A seemingly stupid question

[Telgriff]

Have looked through the various posts, newbie guides and GWX guides, and one questions seems to elude a direct answer for me (or I am totally blinded by bernard)

For the front escorts on convoys, if you are setup ahead of the convoy, is there any specific way to avoid being pinged. I have run silent at 150+ meters, or at a complete stop and silent and still manage to get pinged and end up having to either fight it out or run for it. I had a look at some approach strategies for convoys in GWX on here and on external websites but I seem to always get the same result....pinged by the front escort.

Any recommendations?

[P_Funk]

Generally speaking the whole "submerge ahead and drift til you're in the middle" thing doesn't work with GWX and especially later in the war. Later war Asdics can go down 300+ meters. As I recall Ducimus said that you need to go at least 200 meters to get underneath an early war asdic.

The best approach is to come in from a frontal angle through an escort gap. You wanna avoid a frontal move since the frontal escort is gonna literally be looking straight ahead. The closer you are to the baffles the better too. You need to maneuver nearly as much as the escorts themselves sometimes if the screen is big.

Think of it as a very different game of Frogger.:up:

[Telgriff]

Generally speaking the whole "submerge ahead and drift til you're in the middle" thing doesn't work with GWX and especially later in the war. Later war Asdics can go down 300+ meters. As I recall Ducimus said that you need to go at least 200 meters to get underneath an early war asdic.

The best approach is to come in from a frontal angle through an escort gap. You wanna avoid a frontal move since the frontal escort is gonna literally be looking straight ahead. The closer you are to the baffles the better too. You need to maneuver nearly as much as the escorts themselves sometimes if the screen is big.

Think of it as a very different game of Frogger.:up:

So 200+ meters for early war depths and come from an angle that will put me behind the DD screen or as close to its baffles as possible. My main problem is I end up in a shootfest with a couple of DD's (who usually end up taking a trip to the sea floor) while I watch the convoy wander off as more and more DD's come out of nowhere.

Fun fun, am going to have to work on my convoy approach tactics!

[Canovaro]

Doesn't sound like a stupid question to me, I never found any specific tactic either on the boards.

[Umfuld]

http://usera.imagecave.com/33433/SHIII/01.JPG


A is the lead escort. Note my AOB is making me a very small target.

B is the next closest escort. Once A has passed a bit I will switch the focus of my AOB to B, if possible.

C shows where the outside row of the convoy is going to be when they reach my position. As you can see I'm just about in it's path already. Even at 1.5 knots I can easily move out of its path when the moment is right and proceed towards my target inside the convoy.



Oh, and of course - I'm under water. : /

[danlisa]

In my experience, you don't have to be deep to penetrate a convoy. It is the correct tactic for evasion but you can be at periscope depth when approching/entering a convoy.

The best way to practice this is to have map updates on, that way your can click on the escorts and 'see' their sensor arcs. Usually, there is a lead escort and a flanking escort, use this method to plot your course between them.

Only do this after a period of observation as both escorts will peel away from their course and conduct sensor sweeps. If you try this you will see that it is very easy to infiltrate a convoy in early war. Things change dramatically in later years but the basics are the same.

Good hunting.

[Jimbuna]

Depth is not absolutely necessary :nope: Stay to the side of the escort by a distance of at least 1500 metres. When he's past you sneak in before a flank escort reaches your approximate area. This is not an exact science because on occassion they will detect you :yep:
Good luck :arrgh!:

[Umfuld]

I made 4 runs at this one convoy last week and I noticed a nice pattern:

One of the flanking escorts broke away from the convoy for a good 4,000-5,000m and then came back. (okay, I really don't remember how far away it went, but it was a sizable distance)

http://usera.imagecave.com/33433/SHIII/0000.PNG

I noted the time. It was 45 minutes past the hour.

Then the next time I attack this same convoy the same escort did it again. I looked at the game time and it was again 45 minutes past the hour.

Same thing happened the next time I attacked this same convoy. Again about 45 minutes past the hour.


I didn't end up using any of these gaps because it was very early in the war and I really didn't need any help getting in undetected. But it's certainly something I'm going to look for as the escorts improve down the road.

No idea if this is something added to GWX or if it's stock behavior or what, but it sure was neat.

[P_Funk]

Exactly. All thopse replies are great. I don't think that I really explained mine very clearly.

:up:

[Vacillator]

I had some luck infiltrating a July 1940 GWX1.03 convoy last night, on the surface, in the dark. Call me Otto ;). I was ahead of it, off to one side. It had three escorts, one either side slightly leading the convoy and one behind. I stayed at 2 kts and let the nearest front escort get fairly close, then went to ahead full (faster than the Black Swan was going) and pulled away from him and in towards the path of the convoy.

As it was dark I got away with it. A minute later I was just in front of lanes 1 and 2 of the convoy facing at right angles to their path, and the front escorts were drawing away. Sat there (even though I was going red on the detection display a lot!) and waited until I had two lovely big whalers in front and a large merch directly behind. I only had 5 eels left so went for two each for the whalers, stern tube for the merch, all on impact at around 4m depth.

At this point my Otto routine (or nerve) failed me and I hit C. Went to 150 metres then silent running at 2 kts, course roughly opposite that of the convoy but avoiding the rear escort. Got 2 lots of distant depth charges, then nothing! And then the payout - all three ships sank in about three minutes. Over 35,000 tons and not a scratch on me. Nice!

Not quite Otto as he would never have sat in one place or crash dived unless absolutley necessary but nearly.

[Lzs von swe]

As Dan and Jim said, go in at Pd at some 45´ ish angle and silent running. Keep your conning tower below the waves and use your scope only for short periods.
Later war, use your standoff range to keep out of the escort screen, if possible. Fire your torpedoes at close to maximum range, scope down, dive and break away.

[Canovaro]

@ Umfuld:

Maybe a stupid question, but what are al this gray lines between A and B?
I never seen them in game so did you draw all those?


btw thanks for the picture.

[danlisa]

@ Umfuld:

Maybe a stupid question, but what are al this gray lines between A and B?
I never seen them in game so did you draw all those?


btw thanks for the picture.

They are Hydrophone contacts. There are 2 reasons whyyou may not have these, First - you have no Hydrophone Operator at the station, Second - You have No Map Updates on.

[Vacillator]

@ Umfuld:

Maybe a stupid question, but what are al this gray lines between A and B?
I never seen them in game so did you draw all those?


btw thanks for the picture.
They are Hydrophone contacts. There are 2 reasons whyyou may not have these, First - you have no Hydrophone Operator at the station, Second - You have No Map Updates on.

There are a couple of ruler lines drawn on there as well at the left hand side. Done with the ruler tool in the menu at top right on map screen.

[danlisa]

@ Umfuld:

Maybe a stupid question, but what are al this gray lines between A and B?
I never seen them in game so did you draw all those?


btw thanks for the picture.
They are Hydrophone contacts. There are 2 reasons whyyou may not have these, First - you have no Hydrophone Operator at the station, Second - You have No Map Updates on.
There are a couple of ruler lines drawn on there as well at the left hand side. Done with the ruler tool in the menu at top right on map screen.

Or does he mean the grid lines?:doh: :damn:Everything is grey.:rotfl:

[Canovaro]

Or does he mean the grid lines?:doh: :damn:Everything is grey.:rotfl:

Now stop making fun of me or I'll kick you in the stern!!
:rotfl:

[Brag]

I approach convoys at periscope depth, as the surface noise makes it harder to detect a U-boat. I try to avoid daylight approaches because even a quick look-see may get your scope detected.

If the escort is closer than 2,000 meters. I keep my scope down until ready to fire torpedoes. I keep ploting the escort's position by marking the spot and updating every minute.

I use GWX 1.03 (presently 1940) . On GWX 1.01 reached mid 1942. I play DID.

[Canovaro]

@ Umfuld:

Maybe a stupid question, but what are al this gray lines between A and B?
I never seen them in game so did you draw all those?


btw thanks for the picture.
They are Hydrophone contacts. There are 2 reasons whyyou may not have these, First - you have no Hydrophone Operator at the station, Second - You have No Map Updates on.

It will be the second then. Thanks.

[Vacillator]

Too tough for me Canovaro, I need my grey lines!

