Shallow water escapes from DD's?

[Rocks]

Hey guys


On my third tour, i got caught out by a pair of Mutsuki Destroyers in the shallow waters around Singapore when i was lining up a shot on a passenger liner.
(i pressed 5 instead of F4 :) )

Anyway needless to say i was in Deep S*** and shallow water...

No room to dive, no speed to escape and they were on top of me.

Tips?

[AVGWarhawk]

Stay out of shallow water if you can! Sometimes that juicy target is just too dangerous.

[Snuffy]

I got caught in the shallows by a pair of DDs.

I just dropped to the floor went dead and silent and sat it out.

After 2 hours of looking they gave up on me.

[SteamWake]

Your lucky they dident run your butt over !

oh on the 5 thing... heh Ive done that too

another favorite is to hit the s instead of d :oops:

[bobo]

To add to Snuffy's fine tactic.......If you find that they're already actively pinging you to begin with and are haulin butt on a CBDR course then they've found you. At that point the only thing you can do is go flank and evasive maneuvers. Check the chart and try to get to the next drop off if possible or, If you manage to survive a bit and get in their baffles go all stop/silent and coast to the sea floor gently. The chances of getting away while detected in shallow water is slim to none but not entirely impossible.

[pocatellodave]

In his book Skipper Crider once followed his torps towards target to try and throw off "Cans" in the shallow water of the South China Sea.I don't remember if he shut down everything and sat on the bottom,but the Flasher survived.If I was a WWII submariner,I would curse my luck if my mission was to patrol in shallow water areas.My guess is that most submarines that were lost,were lost in shallow water.
Pocatellodave

[Fearless]

Try using the decoys. Actually I'm quite surprised that I could use them in my Salmon in early 1942.

[zylark]

See that body of ocean starting from Jawa/Borneo and moving all the way towards French Indo China (aka Vietnam)?

I stay out of it :p

[Chock]

Depends on how 'realistic' you want to be.

We all know that in SH4 it's fairly easy to get the sort of score that would have seen you being voted in as the next President of the US. But that's because there is no danger in taking chances with your virtual sub. Which is why SH tonnage scores are usually way in excess of the real figures.

In real life of course things are very different; even if you personally had the balls (or stupidity) to choose an engagement in shallow water, as opposed to picking a place to engage where you have a better tactical advantage. I doubt very much whether your crew would appreciate you risking their lives in such a manner, and responsibility towards the welfare of your crew, and your boat is an imporant consideration too, even in a simulation.

So if you want to emulate a realistic sub patrol, here are a couple of quotes from Sun Tzu's The Art of War which might prove useful...

'The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage and strictness.'

'With his forces intact he will dispute the mastery of the Empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph will be complete. This is the method of attacking by stratagem.'

Notice that SunTzu lists wisdom before courage! In other words, sometimes it is better to leave a target alone and go for a better opportunity. A glorious five minute battle which results in the loss of your sub is not a good substitute for a boat which survives to fight again and again!

Not everything in The Art of War stands up as a paragon of wisdom of course, but there are lots of bits of it which are useful to adopt. However, if you prefer a couple of assesments of the smart way to fight a war from more recent times, try these:

Douglas Bader's take on things: 'War is not a game of cricket.' - by which he meant that offering the enemy a sporting chance to shoot back is alright for sport, but in war the reality is that it's better to shoot someone in the back while they aren't looking if you want to win.

Manfred Von Richtofen: 'It's the job a fighting pilot to destroy the enemy, anything else is rubbish.' - by which he meant that although he was often accused of taking on planes which were at a disadvantage, and refusing to give people a 'sporting chance', it was not his job to be sporting, it was his job to kill people and survive to be able to do it again and again. And if that meant nailing some poor RFC flyer with a few hours of flight experience flying an inferior aeroplane, that that was their tough luck. If his enemy was at a tactical advantage, then it made perfect sense to not even get into a fight in the first place.

So the biggest tip I can suggest is to choose your battleground more wisely, and then kick the S.O.B.s while they aren't looking.

