When did this become OK?

[Diggs]

I like most of the people here love the sub game concept but as i've been searching around the forums, reading what people have to say, the basic humdrum seems to be... Why does this happen? Is this a bug? Is this happening to anyone else? Quite frankly, i'm a little angry. When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past? Dont get me wrong....I love this game and see it's potential but I dont believe I should have to bend over and grab my ankles for $50+ dollars. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times gentlemen and if no one does anything about it, it will only get worse.

[GakunGak]

I like most of the people here love the sub game concept but as i've been searching around the forums, reading what people have to say, the basic humdrum seems to be... Why does this happen? Is this a bug? Is this happening to anyone else? Quite frankly, i'm a little angry. When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past? Dont get me wrong....I love this game and see it's potential but I dont believe I should have to bend over and grab my ankles for $50+ dollars. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times gentlemen and if no one does anything about it, it will only get worse.
Since when it was ok for the company like Ubi to rush the devs to end the game?
You have a time line, a final release date, and it's not the same as STALKER, and you have to sacrifice something to do other... Basically, despite the bugs and what not, having this product is the dream... Even here the product was wanted badly and that's why you get "a faulty product".... Needless to say, I think the devs deserve at least BRAVO for a wonderfull job they did, but it's not their fault for having so litle time as you need:
1. Research
2. Technical consulting
3. Model designing
4. Materials, war footage to analyze
5. Compiling and drawing
6. Textures
7. Scripts
8. Men need to eat/sleep/drink....
And many other stuff and everything is so... To the point, it has serious bugs, many of them fixed, but we wanted it fast, we wanted it bad and Ubi wanted money, so we got it. We were bitching/moaning about release date, now we bitch/moan about "technical dificulties"... WTF? The devs did a fantastic job, as would Ali G would said RESPECT or Borat GREAT SUCESS..:up:
We wait for a while, get a GWX for SH4 and we are set....
For the end, I think UBI wasted our trust for the next serial of Silent Hunter, but we are yet to see...
And over and over again, it should be nuke sim...

[Calbeck]

Yet another "this game isn't more than 90% perfect out of the box, I want a refund" thread?

I've been playing sub sims since GATO. There hasn't BEEN a sub game that was better than SH4 at launch. And we aren't talking about a game that has THAT many issues, most of which are CTDs clearly related to hardware drivers the devs have no control over.

Aside from a couple of cases of goofball physics (flying subs, submerged enemies), the game itself kicks significant amounts of @$$. :arrgh!:

[GakunGak]

Yet another "this game isn't more than 90% perfect out of the box, I want a refund" thread?

I've been playing sub sims since GATO. There hasn't BEEN a sub game that was better than SH4 at launch. And we aren't talking about a game that has THAT many issues, most of which are CTDs clearly related to hardware drivers the devs have no control over.

Aside from a couple of cases of goofball physics (flying subs, submerged enemies), the game itself kicks significant amounts of @$$. :arrgh!:

1. One from too many....
Agree 100%, as she really kicks asses, very close to SH3 GWX 1.03....:|\\

[Diggs]

No fingers being pointed at any one person, more at UBI. I guess when you want it bad you get it bad. But that doesnt make it ok. I cant help but feel like ubisoft is pushing the boundrys by selling an unfinished product and lots of other large corperations are taking notes on the outcome of this and in the not so distant future, we will see more of this bulls__t.

[heartc]

Yet another "this game isn't more than 90% perfect out of the box, I want a refund" thread?


No, not quite -

Why does this happen? Is this a bug? Is this happening to anyone else? Quite frankly, i'm a little angry. When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?

- This time it is a "this game isn't more than 90% perfect out of the box, hence they ought to go to jail!" thread. Anyway, I don't think someone registers only to make such drivel his first post. It wouldn't be anything new and I wouldn't be surprised if a number of crybabys would register new accounts to lend more "weight" to their "arguments".

[sqk7744]

Long walk...
...Short Pier

[mookiemookie]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've shown today how ireparable damage has been done to my client's video gaming experience due to the gross negligence of the Ubisoft development team. Silent Hunter 4 was my client's only hope to live a full and meaningful life. That hope has been stomped out by things such as a transparant watch crew when environmental effects are turned on, iffy convoy AI and the most egregious and horrible of them all...the "assigned to the Pearl Harbor" grammar error. If you don't convict these men today, then the gross travesty of having pc games ship with bugs will continue. I urge you to do the right thing."

