When to use AP .vs HE?

[Kayback]

I've searched the forum, and I can't find anything worthwhile on this topic.

When do you use HE's and when do you use AP rounds for your deck gun.

The last SH game I played was SH1, and I absolutely loved it. Even on the higher settings I could often sink many more ships by stalking lone merchants or troop carriers and hitting them with the cannon than by attacking fleets with my torpedo's.

The only memorable torpedo fleet attack I ever made in SH1 was a head on shot against the Yamato battleship, wich resulted in me sinking it and playing dodgem with it's support craft for the next 3 hours. Wicked mission.

I was deadly with the deck gun.

However in SH4 I seems to be driving around and around pumping shot after shot into the smallest little cargo vessle and not significantly damaging it.

I'm assuming it's AP for war vessels and HE for lighter skinned vessels? Or is it AP for shooting under the waterline?

I've got another question as well, another thing I've searched for and can't find. The game crashes with 100% certanty every time I launch my, ummm, launch. Either to drop off people or supplies, the hame goes to a black screen, hangs, and eventually crashes. I can't find reference to a fix to this. Does the 1.2 patch fix this, and do you need to start a new career after every patch?

KBK

[SteamWake]

I dont really know if it makes any difference but it makes sense to me (shrug).

I use AP when aiming at the water line. HE for everything else.

[Herr Karl]

I dont really know if it makes any difference but it makes sense to me (shrug).

I use AP when aiming at the water line. HE for everything else. Yeah, I use AP for finishing off my victims by aiming at the water-line also. I like to save my torpedoes whenever possible.I use the HE especially to target opposing guns.

[DragonRR1]

I dont really know if it makes any difference but it makes sense to me (shrug).

I use AP when aiming at the water line. HE for everything else. Yeah, I use AP for finishing off my victims by aiming at the water-line also. I like to save my torpedoes whenever possible.I use the HE especially to target opposing guns.

Yup :up:

[TheBrauerHour]

I use AP for waterline and for the Armored guns on some merchants. I also use AP to punch holes where I think the boilers are. If I see a tanker or merchant with barrels or boxes on deck, I then switch to HE. I also put a couple of HE rounds in the bridge of a ship just for laughs if they have ticked me off. All wooden ships (Sampan, junk) automatically get HE.

Due to realistic flooding of compartments, imagine that it will take a while for a ship to sink. The japanese crewmembers wouldn't just sit by while you punch holes in their ship, they would attempt damage control in hopes of saving the ship until the help they radioed for arrives. Unless you hit some explosive cargo or get a shot into a boiler, don't expect a fast Deck gun attack.

[CaptainHaplo]

Unless your just having some fun and playing with the Autogun mod! :rock:
Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

[IsaanRanger]

Unless your just having some fun and playing with the Autogun mod! :rock:
Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

I remember that, I had the trainer in SH3, It even works with GWX and the autogun is enabled. you should try enabling it and go Flank speed into the Gibraltar Strait. I was popping off PT Boats and Destroyers as I zoomed past. Yes its cheating, but was fun with Unlimited Ammo and Automatic Fire. My crew did a good job.

[tycho102]

Always lead off with HE's to the cargo. Catching the deck cargo on fire seems to slow the boat faster than AP's to the engine, and with passenger liners, HE's into the berthing area will put that sucker under in a dozen shots.

Plus, the fire and smoke help "mark" your target -- especially at night.

[nattydread]

Im not sure if it applies in game, but Ideally you'd want to use HE on unarmored, thin skinned targets, use AP for armored targets(anything bigger than a Destroyer)

The AP shells would theoritcally leave only a small hole in the merchants ships no bigger than your fist (assuming they are only kinetic rounds with no explosive charge), allowing for less flooding, the HE on the other hand would take that same ship and put a hole in it big enough to fit your head through if not your torso.