The scenario in the original post is one where you would have to weigh up the pros and cons of sinking a ship and risking your sub, versus passing it by and looking for a target where the outcome was more assured, and then being in a position to do it again and again.

I'd personally go for living to fight another day and the possibility of more tonnage for less risk. Engaging in shallow water with destroyers about is just asking for trouble. Especially as, in real life, the enemy wouldn't even need sonar, they'd be able to look over the side and see you under the water, especially with help from an aeroplane, which you could be damn sure they would radio for.

Therefore, the best way to avoid being attacked in shallow water, is to not get into a fight in shallow water. :D

[zylark]

It is just that risk assesement that makes this a sim, and not just another game. :yep:

[jerryt]

Douglas Bader's take on things: 'War is not a game of cricket.' - by which he meant that offering the enemy a sporting chance to shoot back is alright for sport, but in war the reality is that it's better to shoot someone in the back while they aren't looking if you want to win.

Manfred Von Richtofen: 'It's the job a fighting pilot to destroy the enemy, anything else is rubbish.' - by which he meant that although he was often accused of taking on planes which were at a disadvantage, and refusing to give people a 'sporting chance', it was not his job to be sporting, it was his job to kill people and survive to be able to do it again and again. And if that meant nailing some poor RFC flyer with a few hours of flight experience flying an inferior aeroplane, that that was their tough luck. If his enemy was at a tactical advantage, then it made perfect sense to not even get into a fight in the first place.


I really need to send this to the morons in the US Congress. :damn:

[BBury]

I went dead silent on the floor of Java Sea. The DD's circled aorund looking and after a couple hours they found and killed me. That really made me mad. I didn't think it was possible sitting quitly on the bottom but with AI I guess anything's possible.

[SteamWake]

I went dead silent on the floor of Java Sea. The DD's circled aorund looking and after a couple hours they found and killed me. That really made me mad. I didn't think it was possible sitting quitly on the bottom but with AI I guess anything's possible.

One would think that it would be fairly easy to see a large submarine sitting on the bottom in shallow water in crystal clear water.

[Calbeck]

If you're not plowing around whipping up a bow wave and wake, AND the water is exceptionally calm. Any waves of any kind can and will distort images, not to mention potentially draw clouds of silt from the sea bottom.

[Silence]

I understand a common tactic for all subs is to sprint and drift, doing each for a set amount of time and constantly changing directions. Has worked for me thus far in only my second mission. Have found the DD's to be a little soft though, as I haven't had close calls with them yet. Am I being too careful? :hmm:

[jerryt]

Did they fix the taking damage from sitting on the bottom thing with 1.2? I remember trying this with 1.1, and my sub kept taking damage. I'll have to try it again tonight.

[Kant Schwimm]

Did they fix the taking damage from sitting on the bottom thing with 1.2? I remember trying this with 1.1, and my sub kept taking damage. I'll have to try it again tonight.

Hmm in 1.1 and 1.2 I just drift to the bottom carefully without propulsion, never seem to take damage, maybe just your approach angle and speed thats the prob.:yep:

[BBury]

I went dead silent on the floor of Java Sea. The DD's circled aorund looking and after a couple hours they found and killed me. That really made me mad. I didn't think it was possible sitting quitly on the bottom but with AI I guess anything's possible.

One would think that it would be fairly easy to see a large submarine sitting on the bottom in shallow water in crystal clear water.

I could see that if it was light enough outside. :hmm: I think it was the improved escorts mod. They could hear the cook cleaning his toe nails and came over a couple of miles to see what it was.

[FIREWALL]

Hey guys


On my third tour, i got caught out by a pair of Mutsuki Destroyers in the shallow waters around Singapore when i was lining up a shot on a passenger liner.
(i pressed 5 instead of F4 :) )

Anyway needless to say i was in Deep S*** and shallow water...

No room to dive, no speed to escape and they were on top of me.

Tips?




PRAY ? :D

[joea]

Try using the decoys. Actually I'm quite surprised that I could use them in my Salmon in early 1942.

Decoys? The USN never used decoys on its subs in WWII. :doh: