Stop F In Moaning !!!!!

[SteveTRM]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!

We have had two patches - both have made the sim better - give the Devs a chance to sort the problems out - its down to UBI soft for releasing it.

i love it - bugs and all

[CCIP]

i love it - bugs and all

Hey! Stop stealing my tag line! :know:

[shad43]

i love it - bugs and all
Hey! Stop stealing my tag line! :know:

Crap I was gonna use that :rock:

[mookiemookie]

Hear hear! :rock:

[Dowly]

*moan*:roll:

[Monica Lewinsky]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!I am just sick and fed up of you moaning about it and I am tired of your moaning. Grunt instead! :D

[Iron Budokan]

*Grunt*

[Grunt]

You rang?

I can only assume if I wrote a flowery review of SH4, just gushing on about how awesome fantastic and flawless the game is (it isnt, btw) not a peep would be raised by the admins or apologists.

But, should anyone express frustration or point out the (many, MANY) flaws in the game, the whole browbeating and backpeddling kicks in. Should just add, in big red letters, at the top of the forum...

YOU CAN HAVE ANY OPINION YOU WANT, SO LONG AS ITS THE MODERATORS!

Would make their job so much easier, eh? And after that, thats what we shelled out our hard earned cash for. :up:

[shad43]

Im not sure thats a fair assesment...I think are moderators are a great bunch :up:

[Herr Karl]

It was fun hackin out the flaws in SH3. So it will be again. To me it encourages us to join communities like subsim. If I could just jump into a game and play it without any flaws? That would be great, but highly unlikely.

Albeit, Ubi developers might be a little dependent on this forum to iron out the bugs, I don't know--I'm more inclined to think they're just flat out busy. There is a whole lotta code comprised in this game.

Besides, if Ubi developers are using our input (and I know they do), it succeeds in giving me an even greater sense of community.

Got bugs? Bring em on!!!

Thank you Ubi Devs and Thank you Subsim!!!

[scubaDon]

:lost: :lost: :lost:

[oritpro]

No complaints here, I am really enjoying v1.2. There are still a few issues to work out but the game is a lot better now than it was at release time.

[Ducimus]

Is it bad when you really don't have an opinion on SH4 to express at all? I feel no terrific joy, nor pain, no sorrow, nor happiness. There are both things that i like, and dislike. So It is what it is, and for me there isn't any going back to Sh3. Played that game waaay to long, so there really isnt anywhere to go except forward with SH4. So, i dont really b*tch about the game, i just set about making it more palatable.

[Krupp]

*mooooooooan*

[sunvalleyslim]

[quote=Ducimus] with SH4. So, i dont really b*tch about the game, i just set about making it more palatable.[/quote

and it will be as time goes on.........with patches and mods. That's what keeps this forum going. if it was a perfect game we wouldn't be here trying to find ways to make it better. Look at SH3 before GWX.............

[joea]

But, should anyone express frustration or point out the (many, MANY) flaws in the game, the whole browbeating and backpeddling kicks in. Should just add, in big red letters, at the top of the forum...



It's all in how you say it...

[John Channing]

You rang?

I can only assume if I wrote a flowery review of SH4, just gushing on about how awesome fantastic and flawless the game is (it isnt, btw) not a peep would be raised by the admins or apologists.

But, should anyone express frustration or point out the (many, MANY) flaws in the game, the whole browbeating and backpeddling kicks in. Should just add, in big red letters, at the top of the forum...

YOU CAN HAVE ANY OPINION YOU WANT, SO LONG AS ITS THE MODERATORS!

Would make their job so much easier, eh? And after that, thats what we shelled out our hard earned cash for. :up:

And yet, here you still are, freely voicing your opinion.

I am looking around and I don't see anyone trying to stop you. Am I missing something?

Have you possibly confused being asked to voice your opinions in a mature fashion with censorship?

You have said that the reason you are posting here is to tell people not to buy Silent Hunter 4:WOTP, and yet I don't see anyone stopping you. Given that the mandate of this site to to create a place where fans of the genre can help each other out, that would seem counterproductive, but here you are, freely voicing your opinions.

Lastly... exactly how much of your "hard earned cash" have you shelled out to Subsim.com? Last time I checked Neal was still footing the bills to pay for this site. Has something changed?

JCC

[AVGWarhawk]

Im not sure thats a fair assesment...I think are moderators are a great bunch :up:


You just made my Christmas list:up:.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Im not sure thats a fair assesment...I think are moderators are a great bunch :up:

Agreed on this:up:, I hear they get big-bucks for it to:o

RDP

[SteamWake]

Ill bitch and moan all I want please thanks.

Have a nice day. :lol:

[wireman]

Second!

[shawnyp420]

at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is -
I disagree. I think SHIII GWX is the greatest subsim.
Maybe if UBI completed SHIV instead of releasing it 3/4 finished I could agree with you.

[Sailor Steve]

Have you possibly confused being asked to voice your opinions in a mature fashion with censorship?
How dare you speak the truth?? A POX on you and your dirty facts!:rock:

I see many people here on a great many threads talking about all the things that are wrong with the initial release of SH4, and the patches. The last time I looked there was still an officially sanctioned 'SH4 Bugs' thread, and even Neal has been known to back up some of the complaints, and has actually voiced one or two of his own. The only time people get censored or yelled at is when the main function of the post is to shout "SH4 SUX!" Other than that critiques have been mostly welcome.

Remember a few weeks before it was released, and there was a thread joking about all this in advance? I do.

[Sailor Steve]

at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is -
I disagree. I think SHIII GWX is the greatest subsim.
Maybe if UBI completed SHIV instead of releasing it 3/4 finished I could agree with you.
But SH3 was released 3/4 finished (or was it only 1/2) and got the exact same treatment; and now you love it. Give the new kid some time, and he'll be just as good.

[SteamWake]

Dont forget to add that probably 90% of the complaints are either.

A cracked version or Mod conflicts.

[ReallyDedPoet]

at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is -
I disagree. I think SHIII GWX is the greatest subsim.
Maybe if UBI completed SHIV instead of releasing it 3/4 finished I could agree with you.

Your comparing SH4 to SH3 GWX, like comparing apples and oranges. Compare it to stock SH3. SH3 has been out for over two years and many mods later:yep:

RDP

[Beery]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!

We have had two patches - both have made the sim better - give the Devs a chance to sort the problems out - its down to UBI soft for releasing it.

i love it - bugs and all

I like it too, but that doesn't mean we should stop demanding more. If no one was 'moaning' the devs might not see a need to fix the bugs.