:rotfl::roll:

[GakunGak]

No fingers being pointed at any one person, more at UBI. I guess when you want it bad you get it bad. But that doesnt make it ok. I cant help but feel like ubisoft is pushing the boundrys by selling an unfinished product and lots of other large corperations are taking notes on the outcome of this and in the not so distant future, we will see more of this bulls__t.
That's more I like it....:lol:
But anyway, we may have to be patient for the patches and then the mods are gonna "finish" the product...:rock:

[Diggs]

Actually, it is my first post. And a consumer should demand 100% in a product. Judging by the tone of your reply I would guess that you have some kind of emotional investment in this game. Don't get too butthurt over it...some people dont settle and not everyone is used to kneeling down and recieving copious amounts of SEAMEN like yourself. Pun Intended!

[GakunGak]

I didn't mean to be rude or something, I just wanted to say that after 1.2 patch, the game is more playable than before and you are 100% right to demand full working product, but hey, we have the game.

[heartc]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've shown today how ireparable damage has been done to my client's video gaming experience due to the gross negligence of the Ubisoft development team. Silent Hunter 4 was my client's only hope to live a full and meaningful life. That hope has been stomped out by things such as a transparant watch crew when environmental effects are turned on, iffy convoy AI and the most egregious and horrible of them all...the "assigned to the Pearl Harbor" grammar error. If you don't convict these men today, then the gross travesty of having pc games ship with bugs will continue. I urge you to do the right thing."

:rotfl::roll:

Yeah, I had *just* that mental image in my head lol. :rotfl::rotfl:

[GakunGak]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've shown today how ireparable damage has been done to my client's video gaming experience due to the gross negligence of the Ubisoft development team. Silent Hunter 4 was my client's only hope to live a full and meaningful life. That hope has been stomped out by things such as a transparant watch crew when environmental effects are turned on, iffy convoy AI and the most egregious and horrible of them all...the "assigned to the Pearl Harbor" grammar error. If you don't convict these men today, then the gross travesty of having pc games ship with bugs will continue. I urge you to do the right thing."

:rotfl::roll:

Yeah, I had *just* that mental image in my head lol. :rotfl::rotfl:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[darius359au]

Actually, it is my first post. And a consumer should demand 100% in a product. Judging by the tone of your reply I would guess that you have some kind of emotional investment in this game. Don't get too butthurt over it...some people dont settle and not everyone is used to kneeling down and recieving copious amounts of SEAMEN like yourself. Pun Intended!

*Sighs* why do these's kinda threads always end up having someone getting upset and throwing insults at people that dont agree with them or have a different opinion:down:

[GakunGak]

In the good old days I would use a good bottle of scotch and a handgun to blow my head off....
Times are changing fast....:smug:

[Diggs]

Darious, you are right. For the rest of you, forgive me for making a statement against the company that you hope to work for...if they would only return your numerous calls...... It was foolish of me and I will go and commit suicide now!:D Remind me never to expect quality, and also to take it on the chin whenever possible! Cool, now I am just like you guys.

[heartc]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?

kneeling down and recieving copious amounts of SEAMEN like yourself

Judging by the tone of your reply I would guess that you have some kind of emotional investment in this game.

Awesome. This thread is fun. :rotfl:

[GakunGak]

Darious, you are right. For the rest of you, forgive me for making a statement against the company that you hope to work for...if they would only return your numerous calls...... It was foolish of me and I will go and commit suicide now!:D
Wait, can I have your extra HDD, i'm running low on space?:arrgh!:

[DirtyHarry3033]

Darious, you are right. For the rest of you, forgive me for making a statement against the company that you hope to work for...if they would only return your numerous calls...... It was foolish of me and I will go and commit suicide now!:D Remind me never to expect quality, and also to take it on the chin whenever possible! Cool, now I am just like you guys.
Diggs, take a chill pill ;) It's only a game, ya know? And a pretty damn good one at that, and with another patch (or hopefully 2 if we're lucky) plus the work the modders are doing for us, it's gonna be awesome!

