Will NCO Corps be decimated by Iraq?

[Heibges]

Watching the morning news, I see that sadly another young sergeant from California was killed in Iraq.

Sadder still, in Vietnam the NCO Corps of the United States Army was decimated. Many young NCO's were killed, and many more ended up addicted to drugs and living on the streets of America's cities. Plus, due to the unpopularity of the military following Vietnam, there were many "Go to War or Go to Jail" enlistments, and this further hurt the Army.

The Army made a major push to rebuild the NCO Corps, but it took them nearly 15 years culminating in 1989 with The Year of the NCO.

President Reagan provided many new incentives to get young highly qualified and hightly motivated young soldiers. As Schwarzkoff said, the Army that invaded Kuwait in 1991 was the smartest, best trained, most motivated, in American History.

As many of you know, the NCO Corps is considered the "Backbone of the Army".

How will the Iraq and Afghanistan situations effect the NCO Corps in the next 10 to 15 years?

[Ishmael]

It's already happening. There are reports of homeless Iraqi vets joining their comrades from Vietnam under the overpasses of America. The total failure of the admin & Pentagon to prepare for the aftermath of this war is unconscionable. Cuts in VA funding, lack of in-service treatment for PTSD, stop-loss programs & continued redeployments into a deteriorating hellhole are definitely having an impact.

[dean_acheson]

What reports? Any cites, besides those from the Socialist international or people like Jessie MacBeth?

Cuts in VA funding is a talking point from Pelosi and Company, when the Bush Administation did not increase the funding to the levels that the Democrats called for, the left called them cuts. Then the next talking point is that the Democrats are the ones that really support the troops and the Republicans do not. Then the next talking point is that the only way to support the troops is to cut funding for the war and bring the troops home. The the next point involves something about anybody not agreeing is a chickenhawk.

The NCO core has not, and will not be 'decimated' in Iraq like you claim that it was in Vietnam. You don't think there is a bit of difference between 55,000 dead and 3,000? I find that the morale of troops isn't quite as bad when soldiers get off aircraft and find their fellow citizens see them as heros protecting our liberties from Islamic fascism, and not like in Vietnam, when a counter-culture movement denouced all forms of modern western liberalism/capitalism and insisted that our efforts to stop the spread of communist totalitarism in SE Asia was an exhibit of American imperialism.

All the terrorists in the world can't do the harm to the American Army that Harry Reid has done with his political pandering and Nancy Pelosi by sitting on the lap of one of the individuals directly responsable for killing many of our boys.

The other day, I was with a recruiter friend of mine here, and a woman snidely said to him that she 'betted he wished that this horrible war was over and the soldiers could come home,' and he rightly said, 'yes ma'am, but not till the job's done.'

[Heibges]

It's already happening. There are reports of homeless Iraqi vets joining their comrades from Vietnam under the overpasses of America. The total failure of the admin & Pentagon to prepare for the aftermath of this war is unconscionable. Cuts in VA funding, lack of in-service treatment for PTSD, stop-loss programs & continued redeployments into a deteriorating hellhole are definitely having an impact.

America has never really treated the Veterans the way they deserved. MacArthur has those Vet's massacred when they marched on Washington DC after WWI. This is not an issue you can blame on 1 party or the other, but on the American people who have tolerated it for amost 100 years.

[tycho102]

NCO's are bailing out of the military, if that's what you mean by "decimated".

There is a middle-class gap forming right now. The Navy and Marines will offset this by just lowering the promotion standard. Airforce will hold one of the rank raffles. Don't know how it works for Army. There's going to be a steep learning curve for all the new promotions.

Coast Guard is going to have a rough time if we ever actually secure the Rio Grande. Those guys will start getting some serious trigger-time.

[Heibges]

The other day, I was with a recruiter friend of mine here, and a woman snidely said to him that she 'betted he wished that this horrible war was over and the soldiers could come home,' and he rightly said, 'yes ma'am, but not till the job's done.'

You mean the job of the soldiers in Iraq, or his job as a recruiter. Did he get his bonus for making Quota this quarter?

[Heibges]

NCO's are bailing out of the military, if that's what you mean by "decimated".

There is a middle-class gap forming right now. The Navy and Marines will offset this by just lowering the promotion standard. Airforce will hold one of the rank raffles. Don't know how it works for Army. There's going to be a steep learning curve for all the new promotions.

Coast Guard is going to have a rough time if we ever actually secure the Rio Grande. Those guys will start getting some serious trigger-time.

Yep, that's exactly what I mean.

[Heibges]

What reports? Any cites, besides those from the Socialist international or people like Jessie MacBeth?


Just from Officers Basic Course. The class called "Why you should shut the heck up Lt, and listen to your Platoon Sergean like it's the Word of God."

[bradclark1]

All the terrorists in the world can't do the harm to the American Army that Harry Reid has done with his political pandering and Nancy Pelosi by sitting on the lap of one of the individuals directly responsable for killing many of our boys.

Isn't it amazing what one party can do in such a short time.:roll:

[Ishmael]

What reports? Any cites, besides those from the Socialist international or people like Jessie MacBeth?

OK. How about this article from last April in the San Antonio Tx Times:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA040806.17A.retention_bump.12f4345e.html


or this CNN report and interview with the IAVA:
http://www.iava.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2410&Itemid=116

[Heibges]

D'oh!

