SH3 Apt Tune

[Penelope_Grey]

One of my favourite songs is In The End by Linkin Park.

I was listening to it last night on patrol over my grammaphone, and I couldn't help but think how apt it was in describing the U-boat war.

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end... it doesn't even matter.

How true is that, the Uboats all tried so hard and fought so fiercely making big successes yet, in the end, it was all for nothing, and they lost everything as a result of their effort.

I put my trust in you, pushed as far as I could go.

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.

[GoldenRivet]

good tune and good point

of course if the u boats didnt get so far and try so hard the allies would have probably been ableto invade a year or two earlier than they did.

[Jimbuna]

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.

Amen :yep:

[robbo180265]

Too true. The more I read about U Boats, the more respect I have for the crews.

@ P.G.
Are you aware that there is a new Linkin' Park single ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sgycukafqQ

:oops: Sorry off topic, I know

[Kaleun Cook]

I don't want to offend anyone, just posting my opinion.

Brave etc. or not - these guys would help nazi germany to kill thousands of british, american and whatsoever nation's sailors for the "Endsieg". Of course young men were forced to serve in the military and maybe had little chance not to do it (although there are countless examples how people found their way around it) but still every sunken ship, every shot plane, every dead enemy soldier supported a system that created the industrial genocide.

Therefor I find any chorus of praise in this context very difficult if not indefensible.

[P_Funk]

I don't want to offend anyone, just posting my opinion.

Brave etc. or not - these guys would help nazi germany to kill thousands of british, american and whatsoever nation's sailors for the "Endsieg". Of course young men were forced to serve in the military and maybe had little chance not to do it (although there are countless examples how people found their way around it) but still every sunken ship, every shot plane, every dead enemy soldier supported a system that created the industrial genocide.

Therefor I find any chorus of praise in this context very difficult if not indefensible. :roll:

Look we all know Nazi Germany was evil. Yadda yadda yadda. But we always love to forget that we were real wankers too. I mean between Dresden and Hiroshima we did our share of killing innocents. I'm not understating the Holocaust but, lets have some perspective.

In addition to that, what of the young men who did their duty for their nation, a nation which existed before Hitler? They fought and they died for their homeland and the only reason we will look down on them is because they lost. Unless its a game where we're playing as an SS guard at a death camp I don't think that we need to be playing the "they supported an evil regime" card.

Fact is that out own nations routinely support evil despotic, and even genocidal regimes. The righteous and the evil is an easy game to play but it has little basis in reality.

And lastly, what do the lyrics have to do with glory? I see in them a dark defeatist meaning. If anything it can be seen in the context of U-boats as a metaphor for the very futility that the members of the kriegsmarine fought for.

Okay. End of that.

For my vote for most apt song it would have to be "U-boat" by Kasabian. The song actually begins with the sounds of u-boat screws underwater. And the mood is good for the game too.:rock:

[Jimbuna]

For my vote for most apt song it would have to be "U-boat" by Kasabian.

Personally speaking, I don't particularly like their music :nope: But that individual track is really quite cool :yep:
My own personal favourite has got to be 'Ride of the Valkyrie' :rock:

[Kaleun Cook]

Look we all know Nazi Germany was evil. Yadda yadda yadda.

Sry, but using "yadda, yadda, yadda" to wipe that fact away is just disgusting to me.

But we always love to forget that we were real wankers too. I mean between Dresden and Hiroshima we did our share of killing innocents.

That's the argument neonazi parties in germany use to put the holocaust on the same level with for example Dresden or Hiroshima. But that is impossible. Nothing compares to the dimension of the industrial genocide Germany began. Also, if you think of Dresden or maybe russian soldiers that are being accused of raping german women when they reached the country, keep in mind that that stuff was a reaction to the terror Germany had spread the years before. Of course that doesn't excuse these reactions - but it makes them understandable. In contrast Germany had no reason for its actions at all.

Unless its a game where we're playing as an SS guard at a death camp I don't think that we need to be playing the "they supported an evil regime" card.

Indeed - but this thread is about the "real German Submariners [who] were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2".

And lastly, what do the lyrics have to do with glory?

