Taking damage for no reason

[kakemann]

Hi!

I'm trying to understand why my sub sometimes takes damage while attacking convoys or task forces. I've experienced it a couple of times now.

One of my experiences:

I saved a game before attacking a task force. I was lying at all stop,perscopedepth waiting for the fuso battlehip to pass. I had a Porpoise sub. When i got a nice fireangle i fired 4 torpedoes at it, and 2 aft against a nearby destroyer. I hit the battleship 3 times and the destroyer with both torpedoes. went to 40 metres.still all stop.

A nearby destroyer started moving towards me, but was far away. after a minute or so the sub suddenly started to take damage. the destroyer was as i said far away.
I got serios damage and sank to the bottom.

As I said, I saved just before so I loaded the game again. This time I did the exact same thing. But I went to free cam view to see that none of my torpedoes hit me. Right after I hit the ships the exact thing happened again. I suffered damage and sank.

Anyone experienced this?
Is it a possible fix?
Thanks anyway!

[Redwine]

I experience some similar behaviour but after a severe bulkhead damage, even when it is showed as reapired.

I will give more atention to Porposise sub now... if i can see some interesting i will commnt here. I had used the Porpoise too much. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

I experience this phenom today!!! I was damage a little by aircraft. Bulkhead minor damage. I got under the convoy at 250 feet. This might have been my demise. How deep are you when this happens?

[kakemann]

I'm using metric system.. 40 metres. Thats 131 feet. Not very deep.

Could it be the porpoise sub which causes this abnormal behavior?
I'll try a clean install of the game now without any mods. I'll try to load from the same place again. Kept my savegames before uninstalling.

I was running the increased crushdepths mod and realistic batterylife mod.

Will try without any mods

Will post again soon

[kakemann]

Are you guys running any mods?

[AVGWarhawk]

I think I'm running the Salmon class. Only mods are the green light mod, reduced radio traffic and the texture mod for the depth/speed/heading guage.

[kakemann]

Ooops!

After I uninstalled the game and reinstalled again. The game won't let me load the old savegame I was talking about. Probably because I'm now running a clean install with no mods. Ohh. well. I have to start over again and see if it happens again. I'll add this thread to my subsctiptions to see if anyone else experience this - and I'll post back here if I experience anything new now.

[Redwine]

Ooops!

After I uninstalled the game and reinstalled again. The game won't let me load the old savegame I was talking about. Probably because I'm now running a clean install with no mods. Ohh. well. I have to start over again and see if it happens again. I'll add this thread to my subsctiptions to see if anyone else experience this - and I'll post back here if I experience anything new now.

Waiting...

I tested Porpoise, with no damage, and dive many times near the crush depth, maintaining sug few hours at those depths, and no evidence of suddently damage.

After take some Bulkhead damage, and bulkhead repaired, and Hull intact message.... no red bars on bulkheads... i attempt to dive... 30, 35, 40 ,45.... up to 70meters.

Stay there many minutes and suddently a full colapse ... sub loss. :hmm:

I thnik so we need to recover the hull stress percent from SH 3, or almost have some kind of advetence, like as..."Hull severelly stressed..sir ! dive not reccomended."

:up:

[kakemann]

Was that a option on SH3?

I never heard that?

Was the game modded then?

[Herr Karl]

Was that a option on SH3?

I never heard that?

Was the game modded then?

Hull integrity as a percentage is an option in SH3 as a realism setting.

[kakemann]

Hmm! Ohhh. Yes I remember... In the Crew compartment

So it would seem that when already sustained damage the sub would not take deepdives. Just like SH3.

Then I guess it's quite obvious that this is not a bug. Just that the hull integrity thing is not displayed, right!

Wonder if it is possible to make a mod of this?

[SteamWake]

Saving while submerged can cause some issues.

[AVGWarhawk]

Saving while submerged can cause some issues.

True! My incident was during a game play of 1 hour. No saves. She went down for no reason.....bummer. :oops:

[kakemann]

Saving while submerged can cause some issues.

True! My incident was during a game play of 1 hour. No saves. She went down for no reason.....bummer. :oops:

Has this one been confirmed by many here? :hmm:

[SteamWake]

Saving while submerged can cause some issues.

True! My incident was during a game play of 1 hour. No saves. She went down for no reason.....bummer. :oops:

Has this one been confirmed by many here? :hmm:

SH3 had similar issues.

[NEON DEON]

When I save and reload without leaving the game I am in, my sub will take damage for no reason.When I save and exit to the main menu or exit the game and come back and reload then nothing adverse happens.I have 1.2 installed and no mods.

[Herr Karl]

It wasn't really an issue per se. The save procedure is to surface and have no enemy contacts before making a save. Too much content during the save will muck it up for me anyway. Surfaced and no contacts is the manuals recommended way of saving in SH3.

[kakemann]

Really?

I'll have to try that then!

Thanks :rock:

[U-Bones]

I have seen this without saves.


And if you happen to catch it happening, and save tha game before you die - zero damage to hull. Bulkheads are the problem.

I know the game refers to bulkhead damage as hull damage, but this is misleading, the numbers are NOT the same - there is one hull, or boat, and several bulkheads, all with their own HP and damage. Clearly seen in saves.

Busted bulkeads lead to flooding and issues holding depth.

Hull failure simply results in everything failing and losing your diesel fuel. When that happens its over, spinny screen incoming. There are no flooding or depth keeping issues associated with hull damage.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have seen this without saves.


And if you happen to catch it happening, and save tha game before you die - zero damage to hull. Bulkheads are the problem.

I know the game refers to bulkhead damage as hull damage, but this is misleading, the numbers are NOT the same - there is one hull, or boat, and several bulkheads, all with their own HP and damage. Clearly seen in saves.

Busted bulkeads lead to flooding and issues holding depth.

Hull failure simply results in everything failing and losing your diesel fuel. When that happens its over, spinny screen incoming. There are no flooding or depth keeping issues associated with hull damage.

I'm starting to notice the hull/bulkhead deal you talking about. Today I was busy attempting to get damaged so I could work with damage control. This part of the program is just about there. I did notice if you put the mouse over the dark red line you get a number showing how long to repair. I never noticed that before.

Todays repairs went just fine. Bad bulkhead damage, almost to the top in ugly dark red. Prop, stern torps damaged. I fixed the bulkhead. Crew said hull repaired yadda yadda. So I decided to test my luck and went to 200 feet. No problem, she held. I do not know if keeping the crew on battle stations helps the cause for repairs. I did and it seems to work.

It seems the answers to the damage are looking at us right in the face but we are not seeing it. I have studied the screen and moved men around. Got to be an answer.

[perisher]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.

[DragonRR1]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.

OMG all this time :damn:

[AVGWarhawk]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.

What the...who the....get out of Dodge. Does it really???? Like I said a few posts back...it is looking me in the face and I can not see it!!!:rock: You are awesome Perisher. If only the manual....never mind. Great find and thanks!!!

[nattydread]

Is it possible you took some damage from a anti-ship gun, from a DD or merchant. perhaps it didnt seem like much, perhaps it was repaired, perhaps you didnt get a report of the damage.

Either way, any hull damage to a sub from an anti-ship gun will be critical even after so called "repairs". Dont ever assume you can do much diving after such damage, even if repaired. Honestly, how good could that patch work be out at sea with minimal tools and reources to properly repair a pressure hull.

These repairs cant be a magic first perosn shooter medic kit that makes you wjole again. The best hull repairs your guys can do is like putting a band-aid on a gun shot wound. That means shallow dives and getting home ASAP.

Hull damage from a ship gun requires a re-fit and overhual at port...not a crewman patch job.

[SteamWake]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.

Learn somethin every day....

Has anyone started a wicki yet ?

[SnowCajun]

I'm trying to understand why my sub sometimes takes damage while attacking convoys or task forces. I've experienced it a couple of times now.

I experienced that several times also, I'd saved before attacking a convoy of warships near the Japanese coast. There was nothing anywhere near me, the only thing I could figure out was I must have dived into a mine field, but I didn't know if there were mines in this game, and I didn't hear any explosions either. None of it really made sense, it sank me each time I dove, but as long as I didn't dive deeper than periscope level I was fine.

SnowCajun

[U-Bones]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.
This is NOT true. See this post.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=518285&postcount=8

Sorry, i kinda wish it was.

[AVGWarhawk]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.
This is NOT true. See this post.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=518285&postcount=8

Sorry, i kinda wish it was.


I posted in the other thread started on this mystery pop up number. Is this number for total sub damage?

[Redwine]

Hover your mouse pointer over the Damage Control Crew text label to the left of the crew boxes. A pop up will show hull integrity.

I think so it is Time to Repair and Time to flooding... not hull integrity... correct ? :hmm:

[Redwine]

I posted in the other thread started on this mystery pop up number. Is this number for total sub damage?

Can somebody put an screen shot please ?
I have the game strongly tweaked, may be i had ruined some thing...

[Torpex752]

Saving while submerged can cause some issues.

Isnt THAT the truth!! :up:

Frank
:cool:

[kakemann]

The hull damage thing is actually missing. Have I understood correctly?

[Dustyboats]

I believe I posted this somewhere else. However I am experiencing, "Damage without cause", (sometimes severe) quite often. It only appears to happen however when dived. Having said that, on two occassions now, whilst docked in harbour, a voice has cried out "We're taking damage sir!" and I haven't left the dock.
I have ignored it and carried on......all ok. I have a feeling that it may be a "voiceover" from the previous patrol when I was truly pounded and damaged.
It seems that, when severely damaged, a "fixed number of reports to that effect" are set in the game. That if you cancel the game before they run their course, we will here them in the next.......just a thought....cos I don't know how to cure it.....Dusty.

[nattydread]

I just had that odd conning tower re-damage thing, I noticed that after trying to dive to PD the conning tower was magically repaired once the dive was initiated. Then once under water all hell broke loose and the conning tower went to crap injuring deck crew also. Basically dont dive after any hull damage!

[SnowCajun]

I've also noticed before while at dock I've gotten announcements saying, "passing thermal layer, passing thermal layer" .. lol, and all without my engines even running. Oh well, some of the bugs are at least funny.

SnowCajun

[Redwine]

Well i reach to tweak many things. Hull hitpoints, bulkhead hitpoints, individual compartements hitpoints, flooding start, reapir speed.

But there is a law, when your bulhead take damage, your crush depth is reduced, itrise up some meters, simulating a stressed hull.

In my last test mission, using a Salmon with an adjusted crush depth of 114 meters, i take damage on bulkhead, red bar was not full, it was under the 50%.

I evade the 2 Akizuki, go far away, and reapir all reparable items.

Then i sail on surface many hour to permit any hidden bulkhead maintenaince.

Attempt to dive to peri depth, all OK. I sail 12 hours at peri depth, go to surface.

I was detected by another 2 anoying Akizuki. i performed a crash dive.... 40m, all OK, they attacked me, take some more damage, then i go to 50m, all OK, then i go under the thermal layer.... 60m, all OK. And evade them.

Sail on surface many hours, about 12 hours.

All reparable damage reapired.

then dive to 60m, sail there many hours at 2knots, all OK.

then go to 70m... sail at that depth many hours, all OK.

then go to 80m, my crush depth is 114m..... after few minutes.... domino effect, spining camera and sub sinks....

A small damage in my bulkhead reduce my crush depth in 34 meters.... about 30%.

There is a realtionship between the bulkhead damage and the crush depth reduction in some place but cant found it... :hmm:

May be hardcoded ?

The only way i can see up to ate, is to make the bulkhead more strong, and the depth charges powerless.... to reduce the probability of the domino effect, and reseve it for when you take really severe damage only.

Really, we need some kind of advice, in example the bulkhead item box, become yellow, orange or red indicating some kind of level of stress in the hull.

In real life, a crew sure will say you ...

"captain, we have the ribs reinforced with woods, dont dive beyond peri depth...!!!"

Still researching...., :up:

[kakemann]

Thanks Redwine. This clarifies a bit for me.

I was thinking about the USSUBPARTS files... Could the bulkhead damage settings be located there?

Haven't been looking yet.

[Redwine]

Thanks Redwine. This clarifies a bit for me.

I was thinking about the USSUBPARTS files... Could the bulkhead damage settings be located there?

Haven't been looking yet.
I tweaked that but no way... :hmm:

Your Bulkhead become strong, i twaeked the depth charges too making them more weak, i rise up the floooding point, tweaked many more things as repair coheficient, maintenance coheficient, i rise sub hull hitpoints, each individual compartement hit points...., you make the sub strong to be damaged, but when it takes damage...., the domino effect happens even when your bulkhead had taked NO DAMAGE.

If you take some considerable damage, and you dive in example under the thermal layer with a salmon, you are done.... :hmm:

Hull seems to be stressed by damage, it may be real, but in game is too anoying, you have no advertence of any kind.

Plus the damage must be taken more slowly, i make slow my crash speeds, but no way... after take damage, if you dive too much... a domino effect happens, disregarding if you rise your sub inmediatelly when sudden damage start to appears....

It is really anoying and the baddest poit in this game.

[kakemann]

I see!

It's not good that there is no indicator to show how "stressed" the hull actually is.
I wonder if any other files in the LIBRARY folder can have something to do with the sub's "armor". I'm not sure what english word to use ;)

[U-Bones]

Well i reach to tweak many things. Hull hitpoints, bulkhead hitpoints, individual compartements hitpoints, flooding start, reapir speed.

But there is a law, when your bulhead take damage, your crush depth is reduced, itrise up some meters, simulating a stressed hull.

In my last test mission, using a Salmon with an adjusted crush depth of 114 meters, i take damage on bulkhead, red bar was not full, it was under the 50%.

I evade the 2 Akizuki, go far away, and reapir all reparable items.

Then i sail on surface many hour to permit any hidden bulkhead maintenaince.

Attempt to dive to peri depth, all OK. I sail 12 hours at peri depth, go to surface.

I was detected by another 2 anoying Akizuki. i performed a crash dive.... 40m, all OK, they attacked me, take some more damage, then i go to 50m, all OK, then i go under the thermal layer.... 60m, all OK. And evade them.

