Patch 1.3

[pythos]

If we don't get a patch 1.3, and wonder why, all we need to do is look at the flack given to the Devs by most on this and other forums, and let's not forget that wonderful bit of satire called "Das Boot does SH4". If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell.

When the patch came out I mostly saw complaints, and more complaints. I myself got called a fan boy for suggesting for members here to take it easy when complaining. The average poster here seems to have degraded, while the true kaleuns/skippers are out on virtual seas enjoying these games, that though buggy, are awsome in so many respects.

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.

For the devs, I hope you do put out a patch taking care of the outstanding issues this promising sim has.

[FIREWALL]

Just a normal affliction called : Nerdus Impatienceus :D

[rduffy34]

I agree with you 100% It's always about whats wrong and never whats right.

I think that implies about my boss too!:D

[7Enigma]

If we don't get a patch it has nothing to do with this, or any other forum and its members. It only has to do with money and commitment to a finished product.

Trying to pawn off blame away from the developer's and/or distributor's failure to release a stable product is rediculous. :down:

You release a game that has issues only seen on certain hardware/software combinations is completely acceptable and almost impossible to avoid in today's wide range of configurations. These are things like driver issues and accessory incompatibilites.

You release a game that from day one and still today after 2 patches has many broken aspects (radar, chrono, save issues) and you get no sympathy from me and many other gamers. That's just disrespectful.

[Sailor Steve]

I agree up to a point. Legitimate complaints are always welcome, especially if that's the only way to point out flaws and attempt to get them fixed. That said, I've been called a few names myself for telling the complainers what I'm about to say here: there are already several good threads on "What I like about SH4", and many people have started many threads to say what was said here.

I want only the best for SH4, but I thought Das Boot Does SH4 was hilarious.

Just trying to be fair to both sides.

[FIREWALL]

Just a normal affliction called : Nerdus Impatienceus :D


Bump:D

[Joe S]

While the "true skippers" are out sinking ships.....The rest of "US" me included, is sitting there in front of a windows screen waiting to reload the game after a crash. If I could run a missioin without crashes I would be doing it. I am not complaining about any individual on the DEv team, I assume they are doing their job and doing a good job. I have a complaint about a company who sold me a half finished product and got full price for it. Not only is it only half finished but it many ways it is a step backwards from the state of the art in SHI and SHIII. If I ever get to the point where I can run the program I would like to enjoy as you apparently are. Joe S

[TDK1044]

People's experiences are very varied regarding CTDs with SH4. I've been playing 40 plus hours now with zero crashes to desktop. I guess it's a mix of bugs, mods, settings and compatibility.

[sean705]

I can say from experience that this is becoming the norm in the software industry nowadays. I work for a software company, on the dev side of the house and I can't tell you how many companies will force out a piece of software, just to turn a quick buck. Management types seem to think that, as long as you KNOW what bugs the software has, it's ok to release it, with the understanding that the bugs will be fixed at a later date (but ifixing those bugs becomes less and less of a priority after the cash is in their pockets).
As we all know (being paying customers and all) this is not a good practice. And I can tell you, this is a very sore point with 99% of the developers that I have worked with. I've seen countless software releases that have only been allowed to go through two or three rounds of full Q/A testing and then shipped.
So, what I'm saying is, don't necessarily point the finger at the game developers, more often than not, this blame is shouldered by the upper management of the company.

Just my two cents

[7Enigma]

People's experiences are very varied regarding CTDs with SH4. I've been playing 40 plus hours now with zero crashes to desktop. I guess it's a mix of bugs, mods, settings and compatibility.

To the dev's credit v1.2 has all but eliminated my frequent CTD's. Just makes me think v1.2 should have been v0.997 (fix my damn radar!) :)

[Calbeck]

I'll say this as a working PC tech (can't say who with, obviously), as well as someone who's been tweaking his PCs for gaming since 1988.

SH4 IS a very good game. It has its issues in terms of gameplay, but it remains THE best out-of-the-box sub game I've ever played. SH3 is, currently, debatably superior, but only because of the efforts of dozens of modders working for years to improve on what was already a great game. The same will be true here as SH4 catches up in the modding zone.

As to CTDs, here's a tip: RAMP YOUR RAM. Especially if you're running Vista, and VERY especially if you have a 256M or heftier video card.

Why? Because many video cards currently "pre-position" RAM addresses in expectation of heavy loads, and that's fine --- IF you have the RAM to spare, which many folks don't. This function speeds video processing, but cuts the rest of the system off from using that RAM. Add the fact that Vista requires 1Gig MINIMUM to run worth a damn, and you can rest assured that you're going to have CTDs and bluescreens relating to memory should you try to run SH4 on a high-end card using Vista on 1G.

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M! Note that PCI-X cards are not as prone to this, because it becomes a software issue and isn't hardwired into the card. Reducing the AGP aperature in BIOS and ramping up to 2Gigs RAM has resulted in a FAR more stable machine --- and I can now run SH4 with all the visual goodies, whereas I got low framerates and stuttering trying to do so before.

This is also probably the cheapest fix for most of you out there --- my extra gig cost slightly more than $100, for a good pair of Corsair 512s.

[Bane]

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M of space! What's a good rule of thumb for setting the AGP aperture in your opinion? I have a 512MB card, 2GB of RAM and XP.

[DragonRR1]

Good ariticle here Bane:

http://www.tweak3d.net/joomla/features/hardware/agp-aperture-size-examined

Albeit a bit old! - 256mb is the norm.

[Calbeck]

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M of space! What's a good rule of thumb for setting the AGP aperture in your opinion? I have a 512MB card, 2GB of RAM and XP.

At minimum, it should be the same size as the card, and preferably twice that. With 2G and XP, you might try a 1G aperature and scale back if you get bluescreens, but assuming the rest of the box is to basic specs you should be good.

As to 256M being "the norm", that was true of the benchmarks DragonRR1 referred to...which were conducted in 2002 using 32M and 64M cards. They didn't test beyond 256M at the time because no card on the market could be expected to use that much RAM under any but the most extreme circumstances. With 256M and 512M cards now being the norm, methinks it's time someone did a new round of benchmarking...

[subfan1]

If we don't get a patch it has nothing to do with this, or any other forum and its members. It only has to do with money and commitment to a finished product.

Trying to pawn off blame away from the developer's and/or distributor's failure to release a stable product is rediculous. :down:

You release a game that has issues only seen on certain hardware/software combinations is completely acceptable and almost impossible to avoid in today's wide range of configurations. These are things like driver issues and accessory incompatibilites.

You release a game that from day one and still today after 2 patches has many broken aspects (radar, chrono, save issues) and you get no sympathy from me and many other gamers. That's just disrespectful.

Agreed, I paid my money (I'm one of the 3000 deluxe versions) I expect the product working if it's not too much trouble.

People have been brainwashed/conditioned :doh: by the likes of Microsoft to think it's ok to release incomplete products onto the market and expect the paying public to act as their user acceptance testing! In Microsoft's case they can potentially cost business's money and frustration, luckily this is only a game.

As regards the "certain hardware/software", issue, that's why they provide a recommended system config. Lots of people have the exact requirements but still have the radar etc problems. Lets face it, it's buggy.

Finally the 2 patches and still not fixed comment. This game is not a mindless blast anything that moves shoot em up. It's played by people who appreciate precision and things like hydrophones not working at periscope depth is extreemly annoying. I like to get into position in realtime, so while it takes time to position yourself for a perfect shot, to me it's worth it in the payoff. To get all the information I need for "the perfect shot", I have to make my sub act like a dolphin breeching for air continually going from 14 to 20 feet. With that kind of farcical situation I'm supprised the Japs aren't rolling around on deck laughting at me. :88)

[stuntcow]

I also paid for my Delx Ed. and a collectors Ed. and am able to enjoy it as it is. I am waiting to see the next patch but will not complain the whole time about it. Would like to get what I played for and yet I still have a sim that I am able to play.

[orangenee]

If they do release another patch then yippee, if they don't, well we'll just have to make do, and hope some quality mods can sort some of the more annoying glitches or things not working as they should. I'd much rather they took their time over one patch and tested it properly than keep releasing patches that fix certain things but break others.

[CTU_Clay]

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M of space! What's a good rule of thumb for setting the AGP aperture in your opinion? I have a 512MB card, 2GB of RAM and XP.

At minimum, it should be the same size as the card, and preferably twice that. With 2G and XP, you might try a 1G aperature and scale back if you get bluescreens, but assuming the rest of the box is to basic specs you should be good.

As to 256M being "the norm", that was true of the benchmarks DragonRR1 referred to...which were conducted in 2002 using 32M and 64M cards. They didn't test beyond 256M at the time because no card on the market could be expected to use that much RAM under any but the most extreme circumstances. With 256M and 512M cards now being the norm, methinks it's time someone did a new round of benchmarking...

Are you saying, "If your video card is 256 MB, then your BIOs AGP aperature should be set to at least 512." (with 2 gb ram)

[Chock]

If it can be shown that any problems someone has with SH4 are actually an issue with the software's quality and not hardware-related, then they will have some recourse to seek a refund (certainly in the UK anyway, and many other countries too). This being the case, a patch is not going to be released as a personal favour to us, but as a necessity to protect sales revenue.

I do suspect that many claimed bugs are actually a failure to either use things properly, or a due lack of decent hardware. Personally I have not had stability issues with SH4 apart from the 'A' crash on the initial unpatched version, so I'm reasonably happy with it, although also aware that it needs some bits sorting.

Stuff such as destroyers not seeming very aggressive would not qualify as a bug, merely a boring game. The radar not working would qualify however, as it would fall under (in the UK) the Sale of Goods and Services Act (basically, a thing you sell has to do what you claim it will, or it's refund time) however, one caveat to the Sale of Goods Act is that it doesn't cover digital downloads, which is one reason why buying the box is better.

UBISOFT will be concerned with protecting volume sales (probably casual buyers more than obsessives like us on this forum). It's that, which will likely determine how many patch iterations there will be, although I daresay slagging off the devs on this forum will not exactly endear us to them, or encourage them to give of their best in working out solutions either.

[MaciejK]

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.



We deserve a game which is playable out of the box, beta-tested one and so on, running withou so many MAJOR issues and without being rushed to the stores. But I'm afraid it is the world we live in.

However - I agree with you - thousands of tons of whining,complaining and such won't do any good - only reasonable bug reporting will do. And in so called meanwhile - enjoy this IMHO great game.

M

[Faamecanic]

SH3 is, currently, debatably superior, but only because of the efforts of dozens of modders working for years to improve on what was already a great game. The same will be true here as SH4 catches up in the modding zone.

And its funny that those modders made SH3 a SUPERIOR game all without the benefit of a SDK to give them access to the code for the games engine. A lot of changes the modders made would have taken the DEVs only an hour to do at most. Kudos for the modders fixing what the devs (and publisher) SHOULD have had right to begin with.

Look... I know if the devs could have spend 10 years on developing the ultimate sim, they would have. But UBI should not be let off the hook for releasing a half arsed half finished program.

Everyone points out the budget limits the time the devs were given...and given that logic you will doom the SH franchise eventually. I mean what will the next release be like, due to sales being lower this time with SH4 vs SH3 due to all the bugs at release? If Sales=the next versions budget...then SH5 should have a lot less money hence time for development (if at all).

[Zmidponk]

If we don't get a patch 1.3, and wonder why, all we need to do is look at the flack given to the Devs by most on this and other forums, and let's not forget that wonderful bit of satire called "Das Boot does SH4". If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell.
Yeah, because it's so terrible for us, the end users, to actually expect a completed product that functions as it should, when that is what we have paid for.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

When the patch came out I mostly saw complaints, and more complaints. I myself got called a fan boy for suggesting for members here to take it easy when complaining.
Quite frankly, that is exactly what your post stinks of - fanboyism. To say that it is our fault if we don't get a patch 1.3, when all we're asking for is the devs to actually finish the game is ludicrous to the extreme.

The average poster here seems to have degraded, while the true kaleuns/skippers are out on virtual seas enjoying these games, that though buggy, are awsome in so many respects.
Is SH4 awesome? It has the potential to be. Thanks to the many bugs that still infest it, that is all it is - potential.

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.
Then the devs don't deserve my money. If we don't get a patch 1.3, or 1.4, or 1.5, or however many patches it takes in order to finally get a completed product, I will be DEMANDING a full refund direct from Ubisoft.

For the devs, I hope you do put out a patch taking care of the outstanding issues this promising sim has.
So do I - then I might actually have a finished game to play.

[Calbeck]

Look... I know if the devs could have spend 10 years on developing the ultimate sim, they would have. But UBI should not be let off the hook for releasing a half arsed half finished program.

Nor is it "half-arsed" to begin with. This is NOT a "broken" game. It's missing SOME polish. And it remains THE best out-of-the-box sub sim ever created. You're to be lauded for having high standards, but don't hang a man simply because he falls one-tenth short of that mark.

Also, new and more appropriate sig. Playing with free camera mode and Easy Video Capture is FUN. -:D

[Iron Budokan]

Whether we get another patch isn't going to be influenced by what is said (or not said) on these forums.

I see now some people are already sowing the seeds of excuses: "We didn't get 1.3 'cuz too many people opened their yaps and complained." :roll:

C'mon, guys. Hate to burst your bubble, but it's not my fault the game isn't finished, and I'm not to blame because we may or may not get another much-needed patch. (And before you argue otherwise, NO, the game isn't finished. Fancy prettified graphics does not a game make. Period.) Here's another shocker for you: I'm not to blame because UBI stopped patching SH3 and never released an expansion pack that contained milch cows. I know it's shocking, but there you have it.

The only thing that matters to UBI are the sales figures. If sales have been strong (as they were with SH3) they will make another patch and continue to support the game. I for one hope we do get another patch because as I have argued on other threads this game has a TON of potential.

The game is unfinished and it's not the fault of the game player. So please, stop blaming the people who bought the game for the game's limitations. It's simply nonsensical to blame the consumer.

[Calbeck]

Are you saying, "If your video card is 256 MB, then your BIOs AGP aperature should be set to at least 512." (with 2 gb ram)

Nope, it's the video card RAM that sets the aperature minimum, and twice that for maximum, with the proviso that you must subtract your aperature from your total system RAM to figure what the rest of the system is running on. Also note that this is ONLY for AGP cards and will likely have little or no effect --- or make bad juju --- with PCI-Express cards, assuming that for some weird reason you have a motherboard that mounts PCI-X but has a BIOS with an AGP setting.

In the above case, 512M should be the max setting for a 256M card, leaving 1.5G RAM for other system needs. This would be a good setup even under Vista.

[Harry Buttle]

Purchasers have a number of very good reasons to be complaining (that have been covered in detail already) and it is good that they complain.

If nobody complains, Ubi tick the 'its all good' box and move on. no patch.

Some of the tone taken by complainers is harsh, but then they did put down the cash to buy the game - they bought the right to be furious at the state of SH4 both on release and post 1.1, they still (IMO) have the right to be angry with the state of SH4 post 1.2.

I still wouldn't recommend purchasing SH4 to a friend, though I believe it will be OK post 1.4 patch and some modding.

[TDK1044]

Silent Hunter 4 was unfinished at release because of an unrealistic production schedule. If you follow the timeline, the Devs had less than 14 months to build this game, and in my opinion it should have been at least an 18 month development schedule in order to release the game at the standard that patch 1.3 should put it.....if Ubisoft produces a patch 1.3.

[SteamWake]

Fly envious time til thy run out thy race
Call on the lazy leaden-stepping hours
Whose speed is but the heavy plummets pace
And glut thyself with what thy womb devours
Which is more then what is false and vain
And merely mortal dross;
So little is our loss
So little is thy gain


It all makes sense to me now.

[Faamecanic]

Look... I know if the devs could have spend 10 years on developing the ultimate sim, they would have. But UBI should not be let off the hook for releasing a half arsed half finished program.

Nor is it "half-arsed" to begin with. This is NOT a "broken" game. It's missing SOME polish. And it remains THE best out-of-the-box sub sim ever created. You're to be lauded for having high standards, but don't hang a man simply because he falls one-tenth short of that mark.

Also, new and more appropriate sig. Playing with free camera mode and Easy Video Capture is FUN. -:D

I hardly call this game 9/10's finished. Maybe more like 6/10's....

To list just a few of the problems still exsisting with SH4 even after patch 1.2

1) Save game corruption. After not suffering from this to date... I just lost my career last night. Got to the Please wait screen while loading my career...and "SH4 has generated an error and must close". When I save my games I save surfaced, no other ships in visual range, no radio or grammaphone playing...

2) AI that is still wonky. Most DD escorts very rarely hunt for me. Especially with convoys. Occasionally I get the lone DD that hunts me like true hunter.... but not very often.

3) Merchant AI... in convoys merchants coming to a STOP, coupled with DD's not hunting me isnt very sporty...its like fish in a barrel.

4) A submarie that acts like its on Rail road tracks even in rough waters...this ruins the immersion for me.

And there is much much more that still needs to be fixed... but that stuff has been hashed and re-hashed here.

Again what I find most alarming is that a GOOD majority of these bugs can be fixed by Modders with NO SDK! Which means that if UBI would just fund the Devs to fix this game, it shouldnt take very much to do so. Again look at what the GWX team did FOR FREE with NO SDK for SH3. There is no excuse for NOT realeasing the SH4 with all bugs that do NOT require modding of the game engine (which would require MUCH more time and money) in a state which the modders will take this sim to.

Just look at the reviews on SH4... its killing the sales of SH4... and Ubi sits and wonders why :88) :doh:

IMHO UBI and other game publishing companies are abusing the fact that modders will fix the game/sim FOR FREE. And this is unexcusable.

[Faamecanic]

Silent Hunter 4 was unfinished at release because of an unrealistic production schedule. If you follow the timeline, the Devs had less than 14 months to build this game, and in my opinion it should have been at least an 18 month development schedule in order to release the game at the standard that patch 1.3 should put it.....if Ubisoft produces a patch 1.3.

And thats my point TDK...I dont blame the Devs. You can tell they were pressured to release with a VERY compressed development schedule.

Its UBI that is to blame. Much like the CRAPTASTIC release of NFL HEAD Coach by EA SPORTS. For those that have played it you know what I mean. It was a GREAT idea, and you can see where the devs (Tiburon) wanted to take it. But it was sooooo buggy that sales plummeted shortly after release. So EA blames Tiburon, and the fan base gets hosed because EA will not release another one (or even PATCH the original!!) due to bad sales.

I dont know about you all, but it seems to me this is getting worse and worse as time goes on. Early release of games/sims, bugs cause opening sales to be low, publisher will not fund patches due to low sales, game is either modded by moders or game dies a horrible death.

[Bane]

And thats my point TDK...I dont blame the Devs. You can tell they were pressured to release with a VERY compressed development schedule.

Its UBI that is to blame. <snip>

I used to be in the same camp: blame the publisher! It's all their fault! The devs are victims of bad business!

Notice I said used to be. I sent an email to a publisher once, complaining and blaming them for the release state of one of the games I had purchased. I wasn't expecting any response from them, but I was pleasantly surprised to get a reply plus a few more emails back and forth talking about it.

Here is their initial reply. It's a bit long, sorry. Take from it what you will.

The names have been changed to protect the innocent.

---


> I know full well that the folks at [the game developer] have no control over
> the release date. That decision rests solely on you, the publishers.


And you know this on what authority, exactly? I'm just curious, you see. After all, it was us, the evil publishers, who held back the Gold Master for two weeks AFTER [the game developers] themselves declared [the game had] "gone gold", because of quality issues.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude. I know exactly how you feel. Well, maybe not exactly, because I don't play a lot of PC games because of this exact reason. I'd rather load up a console game any day. However, you have to understand two things (and I'd really prefer if you could keep the content of this mail confidential):

First, and this is the most important one: In the end, we're in this for the money. [The game developer] is in this for the money. Heck, even games journalists are in this for the money. It's a job, and if you don't take it serious, you won't make it. Sure, we could just publish the game "whenever it's done", but that's bulls*** (pardon the expression) that only extremely rich star developers can afford to tell the gaming press. Regular developers wouldn't get paid if the game took longer to develop. There would be no marketing and no press coverage beforehand, and no one except the die-hard fans would know about the product. And, if you happen to live in England, you will know this: The game wouldn't be in most stores. You actually have to buy shelf space, months in advance.

However, BECAUSE everyone is in it for the money, you should expect everyone to be professional about this. For us, that means securing production slots weeks before the actual production takes place, design a satisfactory box (I don't mean to brag, but the [country] one rules!) and make sure there's not too much stress on the developers (i.e. pay their bills, manage PR, keep day-to-day business out of their face), so they can concentrate on creating a game. For a developer, being professional means that the game has to be the best it can be AND that they fulfill their contracts. They agreed to do a demo version for a public show? Well, then I don't want any excuses, I want the demo. They agreed to a certain feature list? Then I don't want to hear which features won't make it in the final product. And so on...

Second, and this might be less important, but more interesting: We're not developers. In [this country], where we kicked off this whole [publisher] thing, we're four people in charge of product management AND producing. Right now, we're tending to roughly a dozen projects, some smaller, some considerably bigger than [the game] (i.e. pretty big). Plus, localised versions for other territories, of course. I'm no developer, and I don't have an array of fifty PCs at hand, and, most of all, I don't have the time to play through every version of every game. If I play a master candidate for three to five hours, it works on my machine and [the developer] tells me we're good to go - who am I to doubt their word? They're the ones talking to the beta testers. And, yes, OF COURSE we're all nerds and geeks and nitpicks and would like to produce the perfect game. I for one have spent a whole week almost almost without sleep when we designed the box, but that's the extent of what I can do. I can't slow time, and I can't change point 1 (see above).

The funny thing is: You don't get rewarded for putting quality above speed. We deliberately delayed the European release of [the previous game in the series] because of issues that were very similar to those we had just now (I'm using the past tense, because many of the really bad things have been remedied by now). You know what? We got a ****load of "how dare you disappoint the loyal European fan base - we want the game now now now - why do the Americans already have it" flame mails, and thousands of people imported the inferior U.S. version. And why not? They could play the game months ahead of their peers, and [the developer] uploaded the final patches even before the [European] version was released. In fact, they kept releasing patches afterwards, so the first [European] version wasn't the final one after all.

This time, I think we're holding back the game in [another European country] until 2006, because this is the first title we're publishing ourselves there, and we want to get this just right. Do you think it'll be worth it? Be honest. Me, I don't.

Of course, all of this might not interest you in the slightest, for all I know. But you know what? I had a really, really bad day, with several delays and several thousands of Euros lost to exactly these things, and not only with [the game] (as I said, everyone here has to look after more than one big title). It felt kinda good to let off some steam. Plus, my English can use the exercise. I'd like to mention again that I'd be grateful if you kept this email to yourself.

As a closing comment... I don't know your profession, but picture yourself the owner of a gallery. You have to organise the big opening party, months of planning, VIPs, everyone's there, only the artist and his paintings are missing. Oh well, no big deal, because the added time certainly helps his work, right? Or you're a teacher, and your students come to your class half an hour late because they had to finish their homework first. Cool, eh?

Sorry, I'm being rude again. All the folks at [the developer] are very nice people, but notoriously bad planners. These people see themselves as artists and tend to get carried away. It's our job to keep them in check, for their own good. You know what they're doing right now? Sure, they are fixing bugs, but they're adding features at the same time. Changing the menus. Re-balancing missions. Adding enemies. Re-writing the graphics engine. That's exactly what they did when we desperately needed the production master for [one European country]. It was what they did when we just as desperately needed the [next European countries] production master. And they are doing it now, while we're desperately awaiting the [current European countries] production master. You never get a job done that way, so you'll soon be out of one. If it means we have to be the bad guys, just so we as well as they can stay in business, well, so be it.

Famous last words, eh?

--

[Name]

[Publisher]

[Address]
[email]

[RocketDog]

I don't buy this angelic-devs/evil-Ubisoft line. The devs and Ubisoft negotiated a business deal in which Ubisoft would pay the devs to deliver a working product. The devs failed to do this. I don't know the details, but to me it looks like the devs screwed over Ubisoft by delivering a barely-functioning product. Not impressive.

Incidentally, Maddox/1C are very interactive with their customer base. Various devs post regularly in the Sturmovik forums and I've had several email exchanges with Maddox and colleagues. In contrast, the SH devs remain silent. It would be really no great effort for one of them to post here saying that, for example, they know about the broken chronometer or the way in which convoys slow down when attacked (!) and are going to fix it in 1.3. But they don't bother. Not impressive.

Cheers,

RD.

EDIT - while I was writing, Bane made the same point above, but rather more effectively.

[DragonRR1]

As far as I am aware the devs on SH4 work directly for Ubisoft, they aren't contracted.

The devs are simply not allowed to say what is happening, they pass on any progress to their PR depts.

Whilst I would be unhappy (in the extreme) to find out that patch 1.3 wasn't being worked on I can see why there is silence...

1. If there isn't going to be a patch.. Better to keep quiet!
2. If there is going to be a patch... Keep quiet or get lots of angry players asking when, what will be fixed, what about 1.4... etc...

I guess most people would assume that keeping quiet means no patch since surely they would want to tell us good news (aside from point 2). The thing is is that if UBI maintain a keep quiet policy throughout most games (which they appear to) no-one knows whether a patch will be done or not and no-one knows whether to complain.. or not ;)

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread whether we get a patch or not will be a commercial descision plus maybe a little good will. Some members have clearly upset and de-moralised the developers but overall UBI will have known they would get some serious flack from the community over SH4.

It would be rare indeed for a product of any sort to be fixed without people complaining about it weaknesses. Complaining in a reasoned manner is generally a good way to get what you want!


Dragon

[TDK1044]

I think most people honestly don't realize how things work in the video game world, and they therefore apply what to them is logical and then post based on that logical assumption.

The reality is that a video game project is given a very strict Budget. That Budget reflects what the the company, in this case Ubisoft, believes is a realistic investment in a game that will generate a given profit based on the sales of the previous similar game, in this case Silent Hunter 3.

That Budget includes everything, including anticipated patches. One part of that Budget is game development. In this case, Ubisoft were advertising in mid December 2005 for programmers to work on Silent Hunter 4. We know that the game was released in mid March 2007, and that it went 'gold' towards the end of Feb. So programming development of this project started in January 2006 and ended in Feb 2007.

Guys, that is a totally unrealistic production schedule to produce a high quality sub sim. This game should have been released in August not March, but doing that would have cost Ubisoft a lot of money.

Ubisoft rolled the dice with Silent Hunter 4. They're banking on the fact that the casual gamers, who will be about 95 percent of the people purchasing the game, will enjoy the game at a zero to 40 realism setting where the real bugs are much less obvious.

The worrying thing to me is that if they're right they'll adopt the same approach next time, and if they're wrong then there won't be a next time.

[Steeltrap]

Bane, that e-mail is a beauty!! Some of what that person says is oh so familiar to me, although my industry isn't software dev. I have worked as a project manager on many occasions, however, and one of the hardest things to get people to appreciate is a point well made in the e-mail:

If you promise me X on Y date, the you had better do one of two things:
1. deliver X on Y date
2. inform me well in advance if there is any possibility of you not doing 1. "Well in advance" means with sufficient time for me, as project manager, either to provide the resources required for you still to deliver X on Y date, OR manage the repercussions of you NOT delivering.

When you take that approach and tell someone that they promised according to a schedule they developed hence they now have to produce, you get called all sorts of interesting names (not often to your face, sadly). Yet who is responsible? Well, I get kicked if a project isn't done as promised (as a private contractor/consultant, if I don't deliver I soon have a crap reputation and thus no work) but that's because others haven't delivered or managed their issues. The simple thing is this: don't promise what you can't deliver, and don't deliver something that doesn't meet your promises!!

That's been my experience, and I suspect there are many truths in what that person wrote to you in their e-mail.

Thanks for sharing it with us (despite the person asking you not to). I hope you sent them a nice reply!

Cheers

[TheBrauerHour]

I'm sorry but Das Boot plays SH4 is freaking funny. I don't see why you have your panties all in a bunch about that. If you don't like it then don't watch it. It is not a reason Ubisoft won't release a patch. You are just being dramatic there...

[Bane]

That reply and subsequent emails between that person and myself was a real eye opener for me. I thought I had a decent idea of how things worked, but it turned out I didn't know as much as I thought I did (such as buying shelf space in advance, wtf?).

That email is several years old now and I tried to make it as anonymous as possible. I've kept it all this time because its a rare thing to get such a response from any business these days. This is the first time I've posted it anywhere.

[malkuth74]

Its human nature to complain. And you can't beat Nature.

[joea]

I don't buy this angelic-devs/evil-Ubisoft line. The devs and Ubisoft negotiated a business deal in which Ubisoft would pay the devs to deliver a working product. The devs failed to do this. I don't know the details, but to me it looks like the devs screwed over Ubisoft by delivering a barely-functioning product. Not impressive.


Disagree 100%, and at least a couple of devs have posted in the forum and they are aware of the bugs and even acknowledged one or two ... look for threads on the TDC to see one example.

[Faamecanic]

I think most people honestly don't realize how things work in the video game world, and they therefore apply what to them is logical and then post based on that logical assumption.

The reality is that a video game project is given a very strict Budget. That Budget reflects what the the company, in this case Ubisoft, believes is a realistic investment in a game that will generate a given profit based on the sales of the previous similar game, in this case Silent Hunter 3.

That Budget includes everything, including anticipated patches. One part of that Budget is game development. In this case, Ubisoft were advertising in mid December 2005 for programmers to work on Silent Hunter 4. We know that the game was released in mid March 2007, and that it went 'gold' towards the end of Feb. So programming development of this project started in January 2006 and ended in Feb 2007.

Guys, that is a totally unrealistic production schedule to produce a high quality sub sim. This game should have been released in August not March, but doing that would have cost Ubisoft a lot of money.

Ubisoft rolled the dice with Silent Hunter 4. They're banking on the fact that the casual gamers, who will be about 95 percent of the people purchasing the game, will enjoy the game at a zero to 40 realism setting where the real bugs are much less obvious.

The worrying thing to me is that if they're right they'll adopt the same approach next time, and if they're wrong then there won't be a next time.

My point EXACTLY. I will take it a step further. EA SPORTS and/or UBI as examples.

The publishers put the budget together based on ESTIMATED sales of the new sim/game based on either sales of the previous version (i.e. SH3) or marketing surverys and estimated sales of a new program (ie NFL Head Coach).

In the case of SH3, it was realeased buggy. That fact made it into the reviews, and most probably hurt initial sales. UBI decides to go forward with SH4 (shortly after SH3's release) and uses intial sales numbers to make up the budget for SH4. So now the publisher provides for a smaller budget. FOr the devs to make SH4 they either have to sacrafice TIME and/or quality. So SH4 is released with even more bugs... and the reviews reflect that. People wait until game is fixed to buy it, or if it isnt fixed close to a finished state, they dont buy the game at all or wait for it to hit the bargain bin.

So ..... now if there IS going to be a SH5, the budget is even smaller, so time or quality is sacrificed.... SH5 is either just as buggy, or lacks features, less sales.... UBI never does another SH becuase there just isnt the money.

The publisher, not the gamers, doom what otherwise could be a GREAT franchise.

Now with NFL Head Coach..... EA SPORTS released this as a new release, hoping to capitalize on the MADDEN football crowd last year. The hopes were VERY high by the fan base. After it was released it was SOOOO buggy (i.e. AI error that caused your QB to throw the football BACKWARDS, Veteran players that were only 29 yrs old deteriorating to the point of needing to be retired by the end of you first pre-season). Sales after the first month went into the toilet. EA says "This game did not generate the revenue so there will be NO PATCHES and no NFL Head Coach 07).

It wasnt for lack of interest in the sim... it was due to people seeing that the game was so buggy, and no promise from the publisher to fix it, people just didnt buy the sim.

Look...Im a small business owner. If sold my product at 80% complete.. then only brought it up to 90%, or left it at 80%....how long do you think I would stay in business?

[codeseven]

It seems to me that if a game is supposed to perform A B C D but on release only performs A and B then theres an obvious 'obligation' to fix the game, no need to thank anybody for doing what should be done in the first place. Now, if after the game is released it performs A B C D, as it was supposed to do, but a patch is released so the game will now do E and F, well that definitely deserves a big 'thank you' for the 'extra' content.

I'm not looking at these patches as 'extra niceties', I look at them as fulfilling an obligation to those that have paid for content that as it turns out is less than what was advertised. The game is still only producing A B and C. I also paid for D, hand it (1.3) over please, its not anything 'extra', its what I've already paid you for.

[Calbeck]

Okay, I'd like to know what part of the game was advertised that you haven't received.

There's not a single advertised function that isn't included in the game. The issue isn't even that they don't work. The issue is that some of them do not work reliably 100% of the time, and that is a legitimate complaint. So is the fact that some functions do not operate as smoothly or nicely as one could reasonably expect.

But overstating the case to claim the game is completely broken and unplayable (especially since it IS playable) doesn't help.

[donut]

"You will catch more ants with honey,than with vinegar" We all want patch 1.03
would you pay an additional $50.00,I would for a finished SHIV,Damn sharp of UBI
To get beta testers to pay for the potential of a game.:know:

[Faamecanic]

"You will catch more ants with honey,than with vinegar" We all want patch 1.03
would you pay an additional $50.00,I would for a finished SHIV,Damn sharp of UBI
To get beta testers to pay for the potential of a game.:know:

And I wouldnt mind being the beta tester paying UBI $50....provided they actually FIXED the sim. SH3 was left with major errors still in it, and if not for the FREE programmers (ie MODers) we would still have an incomplete program.

[7Enigma]

Okay, I'd like to know what part of the game was advertised that you haven't received.

There's not a single advertised function that isn't included in the game. The issue isn't even that they don't work. The issue is that some of them do not work reliably 100% of the time...

Radar at southern direction and chrono to name a few. Every time, not just random issues. Oh wait, you're right, they didn't advertise they were going to work, just that they were going to be included in the game. :rotfl: Comon, are you kidding me? You honestly think there is a difference between advertising a feature, and having it properly implemented in the game?

[codeseven]

Okay, I'd like to know what part of the game was advertised that you haven't received.

There's not a single advertised function that isn't included in the game. The issue isn't even that they don't work. The issue is that some of them do not work reliably 100% of the time...

Radar at southern direction and chrono to name a few. Every time, not just random issues. Oh wait, you're right, they didn't advertise they were going to work, just that they were going to be included in the game. :rotfl: Comon, are you kidding me? You honestly think there is a difference between advertising a feature, and having it properly implemented in the game?

Thats exactly why I did'nt reply, that was a rediculous statement. Theres a list of over 79 broken or missing features in SH4 so far and I'm sure not every single one of those were 'advertised' but I am sure UBI would love to use that lame excuse and leave the game as it is. However, I dont think the Devs, after putting in many hours of hard work into this game, would be happy with that decision.

[Steeltrap]

Well, since the 1.2 patch of Medieval II Total War (all 613Mb of it...... :o ) I haven't played SHIV. I just find it a massive disappointment. Mind you, that's just me.

Ubi has my $100, so I guess they're happy. :down:
They had better be - they certainly won't be getting any more of my money. :stare:

Oh, incidentally, the DEVELOPERS also should take a fair share of the responsibility. If Ubi had an agreed release date all along and the Devs entered a contract knowing that, then they can't complain if they weren't able to meet the terms of the contract they themselves chose to sign. :damn: :damn:

[USS_shipmaster]

From STILLTRAP " Oh, incidentally, the DEVELOPERS also should take a fair share of the responsibility. If Ubi had an agreed release date all along and the Devs entered a contract knowing that, then they can't complain if they weren't able to meet the terms of the contract they themselves chose to sign. :damn: :damn:"

My dear Steeltrap. You dont even imagine how many traps for devs contract you mentioned above may have. And people in eastern europe (in this case Romania) are hired for this job because of their dedication to it, high level of professionalism and because they costs cheaper. You are blaming Devs team for job they did and at the same time you do not know how to make it right or may be you know but you dont want to work for money UBI pays ...i m very sorry . These guys(DEVS) are very dedicated to SH series and dont leave on them the blame that fully belongs to UBI management.
I m not fully satisfied with SH4 features, but I m waiting for a patch which will solve all remaining gameplay bugs. I m just spending more time with "too manual "targeting. If UBIsoft will not finance this patch I just stop buying their products - thats all I can do and I tell all my friend to do the same with UBIsoft products. Just bad recommendations thats all. Will it work? Who knows ? May be...

[joea]

USS_shipmaster: :up:

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

If we don't get a patch 1.3, and wonder why, all we need to do is look at the flack given to the Devs by most on this and other forums, and let's not forget that wonderful bit of satire called "Das Boot does SH4". If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell.

When the patch came out I mostly saw complaints, and more complaints. I myself got called a fan boy for suggesting for members here to take it easy when complaining. The average poster here seems to have degraded, while the true kaleuns/skippers are out on virtual seas enjoying these games, that though buggy, are awsome in so many respects.

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.

For the devs, I hope you do put out a patch taking care of the outstanding issues this promising sim has.
Thats ridiculous. No way would Ubisoft be able to make a decent 1/72 scale Gato, just look at the virtual mess they made of it in SHIV....:lol:

If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell.
I really had to laugh at this. How old are you, son.....12?

[skullman86]

If you run a company and there are complaints about your products then you obviously aren't meeting expectations or standards.When people complain its because they expect the product to be in a certain condition regardless of the lame ass (possibly true) excuses people give, such as "it's not the dev's fault it's the publisher's"....etc.The game has bugs....No excuses JUST FIX IT, PLEASE!People complain because they want those bugs fixed and they have every right to express their frustration (especially when we don't get updated every so often).We are the customers and when a customer gets a product that is in some way faulty it is generally the company's responsibility to fix the problem.As I have stated before on the UBI forum, if I were to do a sub par job for a client I would not get paid unless I fixed it and even then I might even get a bad rap from that one customer.Why should a video game be any different, the game has noticeable flaws and it should be UBI's responsibility to fix the game no matter what.So even if that programmer doesn't like his boss breathing down his neck or us complaining he has no choice since its his ****ing job and he gets paid to do it.While technically it may be "hard" to program stuff, it is not manual labor so enough with the excuses about how coding is though.Yeah sitting on my ass typing away in an air conditioned room for 8 hours is hard :roll:.Everybody stands up for the developers like they are goddamn slave labor or something....Uh hello, they get paid like everybody else and they weren't forced into their job so why should we have to compromise; they are getting paid so they should be held accountable IMO?While the developers might be great people and they may be working hard, I still don't see why everyone treats them like they can do no wrong.

The game is fun but it has some major flaws that NEED to be addresses like 2 patches ago so I wouldn't expect to see a drop in complaints until they are fixed (if ever) and I would definitely not expect a drop in negative topics when people are creating topics that complain about complainers :doh:.All I want is an update sometimes so we at least know what to expect so we aren't left in the dark for two friggin months only to receive a patch that fixes some important issues but adds a bunch of crap that the community never asked for.

[Keelbuster]

If you run a company and there are complaints about your products then you obviously aren't meeting expectations or standards.When people complain its because they expect the product to be in a certain condition regardless of the lame ass (possibly true) excuses people give, such as "it's not the dev's fault it's the publisher's"....etc.The game has bugs....No excuses JUST FIX IT, PLEASE!People complain because they want those bugs fixed and they have every right to express their frustration (especially when we don't get updated every so often).We are the customers and when a customer gets a product that is in some way faulty it is generally the company's responsibility to fix the problem.As I have stated before on the UBI forum, if I were to do a sub par job for a client I would not get paid unless I fixed it and even then I might even get a bad rap from that one customer.Why should a video game be any different, the game has noticeable flaws and it should be UBI's responsibility to fix the game no matter what.So even if that programmer doesn't like his boss breathing down his neck or us complaining he has no choice since its his ****ing job and he gets paid to do it.While technically it may be "hard" to program stuff, it is not manual labor so enough with the excuses about how coding is though.Yeah sitting on my ass typing away in an air conditioned room for 8 hours is hard :roll:.Everybody stands up for the developers like they are goddamn slave labor or something....Uh hello, they get paid like everybody else and they weren't forced into their job so why should we have to compromise; they are getting paid so they should be held accountable IMO?While the developers might be great people and they may be working hard, I still don't see why everyone treats them like they can do no wrong.

The game is fun but it has some major flaws that NEED to be addresses like 2 patches ago so I wouldn't expect to see a drop in complaints until they are fixed (if ever) and I would definitely not expect a drop in negative topics when people are creating topics that complain about complainers :doh:.All I want is an update sometimes so we at least know what to expect so we aren't left in the dark for two friggin months only to receive a patch that fixes some important issues but adds a bunch of crap that the community never asked for.
I basically agree. SHIV is a scandal - a monumental ripoff/sellout with no excuses. Everyone involved should be keelhauled. I've had my rant already, and i've let it go, gone back to SH3 etc, but you got me started once again. The burn I get from this bastardization and squandering of so much potential is too much to handle...i have to block it out. Luckily my VIIC works just fine.

[vindex]

I'm adequately pleased with SH4, and believe it will get better with patches. But the initial post really did annoy me.

Next time your boss at work tells you you screwed up, or missed a deadline, or pissed off a customer, just try that approach on him. "If you don't accept me as I am, then maybe I won't do any more work for you. THEN you'll regret it." Haha, what do you think his response will be? Don't let the door hit you on the way out, bub.:dead:

Boo hoo hoo. Customers complain about a buggy not-ready-for-primetime product -- not just a couple of forum loudmouths but EVERY REVIEW I have seen -- and it makes the devs and publishers feel bad. Boo freakin' hoo. Hey, they all get PAID. The modders here don't get paid to FIX the game. They don't get paid to add cool features and graphics that the dev team didn't think about and the publisher couldn't care less. If they don't want to make sub sims, fine. There's a market here, if they don't, someone else will do it. I'm really not shedding any tears.:nope:

This is not an attack aimed at the devs. I realize they operate under various constraints and I applaud what they have accomplished, even in its unfinished state. They are probably the ones who realize, more than anyone, just how unfinished it really is. This rebuke is aimed squarely at the post that started this thread.:down:

[vindex]

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.

Our money back, you mean? I agree. ;)

[RoyalHighlander]

Try Red Orchestra it is a tank/combat ground war sim, but its a sim and actually a pretty dam good game too.. Loads of servers (over 175 last count and climbing) Ive been playing that and also call to duty 2 and am gonna wait till sh4 is patched properly..

[macky]

These posts really are starting to get me aggrevated. Why? Because I am sick of listening to arguments. The OP is blaming flamers because of all the negative posts, yet by actually posting this topic is guaranteed to get flamers on here:roll: hence adding to the negative feelings.

Guys, can we please move on...do we have to troll through posts defending or slating the devs, corp...w/e

Lets get back to the constructive subsim we used to know and love...stop this baiting of either camp:down:

[USS_shipmaster]

"Everybody stands up for the developers like they are goddamn slave labor or something....Uh hello, they get paid like everybody else and they weren't forced into their job so why should we have to compromise; they are getting paid so they should be held accountable IMO?While the developers might be great people and they may be working hard, I still don't see why everyone treats them like they can do no wrong."
I and some others guys stands for SH4 dev team, just because we have knowledge what is the programmers job.
I paid for it and I dont care" sounds like a teenager cry. Yes, we paid but we have to understand what is the cycle of game development and market... UBI wants PROFIT and made devs to work under unrealistic schedule.
What we can do? Remind them (UBI) our demands and If they will not do what they have to do according fair play business practice we just will not buy their products anymore...
Best regards VK
PS Nothing is personal and everything is personal.I had a manager 31 years old guy who thought that India was in Africa and Paris was probably in Rome. That guy wanted profit right away...He could not undersand why we need QA... because his daddy told so.... Idiocracy is coming. Congratulations!
If somebody again will notice how many mistake I mada ;-), please read below about NY it explains why i am living here :arrgh!:

[TDK1044]

What we can do? Remind them (UBI) our demands and If they will not do what they have to do according fair play business practice we just will not buy their products anymore...
Best regards VK


So here's what you don't understand. The subsim community in total represents less than 5 percent of sales. The number of people within the subsim community who would actually not purchase a future Ubisoft subsim product because of SH4 is very small indeed.....probably less than 100. That's because modded and patched, this game is already good and getting better.