Criticism is essential in order to make things better. If you don't want the bugs fixed, by all means don't moan. But don't stifle the moaning and whining of those of us who do want those bugs fixed. There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em. :up:

[Iron Budokan]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If no one said anything at all, just gave SH4 love and kisses without any constructive criticism whatsoever, then we wouldn't have patch 1.2. You can bet your boots on that.

I'm just waiting for the last major issues to get fixed in 1.3 (fingers crossed) and then I'll get back to playing this sim. I'm really looking forward to it, too. :up:

[John Channing]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!

We have had two patches - both have made the sim better - give the Devs a chance to sort the problems out - its down to UBI soft for releasing it.

i love it - bugs and all

I like it too, but that doesn't mean we should stop demanding more. If no one was 'moaning' the devs might not see a need to fix the bugs.

Criticism is essential in order to make things better. If you don't want the bugs fixed, by all means don't moan. But don't stifle the moaning and whining of those of us who do want those bugs fixed. There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em. :up:

Let me modify that slightly...

Constructive Criticism is essential in order to make things better.

Moaning and whinning just gets you ignored by the developers and makes the process that much more difficult.

JCC

[U-Bones]

Just because someone shows up with extra angst and emotion does not mean they don't have constructive criticism to contribute. It seems to me this has been forgotten a few times here and there lately.

[Safe-Keeper]

I agree with John. It's OK to voice your opinions politely, it's another to spam the forum with a ton of threads that add nothing to the community and do nothing to improve the game.

Criticism is essential in order to make things better. If you don't want the bugs fixed, by all means don't moan. But don't stifle the moaning and whining of those of us who do want those bugs fixed.There are shades of grey in the world, as was said. I personally have expressed my feelings with several issues with SH4, such as my disappointment with the editor not being more advanced, but I feel I've done my best in also getting across to the developers that I mean no disrespect, and that I think they did a good job.

And no, constant whining is not a good way to encourage someone to work harder. A good case of point is how there's not going to be an SH4 Commander because JScones felt he got far more whining in return for his work than gratitude.

There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em:up:.
Very altruistic view - 'why do you care if I'm rude to others? You don't have to watch!'. Sure beats 'love thine neighbour' into the dust.

[Elder-Pirate]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!

We have had two patches - both have made the sim better - give the Devs a chance to sort the problems out - its down to UBI soft for releasing it.

i love it - bugs and all



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/awwwlt1.gif
AWwwwwww

[Beery]

There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em:up:.
Very altruistic view - 'why do you care if I'm rude to others? You don't have to watch!'. Sure beats 'love thine neighbour' into the dust.

Criticism is not rudeness. Criticism is the ONLY way to help a game to improve. The posts I find 'rude' are those that seek to stifle dissent and downplay valid criticisms by blanket-labelling them 'whining' or 'moaning'. No one ever helped a game or a game community by endlessly praising a game despite its faults or by stifling valid criticisms.

[SUBMAN1]

* Grunt *

[joea]

There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em:up:.
Very altruistic view - 'why do you care if I'm rude to others? You don't have to watch!'. Sure beats 'love thine neighbour' into the dust.
Criticism is not rudeness. Criticism is the ONLY way to help a game to improve. The posts I find 'rude' are those that seek to stifle dissent and downplay valid criticisms by blanket-labelling them 'whining' or 'moaning'. No one ever helped a game or a game community by endlessly praising a game despite its faults or by stifling valid criticisms.

I agree, but surely you can see the difference between valid criticism and rudeness??? I can give many examples of very rude complaints. Fro the record, I am unhappy with the radar mess, the false positives with the copy-protection scheme, and the messed up conversions between metric and imperial. The historical mistakes I can live with casue I know you and others will fix them and I think some concession was given to those "gamers" wanting action.

For example, I could say, those stupid Romanian devs and the Frogs at Ubisoft in France just messed up the ship sizes in metric casue they can't wanna use teh system that won 2 world wars and we saved French arse LoL. Anyway the devs can't program radar and stupid people wanted FSAA fix and why do my torpedoes circle*

*Note poster may not actually believe this.

[joea]

There's a very quick and easy solution for those who don't like critical threads - don't read 'em:up:.
Very altruistic view - 'why do you care if I'm rude to others? You don't have to watch!'. Sure beats 'love thine neighbour' into the dust.
Criticism is not rudeness. Criticism is the ONLY way to help a game to improve. The posts I find 'rude' are those that seek to stifle dissent and downplay valid criticisms by blanket-labelling them 'whining' or 'moaning'. No one ever helped a game or a game community by endlessly praising a game despite its faults or by stifling valid criticisms.

I agree, but surely you can see the difference between valid criticism and rudeness??? I can give many examples of very rude complaints. Fro the record, I am unhappy with the radar mess, the false positives with the copy-protection scheme, and the messed up conversions between metric and imperial. The historical mistakes I can live with casue I know you and others will fix them and I think some concession was given to those "gamers" wanting action.

For example, I could say,
those stupid Romanian devs and the Frogs at Ubisoft in France just messed up the ship sizes in metric casue they can't wanna use teh system that won 2 world wars and we saved French arse LoL. Anyway the devs can't program radar and stupid people wanted FSAA fix and why do my torpedoes circle*

*Note poster may not actually believe this.

[Beery]

Constructive Criticism is essential in order to make things better.

Moaning and whinning just gets you ignored by the developers and makes the process that much more difficult.

JCC

Those of you who think there's unconstructive criticism going on would be well advised to cite specific examples, rather than seeking to label all criticism a 'whine'. Posting a separate thread that's titled 'Stop F in Moaning' is pure sophistry because without citing specific examples it's merely an attempt to stifle constructive debate. If you have a problem with a 'whiny' post why not address it head-on at its source rather than posting in a separate thread? Oh never mind - I already know why - it's because this thread is a cynical attempt at manipulation. You folks have no basis for the accusations you're making. If you did you would have made them in the offending threads. The fact is, this game is very badly flawed and the vast majority of the so-called 'whining' that's going on is perfectly justified. People have paid $40 for a game that simply does not work properly: look at the chronometer, which is supposed to be useful for judging speed, but which is completely useless for that task. Bugs like that are widespread in the game, and they are not due to 'playing a cracked game or mod conflicts. To suggest that critical posts are merely 'whines' when the game is THIS broken is supremely disingenuous.

And Sailor Steve, I respect you a lot, but I have to say that SH3 was not nearly as flawed as SH4. SH4 is getting as far as it has with folks like me because we remember SH3 and so we give SH4 some extra leeway, but that only goes so far. The developers have some bridges to rebuild, but they won't do it if they don't shape up and deliver patches that solve more problems than they cause.

[Beery]

I can give many examples of very rude complaints...

I wish someone here would. :D

[mookiemookie]

I can give many examples of very rude complaints...
I wish someone here would. :D
;)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/search.php?searchid=135969

[Beery]

I can give many examples of very rude complaints...
I wish someone here would. :D
;)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/search.php?searchid=135969

Broken link or the post was removed. Anyway, if they exist, the place to address them is where they exist, not in a separate thread.

[Gizzmoe]

You folks have no basis for the accusations you're making.
It´s obvious that you haven´t followed many of the discussions here.

If you did you would have made them in the offending threads.
We have.

[Beery]

You folks have no basis for the accusations you're making.
It´s obvious that you haven´t followed many of the discussions here.

If you did you would have made them in the offending threads.
We have.

Then continue to do so, instead of making blanket accusations in a separate thread that seems to make ALL criticism out to be invalid. No one here is defending rudeness. But those of us who are critical of the deeply flawed game that is SH4 do not deserve to be labelled 'whiners'.

[Barkhorn1x]

YOU CAN HAVE ANY OPINION YOU WANT, SO LONG AS ITS THE MODERATORS!


Their board, their dime, their rules.

No one has a "right" to post on forums unless it is your own.

Short civics lesson = It's only censorship when the GOVERNMENT does it.

On private forums, you are allowed to post at the descretion of the owner and the mods. If they feel you crossed a line you get booted. That's just the way it is.

I happen to think that Subsim is pretty lenient in terms of what they allow from posters, bless 'em.

[Gizzmoe]

Then continue to do so, instead of making blanket accusations in a separate thread that seems to make ALL criticism out to be invalid.
This thread is not about the fact that people criticise SH4, it´s about how some people do that.

[Beery]

Then continue to do so, instead of making blanket accusations in a separate thread that seems to make ALL criticism out to be invalid.
This thread is not about the fact that people criticise SH4, it´s about how some people do that.

No. It's an attempt to label all criticism as whining.

[joea]

Then continue to do so, instead of making blanket accusations in a separate thread that seems to make ALL criticism out to be invalid.
This thread is not about the fact that people criticise SH4, it´s about how some people do that.
No. It's an attempt to label all criticism as whining.
What do you call this post?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=501831&postcount=119

...and his answer to my retort was so polite?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=502037&postcount=143

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=502691&postcount=187

I did not accuse him actually was being generous, I came across stronger later on to other posters partly because of answers like that Beery, I did apologise to you when I realised quite a few legit users were having problems..oh and there were veiled comments accusing Neal of being a UBI shill.

[Gizzmoe]

No. It's an attempt to label all criticism as whining.

It isn´t, but if that is what you wanna think, fine. :)

[Ducimus]

http://www.air-and-space.com/20051113-17%20Saline/DSC_4798%20Anthill%20m.jpg
!=

http://www.inkycircus.com/jargon/images/mountain.jpg

[Gizzmoe]

:lol: :up:

[Snowman999]

No. It's an attempt to label all criticism as whining.

It isn´t, but if that is what you wanna think, fine. :)

Well, I think an argument can be made that the thread title itself constitutes "fighting words."

[AVGWarhawk]

No. It's an attempt to label all criticism as whining.
It isn´t, but if that is what you wanna think, fine. :)
Well, I think an argument can be made that the thread title itself constitutes "fighting words."

Well, I would not say fighting words but words that give the new poster a mindset of how this thread is going to progress and what type of posts will be seen. Probably the underlying thought of the OP was to start a thread asking to stop complaining, state your issue, lets figure out what can be done. For example, the circling torpedo....very real thing but to the player who is not informed this is a BUG and needs to have thread started ranting about it. It would be nice for a "Hey, my torpedo just circled on me" is this a bug or something that is supposed to be? Simple answer, now it is out there for others to search the forums for an answer if the same question arises. Sure beats "This Game Sux" thread.:roll:

[wireman]

This game whines. I can hardly wait till it's done being patched and then the quality folks that gave us "Real U-boat", "NYGM", and/or "GWX" make it right.

[fredbass]

Threads come and go here way too fast anymore and I just can't keep up anymore. Most are just a waste of space. So my complaint would be more along the tune of; Don't create a new thread everytime you have something to say. If you have a problem with a bug, then add your comments to the bug thread, for example. :ping: :damn:

[Beery]

The thing is, from the perspective of the player who has a real legitimate gripe, such as the fact that the chronometer doesn't work as it should to gauge a target's speed, 'stop *******in moaning' just doesn't cut it. If the game was bug-free, fine, but it is far from bug-free.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Threads come and go here way too fast anymore and I just can't keep up anymore. Most are just a waste of space. So my complaint would be more along the tune of; Don't create a new thread everytime you have something to say. If you have a problem with a bug, then add your comments to the bug thread, for example. :ping: :damn:

Well put:up: Same for if you have something good to say, there is a thread for that to I think:yep:

RDP

[fredbass]

Threads come and go here way too fast anymore and I just can't keep up anymore. Most are just a waste of space. So my complaint would be more along the tune of; Don't create a new thread everytime you have something to say. If you have a problem with a bug, then add your comments to the bug thread, for example. :ping: :damn:

Well put:up: Same for if you have something good to say, there is a thread for that to I think:yep:

RDP

I just checked the number of threads that I've created since I've been a member here and there is a gigantic, whopping, humongous and extraordinarily large total of FIVE. :lol: :yep: :roll:

[joea]

The thing is, from the perspective of the player who has a real legitimate gripe, such as the fact that the chronometer doesn't work as it should to gauge a target's speed, 'stop *******in moaning' just doesn't cut it. If the game was bug-free, fine, but it is far from bug-free.
Of course, we all want to seperate the wheat from the chaff, right? :yep:

Edit: A good complaint/question

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=513661&posted=1#post513661

[Grunt]

The thing is, from the perspective of the player who has a real legitimate gripe, such as the fact that the chronometer doesn't work as it should to gauge a target's speed, 'stop *******in moaning' just doesn't cut it. If the game was bug-free, fine, but it is far from bug-free.

Beery is clearly a whiner contributing nothing to the community and should be forever stamped as NAGGING TROLL then banned.

JUST KIDDING!

I see it this way, ubi should expect bad press when they put out a bad release.

Also, I and others plunked down cold hard cash for this game that would have been much better spent elsewhere.

Anyone that labels somene as a nagging troll may likewise be labeled a vile hypocritical brown-nosing apologist.

Since SH3 didnt have problems of this magnitude, one of the above is a more apt term.

[AVGWarhawk]

The thing is, from the perspective of the player who has a real legitimate gripe, such as the fact that the chronometer doesn't work as it should to gauge a target's speed, 'stop *******in moaning' just doesn't cut it. If the game was bug-free, fine, but it is far from bug-free.
Beery is clearly a whiner contributing nothing to the community and should be forever stamped as NAGGING TROLL then banned.

JUST KIDDING!

I see it this way, ubi should expect bad press when they put out a bad release.

Also, I and others plunked down cold hard cash for this game that would have been much better spent elsewhere.

Anyone that labels somene as a nagging troll may likewise be labeled a vile hypocritical brown-nosing apologist.

Since SH3 didnt have problems of this magnitude, one of the above is a more apt term.
I happen to agree with you on receiving a poor review and bad press for a product not working as advertised. Sure, most can put up with a bug or two but above and beyond that, it gets distressing. Like anything else, people pay for a product and expect satisfactory performance. If this person is not getting the performance expected, this person has the right to express the dissatisfaction with the product. Repeated expression of the dissatisfaction from post to post get tiresome at best. What really astounds me is most just wish to post a heated complaint and then leave the forums. Most often than not, a game issue has to do with the hardware it is being run on. Don't get me wrong, there are some very bad bugs in this game and should not have left the presses in this state. There also are some machines out there that just can not run it but this issue is also dumped in the developers laps. Lets follow that up with the bad NO CD crack that makes the game do weird things if used. But no, the post will come that the sailors are flat and have bug eyes. Certainly a bug. Well, no not a bug but the NO CD crack and attempting to get around the protection device turned your game to mush.

Basically, before anyone brings out the big guns on the game, step back, take a look at what have as far as hardware. Take a look at what files you messed with. From what I see, there are more playing the game without issue than those that are not because something is wrong either with the game or the machine it is running on. Lately we have been finding it is the machine the game is running on causing problems or a file that was tweeked the wrong way. I do not want to even get into the NO CD crack most complaint posts fail to mention when the bug eye sailor is at the helm.

Just my $1.95 on it:D Inflation!

[Grunt]

I picked up my copy of SH4 via Direct2Drive. D2D has actually been very timely with patches, so theres no complaint there.

But in this case, D2D isnt the problem, SH4 is.

Attempting to pin all bug claims to piracy is dubious, at best, however.

[joea]

Gents, be honest...is this a bad thread or not:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/4011061455

Not picking on anyone here.

[AVGWarhawk]

I picked up my copy of SH4 via Direct2Drive. D2D has actually been very timely with patches, so theres no complaint there.

But in this case, D2D isnt the problem, SH4 is.

Attempting to pin all bug claims to piracy is dubious, at best, however.
I do not know where D2D comes into this conversations but I'm not a fan of using D2D because with the experience with SH3 I had to do many reinstalls. It is just easier to have the disk.

I did not pin issues on piracy soley, as you dubiously pointed out, but piracy is part of the problem some people are having. The protection system is working when a workaround is attempted or a game is pirated. UBI got that right! The hardware that some are running the game on is also causing some of the problems. I did not deny the game has bugs. What I stated is some of the "bugs" are cause by piracy or the hardware the game is being played on. Also, some of the people having issues have fooled with the files in some manner that cause game issue. Could be as simple as a mod that was not removed properly for patch 1.2 or a mod creation was attempted by the user that did not work out. So in summary:

Issue can be caused and have been caused by:

Piracy
Errant mod or file change
Hardware not up to snuff or improper tweeking of the users hardware.

Undisputed bugs not withstanding. If the above three can be taken out of the picture, then what we have left over is the bugs of the game. So far, less than a hand full but certainly more than the average game.

[Elder-Pirate]

The casual gamer...................Now there is a thought.

If I were a casual gamer used to "shootem up bang bangs" and expected to complete the game fairly fast and it did not do so ( even if my computer was or was not up to par ) then the first thing I'd say is "It's buggy, can't be my computer because so & so game played just fine, it's not my fault."

But I am not a casual gamer and I am not used to fancy shootem up bang bang computer games. This I think is what UBI wanted...the casual gamer ( and got them ) to build higher sales. This is mainly the cause of the poor preformance of this ??.......Well it's supposed to be a Submarine Simulation but a lot of the simulation has been left out and it feels more like a high powered "Game" to me. Yes there are bugs and hopefully they will be corrected. I for one did panic before 1.2 and made the statement I'd shelve it and I did...for one week. Ok call me weak but the Simulation ( Thats what I want to think SH4 is ) has a great deal of potential and if possibly the SH4 Devs are allowed to finish SH4 in more patches I'm sure that the PC simulation submariners in this world will be very happy and the casual gamers can go about there shootem up bang bangs games and maybe leave us alone. UBI still is the winner for they did what they set out to do.

P.S. Not forgetting the SH4 modders for they do a fantastic job. :up:

[THE_MASK]

Some noobs who have bought Sh4 dont know how to play and the fact that Sh4 is not finished doesnt help .

[Beery]

the bad NO CD crack that makes the game do weird things if used. But no, the post will come that the sailors are flat and have bug eyes. Certainly a bug. Well, no not a bug but the NO CD crack and attempting to get around the protection device turned your game to mush.

The thing is, many players use no-CD cracks for legitimate reasons. The protection device all-too-often becomes a built-in-obselescence device, since it forces the player to over-use the game disk. I bought two copies of SH3 and I used a no-CD crack because I didn't want to subject my game disk to too much wear. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the DVD in pristine condition and there's nothing wrong with keeping the DVD drive open for other uses while you play the game. What IS wrong is when the developers institute a protection system such as the one used on SH4 - a system that does not protect the game from piracy and which punishes legitimate users just as much as thieves.

[Tobus]

the bad NO CD crack that makes the game do weird things if used. But no, the post will come that the sailors are flat and have bug eyes. Certainly a bug. Well, no not a bug but the NO CD crack and attempting to get around the protection device turned your game to mush.