Nothing, sry, found the wrong word in some online dictionary (actually I am german, excuse any spelling mistakes, plz). Still, quoting "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter" somewhat implicates "awww, in the end they lost". One should be glad they did, if not you might be exercising under the command of some Helga Schulz the whole day now instead of playing computer games. ;)

[P_Funk]

I'm not belittling the Holocaust. I think I already said that. My point, is that war is war. Whatever happened behind the scenes is irrelavent when we're talking about a branch of the military that had little to do with the crimes of the Nazis. We learned of the Holocaust AFTER it happened. Hitler might have been bad but the vast majority of the people fighting for Germany weren't particularly different from anyone else.

And I didn't use 'yadda yadda yadda' to wipe away the reality. I just mean to say that we are fully aware of it. There are about 3 or 4 holocaust documentaries on the History channel a week. I have seen my fair share of emaciated bodies being piled into holes.

I just really get tired of the constant reminder that we should be so grim about the Nazis. I get it, they were bad. They were really bad. We've learned that in 3 seperate grades in High School. But to constantly get that thrown back at us like we should be walking on egg shells everytime we don't unambiguously root for the home team in WW2 discussions is just tiring and unnessesary.

As for indulging in a little fantasy with this game, its a fetish. All fantasies of war are a fetish that somehow makes it so attractive. And again I'll reiterate that the U-bootswaffe was as far from the genocide as you could get, in the middle of the Atlantic.

So lets all just listen to some loud music and sink fake ships.

[Kaleun Cook]

So lets all just listen to some loud music and sink fake ships.

I agree. :arrgh!:

[joea]

I'm not belittling the Holocaust. I think I already said that. We learned of the Holocaust AFTER it happened. Hitler might have been bad but the vast majority of the people fighting for Germany weren't particularly different from anyone else.


Well the Holocaust was not the only evil thing the Nazis did, read up a bit on the occupation of Russia. It was not just SS responsible by the way.


Yes I do admire the u-boat crews for going out, but I always feel a sense fo bitterness at such talent wasted. Have to go but will think about this more.

[robbo180265]

Hitler might have been bad but the vast majority of the people fighting for Germany weren't particularly different from anyone else.


And isn't that the whole point?

The vast majority of Germans in WW2 had as much choice about wether to fight or not as our guys (probably less)Yes Germany did some terrible things, but to blame the whole of Germany and it's millitary for them is completely wrong. As P Funk says, the U Boat crews were about as far removed from the Nazi ideals as you can get.
I'm glad that they didn't succeed, but I'm also able to see that facing certain death as well as being sent on suicide missions (Ramming ships on D - Day for Christ's sake!) took a certain amount of bravery - the like of which I'm never likely to show/need.

And I acknowledge that bravery.

[Penelope_Grey]

Too true. The more I read about U Boats, the more respect I have for the crews.

@ P.G.
Are you aware that there is a new Linkin' Park single ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sgycukafqQ

:oops: Sorry off topic, I know

No I was not aware! Do'h. Thanks for the heads up!

[P_Funk]

The vast majority of Germans in WW2 had as much choice about wether to fight or not as our guys (probably less).
The other thing to consider there is that Hitler really did seem like a hero before the war. Faced with economic collapse and a deep shame at just being German, its easy to see how people could be inspired by him. I've seen his speeches. He might have been one bad mothersucker but he was good at getting people on board. And given the way the rest of Europe treated post war Germany in the 20s, we can't begin to judge people's state of mind. After the fact, we know Hitler was the worst criminal in centuries.

Well the Holocaust was not the only evil thing the Nazis did, read up a bit on the occupation of Russia. It was not just SS responsible by the way.
And there were plenty of Allied incidents of utter evil. I'm not saying its all evened out. Its just that the absolutism of how we say "EVIL" is much exaggerated. And I think that Vietnam has proven that even the sweetest Christian Choir boys can do heinous things too. War makes people do sick things. The Nazis just outdid the rest of them, by alot.

[STEED]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg

I need not say anymore. ;)

[P_Funk]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg

I need not say anymore. ;)
Party Pooper.

[STEED]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg

I need not say anymore. ;)
Party Pooper.

Not my job but if it went on the big (S) would be in to say a few things.

Carry on. :shifty:

[robbo180265]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg

I need not say anymore. ;)
Party Pooper.

Not my job but if it went on the big (S) would be in to say a few things.

Carry on. :shifty:

:rotfl: :rotfl:
I consider my wrists slapped - we were off topic a bit:oops:

[P_Funk]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg

I need not say anymore. ;) Party Pooper.
Not my job but if it went on the big (S) would be in to say a few things.

Carry on. :shifty:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I consider my wrists slapped - we were off topic a bit:oops:
From Linkin Park to the Holocaust? I'd bloody say so.:doh:

[q65]

Its all perspective. Allies won the war and won the right to set the rules. Had the Axis won the war then they would have set the rules and many of the Allies generals would have hung for war crimes.
I'm thankful the Allies won.
To me this is just a game that allows me to understand in a very small way what might have gone through a Sub Captains head.

[STEED]

Seth dose not have to post any comments all he has to do is put his http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/greywolf.jpg in the thread and people take note.

The power of the wolf. :yep:

PS: Sorry Seth for pinching your personal icon I will nip out to give myself six of the best.

[kurtz]

C'mon back on topic poor Penelope asked a perfectly valid question and people have been chewing over questions we've been digesting for 60 odd years:nope:

FWIW I think the nazis were pretty naughty.

I think the best music for SHIII is Elgar esp. Nimrod. BTW nimrod was named after a friend of his call Jaeger which of course is german for hunter-so how pretty damned appropriate is that?:D

Mike

[P_Funk]

C'mon back on topic poor Penelope asked a perfectly valid question and people have been chewing over questions we've been digesting for 60 odd years:nope: Hey. I answered the question too.:p

For my vote for most apt song it would have to be "U-boat" by Kasabian. The song actually begins with the sounds of u-boat screws underwater. And the mood is good for the game too.:rock:

It just feels so right.:yep:

[robbo180265]

Haven't been playing SHIII for a while (it bugged out one time too many - and I've discovered Medieval Total War II now:up: )

However when I do play I find Wagner goes quite well:D

[Morts]

FWIW I think the nazis were pretty naughty.


Mike

:o :o :o nice observation sherlock:rotfl: :rotfl:


j/k

[kurtz]

FWIW I think the nazis were pretty naughty.


Mike

:o :o :o nice observation sherlock:rotfl: :rotfl:


j/k
Absolute rotters really, but have you seen this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY

[GoldenRivet]

Just my opinion here based on what i have read and been told by 60- 70 plus year old ethnic Germans...

Naziism started out as a pro-labor political party which was meant to return power and strength to Germany, increase support for the workers and laborers, directly address economical and social strife in Germany and protect Germany from the spread of communism. The political party in and of itself was not bad... its ideals were sound and made sense to a lot of people.

Hitler who was promoted to head of propoganda within the party later became the chief figurhead and party leader. When he subjected a perfectly legitimate political party to adopting his own political and social beliefs of anti-semitism, anti-communism, the belief in a master race and fascism things began to degrade for Germany and the party.

Hitler and the Nazi party sought to regain the territory lost to germany after WW1 in the treaty of versailles... problem is that Hitler sought to do this through military action instead of simply building up a strong well respected nation with a great military and economy and then achieving these things through the use of diplomacy over the course of several years. Germany and the Nazis were on the right road up until the very late 1930s.

Through the use of the SS, and largely to the fault of Hitler and Heinrich Himmler the extermination of the Jews was began as well as the campaign to "take over the world"... and thus the fate of Nazism as a legitimate and respectable political party was sealed.

Post world war two the term NAZI no longer refers to an appropriate or admissable political party that is pro-labor, with a strong national principle... when someone says NAZI thoughts of mass murder, hatred and racism come to mind.

Nazism appealed to many people around the globe at the time of its creation not just Germans... It is unfortunate that such a political system could be forever ruined by the attrocities of it's leaders.

Germania... truly a paradise lost.

flame away :shifty:

BTW hilarious you tube link!!!

[P_Funk]

flame away :shifty:
Nice summation. :yep: But yes... I can feel the paint on my boat feeling from the heat to come.:roll:

[robbo180265]

This time I'm saying nothing:smug:

[Penelope_Grey]

This time I'm saying nothing:smug:

Coward!:rotfl:

[P_Funk]

This time I'm saying nothing:smug:
Coward!:rotfl:
Once more into the breach dear friend? :arrgh!:

[robbo180265]

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/robbo180265/greywolf.jpg

I can hear the sound of howling in the distance.............:rotfl:

[Dimitrius07]

Lets leave the politic to the politicians shall we :D. If we talking about uboat man - yes i think they deserve respect for they corage.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

One of my favourite songs is In The End by Linkin Park.

I was listening to it last night on patrol over my grammaphone, and I couldn't help but think how apt it was in describing the U-boat war.

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end... it doesn't even matter.

How true is that, the Uboats all tried so hard and fought so fiercely making big successes yet, in the end, it was all for nothing, and they lost everything as a result of their effort.

I put my trust in you, pushed as far as I could go.

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.

i would prefer calling the allies:shifty: .
ALL WHO PLAYS SH3 IS IN THE SHOES OF A GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDER :damn:.
and all soldiers are bastards. but the most unfair event in history (and a perfect example to all who says nazi's were bad) is the nuke on hiroshima.:down:
NOW THATS UNFAIR!!!

[GoldenRivet]

One of my favourite songs is In The End by Linkin Park.

I was listening to it last night on patrol over my grammaphone, and I couldn't help but think how apt it was in describing the U-boat war.

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end... it doesn't even matter.

How true is that, the Uboats all tried so hard and fought so fiercely making big successes yet, in the end, it was all for nothing, and they lost everything as a result of their effort.

I put my trust in you, pushed as far as I could go.

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.
i would prefer calling the allies:shifty: .
ALL WHO PLAYS SH3 IS IN THE SHOES OF A GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDER :damn:.
and all soldiers are bastards. but the most unfair event in history (and a perfect example to all who says nazi's were bad) is the nuke on hiroshima.:down:
NOW THATS UNFAIR!!!

I dont know... being familiar with the invasion plans and the literally millions upon millions of soldiers and women and children that would have died in Operation Downfall i think dropping the bombs was the most humaine way of ending agressions against Japan given the situation - of course hind sight is 20/20 though.

ever heard the term "all is fair in love and war"?

The atomic bomb was fair. think the Japanese wouldnt have used it against anyone if they had developed it? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

please.

I admire the tact and restraint the allies used in their plans for the Atomic Bomb. Not only did the allies attempt to select cities that housed a large military population but Some world leaders at the time would have dropped it on several if not all japanese cities essentially destroying the entire japanese race. (or most of it).

Post ww2 The United States of America had more to do with the rebuilding and restructuring of Japan than any other nation on earth - period.

the pearl harbour attacks...

unfair - no - perfectly fair to surprise attack someone especially if your attack plans are meant to disable the enemy's means of fighting you before the fight even starts

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? absolutely not.

the dropping of the atomic bombs...

unfair - no - in fact it saved about 100 times as many lives as it took

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? Nope.

i would hardly go so far as to call everyone who playes SH3 as a German U-boat commander a "bastard" and i would never call a soldier a "bastard".

first off, in my VIDEO GAME collection i... and many others here... have played as American, British, Russian and German soldiers in "CALL OF DUTY", we have played cowboys and indians in the wild west with "GUN", we have saved the world time and time again from aliens in games like "HALF LIFE", we have terrorized the skies of europe in "COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR" and "IL2" - these are all just GAMES to many of us... occasionally a window to history... occasionally a few hours of mindless entertainment.

and to call a soldier a "bastard" is just the worst thing i have heard - it is because of soldiers that you are able to sit on your arse and talk nasty about soldiers and play games in the first place.

Ebert and Roeper give you.... :down: :down:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

One of my favourite songs is In The End by Linkin Park.

I was listening to it last night on patrol over my grammaphone, and I couldn't help but think how apt it was in describing the U-boat war.

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end... it doesn't even matter.

How true is that, the Uboats all tried so hard and fought so fiercely making big successes yet, in the end, it was all for nothing, and they lost everything as a result of their effort.

I put my trust in you, pushed as far as I could go.

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.
i would prefer calling the allies:shifty: .
ALL WHO PLAYS SH3 IS IN THE SHOES OF A GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDER :damn:.
and all soldiers are bastards. but the most unfair event in history (and a perfect example to all who says nazi's were bad) is the nuke on hiroshima.:down:
NOW THATS UNFAIR!!!

I dont know... being familiar with the invasion plans and the literally millions upon millions of soldiers and women and children that would have died in Operation Downfall i think dropping the bombs was the most humaine way of ending agressions against Japan given the situation - of course hind sight is 20/20 though.

ever heard the term "all is fair in love and war"?

The atomic bomb was fair. think the Japanese wouldnt have used it against anyone if they had developed it? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

please.

