned, so they would know if anybody else was trying to defeat the interlocks. People do go insane on patrol occassionally.

Yikes...

[Snowman999]

Every torpedoman I ever knew bragged about knowing how to defeat the interlocks. First thing they learned, so they would know if anybody else was trying to defeat the interlocks. People do go insane on patrol occassionally.

Yikes...


Happened to a friend of mine on a Groton SSBN. He tried to use the forward escape trunk to exit while on patrol. Took several men to hold him down while the doc shot him up and restrained him. They were near the coast so they medevaced him to Groton and a padded room. Turned out he had a paranoid reaction to the claustaphobia he repressed for two months. As soon as he got ashore he was fine. Medically retired.

It's not talked about much but during the Cold War boomers had all sorts of contingency plans for WWIII to stay down for extended periods. One of my collateral duties was bulk medicinal custodian. We had a fantastic amount of injectible valium, sodium pentathol, thorazine, etc. Enough to put half the crew in their bunks breathing shallow and not eating groceries.

And speaking of groceries I, the food service officer, had to maintain plans to stretch the food to VERY long endurance; about 1100 calories a day. We would have run out of spare parts before we starved.

[TripleDaddy]

Every torpedoman I ever knew bragged about knowing how to defeat the interlocks. First thing they learned, so they would know if anybody else was trying to defeat the interlocks. People do go insane on patrol occassionally.

Yikes...


Happened to a friend of mine on a Groton SSBN. He tried to use the forward escape trunk to exit while on patrol. Took several men to hold him down while the doc shot him up and restrained him. They were near the coast so they medevaced him to Groton and a padded room. Turned out he had a paranoid reaction to the claustaphobia he repressed for two months. As soon as he got ashore he was fine. Medically retired.

It's not talked about much but during the Cold War boomers had all sorts of contingency plans for WWIII to stay down for extended periods. One of my collateral duties was bulk medicinal custodian. We had a fantastic amount of injectible valium, sodium pentathol, thorazine, etc. Enough to put half the crew in their bunks breathing shallow and not eating groceries.

And speaking of groceries I, the food service officer, had to maintain plans to stretch the food to VERY long endurance; about 1100 calories a day. We would have run out of spare parts before we starved.

And if you tried to write a book with that kind of plot, people would think you were nuts...

[Snowman999]

It's not talked about much but during the Cold War boomers had all sorts of contingency plans for WWIII to stay down for extended periods. One of my collateral duties was bulk medicinal custodian. We had a fantastic amount of injectible valium, sodium pentathol, thorazine, etc. Enough to put half the crew in their bunks breathing shallow and not eating groceries.

And speaking of groceries I, the food service officer, had to maintain plans to stretch the food to VERY long endurance; about 1100 calories a day. We would have run out of spare parts before we starved.

And if you tried to write a book with that kind of plot, people would think you were nuts...
[/QUOTE]

And yet, folks believed "Crimson Tide" was real. Go figure . . .

[Skubber]

To Snowman999: Great post!

It only goes to reveal the depths of my malady that I am actually reading this pamphlet.

I guess the U-boat commader's manual wasn't enough. :doh: