What is a "neutral convoy"?

[RoaldLarsen]

What exactly is a "neutral convoy"?

It is March 4, 1941, and I'm in BE33, SW of Ireland. I am about to head home, since I've used up all but one of my torpedoes, and most of my deck gun ammunition and am getting low on fuel, when I get a contact report of a "neutral large convoy" a couple of grid squares away. I have seen such contacts before but ignored them. What's the point in wasting time on neutrals? This time, I decide to go have a look. Maybe I'll see an American escort ship for the first time.

I intercept the convoy and find 17 merchants escorted by a lone Royal Navy corvette, which fires on me when I get under 1km away. I sink the corvette, then start checking flags on ships in the convoy.

Only two neutrals. All the rest are British, Canadian or Greek. One of the neutrals is an American C2 or C3 with a load of British warplanes. It is positioned at the front of the centre column. It has a deck gun, but doesn't shoot at me, so I leave it alone. At the back of the centre column is a British C2 with a deck gun which does shoot at me, so I disable the gun and sink the ship with gunfire.

Now I have 14 targets but only one fish and about 70 rounds of 88mm ammunition. I manage to sink a T2, a small tanker, another C2 and a small merchant. I return to base having completed my first patrol in a VIIC with a tally of 70,000 tons sunk, 15 merchants and a corvette. I got full reknown credit for all the ships sunk from the "neutral" convoy.

It seems "neutral convoy" doesn't mean what I had thought. The escort is not neutral. It shoots at me. Most of the ships are not neutral. The only thing that seems neutral is the ship in the commodore's spot: front row centre. (And it was carrying war supplies!).

I have no idea whether the weak escort was a function of the convoy being "neutral" or just the luck of the draw. (I once encountered a large convoy in 1940 that had no escort at all.)

Does anybody else have any information about "neutral convoys"?

[danlisa]

I can't say for certain but this is my understanding.

A convoy will be designated as Neutral, Enemy or Friendly when the majority of ships in that convoy are Neutral, Enemy or Friendly.

Now, I don't know the dates off by heart but is it possible that when your patrol started that the majority of the ships in the convoy you encountered started as Neutral but as time passed in your patrol they became Enemy?

IIRC SH3 will set the parameters for each vessel/convoy when the patrol is first loaded, I'm not even sure that if you reloaded from a save point in the same patrol that it would be corrected.

I think this might just be a quirk of the SH3 Engine.

[Jimbuna]

SINK EM ALL!! :arrgh!:

[RoaldLarsen]

...
A convoy will be designated as Neutral, Enemy or Friendly when the majority of ships in that convoy are Neutral, Enemy or Friendly.

Now, I don't know the dates off by heart but is it possible that when your patrol started that the majority of the ships in the convoy you encountered started as Neutral but as time passed in your patrol they became Enemy? ...


Nope. that can't be it. A majority of the ships in the convoy were British. Most of the rest were Canadian. The convoy would have had to have left port more than 18 months earlier for the majority to have been neutral at time of embarcation.

[danurve]

SINK EM ALL!! :arrgh!:

NO MERCY for Neutral ships being escorted.
I say make the cfg edit and Blast their jazz to the bloody Deep!

[melnibonian]

If I'm not mistaken the nationality is determined by that of the leading ship. If the first ship in the convoy is Neutral then the whole convoy is designated as neutral. In my opinion follow Jim's advice and SINK THEM ALL :arrgh!:

[Penelope_Grey]

I intercept neutral convoys as they are not ALL neutral.

[STEED]

You know where you stand with your Allies and Enemy's but Neutrals are a lot of scheming b******ds, don't trust them. ;)

[HM.Medico]

Gah, who cares if the convoy is neutral, the ships are your enemy.

SINK 'EM ALL!

[bigboywooly]

Yes the lead ship is what gives the convoy is designation
Enemy
Neutral and friendly

1941 and only 1 escort eh
:hmm:

What mod do you use RoaldLarsen ?

[sergbuto]

Yes, it is only the leading ship which defines the side. If you put an U-boat as a leading ship, the contact reports will show an icon of the German sub for the convoy.

[maillemaker]

Wow, I'm glad to learn about this. I've been ignoring "neutral" convoys. What a waste of tonnage... :)

[Crazy Ian]

Wow, I'm glad to learn about this. I've been ignoring "neutral" convoys. What a waste of tonnage... :)

That makes two of us! Neutral convoy's of the world beware, U-3 is on the prowl...

If only I could get the damn fuel to make it to the atlantic....

[Zero Niner]

Is there any impact on renown if I attack a "neutral" convoy, assuming I sink only belligerents?

[Telgriff]

What exactly is a "neutral convoy"?



Target practice.:arrgh!:

[P_Funk]

There is no such thing as a neutral convoy. It was publicly aware that any darkened ships sailing in convoy were legitimate targets. Plain and simple. How this affects GWX is different. But in reality neutrals couldn't expect fair treatment if they are sailing in an allied convoy.

[Crazy Ian]

There is no such thing as a neutral convoy. It was publicly aware that any darkened ships sailing in convoy were legitimate targets. Plain and simple. How this affects GWX is different. But in reality neutrals couldn't expect fair treatment if they are sailing in an allied convoy.

*Nods sagely while cradling a brandy*

Fair point.. I mean it's the equivelent of standing in the middle of a mob of football hooligans and then wondering why you were also arrested.

Not that I'd know anything about that.... :D

[P_Funk]

*Nods sagely while cradling a brandy*

Fair point.. I mean it's the equivelent of standing in the middle of a mob of football hooligans and then wondering why you were also arrested.

Not that I'd know anything about that.... :D
Why wouldn't you?

Ever hear the song "Riot Van" by The Arctic Monkeys? I've got friends like that. I try and see them only when I need a bit of exitement.:cool:

[Crazy Ian]

Ever hear the song "Riot Van" by The Arctic Monkeys? I've got friends like that. I try and see them only when I need a bit of exitement.:cool:

It's all fun and games till someone gets hurt....

Or they need someone to bail 'em out :D

[P_Funk]

and up rolls the riot van,
and these lads just wind the coppers up,
they ask why they don't catch proper crooks,
they get their address and their names took,
but they couldn't care less

Lord I know those guys. One of the guys I kew in high school is being charged by the crown as we speak. Bloody Grand Theft Auto.:roll:

[Genghis Khan]

I had a strange occasion similar to this also.After intercepting a large convoy,engaging several (don't remember an exact number) one kill was reported as "Neutral Unit Destroyed".Though whole convoy was designated as enemy by BDU.

Therefore,I made I conclusion that those convoys,especially in the years of 1939,1940 are somewhat of "mixed" - neutral/enemy,with ships of various countries going.

But nevertheless,as far as I remember tonnage was counted even for that - neutral unit.

Speaking generally,if convoy is designated as "Enemy" by BDU you must not hesitate and engage all ships in there.:)

[Jimbuna]

1941 and only 1 escort eh
:hmm:

What mod do you use RoaldLarsen ?

:roll:
Now look what you've done.....no more easy peasy targets :lol:

[bigboywooly]

:rotfl:

No I meant if it was GWX it may be that a wolfpack got there first which is why only 1 escort and a neutral ship as lead

Though there may still be the odd convoy in the files with a neutral as lead ship

FYI there ARE some neutral convoys ingame
Irish and French spring to mind - only 3 or 4 ships not large convoys