How do they make console games error free?

[pocatellodave]

It occured to me that console games never have bugs,but pc games always have flaws.Is that a true statement?I don't play console games,strictly pc games.I never hear my son complaining about bugs,or wanting to know when the next patch is coming.Could someone shed some light on this?
Pocatellodave

[Iron Budokan]

Yes, console games have bugs, too. But, depending on the genre, they tend to be simpler games than PC games, therefore the code and software is often more manageable.

[ReallyDedPoet]

They don't, lots of console games have bugs, frame rate issues, etc. Tom Clancy: Rainbow Six was one I can think of, could not get past a level, it was a bug.

RDP

[Safe-Keeper]

Well, naturally, console games can't yet be patched, so they thus have to be bug-free. Whether or not that makes a difference, though, I don't know.

[Chock]

With no way to patch a console game, naturally it is important to test them thoroughly before release, but this has the advantage of only being required on one set of hardware, the parameters and performance of which is a constant and known criteria. This is fundamental to the ability to write code that you know will work with the hardware, not something one can do with a PC, where so many different combinations of hardware are available, that it equates to trying to make a meal that everyone in the world will like.

Additionally, when a company writes a game for a console, there are strict guidelines which it has to adhere to in order to be able to put the console's logos on its packaging etc, generally speaking these are usually followed, which is why you sometimes see slightly different versions of PC games on the console variant. A notable example of this was the FPS, Far Cry. It's also the reason why some PC games receive 'patches' which appear to 'dumb them down', invariably this is to facilitate plans for a port over to a console version. SWG is an example of this.

I suspect that with consoles more capable these days and now able to connect online (thus making them capable of implementing patches), the 'bug free console game' might not be as common as it had once been.

[John Channing]

See here...

http://forums.avault.com/showthread.php?t=6128

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8792031102/m/1162048392

http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2007/04/console_game_pa_1.php

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox/file/556553/24705

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/11/1817224&tid=211

JCC

[SteamWake]

Well, naturally, console games can't yet be patched, so they thus have to be bug-free. Whether or not that makes a difference, though, I don't know.


Ummm not true most platforms now have connectivity and are actively patched.

But on the overall topic the developers have a "target" platform to design to and test on.

For a platform they know preciesly which CPU, GPU, how much ram, what kind of and speed of fixed disk, which sound processor, what resolution etc etc

As soon as you say PC all the above become vairables to a incredable degree let alone the loose nuts behind the keyboards.

[Snuffy]

With the console games, you're locked into a particular set of hardware as well. Much easier to program when you know what the platform is.

With PC games, the platforms are so diverse, and the programers can not always account for every configuration of PC.

[Vecna]

The same driver and hardware are in every console. If you look at patch notes they sometimes fix X graphic cards, X resolution glitches and not to mention all the different software that all has to be working together. So yes there is alot more complicated to make X game compatible with all the configrations avaiable on the personal computer market. Alot of people buy a complete pc from one place but the setup is different from another store, next there is people like me who likes to pick what you want. Even though games have bugs even driver companys can screw up aswell, like the launch of vista and nvidia. Nvidia really screwed up and I know this personally when buying "Vanguard" and using my 8800gts card, bad framerate, random crashes etc. all because nvidia didn't fixed updated drivers. So not everything is about the game code only.

To make a simple answer, yes pc games have bugs but some console games do too but the margin for error is not that big on the console.

[tonyeh]

How do they make console games error free?
They're tested.;)

[GnarPow]

Think how many PC GFX cards there are

Think how many variations of RAM you can have

Think of how many different Operating systems and at what level

Think of all of the different CPU/Mobo Combos

Think of all the OTHER software on ANY 1 persons computer that can conflict

Now think about how every PS3 is EXACTLY the same

Should answer your question

[DragonRR1]

Only a few console games a TOTALLY error free, it's not uncommon to see minor bugs/glitches.

As already said there is only one platform so there is more time for bug testing game errors rather than testing for different speciications.

Most, if not all, console game are submitted to Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo etc.. for QA as well as internal QA before they are released. In other words, they are double tested.

Even though next generation consoles games can and do receive online patches the games normally have no major bugs since the publishers cannot guarantee that the gamers will be able to get online.

[Sailor Steve]

I had a Grand Prix Formula 1 game for the Playstation. Any time I entered the pits I got stuck and couldn't leave. It left the game truly unplayable.

Don't tell me console games never have bugs.

[U-Bones]

As soon as you say PC all the above become vairables to a incredable degree let alone the loose nuts behind the keyboards.
:rotfl:

[VonBlade]

Think how many PC GFX cards there are
Think how many variations of RAM you can have
Think of how many different Operating systems and at what level
Think of all of the different CPU/Mobo Combos
Think of all the OTHER software on ANY 1 persons computer that can conflict
Now think about how every PS3 is EXACTLY the same
Should answer your question

Except that games are standalone pieces of software and DirectX is an API designed to allow for a stable platform to code on. The amount of RAM, Graphics card, CPU power etc is purely performance related and will not have a bearing on any hard-coded show-stopping bugs.

In these modern times everyone has an ATI or NVIDIA card, running on a AMD or INTEL processor. Wow. Four variations.

The sad fact is that PC game coders know that games can be patched and that PC gamers are generally a more forgiving bunch, willing to mod out flaws. So they code to fit.

To make out that we're back in the complex days of Cyrix processors and Rendition Verite graphics cards, pre Direct-X, is laughable. PCs are almost standardised in terms of OS and API and any huge problems are the reserve of crappy coding and rushed releases.
VB

[Scott Bruno]

Think how many PC GFX cards there are
Think how many variations of RAM you can have
Think of how many different Operating systems and at what level
Think of all of the different CPU/Mobo Combos
Think of all the OTHER software on ANY 1 persons computer that can conflict
Now think about how every PS3 is EXACTLY the same
Should answer your question

Except that games are standalone pieces of software and DirectX is an API designed to allow for a stable platform to code on. The amount of RAM, Graphics card, CPU power etc is purely performance related and will not have a bearing on any hard-coded show-stopping bugs.

In these modern times everyone has an ATI or NVIDIA card, running on a AMD or INTEL processor. Wow. Four variations.

The sad fact is that PC game coders know that games can be patched and that PC gamers are generally a more forgiving bunch, willing to mod out flaws. So they code to fit.

To make out that we're back in the complex days of Cyrix processors and Rendition Verite graphics cards, pre Direct-X, is laughable. PCs are almost standardised in terms of OS and API and any huge problems are the reserve of crappy coding and rushed releases.
VB

You are way, way off there. Four iterations? God no. Do you have any idea how much trouble you can get into just from sound hardware alone? How much difference there is between the current gen video cards and the average one that's a couple tech generations old? You can't just say it's ATI or Nvidia. You also can't say it's "just DirectX". First, not everyone uses it. Second, there's no guarantee that you'll get the same results from one rig to another. You can't even guarantee the results from one driver version to the next.

I'll grant you that the state of things today is not quite the D20 roll that it once was, but it certainly isn't as rosy as you think, either.

Second, as others have pointed out, with a console title you have to get approved at multiple stages. And it's not just another QA pass. You might be surprised to learn this, but each of Sony's major entities are entitled to make suggestions on your design, based on what they feel the title will need in order to be successful in their market. Sony Japan may evaluate your preproduction documents and say that the multiplayer is lacking something, independently of what Sony America or Europe thinks. Further, there's a strict set of technical requirements and standards (the dreaded TRC or TCR, depending on whether you're Microsoft or Sony) you have to adhere to which covers a lot more than just "no crash bugs".

Part of the problem with the PC is that no one owns the platform. No one evaluates or approves the title apart from a QA signoff and the end user. Microsoft and Sony would never allow you to release a game that crashes when you press the 'A' or 'Square' button. But the PC has no such policing.

Microsoft is trying to position themselves to serve as that entity as part of "Games for Windows". I've heard a lot of negative reactions to that whole endeavor. But me? I say decades of PC gaming later, it's about damn time someone stepped in and offered console-like quality standards for PC games. Of course it's completely voluntary and it has nothing to do with the PC as a machine, meaning that Tiny Studio X can just bypass it altogether. But it's something, anyway.

[VonBlade]

You are way, way off there. Four iterations? God no. Do you have any idea how much trouble you can get into just from sound hardware alone? How much difference there is between the current gen video cards and the average one that's a couple tech generations old? You can't just say it's ATI or Nvidia. You also can't say it's "just DirectX". First, not everyone uses it. Second, there's no guarantee that you'll get the same results from one rig to another. You can't even guarantee the results from one driver version to the next.


Except of course that basic things like our submarine magically sinking, or Destroyers that can see you from a thousand miles away, or people manning the deck-gun dying even though we are submerged, or the radar problems, or many of the other fundamental flaws in the game are NOT anything to do with peoples rigs. They are problems within the game itself.

So let's not become blind fanboys and attempt to soothe the fevered brow of the poor game-coders who have to cope with a million possible hardware iterations, and just accept that whilst some issues are, potentially, hardware related, swathes of them are bugs related to the game being badly coded and rushed.

Thank you.
VB

[Scott Bruno]

You are way, way off there. Four iterations? God no. Do you have any idea how much trouble you can get into just from sound hardware alone? How much difference there is between the current gen video cards and the average one that's a couple tech generations old? You can't just say it's ATI or Nvidia. You also can't say it's "just DirectX". First, not everyone uses it. Second, there's no guarantee that you'll get the same results from one rig to another. You can't even guarantee the results from one driver version to the next.


Except of course that basic things like our submarine magically sinking, or Destroyers that can see you from a thousand miles away, or people manning the deck-gun dying even though we are submerged, or the radar problems, or many of the other fundamental flaws in the game are NOT anything to do with peoples rigs. They are problems within the game itself.

So let's not become blind fanboys and attempt to soothe the fevered brow of the poor game-coders who have to cope with a million possible hardware iterations, and just accept that whilst some issues are, potentially, hardware related, swathes of them are bugs related to the game being badly coded and rushed.

Thank you.
VB


Except of course that I didn't say Word One about the kind of bugs you just listed. What I corrected you on stands.