We're ruining an Army that took us 30 years to build," Republican maverick Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., told a group of reporters at a recent conference.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I'm very concerned about what Iraq is doing to our military, both personnel and funding. Hopefully we'll still have a military that is capable and professional as our present military is when we need to fight a real war.

PD

[Skybird]

Just to remember the many bruises I took when projecting years ago that as a consequence of a long Iraq campaign the army would find it increasingly difficult to find recruits, that experienced troops and officers would bail out and turn their back on a prolongued stay in the army, and that veterans and psychologically hurt soldiers would be the first to feel not being properly supported, like the army had not been properly prepared before the war... General laughter and mocking was the general tone in the forum back then. Seems that has changed.

But if there will be another war in 20 years or so - I fear the lectures of today again will be ignored, and will be forgotten in favour of waving flags and singing the anthem.

I find it disgusting to headlessly ruin one's own army like this.

Plus this: a year ago there was an essay published, calculating the costs for the technical maintenance and replacement of Iraq-used equipement. They said there is so much wear and tear that the costs for this will be felt for up to 15 years to come, and at the costs of financing other items on the military's list.

[U-533]

What reports? Any cites, besides those from the Socialist international or people like Jessie MacBeth?

Cuts in VA funding is a talking point from Pelosi and Company, when the Bush Administation did not increase the funding to the levels that the Democrats called for, the left called them cuts. Then the next talking point is that the Democrats are the ones that really support the troops and the Republicans do not. Then the next talking point is that the only way to support the troops is to cut funding for the war and bring the troops home. The the next point involves something about anybody not agreeing is a chickenhawk.

The NCO core has not, and will not be 'decimated' in Iraq like you claim that it was in Vietnam. You don't think there is a bit of difference between 55,000 dead and 3,000? I find that the morale of troops isn't quite as bad when soldiers get off aircraft and find their fellow citizens see them as heros protecting our liberties from Islamic fascism, and not like in Vietnam, when a counter-culture movement denouced all forms of modern western liberalism/capitalism and insisted that our efforts to stop the spread of communist totalitarism in SE Asia was an exhibit of American imperialism.

All the terrorists in the world can't do the harm to the American Army that Harry Reid has done with his political pandering and Nancy Pelosi by sitting on the lap of one of the individuals directly responsable for killing many of our boys.

The other day, I was with a recruiter friend of mine here, and a woman snidely said to him that she 'betted he wished that this horrible war was over and the soldiers could come home,' and he rightly said, 'yes ma'am, but not till the job's done.'

dean... I like your thought patterns...

But the horse is dead.

These people want America to fall/fail they will say anything to help in the effort.

Day in and day out I hear on all types of Media how the USA is sick of this war on terror and we should give up.

I may hear a story now a then (Very very rarely) about how well things are going in the war on terror. But then it always has some backfeed on how hopeless the war on terror is.

With this kinda backing from the Media draining hope, it is a wonder we have any enlistment at all.

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

I repeat.

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

Just a certain people who want the milk and honey but don't want to pay for it.

dean ... may I call you dean? ... we are coming to a turning point in America and it's for the worst, I say "Men who want to win should take the airwaves back from the defeated and start proclaiming Victory again"

:sunny:

[Etienne]

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

I repeat.

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

1. This is a static message display. You do not need to repeat the same information twice. If it's interesting, people will read it a second time out of their own volution. Otherwise, you're wasting space and bandwidth. Same with quoting an entire post.

2. Most people have admitted that the war in Iraq has little, if anything, to do with the war on terror. Except that if Iraq is left in the state that it is now, it will become a big terrorist incubator. Heck, it already is.

[Sailor Steve]

I would just like to take exception to the use of the word "decimated". Heibges, I'm not blaming you; it's common practice everywhere. "Decimation" is today used as an equivalent for "devastation", or "destruction". Actually, Decimation was an ancient Roman punishment for rebellion in the ranks; the centurion would line up his century and kill every tenth man. So, for anything to be "decimated", it has to be reduced by ten percent.

My rant for the day.

[U-533]

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

I repeat.

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

1. This is a static message display. You do not need to repeat the same information twice. If it's interesting, people will read it a second time out of their own volution. Otherwise, you're wasting space and bandwidth. Same with quoting an entire post.

2. Most people have admitted that the war in Iraq has little, if anything, to do with the war on terror. Except that if Iraq is left in the state that it is now, it will become a big terrorist incubator. Heck, it already is.

I repeat ...

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

----------

some people need to listen.....

The Leftmedia has them hypnotized.

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[Sailor Steve]

I repeat ...

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

----------

some people need to listen.....

The Leftmedia has them hypnotized.

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny:
This, along with most of your previous post, sounds exactly like the warmongering of Alexander Hamilton in 1796. Anyone who disagreed with his policy (as presented to President John Adams) was a traitor and against the Constitution. When Virginia passed a resolution protesting the Alien and Sedition Acts, Hamilton lamented that he couldn't put an army together to teach that recalcitrant state a lesson.

[bradclark1]

I repeat ...

In reality all this negative talk about the war on terror is total cowardice...

----------

some people need to listen.....

The Leftmedia has them hypnotized.

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Tchocky]

t's not iraq, no problems there. We must shoot the messenger