The thing is, many players use no-CD cracks for legitimate reasons. The protection device all-too-often becomes a built-in-obselescence device, since it forces the player to over-use the game disk. I bought two copies of SH3 and I used a no-CD crack because I didn't want to subject my game disk to too much wear. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the DVD in pristine condition and there's nothing wrong with keeping the DVD drive open for other uses while you play the game. What IS wrong is when the developers institute a protection system such as the one used on SH4 - a system that does not protect the game from piracy and which punishes legitimate users just as much as thieves.

Agreed.

I have bougth the game, do not use no-dvd patch, but had all the problems attributed (on this forum at least) to using a botched no-dvd patch. After uninstall, reinstall and straight to v1.2 instead of v1.0 --> v1.1 --> v1.2, those problems are gone. Being made out for ":arrgh!:" or thief does therefor not sit well with me.

I don't mind too badly about anti-theft code screwing with a game. I actually prefer it to a game not running at all with honest buyers, after which a struggle ensues about how to get money back or at least get another copy (I have been there, wasn't pretty). In the early days of gaming, after 10 minutes of gaming the game would ask for a word from the paper manual from page X. That worked great in retrospect!

I do very mind every bit of coding designed to discourage theft/piracy botching up the game of honest and innocent buyers, like some time ago a lot of legally bought music cd's wouldn't work in car-cd-players, thus FORCING people to go to downloading (and probably not buying a cd ever again). Talk about counter-productive measures!

[Capt. Shark Bait]

All i see on these forums are people Moaning - at the end of the day the guys have produced the best subsim there is - its beautiful to look at and has some real nice touches!

We have had two patches - both have made the sim better - give the Devs a chance to sort the problems out - its down to UBI soft for releasing it.

i love it - bugs and all

QFT, dude:yep: , nor do i recall anyone else coming out with 2 patches within a month or release. and then there're the mods which add to things, especially the CBS radio mod:rock: . i can't get over how tense thing can be when staring down a destroyer heading right for ya:rock:

[AVGWarhawk]

[quote=AVGWarhawk]the bad NO CD crack that makes the game do weird things if used. But no, the post will come that the sailors are flat and have bug eyes. Certainly a bug. Well, no not a bug but the NO CD crack and attempting to get around the protection device turned your game to mush.

What IS wrong is when the developers institute a protection system such as the one used on SH4 - a system that does not protect the game from piracy and which punishes legitimate users just as much as thieves.

You lost me here on this point Beery. Are you translating that having to use the CD constantly to run the game is a form of punishment for the users who purchased the game through proper channels?

[AVGWarhawk]

I have bougth the game, do not use no-dvd patch, but had all the problems attributed (on this forum at least) to using a botched no-dvd patch. After uninstall, reinstall and straight to v1.2 instead of v1.0 --> v1.1 --> v1.2, those problems are gone. Being made out for ":arrgh!:" or thief does therefor not sit well with me.


No one made out anyone as a :arrgh!: or thief. You apparently had a bad install or corrupt file that did not sit well on your hard drive. But, being that you purchased the game and could clean up the first install, reload the game and patches, all is well. I have had plenty of bad installs with games. Simple reinstall like you did and things look good. It is as simple as ruling out possible issues for incorrect game behavior. Unfortunate part of the list for bad game behavior includes the no-dc crack as a possible cause. In your case, it was not used, ok, we can rule that out. Next step? Reinstall the game in the clean vanilla version. It worked for you:up:

[Beery]

Are you translating that having to use the CD constantly to run the game is a form of punishment for the users who purchased the game through proper channels?

Yes. Obviously it is. When I play Chessmaster 10 that game allows me to keep the disk safely in its box - no wear and tear on the disk and I can play music or do whatever I want while the program is starting up. So why not SH4?

[Noisy Hunter]

Are you translating that having to use the CD constantly to run the game is a form of punishment for the users who purchased the game through proper channels?

Yes. Obviously it is. When I play Chessmaster 10 that game allows me to keep the disk safely in its box - no wear and tear on the disk and I can play music or do whatever I want while the program is starting up. So why not SH4?

Because you could lend out your disc out to friends/relatives so they could play without paying

[Uber Gruber]

Lets be honest here....how many people in this forum lend their game CDs/DVDs out to their friends. Sure some of you have done but lets try put a number on it. Let's say you lend one game out of every ten (personally, i've lent perhapps 3 out of the last 100).

Now, when you ask for the CD/DVD back does your friend buy a copy of the game ? I.e. did the CD/DVD act as a demo and hence encourage a sale ?

I think game publishers (in fact all software publishers) are too obsessed with this notion of piracy by end users. Its crap. Most piracy is by big companies who have invested in the CD/DVD print presses required to mass pirate a popular piece of software. These then get flooded into certain markets, mainly in the east.

Actual loss of sales by end user piracy is, for all sense 'n purposes, neglible. And all this "disk must be in computer whilst playing" piracy protection is a complete and utter load of crap....as well as a waste of money. UBI would be better off investing the time and money into producing better games (even completed games would be a start) and hence increase their sales via quality rather than justify their lack of sales via "its those pesky pirates again, they be robbing all our sales they be."

Honestly, it never fails to amaze me how stupid some corporates our....middle management, yep, mindless sheep following tech buzz words with eyes glazed over.

Sorry.....but I feel better already....:arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

Are you translating that having to use the CD constantly to run the game is a form of punishment for the users who purchased the game through proper channels?
Yes. Obviously it is. When I play Chessmaster 10 that game allows me to keep the disk safely in its box - no wear and tear on the disk and I can play music or do whatever I want while the program is starting up. So why not SH4?

I can not answer why not SH4 but we have to look at this way. UBI produced the game and stated that to play the game, the disc must be in the tray and a protection system is on the disc. (Starforce not withstanding and SH3) The public was advised this time:roll: of the protection system. Upon purchasing the game, instructed on how to run it are provided, we can not go back later to place a complaint. We purchased the game with this information. When purchased, one has agreed to the terms of game play at this point. If the would be purchaser does not like having to do this to run the game, the would be purchaser has a choice of not obtaining the game.

[E.Hartmann]

I just love guys with like zero post coming in and making comments like this. Feel some pain first and allow people to crip while you bow at their feet. In the end it aall serves the same purpose and the common good. Accept your buggy POS and never get a good relase again first time out as its now acceptable to get a patch day of release and another one every two weeks. I'd prefer to get a good product out of the box.

Your probably one of those guys that would be happy to drive a Ford Explorer (a few years back) with defective tires because while you were still on the road wheels down, it was fun to drive.

or

Your one of those guys that likes the fact that the hamburger was great going down, its ok if you got saminilia and puked your guts out for a week.

or

You dont mind the fact that your HD was defective in your comouter and you lost all your stuff because the one week it worked it was really cool to have a 500GB harddrive.

or

:dead:


In closing except crap and thats all you'll get the rest of your life.

(But it loks so pretty.....)

[mookiemookie]

I just love guys with like zero post coming in and making comments like this. Feel some pain first and allow people to crip while you bow at their feet. In the end it aall serves the same purpose and the common good. Accept your buggy POS and never get a good relase again first time out as its now acceptable to get a patch day of release and another one every two weeks. I'd prefer to get a good product out of the box.

Your probably one of those guys that would be happy to drive a Ford Explorer (a few years back) with defective tires because while you were still on the road wheels down, it was fun to drive.

or

Your one of those guys that likes the fact that the hamburger was great going down, its ok if you got saminilia and puked your guts out for a week.

or

You dont mind the fact that your HD was defective in your comouter and you lost all your stuff because the one week it worked it was really cool to have a 500GB harddrive.

or

:dead:


In closing except crap and thats all you'll get the rest of your life.

(But it loks so pretty.....)

You seem to think that what you'll get with enough childish complaining (notice the difference between that and constructive criticism) is a better game. You need to realize that, with the sub sim genre, you're more likely to get no more games. Ever.

[TDK1044]

In closing except crap and thats all you'll get the rest of your life.

(But it loks so pretty.....)


Three errors here. There should be a comma after 'closing'. The word 'except' should read as 'accept'. The word 'thats' should read as 'that's' as it's short for 'that is'.

You got 'crap' right though.

[joea]

This from the guy who thought circling torpedoes was a bug. :lol:

[AVGWarhawk]

This from the guy who thought circling torpedoes was a bug. :lol:
Well, during the war it was a serious bug;)....not today in SH4, it is just a career ender if it happens to you:smug:. Fortunate for me I have not gotten a circle runner....

[Sailor Steve]

In closing except crap and thats all you'll get the rest of your life.

(But it loks so pretty.....)


Three errors here. There should be a comma after 'closing'. The word 'except' should read as 'accept'. The word 'thats' should read as 'that's' as it's short for 'that is'.

You got 'crap' right though.
Wattsa matta u? You missed the misspelling of 'looks' as 'loks'.

[Beery]

If the would be purchaser does not like having to do this to run the game, the would be purchaser has a choice of not obtaining the game.

To suggest that there's complete freedom of choice is somewhat disingenuous.

If the player wants to play the game he has no choice - he has to purchase a game with copy protection even if he has no intention of ever copying it or pirating it. In this way we are criminalized no matter whether we're guilty or innocent. The computer game industry goes by standards of jurisprudence that would be laughed out of even a 12th century court - the standard being 'All are guilty'. No proof of innocence necessary, no day in court. If you use the game you are presumed guilty of software piracy, end of story.

[AVGWarhawk]

If the would be purchaser does not like having to do this to run the game, the would be purchaser has a choice of not obtaining the game.
To suggest that there's complete freedom of choice is somewhat disingenuous.

If the player wants to play the game he has no choice - he has to purchase a game with copy protection even if he has no intention of ever copying it or pirating it. In this way we are criminalized no matter whether we're guilty or innocent. The computer game industry goes by standards of jurisprudence that would be laughed out of even a 12th century court - the standard being 'All are guilty'. No proof of innocence necessary, no day in court. If you use the game you are presumed guilty of software piracy, end of story.
There is a choice. To play or not to play because of the protections system. You look at much differently than I. The protection device is to prevent hundreds of copied discs hitting the streets. I certainly do not feel criminlized at all. I have no intentions of burning a disc to sell off to someone. The protection device is to deter the would be burner of illegal DVD's. The larger picture, allow for no protection devices, allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to start burning discs and handing them out. Watch would be profits from your work dwindle to nothing. Do not watch for a follow up game because the last one was a loser on profit.

Your line of thought is like stating the copy write protection is criminalizing you. You can use my product as it was intented but you can't copy it for profit or personal use. We are already stating verbally/written even though the user has not intention of making profit.

Again, it is their work and there copy write. This is there only means of protection for there work. Very simular to the Patent Office and products people create and make. The developers should be afforded the same protection as those that get the patents and copy write protection. By using the Patent Office and Copy write argument, we can state that everyone is then criminalized without a day in court.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Noisy Hunter]

Lets be honest here....how many people in this forum lend their game CDs/DVDs out to their friends. Sure some of you have done but lets try put a number on it. Let's say you lend one game out of every ten (personally, i've lent perhapps 3 out of the last 100).

Now, when you ask for the CD/DVD back does your friend buy a copy of the game ? I.e. did the CD/DVD act as a demo and hence encourage a sale ?

I think game publishers (in fact all software publishers) are too obsessed with this notion of piracy by end users. Its crap. Most piracy is by big companies who have invested in the CD/DVD print presses required to mass pirate a popular piece of software. These then get flooded into certain markets, mainly in the east.

Actual loss of sales by end user piracy is, for all sense 'n purposes, neglible. And all this "disk must be in computer whilst playing" piracy protection is a complete and utter load of crap....as well as a waste of money. UBI would be better off investing the time and money into producing better games (even completed games would be a start) and hence increase their sales via quality rather than justify their lack of sales via "its those pesky pirates again, they be robbing all our sales they be."

Honestly, it never fails to amaze me how stupid some corporates our....middle management, yep, mindless sheep following tech buzz words with eyes glazed over.

Sorry.....but I feel better already....:arrgh!:

I can only assume that this post was directed at me.

First off; what does my total number of posts got to do with this discussion? I've lurked longer than I've posted. Mmmmkay?

Second; I just responded what the reason for the disc-in-driver-policy is. It's so obvious that anyone should know this. I wanted my answer to be simple because I consider the answer to this question obvious; with all due respect but rambling about 12th century courts, prejudice and what not...jeez. If I have to leave my disc in my drive to play; big deal...
I have to use my carkeys to start my car (no Ford Explorer but a Mini Cooper...)
I work at an airport; everyday I have to identify myself 20+ times (badges, codes, physical searches, etc). I have never felt that I was looked at as a terrrorist...Would you?

No hard feelings Beery; I love reading your technical posts and I love your super-mod even more. But sometimes you seem to forget we are talking about a 40 euro/50 USD toy...

[Uber Gruber]

@Noisy Hunter

Sorry mate but my post was definately not aimed at you or anyone else. It was just me venting a bit of steam about how game publishers seem obsessed with end user piracy reducing sales when they really should be obsessed with producing quality games to increase sales.

End user piracy is minimal, I wonder if its just an excuse that gets bandied about to attempt to justify low sales.....when really it's simply cos the game production was miss-managed yet again.

Still feel better though....:arrgh!:

[Noisy Hunter]

@Noisy Hunter

Sorry mate but my post was definately not aimed at you or anyone else. It was just me venting a bit of steam about how game publishers seem obsessed with end user piracy reducing sales when they really should be obsessed with producing quality games to increase sales.

End user piracy is minimal, I wonder if its just an excuse that gets bandied about to attempt to justify low sales.....when really it's simply cos the game production was miss-managed yet again.

Still feel better though....:arrgh!:

Uber gruber:

As a forum noob I misqouted your post... Is my face red? :oops:

I wanted to quote that other post...:damn:

[John Channing]

@Noisy Hunter

Sorry mate but my post was definately not aimed at you or anyone else. It was just me venting a bit of steam about how game publishers seem obsessed with end user piracy reducing sales when they really should be obsessed with producing quality games to increase sales.

End user piracy is minimal, I wonder if its just an excuse that gets bandied about to attempt to justify low sales.....when really it's simply cos the game production was miss-managed yet again.

Still feel better though....:arrgh!:

To your first point they are not mutually exclusive propositions.

To your second point do you really think Ubisoft would invest the money if their research showed it was a waste? They don't make the DVD case with Fresh-Picked Applicious flavor because they know the extra cost will not be outstipped by extra sales as a result of adding it. The same logic applies to paying out a substantial amount for copy protection.

We are talking about a Billion dollar a year company here. You really have to assume they know what they are about. (and before anyone pipes up with the tired, old cliche "I worked for a big company and they didn't know nuthin'"... unless you were at the Senior Management level, you didn't really have a clue about anything other than your job.)

So if anyone has some facts that point to the contrary about PPS, I am sure Ubisoft would be thrilled to see them.

JCC

[Beery]

We are talking about a Billion dollar a year company here. You really have to assume they know what they are about.

No we don't. Lack of evidence either way is no proof either way. But anyway, evidence of big companies doing incredibly stupid things does exist - look at Enron, look at Sony Online Entertainment and the SWG NGE, look at Sierra Online and the horribly mismanaged Red Baron 2 launch. We shouldn't assume that any big company knows what it's about. As often as not they're just muddling through, and if you put money on a big company based on blind faith and the fact that the company has money, you shouldn't be surprised if you lose your cash.

[Beery]

But sometimes you seem to forget we are talking about a 40 euro/50 USD toy...

But some people (especially in this thread) don't seem to realise that $50 is a lot of money to spend on something that just doesn't work properly - even if it is 'only a toy' (as if we should be more forgiving of shoddily made toys).

Anyone would think, from reading the posts of those defending the game, that this game worked perfectly well and that folks like me were just nitpicking and trolling for the sake of it. I mean we can't even use the chronometer to gauge a target ship's speed, for heaven's sake! What sort of flaws do there have to be for some folks here to admit the game has significant problems?

It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that folks like me are going to be the ones stuck with fixing or making work-arounds for the bugs that the devs don't get around to. I mean I have to pay $50 to play the bloody thing, then I get unfairly treated as a pirate by the game company and forced to jump through hoops just to play their bug-ridden and flawed game, then eventually (if I want to play the game as it should be played) I even have to fix what the developers run out of the will to fix.

[John Channing]

We are talking about a Billion dollar a year company here. You really have to assume they know what they are about.

No we don't. Lack of evidence either way is no proof either way. But anyway, evidence of big companies doing incredibly stupid things does exist - look at Enron, look at Sony Online Entertainment and the SWG NGE, look at Sierra Online and the horribly mismanaged Red Baron 2 launch. We shouldn't assume that any big company knows what it's about. As often as not they're just muddling through, and if you put money on a big company based on blind faith and the fact that the company has money, you shouldn't be surprised if you lose your cash.

Yup... 3 examples out of millions and millions of companies is a real thick slab of concrete to build your arguement on

But it is really easy to sit way up in the bleachers, second guessing everything when you have no stake or risk... not to mention cheap.

And if you can't afford the 50 bucks what are you doing with a system than can run it properly. Or are they giving those away in every box of Cheerios?

Now if you will excuse me I have to go to a Senior Staff meeting where we will be discussing how to piss away our stakeholders investments in the most ludricous possible fashion we can think of. Then I have a two hour meeting on "Effective Muddling for Top Level Executives"

My favorite part is where we light our big fat cigars with Stock Certificates. and Hundred Dollar bills (an extra helping of stupid cliche, anyone?)

JCC

[Noisy Hunter]

Is 50 USD for a game a lot???

I visited a Champions league game (soccer). I paid 120 USD for it... 80 USD per hour. It was a very tactical (read boring) match.

I played my favorite game Football manager 2007(I know, I love football...) for 240 hours (there is an in-game tracker) = 20 cents per hour. And I'm still playing.

[Gizzmoe]

I mean I have to pay $50 to play the bloody thing, then I get unfairly treated as a pirate by the game company and forced to jump through hoops just to play their bug-ridden and flawed game, then eventually (if I want to play the game as it should be played) I even have to fix what the developers run out of the will to fix.
Yeah, it´s really a shame how Ubisoft forced you at gunpoint to do all this.

[CaptainCox]

What the FRACK is ur prob man! like some one said "THE BEST G..DARN SIM OUT THERE!!!!" I play this game like 24/7 and I can't say I am getting even close to getting peed off...not even close. Infact i never played any game this intense since I started playing games...back in 85 or what ever...oh dear, those good ol C64 days :smug:

[mookiemookie]

Anyone would think, from reading the posts of those defending the game, that this game worked perfectly well and that folks like me were just nitpicking and trolling for the sake of it. I mean we can't even use the chronometer to gauge a target ship's speed, for heaven's sake! What sort of flaws do there have to be for some folks here to admit the game has significant problems?



No one is denying that there exists a lot of problems with the game. And no one that I can see (certainly not me) is coming down on you personally for pointing out the game flaws. You do it in a constructive and mature manner. What they ARE coming down on is the immature "OMG UBISOFT IS A BUNCH OF EVIL RAPISTS WHO TRCIKED US ALLLLL AND THEM STOMPED ON MY PUPPY DOG! SH4 SUCXCCCKCKCKCKCKCKCKCKSSSSZZZZ!" That's the sort of whining and bitching that no one appreciates, and what I think most of us are trying to point out as being stupid.

[Vecna]

First bashing thread i've stumbled across on this forum, maybe there is more but that's not why I decided to write down a few lines in this one.

Ok, i've seen word like illigal, pirate, copy protection etc. and while copy protection provides a certain "security" to a game not to be freely distubuted or mass copied it also grant people sequels or new releases from a company.

When it comes to bugs there is nothing better that letting hundreds of ppl flush them out rather than releasing a game 2 years later with crappy graphic because it took the team 2 years more to experience most of them. The worst bugs i've seen in games are when I jumped on the MMORPG train on several games when they launch, there the word "bug" really comes true.

I have a suggestion to anyone that don't like bugs in game releases, wait 6 months or so and it will be better, seriously. I've been in a few beta and I don't mind bugs but I do like to flush them out and help out. The world is full of weird people I know

I personally don't agree that they should release games without copy protection because it keeps stupid kids from downloading games so they buy them instead which results in sequels or new games.

Most of the people don't use pirate copys and to say something in the line of "If everyone would do like you do...." well that agrument is worthless and stupid simply because it will never happen.

Now I happen to like collectors edition boxes :doh: just because I just like them. Guess I better say it again just in case someone didn't get my point and came to the assumption that I do support pirates, NO I don't.

I usually don't think twice about what i'm buying because it's not much if anything really but collector edition boxes looks really nice and I think it has a special feeling to it too :up:

[Grunt]

I wonder how ubi greases these apologists. Maybe they get free games or something? Nothing else could explain the level of verbal gymnastics displayed here.

Its like ole' Nikita Khrushchev said "You spit in their face and they call it dew". The dev's did it, got paid to do it, and seem to derive extreme satisfaction from doing it.

Me? Spit in my face, I spit back...twice.

[AVGWarhawk]

I wonder how ubi greases these apologists. Maybe they get free games or something? Nothing else could explain the level of verbal gymnastics displayed here.

Its like ole' Nikita Khrushchev said "You spit in their face and they call it dew". The dev's did it, got paid to do it, and seem to derive extreme satisfaction from doing it.

Me? Spit in my face, I spit back...twice.

If it spits twice is it a 'bug';)

[Grunt]

From you, sir, that is high praise indeed. :rotfl:

"All my enemies are self-appointed." -- Robert Heinlein

[AVGWarhawk]

From you, sir, that is high praise indeed. :rotfl:

"All my enemies are self-appointed." -- Robert Heinlein


:up: Glad you liked it.

[Takeda Shingen]

"All my enemies are self-appointed." -- Robert Heinlein

The shaft of the arrow had been feathered with one of the eagle's own plumes. We often give our enemies the means of our own destruction.
~Aesop, The Eagle and the Arrow

[DragonRR1]

Personally I find it ludicrous that all of you, including moderators I might add, are ganging up on this Fin character.. I mean what on earth has he done???? :stare:

[U-Bones]

Personally I find it ludicrous that all of you, including moderators I might add, are ganging up on this Fin character.. I mean what on earth has he done???? :stare:
Dunno, but this thread was good bait.

[wireman]

moderate man, moderate.

[Herr Kapitan]

Fact is UBI have a duty of care to it's paying customers to fix this game toot sweet.

They have no excuse whatsoever for releasing this game in its current state, and I find it quite ammusing that people jump for joy when stating how they have released 2 patches so quickly after release.

Now if they patch everything so that no bugs remain then they will probably be forgiven, but if they pull the same stunt that they did with SH3, namely walking away without fixing all the bugs, how many will remember and forgive when SH5 hits the shelves.

Incidentally all of this fawning over how fortunate we are to have a sub sim, and how grateful we should be to UBI for making SH4 makes me sick.

The only reason UBI made this game was to make money, not to please it's adoring sub sim fans. UBI do not give a toss what it's paying customers think unless they keep their cash in their pockets. Only then will they stop releasing games that are imcomplete and asking full price for them, a practice that is unethical to say the least.

[Herr Kapitan]

I mean I have to pay $50 to play the bloody thing, then I get unfairly treated as a pirate by the game company and forced to jump through hoops just to play their bug-ridden and flawed game, then eventually (if I want to play the game as it should be played) I even have to fix what the developers run out of the will to fix.
Yeah, it´s really a shame how Ubisoft forced you at gunpoint to do all this.

No Ubisoft's fault is taking his cash for an incomplete product that did not work properly at point of sale, and whats more they knew it was broken as well.

[Grunt]

Seeing how fast the patch came out, Id have to agree.

[John Channing]

Incidentally all of this fawning over how fortunate we are to have a sub sim, and how grateful we should be to UBI for making SH4 makes me sick.



Then perhaps this is not the place for you. We certainly wouldn't want you getting all sick and stuff!

JCC

[Herr Kapitan]

Incidentally all of this fawning over how fortunate we are to have a sub sim, and how grateful we should be to UBI for making SH4 makes me sick.


Then perhaps this is not the place for you. We certainly wouldn't want you getting all sick and stuff!

JCC

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:: rotfl::rotfl:

[Monica Lewinsky]

Then perhaps this is not the place for you. We certainly wouldn't want you getting all sick and stuff!

JCC
Would have to agree. There are some post subjects I do not bother to read anymore like the 1.2 bugs or 1.3 wish list for example because all the RANTS. Makes researching difficult, at best.

[Herr Kapitan]

Then perhaps this is not the place for you. We certainly wouldn't want you getting all sick and stuff!

JCC Would have to agree. There are some post subjects I do not bother to read anymore like the 1.2 bugs or 1.3 wish list for example because all the RANTS. Makes researching difficult, at best.

Don't read it then, now that was easy was it not?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Don't read it then, now that was easy was it not?My point is I stopped reading them about a week ago. It is ashame there are too many folks that "wig out" and ruin something that could be useful and informative for everyone.

[TDK1044]

After more than two thousand viewings and over one hundred postings, I think this thread is done. Closing thread.