Actually, it is my first post. And a consumer should demand 100% in a product. Judging by the tone of your reply I would guess that you have some kind of emotional investment in this game. Don't get too butthurt over it...some people dont settle and not everyone is used to kneeling down and recieving copious amounts of SEAMEN like yourself. Pun Intended!
Sure the consumer should demand 100%. But trust me, no consumer is ever gonna get 100% - that is a fact of life since no one is perfect. If you go out and spend $25k on a new Ford, it's gonna have problems. If you spend $250k on a new Bentley, it's gonna have problems. At least the problems in the $50 game you bought won't put you at risk of dying, the way a "bug" in a car might...

Don't know if you write code or not, but I do, for my living. I write the simple sh*t, business apps. Accuracy is mandatory in my coding, but the code is so simple it's pathetic, so accuracy isn't that hard to accomplish.

But when I think about games like SH4, and the unimaginable amount of work it takes, and the millions of bugs that can crop up, and the daunting task of squashing them, well all I can think is that it's a wonder it works at all. I couldn't do it, I know that for a fact. Can you?

Be patient. Wait for the next patch. Try out some of the mods, they fix a lot of problems/shortcomings. Things will get better, trust me!

Good hunting :up:

DH

[DirtyHarry3033]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've shown today how ireparable damage has been done to my client's video gaming experience due to the gross negligence of the Ubisoft development team. Silent Hunter 4 was my client's only hope to live a full and meaningful life. That hope has been stomped out by things such as a transparant watch crew when environmental effects are turned on, iffy convoy AI and the most egregious and horrible of them all...the "assigned to the Pearl Harbor" grammar error. If you don't convict these men today, then the gross travesty of having pc games ship with bugs will continue. I urge you to do the right thing."

:rotfl::roll:
:rotfl:That was choice!!! Are you a lawyer IRL by any chance? You outta be...

[dean_acheson]

Actually, it is my first post. And a consumer should demand 100% in a product. Judging by the tone of your reply I would guess that you have some kind of emotional investment in this game. Don't get too butthurt over it...some people dont settle and not everyone is used to kneeling down and recieving copious amounts of SEAMEN like yourself. Pun Intended!

another super constructive set of posts.....

[GakunGak]

Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've shown today how ireparable damage has been done to my client's video gaming experience due to the gross negligence of the Ubisoft development team. Silent Hunter 4 was my client's only hope to live a full and meaningful life. That hope has been stomped out by things such as a transparant watch crew when environmental effects are turned on, iffy convoy AI and the most egregious and horrible of them all...the "assigned to the Pearl Harbor" grammar error. If you don't convict these men today, then the gross travesty of having pc games ship with bugs will continue. I urge you to do the right thing."

:rotfl::roll:
:rotfl:That was choice!!! Are you a lawyer IRL by any chance? You outta be...
He is probably the one from these kind... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil%27s_Advocate_%28film%29
Good movie, if I may...

[AVGWarhawk]

All right men, I thought we were over these types of threads. Diggs has spoke his peace about the game. Lets move on. Darn, just when you thougth everyone was on the level.....

[GakunGak]

At the sound of the beep, this thread will be closed...

BEEP.....


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I love that...:rock:

[AVGWarhawk]

NOW HEAR THIS, NOW HEAR THIS.......thead to be left open. Come to logical thought out discussion on the matter Diggs has brought up. Please, do not bait each other:roll:

[GakunGak]

I was just having fun... However, this forum is flooded with thing like this, nothing new...:lol:

[Chock]

As subsim addicts (well I suspect most of us are anyway), we'd probably still buy SH4 even if it was a lot more problematic than it is (which let's be honest, aint that much).

Why?

Well we're not exactly snowed under with choice for submarine simulations, at the last count, I make it two currently commercially available submarine sims - DW and SH4, after that, you're on the old ones or arcade-style stuff.

Nevertheless, if I really thought SH4 was a steaming pile of crap, I would say so.