Sail on surface many hours, about 12 hours.

All reparable damage reapired.

then dive to 60m, sail there many hours at 2knots, all OK.

then go to 70m... sail at that depth many hours, all OK.

then go to 80m, my crush depth is 114m..... after few minutes.... domino effect, spining camera and sub sinks....

A small damage in my bulkhead reduce my crush depth in 34 meters.... about 30%.

There is a realtionship between the bulkhead damage and the crush depth reduction in some place but cant found it... :hmm:

May be hardcoded ?

The only way i can see up to ate, is to make the bulkhead more strong, and the depth charges powerless.... to reduce the probability of the domino effect, and reseve it for when you take really severe damage only.

Really, we need some kind of advice, in example the bulkhead item box, become yellow, orange or red indicating some kind of level of stress in the hull.

In real life, a crew sure will say you ...

"captain, we have the ribs reinforced with woods, dont dive beyond peri depth...!!!"

Still researching...., :up:
Redwine have you looked in the save files ? It is possible that the hull was damaged in addition to the bulkhead. (Seperate issue). I suspect that you would find the bulkhead were really repaired, but the hull itself was damaged.

What you describe sounds like true hull damage - stable performance until collapse.

Usually, bulkhead damage, even if "hangover", will exibit flooding, damage spreading to all components in compartment, damage spreading to adjacent compartments, problems keeping depth, etc. (leading up to hull collapse)

[Redwine]

I see!

It's not good that there is no indicator to show how "stressed" the hull actually is.
I wonder if any other files in the LIBRARY folder can have something to do with the sub's "armor". I'm not sure what english word to use ;)

Armor was into the cfg files, but seems to not works in SH IV as into SH III.

Any way the armor value will make the sub more hard, but i aa sure the "domino" will still present. :hmm:

[Redwine]

Redwine have you looked in the save files ? It is possible that the hull was damaged in addition to the bulkhead. (Seperate issue). I suspect that you would find the bulkhead were really repaired, but the hull itself was damaged.
Sadly into this mission i dont save... how the bulkhead was not damaged, i was sure i could dive with no problem, but sudently my sub was crushed.

It surprised me, the domino is not bulkhead dependant.

What you describe sounds like true hull damage - stable performance until collapse.

Usually, bulkhead damage, even if "hangover", will exibit flooding, damage spreading to all components in compartment, damage spreading to adjacent compartments, problems keeping depth, etc. (leading up to hull collapse)
I think so, the hull hitpoints are refering to the sub total hitpoints.

In example if you have 6 compartements with 400 hitpoints each one, and each one takes only 100 hitpoints, no one was destroyed, all has 25% damage only, but total hit points are 600 and it overpass the total value for the sub and it sinks anyway.

Hull hitpoints i think so are related to the total hitpoint value.

[kakemann]

What about increasing the total hitpoints from 600 to a higher value? :hmm:

[Redwine]

What about increasing the total hitpoints from 600 to a higher value? :hmm:

I was using 600 into V1.1, when V1.2 out, it was the value for the stronger sub, the Balao...

I rised up the weaks subs, S18 500, Gato 566, Balao 600, and all others 566.

It seems to not help into the wek subs as Salmon in example. I rise it up from 325 up to 566 and all remains the same, domino effect still present with no changes.

May be a further increase ...about 1200 :hmm:

[kakemann]

If you do, let us know!

The hull integrity domino effect might be hardcoded, but increasing the value might help the sub keeping afloat longer!

Thanks for your effort Redwine! :D

[Redwine]

If you do, let us know!

The hull integrity domino effect might be hardcoded, but increasing the value might help the sub keeping afloat longer!

Thanks for your effort Redwine! :D
Done and nothing happens...

Attacked by 2 Akizuki, and damaged 4 bulkheads, one of them about 78% damage...

Able to scape and repair, saliling at peri depth many hours.

Sail on surface many hours, detected by another 2 Akizuki.... cash dive to 40m, attacked and scape new time.

40m all OK, during many hoursm then i decide to go deep and check the crush speed.

Go to, 45m many time and OK, 50m many time and OK, 55m many time and OK, 60m and after few minutes spin camera and domino effect.

That was with a setting of 1066 hitpoints on a Salmon into Photo Recon stock mission.

1066 hitpoints more than triple than stock seems to not solve the problem

When you take damage.... your crush depth is strongly reduced.

This is what we need to discover how to tweak...

The problem is we have no advertence of that... plus we have a "Hull is repaired sir !.... message."

[U-Bones]

If you do, let us know!

The hull integrity domino effect might be hardcoded, but increasing the value might help the sub keeping afloat longer!

Thanks for your effort Redwine! :D
Done and nothing happens...

Attacked by 2 Akizuki, and damaged 4 bulkheads, one of them about 78% damage...

Able to scape and repair, saliling at peri depth many hours.

Sail on surface many hours, detected by another 2 Akizuki.... cash dive to 40m, attacked and scape new time.

40m all OK, during many hoursm then i decide to go deep and check the crush speed.

Go to, 45m many time and OK, 50m many time and OK, 55m many time and OK, 60m and after few minutes spin camera and domino effect.

That was with a setting of 1066 hitpoints on a Salmon into Photo Recon stock mission.

1066 hitpoints more than triple than stock seems to not solve the problem

When you take damage.... your crush depth is strongly reduced.

This is what we need to discover how to tweak...

The problem is we have no advertence of that... plus we have a "Hull is repaired sir !.... message."
As soon as you get a "hull is repaired sir" message - save the game. Then look at the save file. The message is misleading and triggerd by bulkhead repairs, but bulkhead is a component with its own HP. - It is NOT the hull.

Also, the hull is not the aggregate of all the compartment HP. Hull HP is set in NSS_*.zon. Hull damage is displayed in
My Documents/SH4/Data/Cfg/SaveGames/000000nn/ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=S18
NameDisplayable=S-18
UnitName=USS S-30 (SS-135)
UpgradeClass=0
Type=SClass
UnitInterval=1920-10-29 00:00:00, 1944-01-01 00:00:00
ExternalClassName=SSS18
Nationality=American
Evolution=Normal
Damage=0.025713 ; here is a damage percentage of HP defined in NSS_S18.zon
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_s18/NSS_S18_Body_T01.tga

If you do not save your game and look at this - how can you make any statements about hull damage. It is not exposed anywhere else.

If you buff your sub to 2000 HP, or if you buff all yor compartments to add up to 2000 HP, you still have a BUGGY bulkhead that will sink your sub for no displayed reason.

The sub hulls in this game work almost perfectly.
The bulkheads are buggy. they will sink you when they show no damage.
The bulkheads are NOT part of the hull, no matter with the text message says. they have seperate HP.

[AVGWarhawk]

Anyway to bulk up the bulkheads?

[Redwine]

The message is misleading and triggerd by bulkhead repairs
I know the control for them is into the upc file.


but bulkhead is a component with its own HP. - It is NOT the hull.
You are right... i never mentioned the oposit. :up:

Also, the hull is not the aggregate of all the compartment HP. Hull HP is set in NSS_*.zon. Hull damage is displayed in
My Documents/SH4/Data/Cfg/SaveGames/000000nn/ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc
Yes... agree. Any way... Bulkhead Hitpoints or Total Hitpoints (hull) , any of both.... seems to have not effect over the "domino" effect. only makes the sub stronger, but do not stops the domino effect.


If you do not save your game and look at this - how can you make any statements about hull damage. It is not exposed anywhere else.
Are you talking about i mentioned 78% ???

It was the compartement damage percent showed at that moment ot take damage, when pass the mousecursor over, and wich seems to be in concordance with the size of the red bar into the bulkhead item.

I mentioned it to descibe the amount of damage.

If you buff your sub to 2000 HP, or if you buff all yor compartments to add up to 2000 HP, you still have a BUGGY bulkhead that will sink your sub for no displayed reason.
Sadly ... yes. :-?

The sub hulls in this game work almost perfectly.
Thats correct, was the first we tweaked.


The bulkheads are buggy. they will sink you when they show no damage.
Agree i wrote it many times too... no advertence of any kind... just a nightmare.
Plus you have the red bar rid-off... wich induce you to think the item is repaired.


The bulkheads are NOT part of the hull, no matter with the text message says. they have seperate HP.
Thats the anoying... red bar rid-off, message saying hull is repaired... but game manage hull and bulkhead as separated items.

Any thing seems to works to avoid it....

The only way is to remember you had bulkhead damage by recall, and remember indamage depth and not overpass it any more in the remaining mission time...

Anoying.... :dead:

[joea]

Mine mines mines??? Anyone know anything about those?

[Redwine]

Anyway to bulk up the bulkheads?

Sorry my bad english... with "bulk up" are refering to make it more strong ?

It is into :

C:\...\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData

File Equipment.upc , Item 36.

:up:

[Redwine]

The bulkheads are buggy.

Sorry U-Bones... do you think they are buggy... or may be an anoying intentional feature ?

If this is a bug, may be hard to solve, if this an intentional feature, may be easy to tweak if we doscover wich file or setting controls it.

I am testing now with reapir coheficient... but it seems to change repair times but "domino is still present.

I need to test now maintenance coheficient... not sure what it is... but may be the maintenace required by an item to stay on service ? :hmm:

[U-Bones]

The bulkheads are buggy.
Sorry U-Bones... do you think they are buggy... or may be an anoying intentional feature ?

If this is a bug, may be hard to solve, if this an intentional feature, may be easy to tweak if we doscover wich file or setting controls it.

I am testing now with reapir coheficient... but it seems to change repair times but "domino is still present.

I need to test now maintenance coheficient... not sure what it is... but may be the maintenace required by an item to stay on service ? :hmm:

Ok Redwine, sorry I was misunderstanding what you were saying. My bad. I guess it is possible that the domino effect is an intentional feature. If that was the case I would be OK with it _ ONLY IF they were honest about damage and displayed true state.

As it stands it is simply an undesirable frustration. My thought is that they simply don't have a handle on the damage system - or else they would have made drastic changes in 1.2.

If the damage system is not believable, then the rest of the game is pointless, immersion is broken and players are angry. It would be better to simply have a death screen - and let every one focus on the rest of the game instead of the annoying distraction that damage control currently is. I want damage control fixed though - it the the part of the game that I was most looking forward to, and I think I am not the only one. There is a lot of good content in the game that people have a hard time getting to because of stupid game mechanics that feel broken.

[kakemann]

Mine mines mines??? Anyone know anything about those?

Mines are not the problem here! :know:

[Fearless]

Saving the game whilst near attack position may well be the cause when you reload the saved game. I believe the in-game saved parameters change on reloading the game. An experience I had in SH3 as well.

[U-Bones]

Saving the game whilst near attack position may well be the cause when you reload the saved game. I believe the in-game saved parameters change on reloading the game. An experience I had in SH3 as well.
Yes, but I don't believe this is a factor in any of this. When I look at saves, I am either testing or documenting an ALREADY screwed up situation. Redwine said he wasn't saving.

I typically play a whole patrol without saving until I either RTB or have to go to bed. I certainly dont save before an attack. I always save surfaced (for play). Habit from 3

[Snuffy]

Yep. this just happened to me tonight.

I had just finished my mission and was set to head back to base for a refit when I cross the path of a convoy.

Standard procedure I radioed the contacted and then dived to avoid a head on as I only had 4 stern torps and none in the bow.

I get a radio contact from HQ says ... attack the convoy! Sheeze.

So I dive to a 40 or 50 level or so and skirt under the Iso layer and do an all stop and watch the convoy pass by from the overhead camera.

Last ship past I rise to periscope depth and the last DD notices me as I emerge from the Iso layer and heads my way. I kick the stern around and get a shot off at him but I miss cuz he's evading. I drop to 40 - 50 again and he passes over and short drops the DCs but I get no damage reports.

I'm at all stop for the better part of a real time hour as a second DD now returns from the convoy and starts playing cat and mouse with me and the other DD.

Their drops are way off .. a good 100 or more yards from anywhere near my boat. There is no call for damage or anything. I sit still for another 20 minutes then decide it's time to call it a day and head home, so I hit the return to course, and drop the boat to 100 for good measure.

So far so good the DDs are north of me as I head south and they're just DCing the daylights out of where they think I am. The convoy kept going and was off the chart as far as contacts go, so it was just me and them ... 1/3rding south and making good my escape when suddenly ...

All hell breaks loose and everyone is yelling for a medic or flooding or something is going on. I do an emergency surface but to no avail ...

I'm sittin with Davey Jones again ... and Japan has erected a statue in my honor.

Go figure.

(Fortunately, I saved the game before the contact with the convoy .. )

[Redwine]

Ok Redwine, sorry I was misunderstanding what you were saying. My bad. I guess it is possible that the domino effect is an intentional feature. If that was the case I would be OK with it _ ONLY IF they were honest about damage and displayed true state.

As it stands it is simply an undesirable frustration. My thought is that they simply don't have a handle on the damage system - or else they would have made drastic changes in 1.2.

If the damage system is not believable, then the rest of the game is pointless, immersion is broken and players are angry. It would be better to simply have a death screen - and let every one focus on the rest of the game instead of the annoying distraction that damage control currently is. I want damage control fixed though - it the the part of the game that I was most looking forward to, and I think I am not the only one. There is a lot of good content in the game that people have a hard time getting to because of stupid game mechanics that feel broken.

Come on U-Bones ! :up:All we will make a good team job for sure ! :up:
Do yoiu remember the extensive brain squeeze in the long research for DDs detection and AI sensors in SH III ? :rotfl:

OK... i understand your feelings... :up:

This game needs lot of less tweaks than SH III... many other bugs was near to solved....

I think so it is the badest point remaining.

We need a way to know when the sub is so stressed and we can dive any more, or almost have the cance toi dive at peri depth and stay quietet to back home.

I am not saying if this is a feature instead a bug, it is bad... but must not happens too often, it happens always... always you have a minor damage.

It must happen only ocasionally, when you take rally severe damage.

Stay here working to reach it... :up:



Mine mines mines??? Anyone know anything about those?

Nop... Joea... mines was not the cause of the suddent sub damage, we checked it into external virew. No explosion...

The cause is the depth, the crush depth is dramatically reduced by minor damage.


Saving the game whilst near attack position may well be the cause when you reload the saved game. I believe the in-game saved parameters change on reloading the game. An experience I had in SH3 as well.

Sadly not... Fearless, i tested always in not saved mission and it happens anyway. :up:



Their drops are way off .. a good 100 or more yards from anywhere near my boat. There is no call for damage or anything. I sit still for another 20 minutes then decide it's time to call it a day and head home, so I hit the return to course, and drop the boat to 100 for good measure.

So far so good the DDs are north of me as I head south and they're just DCing the daylights out of where they think I am. The convoy kept going and was off the chart as far as contacts go, so it was just me and them ... 1/3rding south and making good my escape when suddenly ...

All hell breaks loose and everyone is yelling for a medic or flooding or something is going on. I do an emergency surface but to no avail ...

Hi... Snuffy ! :up:

Wich sub ?

Wich crush depth into your sub ?

Are you talking in feets or meters ?

I understand wrong or you never ever take a damage in the attack ?
No damage advertence by creww, no damaged items showed ?

Many thanks for help !!! :up:

[Redwine]

Well.... in clear :

We have :

Hull hitpoints, into sub .zon file
We have Bulkhead hitpoints, into equipment .upc files.
We have compartements hitpoints, into .cfg (seems not works) and sub .upc files
We have items hitpoints, into .cfg (seems not works) and into .upc files.

Sadly into .cfg items have separated hit points, in example, left diesel engines, and right disesel engines, there we can adjust diferent hitpoints to not loss both at same time, but .cfg file doesnt works nay more fot them, into the .upc files, there are no posibility to adjust separated or asimetric hiptpints... sad.

Hull hitpoints seems to accumulate the compartemente hitpoints. Not sure if bulhead are added or not to the total accumulated value.

It means 6 compartement with 400 HP each one, you take damage on all 6, 100 HP on each one, no compartement is destroyed, but if you total sub hitpoints (hull HP) are 500, you are done.

Bulkhead, compartements, hull can be made more strong.

It retard the damage, but when you take it... domino effect is still present disregardoing how stron you made tyour sub.

The crush depth is strongly reduced after take damage.

The domino effect happens with or without Bulkhead damage, so it mus be related to hull instead bulkhead.

Domino effect happens with bulkhead reapired at all, damages reapired at all, and with message "Hull repaired sir ! "

If you takes damage at determined depth, and solve it, this seems to be the limit for next dive, in example, if you take damage at 40 meters, near 50 or 60 you will be destroyed, but surface and 40 meters you can dive normally.

So we need to remember ingame damage depth.... to not pass it never more in the remaining time for the mission.

It is dangewrous, because if you take damage at 20m, and later you watch a plane and perform a crash dive to 40m, you are done...

We can reduce this effect with the crash speed, decreasing the value to minimun to have the chance to recover the sub in case of an above error.

That is i can remember now... :up:

[kakemann]

I thought the crash speed in the *.zon sub files was time it took to make a crash dive?

I'll try tweaking these values then using the tweak tool

[Redwine]

I thought the crash speed in the *.zon sub files was time it took to make a crash dive?

I'll try tweaking these values then using the tweak tool
Nop... :hmm: it is the speed at wich your sub will be destroyed by pressure. :up:

May be in SH III works in that way, i cant remeber now.. but into SH IV it is the speed at wich the sub is destroyed by pressure.

[kakemann]

Have you changed your values?

For instance I see that Gato class has the crash time value 2.

If you have changed yours - what did you try out?

Thanks!

[U-Bones]

Have you changed your values?

For instance I see that Gato class has the crash time value 2.

If you have changed yours - what did you try out?

Thanks!
Redwine is correct - it is the speed at which your hull fails under pressure.
I have tested everything from the stock 2, all the way down to to .001

The only thing this buys you is time - is slows down pressure damage. Battle damage will kill you just as quick as it did before.

Pressure damage only damages the hull. It is the only thing that isolates damage to the hull alone.

I will say this again. The hull is not broken. The hull works very well. The hull is predictable. The hull never causes any problems - it just works until it fails. The only problem with the hull is that you do not see its damage unless you save and look at the save file. I would not even care about that if everything else worked, but right now it is info needed to troubleshoot. Too many people are talking about hull damage and never even looking at a save, which is the only place you can see it factually.

The things that do not work predictably are inside the sub.

Battle damage includes both the hull and the contents of the sub. It is not isolated damage (typically). There is a ton of confusing the behavior of the contents with the hull. If you isolate the hull damage using only pressure - it NEVER acts weird, it just gets weaker. You just have to remember that it is getting weaker. The only odd thing is that you have to surface to stop damage once it starts. Once you do that, hull damage stops until you go too deep again. The systems and compartment damage cause all kinds of complications and are never predictable.

There is also unrepairable damage. These are damaged components that never get moved into the DC queue for repair - lost cause damage. This is understandable and workable, even if it would have been nice to have it labeled as destroyed or degraded.

Then there is recurring damage. Fix the AA and next thing you know it breaks utself again and wounds crew as a bonus. This is just plain buggy.

Additionally, there is phantom damage. This damage occurs when DC claims to have repaired everthing. The save files show NO damage to the hull OR the compartments OR the equipment. But the boat will not trim or dive without sinking. Phantom damage is probably the most annoying thing I have encountered in the game.

In short Damage Control needs damage control. Badly.

[CaptainHaplo]

Ubones has it dead to rights here - damage control is wacky.

I have not seen the "ghost damage" where everything is zerod out and I still die - but that doesnt mean it aint there!

The biggest issues I have seen with Hull damage is lack of notification - you have to have SOME clue how deep your new "crush" limit is - and the weird way it models hull damage affecting bouyancy. In some ways that modelling is good - but I cant see why any dive at 50% damage to hull results in the death spiral. Something wonky there.

As for internals - there is some sense to HOW things get damaged - bulkheads take the majority of damage - the rest is overlayed semi-randomly. Fixing them however is where things make no sense. If we had some way of working with the bulkhead strength - or its relation to the hull damage assessed (is it 1:1?) then we could understand and tweak it perhaps. So far, there doesnt seem to be a way to modify bulkhead "strength" though.

One thing I have seen that I dont understand is the "no damage but my engines dont work" issue. Anyone got a clue as to whats causing this? I havent been ably to replicate it - but my thoughts are that any piece of equipment over 50% damage - is inop? If so - the code is doing some really horrible rounding off of damage - but this would also explain why "50%" is the death dive mark for hull damage as well.......

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

[U-Bones]

Ubones has it dead to rights here - damage control is wacky.

I have not seen the "ghost damage" where everything is zerod out and I still die - but that doesnt mean it aint there!
This is exibited by loss of trim and heavy boat. You don't die if you can make a surface run back to port ;)

The biggest issues I have seen with Hull damage is lack of notification - you have to have SOME clue how deep your new "crush" limit is - and the weird way it models hull damage affecting bouyancy. In some ways that modelling is good - but I cant see why any dive at 50% damage to hull results in the death spiral. Something wonky there.
This is a misunderstanding. You were correct until the 50% hull = death spiral. comment. You can have a hull damaged well over 50%, and as long as you surface to reset the damage flag, you can go back down for hours on end as long as you don't cross the unknown breaking level. (risk taking not advised). True hull damage is very stable once you surface and get it reset.

As for internals - there is some sense to HOW things get damaged - bulkheads take the majority of damage - the rest is overlayed semi-randomly. Fixing them however is where things make no sense. If we had some way of working with the bulkhead strength - or its relation to the hull damage assessed (is it 1:1?) then we could understand and tweak it perhaps. So far, there doesnt seem to be a way to modify bulkhead "strength" though.
Bulkheads have HP just like any other piece of equipment in the upc files. The temptation to buff things up is great - but you have to remember that that unbalances other things. Better to figure out how things interact first. Besides buffing the bulkeads does little - they still stink.

One thing I have seen that I dont understand is the "no damage but my engines dont work" issue. Anyone got a clue as to whats causing this? I havent been ably to replicate it - but my thoughts are that any piece of equipment over 50% damage - is inop? If so - the code is doing some really horrible rounding off of damage - but this would also explain why "50%" is the death dive mark for hull damage as well.......
I have seen the dead repaired engines once. The 50% rule you are proposing usually does not hold true. I wish people would quit saying they have 50% hull damage without knowing if they even have any. If you don't look at the save file you don't know. 50% hull damage is easily survivable, and it does not even cause difficulty holding depth at stop... The hull is the most predictible and sane acting piece of the sub damage control picture.

Just because the bulkheads say "hull damage repaired" or such, everyone thinks they have had hull damage. That string is as stupid as the "out of oxygen" message you got when you surfaced in 1.1...

Hull damage is NEVER repaired at sea.

[Snuffy]

Their drops are way off .. a good 100 or more yards from anywhere near my boat. There is no call for damage or anything. I sit still for another 20 minutes then decide it's time to call it a day and head home, so I hit the return to course, and drop the boat to 100 for good measure.

So far so good the DDs are north of me as I head south and they're just DCing the daylights out of where they think I am. The convoy kept going and was off the chart as far as contacts go, so it was just me and them ... 1/3rding south and making good my escape when suddenly ...

All hell breaks loose and everyone is yelling for a medic or flooding or something is going on. I do an emergency surface but to no avail ...

Hi... Snuffy ! :up:

Wich sub ?

Wich crush depth into your sub ?

Are you talking in feets or meters ?

I understand wrong or you never ever take a damage in the attack ?
No damage advertence by creww, no damaged items showed ?

Many thanks for help !!! :up:

Greetings Redwine,
Sorry so long in replying to this but I work 8 hours a day and then when I get home I have other things to do besides sit and play .... of course when I turned on the game to check the information you required, I got caught up in playing. So I finished the mission from where I saved it before I attacked the afore mentioned convoy and made it back to Fremantle. (That's tonight's mission.)

As for the mission you quoted, I'm in a Salmon class sub. This was our first mission in the boat as I was promoted up from my previous porpoise boat.
USS Seal be the name of my current boat.

Again I checked damage status prior to initiating the mission tonight and there is nothing showing that was predamaged. During the mission of the night before which we are talking about, the DCs never got near enough to even damage the deck guns, there was no advertisment of damage at all by the crew at any time.

I set the game to play in meters. I personally think that the math works better since meters was probably the default calculations by the Romainian programers. (?)

I was at 80, then dropped to 100 and was good at 100 for a good 35 - 40 minutes real time and I was pulling away from the convoy and the remaining DDs looking for me. I was at least a mile or better from them when the catastrophe happened.

(It didn't happen tonight though.)

[Palidian]

I have taken damage for no reason as well, several times. I have learned to save early and save often. The last one was I just dropped off an operative, and was heading out to sea, and on the surface. I got the message we are taking damage sir, nothing on the radar, nothing in sight, and no visible explosions, I was on the bridge looking around. My only explanation was maybe mines, but there was no explosions. I was not sinking, although every system was red, I did not stick around I just reloaded, and went out the same way, and no issues.

[Redwine]

Have you changed your values?

For instance I see that Gato class has the crash time value 2.

If you have changed yours - what did you try out?

Thanks!

Yes, i am using 0,1 for balao, 0,2 for gato, 0,3 for the remaining.

[Redwine]

The only problem with the hull is that you do not see its damage unless you save and look at the save file.

We need the hull damage percent back... if posible, because it can be hardcoded, or during the time to discover it, we need to take in account, when we take damage, we MUST NOT overpass anymore that INDAMAGE depth.

:hmm:

[Redwine]

One thing I have seen that I dont understand is the "no damage but my engines dont work" issue. Anyone got a clue as to whats causing this? I havent been ably to replicate it - but my thoughts are that any piece of equipment over 50% damage - is inop? If so - the code is doing some really horrible rounding off of damage - but this would also explain why "50%" is the death dive mark for hull damage as well.......

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo
Yes i had that issue, more than one time.

No visible damage of any kind, all items repaired, and no propulsion, no engine damaged, no proppellers damage.... nothing. And no diesel propulsion, no battery recharge.

I was looking to set diferential hitpoints to the engines, so when a depth charge explodes and damage them, not equal damage must be taken by the engines, and you can preseve almost some of them working.

Into the .cfg the engines has hitpoints for port and straboard, but seems to NOT works, the hitpoint seems to be now into the .upc files, and there... there is only one entry for all diesel or electric engines. :dead:

[Redwine]

This is a misunderstanding. You were correct until the 50% hull = death spiral. comment. You can have a hull damaged well over 50%, and as long as you surface to reset the damage flag, you can go back down for hours on end as long as you don't cross the unknown breaking level. (risk taking not advised). True hull damage is very stable once you surface and get it reset.

Did some body tested tweaking the Maintenance coheficient ?

May be with a better maintenance coheficient we can support the hull to maintain depth for an emergency for more time ?



Just because the bulkheads say "hull damage repaired" or such, everyone thinks they have had hull damage. That string is as stupid as the "out of oxygen" message you got when you surfaced in 1.1...

Hull damage is NEVER repaired at sea.

Yes one thing we must to do is to change that "string"....:down:

[Redwine]

I was at 80, then dropped to 100 and was good at 100 for a good 35 - 40 minutes real time and I was pulling away from the convoy and the remaining DDs looking for me. I was at least a mile or better from them when the catastrophe happened.

(It didn't happen tonight though.)
100 is too near of your "NON damage" crush depth, it will be most near or even under your new crush depth if you had teaked damage.

I assume you are ussing the recomended setting into the discussions into this forum about the crush depths, 1.5 of the test depth...thats correct ?

Then your non damaged sub crush depth is 114 meters.

I adjusted the red needle at 100m for my Salmon Class, 14m before the crush depth i am ussing...

May be.... only may be....

The original crush depth.... 76 meters is still working ?

SH IV surprise us with repetitive setting values into diferent files, a waste from SH III, but many of them seems to not works...

When we change the crush depth into the .zon file....

May be... only a supouse...
We are changing the non damage crush depth.... but...

What if some file... or hardcoded file says, when you have 50% hull damage your new crush deth is half.... but not half of the new crush depth we had adjusted unto .zon files... half of the original 76m one :huh::huh::huh::huh:

May be hal, may be one third but the original 76m....


May be posible ? :huh::huh::huh:

I note when i take damage... i always loss the sub if i attempt to go under the thermal layer 55m....

It is the half of my adjusted 114m crush depth, or about 1/3 of the original 76m one....

[CaptainHaplo]

Redwine - thanks for the info on my 50% theory. On the death spiral - thats weird because I do open my save files and anything over 50% causes me to spiral when I dive.... Perhaps I have changed something else that I need to change back.

Your dead right on bulkheads - I found it last eve and fiddled with it - did very little - less bulkhead damage as a percentile - but still took the same amount of time to fix.

I will be tweaking a bit on a number of things. Will update as I can - but I think one issue is I noted my last install I went to 1.1 instead of 1.2 and that likely screwed up my testing results. GRRRR :damn:

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

[kakemann]

I will be tweaking a bit on a number of things. Will update as I can - but I think one issue is I noted my last install I went to 1.1 instead of 1.2 and that likely screwed up my testing results. GRRRR :damn:


Thanks a lot for tweaking and testing, guys! :up:

[Snuffy]

... I assume you are ussing the recomended setting into the discussions into this forum about the crush depths, 1.5 of the test depth...thats correct ?

Then your non damaged sub crush depth is 114 meters.

I adjusted the red needle at 100m for my Salmon Class, 14m before the crush depth i am ussing...

May be.... only may be....

The original crush depth.... 76 meters is still working ? ...

Redwine,
I have not modified any values from the stock files with regard to my boat performances. With the exception of the "green button" mod I don't think I have anything else added so it's all stock here.

The red crush needle was all the way to the lower right of the gauge when I set my depth for 100m. Even so, if you're sayng 114 was crush then I was still 14m above that so I never should have had a problem. Theoretically.

[Redwine]

... I assume you are ussing the recomended setting into the discussions into this forum about the crush depths, 1.5 of the test depth...thats correct ?

Then your non damaged sub crush depth is 114 meters.

I adjusted the red needle at 100m for my Salmon Class, 14m before the crush depth i am ussing...

May be.... only may be....

The original crush depth.... 76 meters is still working ? ...
Redwine,
I have not modified any values from the stock files with regard to my boat performances. With the exception of the "green button" mod I don't think I have anything else added so it's all stock here.

The red crush needle was all the way to the lower right of the gauge when I set my depth for 100m. Even so, if you're sayng 114 was crush then I was still 14m above that so I never should have had a problem. Theoretically.

Nop...nop... 114m is a modified value many of us are using, due to some research int he forum.

Stock value for salmon was, if i dont remember bad, 250ft or 76 meters.

But many commnts in the forum tal about the USA Navy uses 1.5 security coheficient... so many of us rise up the crush depth to 114m.

Here into SH IV as before into SH III, the dev team confused the test depth with the crush depth.

If you rwally are using stock value... if you go to 100m, it is correct you crush...

[Redwine]

Redwine - thanks for the info on my 50% theory. On the death spiral - thats weird because I do open my save files and anything over 50% causes me to spiral when I dive.... Perhaps I have changed something else that I need to change back.

Your dead right on bulkheads - I found it last eve and fiddled with it - did very little - less bulkhead damage as a percentile - but still took the same amount of time to fix.

I will be tweaking a bit on a number of things. Will update as I can - but I think one issue is I noted my last install I went to 1.1 instead of 1.2 and that likely screwed up my testing results. GRRRR :damn:

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

OK waiting your test !! :up:

[Snuffy]

Nop...nop... 114m is a modified value many of us are using, due to some research int he forum.

Well crap!

Stock value for salmon was, if i dont remember bad, 250ft or 76 meters.

But many commnts in the forum tal about the USA Navy uses 1.5 security coheficient... so many of us rise up the crush depth to 114m.

Here into SH IV as before into SH III, the dev team confused the test depth with the crush depth.

If you rwally are using stock value... if you go to 100m, it is correct you crush...

Well apparently so. Next question, why was I able to stay at 100 for 20 minutes live time with no problems?
And where do I find the modified values for the boats?

[Redwine]

Nop...nop... 114m is a modified value many of us are using, due to some research int he forum.
Well crap!

Stock value for salmon was, if i dont remember bad, 250ft or 76 meters.

But many commnts in the forum tal about the USA Navy uses 1.5 security coheficient... so many of us rise up the crush depth to 114m.

Here into SH IV as before into SH III, the dev team confused the test depth with the crush depth.

If you rwally are using stock value... if you go to 100m, it is correct you crush...
Well apparently so. Next question, why was I able to stay at 100 for 20 minutes live time with no problems?
And where do I find the modified values for the boats?
May be your crash speed is too low... wich value are you using ?

[Snuffy]

... May be your crash speed is too low... wich value are you using ?

It's all stock.

[ccruner13]

One thing I have seen that I dont understand is the "no damage but my engines dont work" issue. Anyone got a clue as to whats causing this? I havent been ably to replicate it - but my thoughts are that any piece of equipment over 50% damage - is inop? If so - the code is doing some really horrible rounding off of damage - but this would also explain why "50%" is the death dive mark for hull damage as well.......

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo
Yes i had that issue, more than one time.

No visible damage of any kind, all items repaired, and no propulsion, no engine damaged, no proppellers damage.... nothing. And no diesel propulsion, no battery recharge.

I was looking to set diferential hitpoints to the engines, so when a depth charge explodes and damage them, not equal damage must be taken by the engines, and you can preseve almost some of them working.

Into the .cfg the engines has hitpoints for port and straboard, but seems to NOT works, the hitpoint seems to be now into the .upc files, and there... there is only one entry for all diesel or electric engines. :dead:

this happend to me twice actually...the first time one of my diesals didnt take any damage at all so i easily should have been able to make power even while the other was damaged. so i repaired all up and still couldnt go so i checked the battle stations thing but that wasnt it and then i hit starboard evasive for some reason and i went down to 110 feet and was moving but my batteries were low so i surface and still nothing and no charging so i try periscope depth to burn out the rest of my batts and i sink like a stone. i have no explanation for that

[gg5056]

This Happen To Me. I Think I Had Damage That I Forgot About.
Was At 90 Ft. Tried To Go To 120ft. Died.

[Redwine]

... May be your crash speed is too low... wich value are you using ?
It's all stock.

I have not idea then... very strange ! :huh:

[U-Bones]

I actually has a patrol last night where DC worked great. I got too close to TF air cover and caught a couple bombs as I was diving. I was in 190' water in the Java sea, just after daybreak. I am using .02 crash speed, .000001 floodingspeed. (no change here - I always use these)

Battlestations & I saved as soon as I realized I had taken damage. Data below.

I immediately lost most of my propulsion, flank gave me about 1kt, and that was not enough to keep the heavy tail from settling to the bottom. So we shut her down, all stop. If we were not in shallows it would have been over. It was shallow enough for the hull to survive extended hours also.

Flooding was heavy looked like we were going to lose. For a while the angle was so steep, the nose was out of the water. I noticed that the swarming planes kept bombing the area nerby where I went down originally. They seemed to not notice the nose of the sub sticking out...

Finally one, then both bulkheads were repaired and we started pumping dry. Gradually, we regained bouyancy, and the nose submerged and the tail lifted off the bottom.

When we got decent trim, and a couple electrics working, we started making about .5 kts towards shallower water.

By nightfall, everything was repaired, and we surfaces and skeddaled back to port.

Four observations.
1. Water is way too heavy in the game. I have my subs configured for the slowest possible flooding in the game, but there is no way to keep a flooding boat from hitting bottom fast without strong and noisy propulsion. Deep water removes any chance for the gameplay above. There is a lot of deep water in the Pacific.

2. Bulkheads take the same percentage of damge as the compartment, even with only half the HP. They seem to be closely linked.

3. Engines damage always damages port and stb pairs, never both on one side. (well, as far as I have seen - I never recall getting one side running)

4. When DC works, its big fun.

Snapshot of save file right after taking damage. Final hull damage was .463003

Porpoise
Damage = 0.459085 ;;this is the only place hull damage is exposed
StartUserPlayerUnitMissionDateTime = 1942-06-10 16:00:00

After Torpedo Room
Hitpoints = 200.000000
Damage = 0.173015
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 34.602928
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:06:05
FloodingLevel = 0.466497
FloodingTime = 0000-00-00 00:18:30
FloodingSpeed = 0.000001
After Torpedo Room Bulkhead
Bulkhead
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.173015
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 17.301464
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:03:01
Decoy Launcher
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.352575
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 35.257545
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 01:54:20

Engine Rooms
Hitpoints = 200.000000
Damage = 0.476254
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 95.250740
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:24:07
FloodingLevel = 0.261502
FloodingTime = 0000-00-00 00:22:13
FloodingSpeed = 0.000001
Engine Rooms Bulkhead
Bulkhead
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.476254
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 47.625370
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:27:39
No 1 Main Engine
Diesel Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.685687
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 68.568680
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 07:43:14
No 2 Main Engine
Diesel Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.639093
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 63.909306
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 08:13:37
No 3 Main Engine
Diesel Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 6.909811
RemainingRepairTime = 0000--88--70 23:57:33
No 4 Main Engine
Diesel Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 6.239801
RemainingRepairTime = 0000--88--70 23:58:01
No 1 Electric Engine
Electric Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.747539
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 74.753860
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 07:22:42
No 2 Electric Engine
Electric Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.690765
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 69.076508
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 05:59:12
No 3 Electric Engine
Electric Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.057515
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 7.778815
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:20:31
No 4 Electric Engine
Electric Engine
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.027737
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 5.611081
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:07:04
Aft Battery
Batteries (Stern)
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.066386
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 6.638633
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:09:57

Aft Gun Deck
Hitpoints = 200.000000
Damage = 0.114795
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 22.958920
RemainingRepairTime = 0000-00-00 00:01:06
FloodingSpeed = 0.000001
Aft Deck Gun Mount
3"/50 Caliber Cannon
Hitpoints = 100.000000
Damage = 0.001436
DamageHitpointsConsumed = 0.143553

[Dustyboats]

I may have this all "up the toot"....However, I have been playing with one convoy all morning in Career Mode. Sunk all 7 merch. only leaving the odd 3 DD's each time. Dived deep, 200ft got clear (as I thought!) upted the TC to 16 and immediately had massive damage, spiralling out to beyond crush depth and .... whamo....deaded!
I'd saved the initial approach, so went at it again. Repeated this several times using different TC settings to escape. If I went above TC 8 I was seriously damaged and deaded. Below this figure (TC8) however I took damage but it was under control, not as severe.
It struck me that there may be a built in " Don't cheat by getting away using TC" item in the game????? It still does not solve my occasional "We are taking damage sir" in harbour though!
Is it possible that DC is perhaps coded up in this way...."To deter the use of TC for escape" ???

[Snuffy]

Interesting thought Dusty ...

I don't recall uppin the TC on my "escape" though I may have. It's been a couple days now and I've forgotten the finality other than sinkin.

[U-Bones]

I may have this all "up the toot"....However, I have been playing with one convoy all morning in Career Mode. Sunk all 7 merch. only leaving the odd 3 DD's each time. Dived deep, 200ft got clear (as I thought!) upted the TC to 16 and immediately had massive damage, spiralling out to beyond crush depth and .... whamo....deaded!
I'd saved the initial approach, so went at it again. Repeated this several times using different TC settings to escape. If I went above TC 8 I was seriously damaged and deaded. Below this figure (TC8) however I took damage but it was under control, not as severe.
It struck me that there may be a built in " Don't cheat by getting away using TC" item in the game????? It still does not solve my occasional "We are taking damage sir" in harbour though!
Is it possible that DC is perhaps coded up in this way...."To deter the use of TC for escape" ???

I have always thought that TC was "noisy" or something. Not long ago, when escorts were breaking away (high speed - 180 away from me) - I went into TC 64 or so too early, and the next thing I knew, the DD had peeled back at me. I had the same paranoia (and experiences) in SH3.

[ccruner13]

I may have this all "up the toot"....However, I have been playing with one convoy all morning in Career Mode. Sunk all 7 merch. only leaving the odd 3 DD's each time. Dived deep, 200ft got clear (as I thought!) upted the TC to 16 and immediately had massive damage, spiralling out to beyond crush depth and .... whamo....deaded!
I'd saved the initial approach, so went at it again. Repeated this several times using different TC settings to escape. If I went above TC 8 I was seriously damaged and deaded. Below this figure (TC8) however I took damage but it was under control, not as severe.
It struck me that there may be a built in " Don't cheat by getting away using TC" item in the game????? It still does not solve my occasional "We are taking damage sir" in harbour though!
Is it possible that DC is perhaps coded up in this way...."To deter the use of TC for escape" ???

I have always thought that TC was "noisy" or something. Not long ago, when escorts were breaking away (high speed - 180 away from me) - I went into TC 64 or so too early, and the next thing I knew, the DD had peeled back at me. I had the same paranoia (and experiences) in SH3.

i have had the same experience several times as well...i never attributed it to tc just to something else random...but i think its happend too many times for it to not somehow be related?

[Dustyboats]

I may have this all "up the toot"....However, I have been playing with one convoy all morning in Career Mode. Sunk all 7 merch. only leaving the odd 3 DD's each time. Dived deep, 200ft got clear (as I thought!) upted the TC to 16 and immediately had massive damage, spiralling out to beyond crush depth and .... whamo....deaded!
I'd saved the initial approach, so went at it again. Repeated this several times using different TC settings to escape. If I went above TC 8 I was seriously damaged and deaded. Below this figure (TC8) however I took damage but it was under control, not as severe.
It struck me that there may be a built in " Don't cheat by getting away using TC" item in the game????? It still does not solve my occasional "We are taking damage sir" in harbour though!
Is it possible that DC is perhaps coded up in this way...."To deter the use of TC for escape" ???

Thanks for the interest chaps. Perhaps someone else might like to give this a whirl (if you have time), just to "Prove a Point????"