[nfitzsimmons]

Think how many PC GFX cards there are
Think how many variations of RAM you can have
Think of how many different Operating systems and at what level
Think of all of the different CPU/Mobo Combos
Think of all the OTHER software on ANY 1 persons computer that can conflict
Now think about how every PS3 is EXACTLY the same
Should answer your question

Except that games are standalone pieces of software and DirectX is an API designed to allow for a stable platform to code on. The amount of RAM, Graphics card, CPU power etc is purely performance related and will not have a bearing on any hard-coded show-stopping bugs.

In these modern times everyone has an ATI or NVIDIA card, running on a AMD or INTEL processor. Wow. Four variations.

The sad fact is that PC game coders know that games can be patched and that PC gamers are generally a more forgiving bunch, willing to mod out flaws. So they code to fit.

To make out that we're back in the complex days of Cyrix processors and Rendition Verite graphics cards, pre Direct-X, is laughable. PCs are almost standardised in terms of OS and API and any huge problems are the reserve of crappy coding and rushed releases.
VB

And how many different versions of just the ATI & nVidia drivers are in use out there at this moment?

[SteamWake]

And how many different versions of just the ATI & nVidia drivers are in use out there at this moment?

Probably at least a dozen.

[CaptainAsh]

someone who is telling "I m coding in direct3D so it s gonna work on every PC with directX installed" had never code in direct3D :lol:. Or at least he didn't test his code on another computer than the one where he did the code.

[Takeda Shingen]

Sure there are bugs in console games. Does anyone remember the 'minus world' in Super Mario Brothers? How about 'For great justice'.?

[MikeJW]

Console games are released buggy now but it's not as common. Two big reasons that console games are not as buggy is the fact that the devs only have to program for that hardware so they dont have to worry that someone with beta driver 1.023 for their Hoozit Soundcard running Win XVistaME has a crash when they turn their periscope 360 degrees really fast. A bigger reason is console games are certified by the console maker: they have to go through testing by Sony, Nintendo or MS. Nintendo is said to have the toughest standards while Sony has the least demanding.

[pocatellodave]

Thanks for all the information.I can say that I understand the console verse the pc as far as bugs go.I have noticed with different companies that some patch software quickly,and some like Mickysoft,it's what you see is what you get.Ubisoft patched the heck out of the first Il2 sim..I'm a flight sim nut too!They seem to be a little different with the SH series.I think that sub sims are only popular amongst us devoted few,and I tend to be lenient with my whining.I'd hate for them to get P.O.'d and leave us in the lurch!Again thanks for the many informative answers.
Pocatellodave

[Grunt]

Consoles use virtually identical hardware and drivers, therefore you have a stable and reliable platform.

How many different sound cards are there? CPUs? Video cards? Motherboards? Its a miracle they can make games that work at all to be honest.

Imagine writing a book that can be read by people from 500 different languages.

[9th_cow]

they dont. they have plenty of bugs, not many console games are released that dont get a patch sooner or later.

theyre also smaller in scale than pc games, and easier to test. fighting in a little console room, as opposed to a Arma/Opflash island means less room for error.

The original Dues ex allowed you to go near enough anywhere, and beat each and every mission in many ways.

the sequal was made to satisfy console players, corridoor shooter. less variety, fewer bugs.

how many console games have you played that could keep you going for weeks ? months, years ? none.


a game thats beaten in 2 - 4 hours, obviously has a lot less in it that can go wrong.

anyway, consoles wouldnt exist without PC's remember Halo ? that was a pc game, then Bungie sold out, dumbed it down, and removed the coolest features.
what was left of the game was perhaps the most succsesfull console game ever.

makes you wonder what the proper game would have been like. bugged probably, but 100 times better than what finally got released.

the bigger your game is the more chance of it going wrong, the more imaginative and creative the more chance of problems.
and creativity and imagination are sorely lacking when you have to shoehorn a game on to a single disk, and very little ram.

besides, there is 1 configuration of each console, there are thousands of configs of Pc's.

oh and console games dont have copy protection that cocks up more than anything else.
they do however sometimes tell you to insert the game disk into an xbox 360, i think mine is having an identity crisis.

[VonBlade]

Seeing as this seems to be a thread for pedants, I thought I'd correct you.

they dont. they have plenty of bugs, not many console games are released that dont get a patch sooner or later.

Incredibly wrong. I've played hundreds of games, three have a patch.


how many console games have you played that could keep you going for weeks ? months, years ? none.


Wrong. Madden. Gran Turismo (all versions). Forza. SSX Tricky. NiGHTS. Mario Kart. Pokemon. The list goes on, but I hope my point is made.


besides, there is 1 configuration of each console, there are thousands of configs of Pc's.


Nope. With and without networks (PS2), hard-drives (360), Linux Chips (XBOX), Big and small HDs (PS3) (if certain people can argue that the clock speed of your GFX card affects bugs, I can argue(albeit with a nod and a wink) that HD size should too).

Just thought I'd inform you. ;):-j
VB

[Sailor Steve]

Umm, I still pull out Tomb Raider And Tomb Raider 2 from time to time...:oops: