Manual TDC - It rocks

[daft]

Restarted the war with the desire to FINALLY (after playing subsims since before SH1) take the plunge and learn manual TDC. Took command of USS Triton and departed for the coast of Honshu for my first patrol. Topped of the fuel tanks at Midway and headed out. Conducted routine trim dives (they seem to improve diving times) on the way to the patrol area, but encountered very few aircraft and stayed on the surface for the most part.

As we arrived in the assigned area it seemed deserted. A few sampans bothered us, but we kept the deck gun secured in order to keep our presence a secret. The days were mostly spent submerged to avoid detection and on a few occations we chased sonar contacts, but they all turned out to be sampans.

On December 29th we we're released from our assigned area by ComSubPac and decided to patrol north towards Hokkaido in an effort to find some targets. Two days later the lookouts spotted two freighters heading north, too far away to identify. Immediately rang up flank speed in order to make an end around.

As dawn was approaching fast we kept a keen eye out for Japanese aircraft as we quickly overtook our targets, believed to be a large lodern split accompanied by a small passenger ship. At about 9AM the freighters suddenly veered off to the west spoiling our attack. We again began chasing to get ahead of the targets.

This was accomplished just before noon, and we submerged about 1500 yards from their projected track. Our TDC-party had a good solution in all respects but the speed of the target. They seemed to slow down and speed up again untill we were about 2500 yards from them. At this point they seemed to be stopped.

We crept closer in at 1200 yards we opened the outer doors and let fly the first two fish. Both aimed at the passenger vessel. However, the targets got under way again and both torps missed, probably to the aft. Dialed in a 6 knot speed and fired two more at the same target. Both missed, this time ahead. It was obious we had over- estimated their speed and therefore we fired two more (the last from the bow tubes) at the troop transport with a 2 knot speed setting.

Both ran true with the first one hitting just ahead of the bridge structure, tearing a large hole in the hull, clearly visible from just over 1000 yards away. The second hit just where it was aimed, smack bang under the funnel breaking the targets back and setting off several secondary explosions.

We quickly switched targets and brought our stern tubes to bear on the freighter. He didn't seem to have speeded up so we kept the speed setting of 2 knots. AoB just under 90. Two torps aimed at just below the funnel and the aft part under the engine room were let loose after a few minutes of speed calculations (just to make sure).

Both hit accurately and sent our second target to the bottom. We expended eight torps, but I'm still very proud of my first "real" sinkings. :) Manual TDC really forces me to approach this game in a whole other way. No more TC-ing until I reach my firing position. Approaches have to be handled delicately and with great care in order to result in a sinking. Sure, the chronometer is broken and the stadimiter gives faulty values, but what the heck. It's till a whole knew gameplay dimesion for me. :up:

[Snuffy]

I agreee Daft,

I've been running manual TDC since I started playing. It's amazing what manual TDC forces one to do.

I find the game experience more enjoyable too on manual.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sure, the chronometer is broken and the stadimiter gives faulty values, but what the heck. It's till a whole knew gameplay dimesion for me.

Yes these are broken or faulty but you did the right thing...get close. Reduces quite a bit of error if any is present. Nice read and it sounds like you are enjoying the game.

[Bilge_Rat]

There is nothing more satisfying than getting a kill in manual TDC.

welcome to the club.

:arrgh!:

[mookiemookie]

I chuckle to myself when the auto TDC kiddies brag about their 100,000 ton patrols. Let's see 'em try it in manual! :up:

-88% realism (I love watching ships sink with the external cam and I'm not hardcore enough for no map updates)

[SteamWake]

I chuckle to myself when the auto TDC kiddies brag about their 100,000 ton patrols. Let's see 'em try it in manual! :up:

-88% realism (I love watching ships sink with the external cam and I'm not hardcore enough for no map updates)

Hey I only claimed 57K ! ;)

I flop back and forth depending on my mood between a carrier with auto and a "full real" carrier. I call the full real carrier "Tough guy" and the former "Weenee" :p

[9th_cow]

Same here just took it up the other day.
second missions come to an early end though, still have 10 fish but thanks to damage if i drop below 60 feet i fall apart :) not a good idea to sneak into a convoy or harbour then.
trudging home slow as i can. cant surface for more than 2 seconds in daylight, god tells the IJA where i am if i do :(

anyways i somehow, more by luck than skill got a moving large passenger ship in the midst of a task force at about 1700. used all 6 fish. possibly the first sank her, but thats not important. 19K of ship is worth 6 fish.

i would say i average 4 tubes on a moving target now, unless conditions are perfect.
i certainly havent got any 100K patrols anymore.

im also less afraid of using my torps now, in the past i would ignore a 7K ship, and go for a task force or convoy instead.
now i will happily spend 3-5 fish on that one target, and be damn gratefull i had so much time to set up a nice attack :)

gauging speeds always going to be an issue. lets hope they sort that out.

seems im running into some other troubles now aswell. tried to head towards a convoys, that had me dodging depth charges for about 45 minutes.

tried to enter a harbour and was chased back out to sea :)

i think that they must be learning theyre trade.

[John Channing]

Great story and I love that you are not only using manual TDC, but actual doctrine as well (trim dives, etc).

One of the things I do while traveling to my patrol area is set up the stopwatch and then order a number of different dives (Crash dive, standard dive at various speeds, to various depths, in various weather conditions) while timing them to get a feel for how my boat reacts. Comes in very handy from time to time.

S boats can really get under fast! 15 seconds is my record so far.

JCC

JCC

[daft]

I've tried to get into the manual TDC thing in pretty much all subsims that had the option, but never really went all the way. My first sinkings in SH4 will undoubtedly be followed by countless misses and botched apporaches but this time I'll keep at it. The rewards are to great to be ignored. I loved the game before my first manual patrol, but this could quite easily develop into a subsessed sort of lifestyle. ;)

John Channing,

It seems as if these trim dives actually improve diving times when done within a certain interval. I might just imagine things, but I'll keep doing them for the historical accuracy if nothing else. :)

[9th_cow]

just a tip.
set depth about 15 feet beneath surface depth.
play about with the depth meter.
you can set up your boat so only the bridge is above water, and manable.
you can play with the depth to bring up more of the boat, or less if you desire.
crash depth times when only the tower is showing, are incredibly fast.

well worth doing when cruising in daylight. means when the planes turn up you can get down deep really fast.

[daft]

Yes these are broken or faulty but you did the right thing...get close. Reduces quite a bit of error if any is present. Nice read and it sounds like you are enjoying the game.

I love close in shooting. If my target's in a convoy that usually means I've got a few merchants between me and the escorts. If I could I'd probably replace the bow tubes with a pneumatic drill and just give the target a sweet little "kiss of death" instead of wasting a precious torp. ;)

[cmdrk]

I'm at Midway on my way back to Pearl from my first patrol. The USS Pollack dropped off an agent on the Japanese mainland, then slowly moved south along the coast.

Slipped into a small, unguarded port and found a small freighter and old tanker. It was at night, on the surface. The freighter was at a dock at a bad angle. Using manual TDC, I sent two fish at her. One hit the dock, one hit the ship. It wasn't going down so two more fish away - same results, but putting her down. Bow tubes empty, so turned to fire my two stern tubes at the tanker anchored in the bay. An easy shot and she went down. Went to full speed to reach deep water before sunrise and before help came to bottle me in. On the way out sighted a warship to the south heading my way. I showed by back end racing to deep water, went under and slipped away.

Later, found a lone merchant and started tracking. Again at night and on the surface. Conducted an end around with dawn coming on. Slipped under and closed the track. Fired two fish at her at 1600 yds. They missed aft as the steam trail looked like it didn't have enough lead. After the long tracking, I thought I had all the factors down. Adjusted speed up 2 knots and fearing it was not enough aimed for the forward mast and bridge with two fish. Dang, missed ahead. Ahead flank and left full rudder. Another adjustment, and two stern tubes hit her. But wasn't sinking, but appeared stopped. After a reload, finished her off.

Then I looked at the log. I had miss identified the last merchant. It wasn't just the speed that was off, but the range. It was a 20 foot mast height difference. The TDC on the long track synced well enough I thought, but I figure the range error introduced a speed error which seemed to correct what I saw with the TDC's position keeper.

After that, I only had 1 fish left and headed east. Then a Japanese tin can was coming at me. Down we went to PD, made a quick assessment and felt I could get off a shot. She was coming on fast, a snap fire shot went away and it hit just aft of the tin can's stack. She slowed, but headed away trailing smoke and flames. It was a satifying hit, but I wish it were two.

I find manual a lot more fun and involving. First time out wasn't too bad - 3 ships for 10k and a damaged DD with 16 torpedoes.

[minsc_tdp]

just a tip.
set depth about 15 feet beneath surface depth.
play about with the depth meter.
you can set up your boat so only the bridge is above water, and manable.
you can play with the depth to bring up more of the boat, or less if you desire.
crash depth times when only the tower is showing, are incredibly fast.

well worth doing when cruising in daylight. means when the planes turn up you can get down deep really fast.

I was just wondering about this. How realistic is this? I've done it in game, I mean, was it really done during the war? You never see footage of ships half-submerged, cruising along in order to lower their profile and avoid detection that way. It's like a poor-man's snorkel :) And presumably you're still on diesel engines?

[Sailor Steve]

No, it wasn't done. I just mentioned on another thread that running 'decks awash' is great for stealth when attacking, but it also means more resistance, which raises fuel consumption and lowers speed considerably, plus you're not on diesels; there are induction valves on the fairwater, but the chance of taking water in is greatly increased, and they don't have valve-floats like a snorkel does.

All-in-all a bad idea.