Most of the HE damage will be on the hull, but if you desire to damage internals like engines and stuff, you want to use well placed AP. The AP on the engines would certainly cripple the ship eliminating is abilty to maneuver and get away, but the AP's contribution to sinking would be minimal unless it set off a secondary explosion.

The HE on the other hand will cause the big gaping holes that will allow for flooding while possibly setting off fuel easier than AP, thus making HE more likly to set off those catastrophic secondary explosion to really rip the ship up, causing structural failure.

[C-4]

I use AP to calibrate my gun, and to determine enemy range by test-fire, and everything else with HE. Until I run out of HE.

[Mudrik]

I too try to use AP to punch holes in the waterline or create holes that I can then pump some HE at.

The deck gun is a very underrated weapon and I find that it is best used to either attack lone ships or finish off ships after a torp attack.

All I would like is some more deck gun ammo. There must have been space somewhere in a sub for a few hundred extra rounds

[nattydread]

I too try to use AP to punch holes in the waterline or create holes that I can then pump some HE at.

The deck gun is a very underrated weapon and I find that it is best used to either attack lone ships or finish off ships after a torp attack.

All I would like is some more deck gun ammo. There must have been space somewhere in a sub for a few hundred extra rounds

On an unarmored vessel HE doesnt need AP to makes holes for it, HE should do a vastly superior job of opening large holes on a merchant compared to an AP round.

AP is like a sniper round, it can quickly disable systems if it hits in the right place and essentially kill the ship...but not neccesarily sink it which is the objective. HE is like a shot-gun, not very precise but spreads the damage around so much it litterally tears the ship apart causing structural failure which leads to the ship sinking much faster...even though its systems and propulsion may still be intact and functioning.

[Fearless]

AP for the waterline and HE to watch the fireworks :lol:

[nattydread]

Why AP for the water line? If you hit the hull at the water line the hole will be more than enough to cause flooding. Now if you want to hit below the water line, use AP, it would hoepfully have the energy to power through the water and still penetrate the hull I guess. But consider this, Ap is a pure kinetic round, once the round hits the water it experiences a density of 1000 times greater than teh air it was going through. Im not a physicists, but since drag is exponentinal, I believe the square of the velocity or something, your available kinetic energy goes down significantly. So your handicapping the only thing that round has going for it. The lower you try and hit the hull the worse it'll be since it will have more water to pass through. use HE at the water line and the explosion will tear a hole below the waterline and above leaving a bigger hole to flood as the ship beigns to sink and list.

[deamyont]

There are explosives in AP rounds aswell, its not just a ball of steel inside...

[nattydread]

There are explosives in AP rounds aswell, its not just a ball of steel inside...

The AP rounds on our vessels also contain HE? I know some types of AP rounds have HE, but i didnt know the AP rounds used in game had them. Is there some where we can confirm this. If so, The AP would be best for internals and HE for hull. I assume the AP has a delayed fuse to allow it to penetrate with a small hole, and cause explosive damage in side...still not neccesarily the best round for causing flooding.

[EMAPhil]

AP rounds will go right through some targets, you can see the splash the other side sometimes. If they do explode its delayed a bit.:o

[GnarPow]

AP rounds will go right through some targets, you can see the splash the other side sometimes. If they do explode its delayed a bit.:o

I have personally seen this myself as well... start firing AP just above waterline on a merchant and you see splashes coming up from behind them.

My favorite use for AP is when I am at the ship's 12 or 6 o clock and I fire it square into the stern or bow hoping that the same rule applies as above. Potentially firing AP through the whole length of the ship or a fair amount of it destroying internals.

[Sailor Steve]

AP rounds will go right through some targets, you can see the splash the other side sometimes. If they do explode its delayed a bit.:o

I have personally seen this myself as well... start firing AP just above waterline on a merchant and you see splashes coming up from behind them.
They actually modelled that? That's great!:up:

[SteamWake]

Ive seen the splash just BEFORE it strikes the hull, usually followed by a boom and some explosion.

I have yet to see a shell pass through a target. But then again I might have missed it.

[Kayback]

Thanks, basically the idea is to keep going as I am.

I assumed the rounds in the game were either HE frag style rounds, or solid core AP rounds. I do know eventually in the war they had HEAT and HESH rounds that they used in anti tank weapons, but I assumed the cannons on our subs just used good old solid rounds.

One exploit I've found, and I wonder if the updates fix, is the beauty of the 40mm Bofor gun.

It takes about as many rounds (IMHO) from the Bofor as from the deck gun, only the Bofor is an auto, and it chews up enemy ships. Anything from a Destroyer down goes POP after very few Bofor rounds.

I do understand the difference between the AP and the HE in real world terms of ship damage, but I'd assume it's kinda difficult for even the best trained Japanese sailors to do damage controll when every 10 seconds another Tungsten core 4" rounds slices through the working area.

And yes, I have seem shoot throughs with the deck gun. It's a nice touch.

KBK

[Bane]

A related question if I may: Is there any way to get your gun crew to switch ammo types short of manning the gun yourself? I prefer to let my gun crew do the shooting while I watch through the binocs.

[SteamWake]

A related question if I may: Is there any way to get your gun crew to switch ammo types short of manning the gun yourself? I prefer to let my gun crew do the shooting while I watch through the binocs.

Good question. Not that I know of.

[Kayback]

Not that I know of either. I've had by bastard gunners use all my 20mm HE, that I was saving to rake Sampans , against bloody Betty bombers who were no threat anyway.


KBK

[Bane]

Well that seems a little silly to me. An AP and HE button under the deck gun menu would make sense, if such a command is even possible in the game engine.

[Palidian]

AP round are explosive as well just not as big, they also require some armor to detonate. Hence people noticing them passing threw. Some AP round also had a delay before they detonate. One should use the AP round against the armored ships, light cruisers and up where the HE rounds will not be effective. HE rounds should be more effective then AP rounds against unarmored targets.

[crazypete]

AP round are explosive as well just not as big, they also require some armor to detonate. Hence people noticing them passing threw. Some AP round also had a delay before they detonate. One should use the AP round against the armored ships, light cruisers and up where the HE rounds will not be effective. HE rounds should be more effective then AP rounds against unarmored targets.


Which begs the question....who is engaging cruisers on the surface with a single 4 inch popgun?

[kakemann]

Try attacking the Yamato with the AA gun - now thats suicide :yep:

[Bane]

Which begs the question....who is engaging cruisers on the surface with a single 4 inch popgun? I've engaged destroyers on the surface, just for giggles. I was able to sink three out of four while taking minimal damage myself. The fourth rammed me and sunk us both.

[Snuffy]

One HE usually does a sampan in ...

AP for waterlines.

[hacksaw412]

I usually start off with AP until I get the ship in trouble, and then some HE to finish them off, as I find myself targeting the mast so that I can drop that Jap flag into the ocean before they go down!

Rich K

[nattydread]

Has anyone noticed that firing at the "waterline" doesnt actually fire at the waterline, but at the reference location of the ship that is normally at the waterline during normal laoding.

So when the ship is flooded and lying low in the water, the deckguners aim at the reference waterline which is now way under water.

Are our rounds actually passing through all that water and still having enough energy to penetrate the hull in the case of APs, and in the case of HE are the rounds not detonating on the water, but instead traveling through the water for 30-60ft and then detonating on the hull?

[subroc]

He for waterline and above, AP for deck plates to the waterline depending on hull strength. I also like to use HE as a firestarter on any ship in a fog bank start em on fire and its easier to find them again through the fog.. also on the missions I make in the mission editor I fill the holds of the cargo ships, tankers and Passenger liners (some have 2 holds) with FUEL, AMMO, and other explosive items makes really cool fireworks when lit off by a well guided HE round.