Aggressiveness & Effectiveness of DDs?

[MarkShot]

Admittedly, I need more targetting practice, but this question is mainly about evasion.

This is with the stock SH3. I set up a practice mission with a convoy of about 20 T3 Tankers and 6 V&W destroyers (veteran) against my Type VIIC. I also tried playing the Barham single mission which must have something like a screen of 10 destroyers.

In both cases, the destroyers were pretty much oblivious to the presence of a sub. They did not aggressively attack and when they did attack, they were anything but effective. It was fairly easy to go deep, sprint during the first DC run, and then creep away while running silent.

After having played AOD and SHCE, generally getting cornered by more than 3-4 escorts in AOD and 4-5 SHCE is the kiss of death. They usually form a circle about you from which you cannot break out as they hunt you down/wear you down. Here the destroyers hunting you don't seem to circle that much. They seem to sit and listen more and then finally drop some DC. In fact, they seem to drop lots of DC, but I have no idea where they are dropping them; not around me.

So, am I missing something or is the stock game such that escorts are not that hard to evade?

* Note: I do have a 16km viz mod loaded. Could that have broken the escorts?

Thanks.

[Brag]

I never done missions. In career mode the stock SHIII destroyers are reasonably deadly. Sp are the GWX units. Though ocasionally you run into idiots.

[Keelbuster]

The AI blows, IMO. I think it's mostly hard-coded, and all modders can do is make the sensors super-effective. From what i remember about being detected, the escorts don't really form a good circle around you - that would be a simple, logical, effective tactic. Rather, they do small circles, they plow around, somethings get stuck in each other's paths...stop...indefinitely. Or they blow themselves or each other up with DCs....or they just can't find you in the first place. I'm at patrol 12 right now, jan '43, and i still haven't been detected this career. I'm dying to get detected. I'm silent running under a convoy right now and it's taking all my effort not to fire a decoy in frustration.

[MarkShot]

Yes, I was literally during my Barnham practice surfacing and saying here I am and then diving. (That alone in SHCE would have gotten your hull completely shot up within 4-8 kyds of anything with a gun.)

That's very depressing to hear about the AI. SH2 also had a fairly brain dead AI too despite all the fantastically talented work the Pacific Aces team put into it.

So far, AOD has the best escorts I have seen. They run various continuous search patterns. They are in continuous hunt mode unlike SHCE escorts that will not go active until a fish is fired or something blows up. As I said, they will generally surround you and then take turns once someone has you, charging over you and making attacks. They may not damage you, but they slowly run down your battery and compressed air. Your best chance to survive is to displace as soon as you shoot like a sniper, before they can get to the spot. After that, the next best thing is to try to break contact with the first one or two on the scene; even if you have to run faster and not be stealthy, because when the pack finally arrives it will be too late. SHCE's escort were easier to fool. You could from time to time draw them all over to one side of the circle and then exit the opposite side. Also, SHCE's escort were suckers for stern tube shots at PD. In AOD, it's very hard to hit an escort; you escape from them, but you don't kill them.

So, is all that happens in the super mods is that ship sensor files get sonar on steroids and DC blast radius is increased? Boy, that would be a shame ... if I still end up playing AOD after just getting a brand new system. :(

[MarkShot]

Okay, I took some time to read the GWX AI thread which explained quite a bit of what I seen in my practice runs so far.

It turns out that I was following appropriate tactics and they appear to be more effective early war than they are in AOD. Basically, I was running silent at 1kts below 200M. Effectively, making me invisible.

From AOD experience going deep accomplishes two things:

(1) Less likely to be detected.
(2) More time to maneuver when DC are dropped directly on you as they need time to sink to your depth.

Real world: I believe the blast radius of DCs was diminished with increase depth.

I ran some tests running silent at 50M and I was found by ASDIC and happily sunk.

---

Of course, does this mean that early war patrols are simply a turkey shoot, since unless you are foolishly aggressive, then you should always be able to disengage?

At what month and year should I begin my campaign to make it interesting such that disengaging from the escorts is not a sure thing?

Thanks.

[Vacillator]

About early war patrols, I think if you are a seasoned Kaleun and know what you're doing you should have no trouble racking up a big score with little comeback. Plus by the time things are getting harder, at least your crew has developed and your boat is upgraded.

When I started with SH3 I immediately installed GWX and didn't have a clue at first so I had a fairly hard time wrt detection. Now I'm a bit better ;).

Depends on scenario as well. I tried the Operation Drumbeat mission last night for fun and a look at a Type IX for a change. American warships sure are poor at that stage of the war! As for the Type IX, I liked it a lot :yep:.