[ATR-42]

Daft,
nice work! and a great write up

this is my first sub sim, and i have to say i started out on manual targeting. i had fish all over the place, i couldnt seem to sink ANYTHING if it was staring me in the face. many weeks, countless hours, and a neat 'whiz wheel' later i love sinking boats manually! its just so rewarding to hear/see/read the "torpedo impact"! Id almost call myself accurate now...almost! speed calculations still nick me...

if your not already using it i highly recommend a whiz wheel!

i still have my share of misses and they are usually accounted for
- mis calculated speed
- when the target starts doing the Irish jig

:arrgh!:

[DirtyHarry3033]

just a tip.
set depth about 15 feet beneath surface depth.
play about with the depth meter.
you can set up your boat so only the bridge is above water, and manable.
you can play with the depth to bring up more of the boat, or less if you desire.
crash depth times when only the tower is showing, are incredibly fast.

well worth doing when cruising in daylight. means when the planes turn up you can get down deep really fast.
Good tip, I'll have to try that. Haven't tried running decks awash for some reason yet :roll: May come in handy when I'm heading south and those pesky planes show up and my SD don't detect 'em!

Had that happen tonight after not saving for 2 days, a freakin' Zeke dropped on me and destroyed everything above water - both periscope heads, radar, deck gun and AA, TBT, not to mention seriously wounded all of my deck watch crewmen - even the 2 shifts that were off-duty (and presumably below decks). Just not enough time to get under with only a visual contact.

Thanks, I'll give it a try!

DH

[Platapus]

Conducted routine trim dives (they seem to improve diving times) .....

Is this true?

Does the game model your crew gaining experience that results in faster diving times?

I dive a lot (frickin airplanes) but my crew still seems slower than molassass in December.

[daft]

Conducted routine trim dives (they seem to improve diving times) .....
Is this true?

Does the game model your crew gaining experience that results in faster diving times?

I dive a lot (frickin airplanes) but my crew still seems slower than molassass in December.

I can't say I've timed it, but it does seem as if the boat gets under faster if it has been dived within the last few hours. I think I saw someone else post the same observation a while ago. I'll have to bring out the old stopwatch tonight and see if it's really true.

[daft]

Daft,
nice work! and a great write up

this is my first sub sim, and i have to say i started out on manual targeting. i had fish all over the place, i couldnt seem to sink ANYTHING if it was staring me in the face. many weeks, countless hours, and a neat 'whiz wheel' later i love sinking boats manually! its just so rewarding to hear/see/read the "torpedo impact"! Id almost call myself accurate now...almost! speed calculations still nick me...

if your not already using it i highly recommend a whiz wheel!

i still have my share of misses and they are usually accounted for
- mis calculated speed
- when the target starts doing the Irish jig

:arrgh!:

Thanks ATR! I think you started out right. I tried manual TDC in SH1 but never had the patience to stick with it. Years of auto TDC does seem to help in judging AoB though, so all these years weren't wasted. :)

[daft]

[snip]
I find manual a lot more fun and involving. First time out wasn't too bad - 3 ships for 10k and a damaged DD with 16 torpedoes.

Historically speaking that would be a pretty good average. Early in the war I think the average number of torps fired per sinking were around eleven. Considering we seem to have fewer duds and erratically running torps in SH4 than in real life, I'd say 16 torps for 3 ships is pretty much in line with what the real submarines had to expend. :)

[Egan]

The manual TDC is one of the most fun parts of the game. I'm pretty good on AOB now and pretty good on getting the speed, but then, I tend to run a manual plot on the Nav map for this as well.

Can someone explain the purpose of the attack map for me though, I have never once used this and aside from the access to the tdc stuff I can't even see the point of it - you can't even use map tools to run a plot like you can in the nav map.

[SteamWake]

Conducted routine trim dives (they seem to improve diving times) .....

Is this true?

Does the game model your crew gaining experience that results in faster diving times?

I dive a lot (frickin airplanes) but my crew still seems slower than molassass in December.

I think it has more to do with the amount of water left in the ballast tanks more than crew skill.

Another reason not to run around with decks awash as your dragging around tons of sea water around with you.

I went on a cruise on an older boat. A converted troop transport. They would empty the pool when it was time to get underway. Same idea.

[AVGWarhawk]

The manual TDC is one of the most fun parts of the game. I'm pretty good on AOB now and pretty good on getting the speed, but then, I tend to run a manual plot on the Nav map for this as well.

Can someone explain the purpose of the attack map for me though, I have never once used this and aside from the access to the tdc stuff I can't even see the point of it - you can't even use map tools to run a plot like you can in the nav map.


The attack map is pretty much useless from what I can tell. I never use it, no need. I do, however, use my crayons on the attack map. ;)

[AirborneTD]

I set up manually what I think is a good solution. I hit the PK button and then go to the Attack map to verify my solution. If the white target indicator is on my target and the AOB indicator is pointing in the right direction I have a good match.

Note, you must hit the PK button at the periscope or TBT stations or the white target indicator will not show up.

[Kataki]

I chuckle to myself when the auto TDC kiddies brag about their 100,000 ton patrols. Let's see 'em try it in manual! :up:

-88% realism (I love watching ships sink with the external cam and I'm not hardcore enough for no map updates)


:) I had a 200k Ton patrol with manual 88% realism manual TDC once