Happy hunting :up:

[Jimbuna]

Or does he mean the grid lines?:doh: :damn:Everything is grey.:rotfl:

Now stop making fun of me or I'll kick you in the stern!!
:rotfl:

GODVERDOMME kaaskop.......just SINK EM ALL!! :arrgh!:

:lol: :up:

[Canovaro]

Or does he mean the grid lines?:doh: :damn:Everything is grey.:rotfl:
Now stop making fun of me or I'll kick you in the stern!!
:rotfl:
********** kaaskop.......just SINK EM ALL!! :arrgh!:

:lol: :up:

Hmmm the ********* part was not appreciated :down:


But the rest was! ;)

[Jimbuna]

Yep...roger that :arrgh!:

[SleightOfHand]

To (slightly) hijack, the thing that bothers me most about contact updates is that it gives you exact positions for visual contacts. I'd play with it on if it only gave bearing lines for hydrophones once a sweep, and for visual contacts when you can see them. >.>

[Puster Bill]

For the front escorts on convoys, if you are setup ahead of the convoy, is there any specific way to avoid being pinged. I have run silent at 150+ meters, or at a complete stop and silent and still manage to get pinged and end up having to either fight it out or run for it. I had a look at some approach strategies for convoys in GWX on here and on external websites but I seem to always get the same result....pinged by the front escort.

Any recommendations?
I just did that exact same thing at PD, (using GWX) and didn't get pinged. Time period is December 1940, using a VIIC on the Rockall Banks. I slipped past the front escort at about 500 - 750 meters to his port side. That distance is an estimate, I didn't leave the scope up long enough to identify him or to get a good range. I was at silent running, and deep enough that my tower wouldn't pop up (water is a little rough today).


After passing the escort, I turned 90 degrees starboard and ran out for a distance at 1/3rd speed, then turned 180 degrees to get a proper set-up on the interior of the convoy. I set up on a Dido and a Large Merchant. The Dido got 2 torps, one set under the keel magnetic, and on set to impact, 3 meters depth. At least one hit.

The LM got two eels set to impact, 3 meters depth, both aimed right below the stack. Both of those hit, and the LM and the Dido sank in minutes.

Set up a stern tube shot on another Large Merchant, this one at a bearing of about 100 degrees and heading towards me (very small AOB). I set it for magnetic, fired, and then crash-dived because a corvette was firing in my general direction. I don't think it hit, but it was a hasty shot.

So, here I am sitting at 164 meters, underneath the convoy, and no depth charges yet (it's been almost half an hour, enough time to reload 3 bow tubes and the stern tube). I'd been running at about 2 knots, but just went to 1/3rd a few minutes ago. Still no sign that they know where I am. :rock:


Edit: Spoke too soon. Apparently going faster gave away my position. They are dropping DC's, but they are either set too shallow or inaccurately dropped, as they aren't near the boat. Once tube 4 is reloaded, I'll go to silent running.

[Umfuld]

To (slightly) hijack, the thing that bothers me most about contact updates is that it gives you exact positions for visual contacts. I'd play with it on if it only gave bearing lines for hydrophones once a sweep, and for visual contacts when you can see them. >.>That's exactly how I feel. I'm just using the updates until I get a little more expirence at playing without WO assistance.


Edit: Actaully, that is what it does. The ship icons don't appear until they are in visual range, and the bearing lines from the hydro contacts are updated once a sweep. It's the exactness of the ranges that I don't like.

[Brag]

Last thoughts on the subject:

DDs come pinging only because a U-boat has caught their attention.

Here is a checklist of items of interest to DD.

Periscope showing
conning tower broaching surface
too much noise by screws and motors(2 knots max)
too much noise by crew (press Z and insure the little silent running screen is on.)
Submerging too late (you've been spotted)

[Telgriff]

Last thoughts on the subject:

DDs come pinging only because a U-boat has caught their attention.

Here is a checklist of items of interest to DD.

Periscope showing
conning tower broaching surface
too much noise by screws and motors(2 knots max)
too much noise by crew (press Z and insure the little silent running screen is on.)
Submerging too late (you've been spotted)

Made sure not to do any of the following and had a warship pass with in 2km's of me and didnt even know I was there. Unfortunately it was the rear escort for the convoy and they were getting into shallow water near LondonDerry, so I passed on that hunt.

All I need to do now is work on my course calculations for intercepting a convoy....just need to find that page that had convoy intercept steps on it, using map tools.