A lot of us are not happy with the production schedule imposed on the Devs, or the state of the game at its release. But the thought that you and a few others with a similar naive opinion would make Ubisoft shake in their shoes because you refuse to buy any more of their products is laughable. Now if you can mobilize the 95 percent of casual gamers to complain to Ubisoft you'll be in business.

[USS_shipmaster]

TDK,
I agree in general but 5%? I believe it about 10. Only in Sh4. 20'000 (legal copies)people who will not buy all UBI products not only for themselves but for their kids and relatives. 20000 x 40-50=800000-100000, with other UBI products up to 2000000 ( when 20000 people will not buy any other game made in UBISOFT, Like Prince of Persia )
I know it is naive :-) but IMHO again its only one way to demonstrate what we as customers can do.
And my post was about who is reposible for current state of SH4 and what we really can do... just not buying bad products made in UBI in the future. Will it work? May be , may be not :-)
Best regards , lets hope they will make more patches.
VK

[USS_shipmaster]

I believe number of guys who really likes SH series are even more than 20000 but I think most of people here play with at least 60 % of realism.
How many casual gamers? Millions? How many of them play SH4? 5-10 percent.
May be I m wrong in numbers. May be not... There are 3 kind of lie: Lie, Big Lie and Statistics. Kidding.
Best regards VK

[E.Hartmann]

I agree with you 100% It's always about whats wrong and never whats right.

I think that implies about my boss too!:D

haha

Ok here is my attempt at a positive post:

1. Game loads fine..no wait had to remove it and add it back several times, do a defrag, then load it again.

2. Game looks awesome! Yep after a bunch of whinning and complaining we got FSAA or something faking it but WOW it looks pretty. Oops wait, why is my crew see thru, the sub outlined in white, jaggies..oh never mind.

3. Game Play is increadiable!!! After 10 torps that merchant still set there and refused to go down. Ok I'll shot it with my gun. Humm? I'm out of bullets and torps.

4. Realism is fantastic. Late 1944 and my torps are all dudes. I thought they fixed that back in '42. Oh well the game is awesome. Oh they aren't dudes they jsut dont run the right depth and speed! oops sorry I should have known better thats a FEATURE not a bug. (Game still looks good!)

5. Down planes. I said lower teh dive planes! We did sir but its a glitch. Pretend they are down.

6. Aircraft sighted! Shoot it down! I can't sir, the bulkhead is in the way and they last time we were in port for a refit, they didn't load ammo! Damn we need to stop complaining more and just play! The game looks great!

7. Target is AoB 90 and range 1200 yrds, or is that meters? I think its yards, not sure now the manual says meters but my dials say yards and the shots actually are actiing like its meters. Anyway, range is out in front of us FIRE! Sir I think the distance is off. What do you mean? THey target height in your scope is different than that of teh actual ship it seems..WHAT?

8. Dive Dive! We are about to be rammed! Its of sir, the DD will ram us and explode. Its a new feature.

9. Damage control patch that hole! What hole sir? That hole in the comming tower. Sir there is no hole there? Then why do I see day light? Its a feature.

10. Sir the conning tower crew is all dead! DEAD!?? What are you saying? Sir they all just laid down and died. Damn!

Ok Sarcasm off...

[USS_shipmaster]

:up: Well done!!!

[USS_shipmaster]

"9. Damage control patch that hole! What hole sir? That hole in the comming tower. Sir there is no hole there? Then why do I see day light? Its a feature."
Its actually not day light its famous tunnel lights from After Dive ( sorry Death)Experience LOL:lol:

[TDK1044]

I honestly understand your frustration, USS_shipmaster. The casual gamer represents well in excess of 90 percent of sales for this game, and for the most part they will be blissfully unaware of most of the bugs within it. That's because a lot of them will set the 'Realism' somewhere between zero and 40 so that they can go to sea, find ships and sink them. To the casual gamer, at least a lot of them, Silent Hunter 4 is a 'shoot em up' for an older demographic.

I'll bet that if you could get hold of the server download figures for all the websites offering the SH4 patch downloads so far, you would be surprised at the small number of people (in relative terms) who have downloaded patches 1.1 and 1.2.

Most casual gamers for this game are in an older demographic, and they are not very aware of patches or mods for games, and they are also not confident in their ability to download them even if they are aware of them. Their assesment of the game will be based on the 'out of the box' version.

I have a neighbor who fits exactly that profile. He purchased the game for himself and his young son, and they both play and enjoy it unpatched. That's because his Realism setting started out as literally zero and has climed to about 27 I think.

I truly hope that the casual gamers are content with this game so that Ubisoft will continue the franchise. That doesn't mean I'm happy with the production schedule the Devs were given or the pitiful user manual issued with Silent Hunter 4.

[joea]

3. Game Play is increadiable!!! After 10 torps that merchant still set there and refused to go down. Ok I'll shot it with my gun. Humm? I'm out of bullets and torps.

Some ships did take an incredible number of torpedoes...look at this thread.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114285

From "Silent Sea" by Harry Homewood:

"We've had reports from submarine Captains who tell us of hitting a tanker with as many as six torpedoes, hitting them in the sides of the hull. Those tankers are so compartmentalized that they can suck up a half-dozen torpedos at or below their waterlines."

Remarks from Admiral Christies staff.
Hey but history doesn't matter eh?


4. Realism is fantastic. Late 1944 and my torps are all dudes. I thought they fixed that back in '42. Oh well the game is awesome. Oh they aren't dudes they jsut dont run the right depth and speed! oops sorry I should have known better thats a FEATURE not a bug. (Game still looks good!)
All duds? First of all they were fixed towards the middle of 1943 NOT 1942...you really think there were NO dud torpedoes after that?


5. Down planes. I said lower teh dive planes! We did sir but its a glitch. Pretend they are down.
Well don't save when submerged, it wasn't a good idea in SH3 either ... sadly some bugs from SH3 did not get fixed hence...


8. Dive Dive! We are about to be rammed! Its of sir, the DD will ram us and explode. Its a new feature.
Happened in SH3 and should not have happened here. :nope:

Still why are you still playing the game then?

[joea]

:up: Well done!!!

No.

[kakemann]

I don't understand why you are arguing!

I'm happy that the patch is underway anyway! Weee!

Everyone should be no matter what! :up:

Thanks UBI!

There will definately be a 1.3 patch, and with all of us modders the development will go one way - upwards!

[AVGWarhawk]

I see a patch is forthcoming. We will get what we get and I hope it fits the bill for everyone.

Lets see what happens. As of now this thread not of much use. The wheels are in motion