But I think it's pretty good, and I'm much more of a fan of the German WW2 boats than the US ones myself, so it would be easy for me to dislike it if there was a good enough reason to. A few bugs here and there are not enough to make me dismiss it or start screaming for my money back, which at 30 quid was hardly enough to bankrupt me anyway, you can spend more than that on a night in a pub.

Chill out and wait for a patch, yes it's annoying to have to wait, but it's hardly a surprise to learn you might have to do that with software that has to work on such a variety of different platforms and operating systems.

[mookiemookie]

:rotfl:That was choice!!! Are you a lawyer IRL by any chance? You outta be... He is probably the one from these kind... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil%27s_Advocate_%28film%29
Good movie, if I may...
:lol: No, I'm a financial analyst but mom always told me I should have been a lawyer. The money probably would have been better anyways!

In all seriousness, I think our misguided friend here hasn't read the millions of other posts on the subject at hand. A submarine simulation game has nowhere near the resources (time, money, development team numbers) that a big budget title would. Ubi is just not going to sink that amount of development money into a game that's genre has historically been a niche market.

Choosing this game as your battleground to rail against the injustices of software publishers issuing buggy titles does nothing for your cause, and it does everything to hurt the cause submarine simulation enthusiasts like me. It only hurts the very very limited genre as a whole, and gives more ammunition for the suits at Ubi to say "screw 'em if they don't like it." I guarantee you that's what they'll say, long before they'd say "gee maybe we should sink more money and development time into a game that's only gonna show limited returns so folks like Diggs can have a bug free experience."

Neal has stated that there's companies who won't touch sub sims with a 10 foot pole because they can't please the diehard realism fanatics. Bitching about submarine sim games that have tight development cycles not being perfect doesn't do much to help the cause, and damn sure won't change anything.

[AVGWarhawk]

I was just having fun... However, this forum is flooded with thing like this, nothing new...:lol:

Very true. But hey, I guess all are entitled to their opinion. Anyway check this thread out:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114115

Apparently a laundry list of issues. Please read my response. Less than a handful for the next patch needs to be done in my view. All in all, we are getting somewhere and learning quite a bit about hardware issues and mixing files around manually that create problems. Out of the box, 90% complete....developers knew this...hence a 100mb patch done in less than a day....the patch was ready before the game hit the shelves men...they knew it was incomplete. Patch 1.2 fixed more problems and from what I see less than a handful of corrections for 1.3.

[Diggs]

And I understand all of that....as i said before...I have very high hopes for this game...but the question that I have for every one of you is....When did this become ok? No matter how complicated the programming, no matter how hard it is for the devs to meet the deadline.....When did it become ok to release a product that isnt ready to be released? :damn:

[AVGWarhawk]

And I understand all of that....as i said before...I have very high hopes for this game...but the question that I have for every one of you is....When did this become ok? No matter how complicated the programming, no matter how hard it is for the devs to meet the deadline.....When did it become ok to release a product that isnt ready to be released? :damn:

It is never OK and I suspect the guys who did put the time and effort into creating this game are upset also. They develop, the penny counters tell them when to release....whether completed or not. We bear the brunt. I think UBI is making good with the patches. So far, I'm very happy with the game and the patches thus far.

[mookiemookie]

And I understand all of that....as i said before...I have very high hopes for this game...but the question that I have for every one of you is....When did this become ok? No matter how complicated the programming, no matter how hard it is for the devs to meet the deadline.....When did it become ok to release a product that isnt ready to be released? :damn:
I would bet it had a lot to do with the fact that broadband is widespread nowadays, and patches are easier to deliver to end users. In the old days, releasing a patch involved writing it to disks or burning it to CD's and mailing it to users, all of which cost money. Now that the costs of distributing patches have been erased by the broadband age, I imagine it's easy for software publishers to release a title with known bugs that they plan on patching later in order to realize immediate profits.

[Bane]

They develop, the penny counters tell them when to release....whether completed or not.
Stop with this. I used to thnk the same thing, but in reality it's nonsense and entirely false. Both the devs and the publishers signed on the bottom line, they both had contractual obligations to meet, everything was in writing beforehand.

The devs knew far in advance, probably before they even started, when they were expected to have the game finished. The publisher doesn't just pick any old day, call the devs and say "Today's the day! Dev time over! Drop what you're doing and ship it!"

Both sides are guilty to some degree, but if you want to pick a side point the finger at the devs. They're the ones developing the game under the timetable they agreed to beforehand and they're the ones who may or may not have provided a finished product worth your money (depending on your opinion on the state of the game right now).

Why isn't this thread locked already.

[Calbeck]

When did this become ok?

Pretty much when the first graphically-intensive game hit the shelves. Once upon a time games were reliably programmed from the get-go --- then again, they were also limited to somewhere around 540K of RAM, were rarely larger than a megabyte, and "cool graphics" meant they came in multiple colors and maybe some limited animation of still-frames. Aside from text, there wasn't all that much to screw up.

Nowadays, there are THOUSANDs of things that can go wrong --- and invariably, at least a few of them will. The real mark of a good game isn't that it's flawless out of the box, it's that the number of bugs that slip past QA are low and can be corrected in relatively short order.

[DirtyHarry3033]

Well said Mookie! IMHO, it's better to have a buggy (yet still playable and enjoyable) sub sim as opposed to no sim at all.

I'm hoping that we'll get one more patch that will get rid of the major bugs (radar, IDL, stopwatch among others) and maybe even some of the minor ones such as my sub appearing to fly thru the air when surfaced in heavy seas ;)

But even if we don't, I'm still very glad to have the opportunity to own SH4 and I don't regret a dime of the money I paid for it! Been playing and enjoying it, at least 2 hrs a night since the day it was released, so the cost per hour played is very reasonable.

Let's face it, it's in human nature to complain. It's gonna happen no matter what. If it isn't realistic enough, people will gripe.

However, if UBI had invented Star Trek type Holodeck technology, and released SH4 in that format, and the player perceived himself to be physically in the submarine, rocked to sea-sickness by waves, knocked to the deck by DC's, sweating like a pig in the sweltering heat and breathing the stench of his unwashed crew (enduring what the real submariners endured) they'd be complaining that it's "too real".

Just goes to show, doesn't pay to make games!

DH

[mookiemookie]

The devs knew far in advance, probably before they even started, when they were expected to have the game finished. The publisher doesn't just pick any old day, call the devs and say "Today's the day! Dev time over! Drop what you're doing and ship it!"


When is the last time that any major project you undertook come off without a hitch? Without any unexpected delays or issues that needed to addressed? When everything went exactly as planned?

Doo doo happens. And that throws development schedules off.

[Bane]

When is the last time that any major project you undertook come off without a hitch? Without any unexpected delays or issues that needed to addressed? When everything went exactly as planned?
Never. An error-free project doesn't happen. The day one of our jobs goes perfectly beginning to end is probably the day I'll get hit by a bus or something.

Doo doo happens. And that throws development schedules off.
Yes it does. In most cases the doo doo doesn't delay the end date of the contract though. The contractor signed the deal, any doo doo that happens because of the contractor between beginning to end is the contractor's problem. The job ends on the date specified in the contract, doo doo or not.

[Reece]

Diggs has a right to voice his HONEST opinion!:yep:

[ccruner13]

Yes it does. In most cases the doo doo doesn't delay the end date of the contract though. The contractor signed the deal, any doo doo that happens because of the contractor between beginning to end is the contractor's problem. The job ends on the date specified in the contract, doo doo or not.

well...not really.. if im building a building and dont finish up by the day i say i will i still have to finish it. i just dont get to charge the client for anything anymore.

[Bane]

well...not really.. if im building a building and dont finish up by the day i say i will i still have to finish it. i just dont get to charge the client for anything anymore.
And how many buildings have you built? It's a little more complicated than 'I just don't get to charge the client for anything anymore'. But building buildings is not what we're discussing in this thread.

[vindex]

I'm actually torn when I see "complaint" threads. Parts of me agrees with both sides.

On the one hand, it is true that games are a victim of our ever-rising expectations. In the past, we just accepted unrealistic or missing features as the inherent limitation of computer gaming, and what you bought was what you got, no patch. I admit, I'm getting spoiled. And I do believe that, when all is said and done, SH4 will be patched and modded to be an unbelievably great game.

On the other hand, I am getting very tired of the pattern where publishers rush devs to ship a product that really isn't quite there yet, and rely on buyers to beta test it and modders to bring it up to its full potential. This is NOT unique to Ubisoft or to SH4. In fact, it is becoming SOP. If you looked at a forum for Medieval 2: Total War about 6 months ago, you would have seen EXACTLY the same complaint threads flowing from a nearly identical situation. Personally, I put off buying SH4 until the 1.2 patch came out, and I'm glad I did. Right now, I'm playing off and on, but I'm really waiting for 1.3 to get serious. But I am tired of downloading fixes to this and that, and being a pawn in this entire process. As I've said before in other posts, I am willing to pay $100 (a 100% premium) for a game that works right out of the box, and I'm curious to see if a publisher will ever take me up on this.

One of the frustrating aspects of SH4, in particular, is how many features that worked well in SH3 got screwed up in SH4. Granted, often this is minor, but it does kind of make you want to bang your head and ask "HOW? WHY?" But there are also many great improvements that make it hard to go back to SH3, which is why I hope someone will ultimately mod the SH4 engine to run a German sub campaign.

[Safe-Keeper]

Yes, it's sad. But there have been thousand threads on this already and frankly, I'm a little angry.

1. Research
2. Technical consulting
3. Model designing
4. Materials, war footage to analyze
5. Compiling and drawing
6. Textures
7. Scripts...8. Advertisement.
9. Sound effects.
10. Music.
11. Game testing.
12. Copy protection.
13...

Come on, let's make a complete list! This is fun!

[mookiemookie]

As I've said before in other posts, I am willing to pay $100 (a 100% premium) for a game that works right out of the box, and I'm curious to see if a publisher will ever take me up on this.

One of the frustrating aspects of SH4, in particular, is how many features that worked well in SH3 got screwed up in SH4. Granted, often this is minor, but it does kind of make you want to bang your head and ask "HOW? WHY?" But there are also many great improvements that make it hard to go back to SH3, which is why I hope someone will ultimately mod the SH4 engine to run a German sub campaign.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on both of these points. Or as Homer Simpson so eloquently put it: "Hmm...your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter"

[Diggs]

"As I've said before in other posts, I am willing to pay $100 (a 100% premium) for a game that works right out of the box, and I'm curious to see if a publisher will ever take me up on this."


Why should you have to pay double to get what you should have been getting all along?

[marky]

I like most of the people here love the sub game concept but as i've been searching around the forums, reading what people have to say, the basic humdrum seems to be... Why does this happen? Is this a bug? Is this happening to anyone else? Quite frankly, i'm a little angry. When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past? Dont get me wrong....I love this game and see it's potential but I dont believe I should have to bend over and grab my ankles for $50+ dollars. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times gentlemen and if no one does anything about it, it will only get worse.


have to agree with that, cant be said better

[McBeck]

When is the last time that any major project you undertook come off without a hitch? Without any unexpected delays or issues that needed to addressed? When everything went exactly as planned? Never. An error-free project doesn't happen. The day one of our jobs goes perfectly beginning to end is probably the day I'll get hit by a bus or something.

Doo doo happens. And that throws development schedules off. Yes it does. In most cases the doo doo doesn't delay the end date of the contract though. The contractor signed the deal, any doo doo that happens because of the contractor between beginning to end is the contractor's problem. The job ends on the date specified in the contract, doo doo or not.
I manage development IT projects for a living and projects NEVER go as planned!
So what do you do? You include buffers to handle those problems. If you dont, then you are sure to have issues.

However im sure the devs asked Ubi for more dev time.

[GakunGak]

No wonder the devs in SH4 dev videos were a litle upset....
Imagine a CTD in front of the camera...:rotfl:

[Antrodemus]

Imagine a CTD in front of the camera...
Almost as entertaining as a BSOD while showcasing your shiny new OS to the press... eh Bill? :up:

[GakunGak]

Imagine a CTD in front of the camera...
Almost as entertaining as a BSOD while showcasing your shiny new OS to the press... eh Bill? :up:
Windows 98 due to driver conflict?:lol:

[Antrodemus]

Indeedski. :D

[GakunGak]

Знао сам!!!
I knew it!!!:rock:

[-Pv-]

Just another moan and groan thread. Nothing I haven't read 1000 times.

No.
No one has gone to jail for creating a computer game.

Funny how such a bad game has eaten up a couple hundred hours of my entertainment time. I would have spent about $500 in movie tickets by now as an alternative. I wonder how many of those movies would have been 100% satisfying?

80% of this SH4 area has been hijacked by the hate crowd. The creativity shown in enticing people to read the rants is without equal.

Half the flaws in every software is between the keyboard and the seat.

If you are using Windows XP you are using software which has had thousands of flaws patched and it has taken YEARS and not done yet. Stop buying computers and stop buying games and you'll be 100% satisfied.

Obviously you haven't lived very long. Computer games have been produced with flaws since day one.
When did it become OK? Nearly 30 years ago.

WHEN DID IT BECOME OK TO TRY AND MAKE THE WORLD AS MISERABLE AS YOU? Oh about 10 years ago based on the evidence.
-Pv-

[SteamWake]

When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? .

Around the same time the personal computer was created.

[Diggs]

Just another moan and groan thread. Nothing I haven't read 1000 times.

No.
No one has gone to jail for creating a computer game.

Funny how such a bad game has eaten up a couple hundred hours of my entertainment time. I would have spent about $500 in movie tickets by now as an alternative. I wonder how many of those movies would have been 100% satisfying?

80% of this SH4 area has been hijacked by the hate crowd. The creativity shown in enticing people to read the rants is without equal.

Half the flaws in every software is between the keyboard and the seat.

If you are using Windows XP you are using software which has had thousands of flaws patched and it has taken YEARS and not done yet. Stop buying computers and stop buying games and you'll be 100% satisfied.

Obviously you haven't lived very long. Computer games have been produced with flaws since day one.
When did it become OK? Nearly 30 years ago.

WHEN DID IT BECOME OK TO TRY AND MAKE THE WORLD AS MISERABLE AS YOU? Oh about 10 years ago based on the evidence.
-Pv-

You've read a thousand complaints? hmmm what does that tell you? It's time to pull your head out of your rear and realise that people that complain about things like this arent HATERS. They are simply making a statement about how they dont like what they see. And, well you have read a thousand of them so that must mean that something is wrong huh? This is a forum right? If you don't like it, too bad! Don't read them.

[AVGWarhawk]

You've read a thousand complaints? hmmm what does that tell you? It's time to pull your head out of your rear and realise that people that complain about things like this arent HATERS. They are simply making a statement about how they dont like what they see. And, well you have read a thousand of them so that must mean that something is wrong huh? This is a forum right? If you don't like it, too bad! Don't read them.

Diggs,

Take it up with UBI customer service. Forum members did not create the game, we are only attempting to fix what we can and get a list together of bugs needing correction in hopes that UBI will correct them.

Simply making a statement is fine but not really three pages worth on the forum. If you wish to lodge a complaint then do so with UBI customer service and also their forums.

[Nightmare]

You've read a thousand complaints? hmmm what does that tell you? It's time to pull your head out of your rear and realise that people that complain about things like this arent HATERS. They are simply making a statement about how they dont like what they see. And, well you have read a thousand of them so that must mean that something is wrong huh? This is a forum right? If you don't like it, too bad! Don't read them.

Perhaps because I've been visiting Subsim for almost 4 years and it's the best submarine community out there. This community has always been about people coming here and sharing a common interest and to help one another. The problem I have is when 2/3rds of the posts on the first page of this forum is nothing but bitching about the same issue.

For example, this morning we had an additional 2 topics on the forced retirement issue when we already have a thread 10 pages long dedicated to that topic. Neither of these 2 topics had a half decent description of the issue (or I would have skipped them). Instead, I open “What the FRACK?!?!” thinking someone was experiencing a problem and perhaps it would be something new or something I could perhaps help with.

If you are really that upset, do something constructive like write a letter or get in contact with Ubi. Posting endless threads about how “this game sucks,” or how this bug ruins it for you does nothing but add noise to the forum that makes it harder for people to find what they are looking for.

Don’t get me wrong, you have a right to complain and be upset. However, it should be contained in already existing threads so as to not clutter up the forum.

[rduffy34]

I like most of the people here love the sub game concept but as i've been searching around the forums, reading what people have to say, the basic humdrum seems to be... Why does this happen? Is this a bug? Is this happening to anyone else? Quite frankly, i'm a little angry. When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? Havent people gone to jail for stuff like this in the past? Dont get me wrong....I love this game and see it's potential but I dont believe I should have to bend over and grab my ankles for $50+ dollars. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times gentlemen and if no one does anything about it, it will only get worse.

:roll: :damn:

[geosub1978]

Has anybody of those who complain, wondered why Ubisoft published SH4 with so many weaknesses???????
(just initialy because now the game is heading straight to the top again). I can think of some reasons:

-They didn't notice the weaknesses.

-They didn't know how to make it.

-They didn't care about the reputation of the company.

-They wanted their money right now with a bugged game rather than after four months with a better game.

-They didn't care about the prospect of developing the SH series in the future, thus didn't care about the future profit.

If all these make any sence to you then you can keep on complaining.

Even though we are these who payed, we are also responsible for the early releaze of the game!Let me remaind you that the 1.1 patch was releazed before the game itself!!!!!

Don't underestimate the power of this very old forum!

KEEP ON HUNTING!!!

[vindex]

"As I've said before in other posts, I am willing to pay $100 (a 100% premium) for a game that works right out of the box, and I'm curious to see if a publisher will ever take me up on this."


Why should you have to pay double to get what you should have been getting all along?

Because I am willing and happy to reward the kind of customer-oriented attitudes that are sorely lacking in the game software biz today.

I'm sorry, but I don't accept the argument that the software biz/project dev has always been like this and always will be. In EVERY industry there is a short-term incentive to "smash and grab" -- reduce quality, reduce customer service, cut costs, get revenue ASAP, and let tomorrow worry about itself. And occasionally there are competitive companies that resist this urge, take a longer view, and try to cultivate a reputation for quality and service. If they are successful, they can command a premium from happy and loyal customers. Think, for instance, about the different between Northwest Airlines and Singapore Airlines. Which one invests in its image and service? Which one has a brighter future?

I actually think there is a profitable market for a software publisher that is known for consistently delivering high-quality FINISHED games. I actually think that they could charge a premium in this market that would more than make up for its higher costs and delayed sales.

My "belly-ache" about SH4 isn't that it's a bad game -- it's a great game, even with all its present flaws. It's that the game has SUCH POTENTIAL to be so much better, almost god-like, if a little time and attention were paid to it before it got pushed out the door. And then everyone could hail Ubisoft for breaking the trend, and I would honestly pay more attention to anything that Ubisoft released in the future because I'd know it would be top-notch.

The game I bought is worth about 35 bucks. After all the patches and mods, it will eventually be worth the $50 I paid. But if it had really lived up to its potential, it would have been worth $100. Ubisoft and other software publishers should ponder that for a moment. (But they probably will just think I'm an idiot. And when you start thinking that your customers are idiots ...)

[jerryt]

When did it become ok to sell a faulty product to the masses? .

Around the same time the personal computer was created.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Too true!!

[Diggs]

You've read a thousand complaints? hmmm what does that tell you? It's time to pull your head out of your rear and realise that people that complain about things like this arent HATERS. They are simply making a statement about how they dont like what they see. And, well you have read a thousand of them so that must mean that something is wrong huh? This is a forum right? If you don't like it, too bad! Don't read them.

Diggs,

Take it up with UBI customer service. Forum members did not create the game, we are only attempting to fix what we can and get a list together of bugs needing correction in hopes that UBI will correct them.

Simply making a statement is fine but not really three pages worth on the forum. If you wish to lodge a complaint then do so with UBI customer service and also their forums.

Relax guys, all I am trying to do is have a discussion on this topic. I really am interested to hear what you guys think. Half of the responses have been really informative, and interesting. The other half have been guys trying to bash down someone for stating his opinion. I dont mind tho, I think some are pretty clever. Im not demanding jail time for anyone. The reason this topic is still going is because people obviously have something to say. If no one wants to talk about it anymore then lets close this thread.