I admire the tact and restraint the allies used in their plans for the Atomic Bomb. Not only did the allies attempt to select cities that housed a large military population but Some world leaders at the time would have dropped it on several if not all japanese cities essentially destroying the entire japanese race. (or most of it).

Post ww2 The United States of America had more to do with the rebuilding and restructuring of Japan than any other nation on earth - period.

the pearl harbour attacks...

unfair - no - perfectly fair to surprise attack someone especially if your attack plans are meant to disable the enemy's means of fighting you before the fight even starts

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? absolutely not.

the dropping of the atomic bombs...

unfair - no - in fact it saved about 100 times as many lives as it took

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? Nope.

i would hardly go so far as to call everyone who playes SH3 as a German U-boat commander a "bastard" and i would never call a soldier a "bastard".

first off, in my VIDEO GAME collection i... and many others here... have played as American, British, Russian and German soldiers in "CALL OF DUTY", we have played cowboys and indians in the wild west with "GUN", we have saved the world time and time again from aliens in games like "HALF LIFE", we have terrorized the skies of europe in "COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR" and "IL2" - these are all just GAMES to many of us... occasionally a window to history... occasionally a few hours of mindless entertainment.

and to call a soldier a "bastard" is just the worst thing i have heard - it is because of soldiers that you are able to sit on your arse and talk nasty about soldiers and play games in the first place.

Ebert and Roeper give you.... :down: :down:

i just made him/her clear that if you say that just 1 army are basterds you are wrong...
i also like play Call Of Duty... but i dislike it for leaving a german campain away from it... you can only play as a whermacht soldier in multyplayer. same with Medal Of Honnour. its all based on the allies.
combat flight sims are based on both.
sub sims are based on both (SH3 - SH4)
Destroyer command is based on allies bt SH2 on germans. sill you can play both games togheter.

[GoldenRivet]

unfortunate that they never finished the "German Front" mod for Call of Duty. i was drouling over that one and poof - just never finished it.

shame

[joea]

Man this thread went downhill fast, just got two links and a comment, aggresors always have a lot to justify...even for ahem "pre-emptive" attacks or if they were "forced" to act, and one can fight nobly for a "wrong "cause...or like a bastard for the "right" one.


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/USSR2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Bye to this thread from me. :dead:

[Spytrx]

I don't want to offend anyone, just posting my opinion.

Brave etc. or not - these guys would help nazi germany to kill thousands of british, american and whatsoever nation's sailors for the "Endsieg". Of course young men were forced to serve in the military and maybe had little chance not to do it (although there are countless examples how people found their way around it) but still every sunken ship, every shot plane, every dead enemy soldier supported a system that created the industrial genocide.

Therefor I find any chorus of praise in this context very difficult if not indefensible.

So on that same note you must condemn the Russians for killing more of their own soldiers than the war did (besides from spreading suffering for many years after the war ended), the Americans for dropping two atomic bombs on civilians (the first one deliberately to see what effects it has), the British for their colonization policies (and subsequent slaughter of the Zulu's and many other nations, besides being the true inventors of the concentration camps) and deliberate bombing of civilian targets out of spite in the end, the Japanese for their cruelty to their PoW's -- shall I go on? Your bias view is very narrow minded (sorry, but there is a lack of tacktful words in my vocabulary) - go and learn about the war first before making such a statement (particularly what lead to the war in the first place). The German soldier never really had a choice in the matter. You might want to read up on the three o'clock call from the GeStaPo, indoctrination, Propaganda, and brain washing (particularly of youngsters in school). Of interest might also be to look into the life of a person under a tyrannic system (hell, America thinks they live in a democracy yet look what is happening there - and do all the Americans that voted for the government want to be associated with what is happening right now (which is nothing compared to the late 30's, but worth bearing in mind) and/or is that all down to blind patriotism (hmm, isn't that just another word for / description of how to see Germans in the third Reich)?

I find it very disturbing that people always assume that the little person on the street knew what was going on in the concentration camps mostly located in the East (not on German soil), took part in the decision making at the top level, had a say (or even a vote) on any matter that went on in the third Reich, and that every German was a Nazi! Quite the opposite was true.

If you can't seperate the honour that went on on the battlefield by the normal soldier (not the SS or other special units) and appreciate the feats that were achieved by a group of incredible brave men then you really shouldn't comment at all (sorry, but that is my opinion). Even the Allied military leaders had nicer things to say about their opponents... Never ever forget that history is written by the victor and that there is more to it than just a simple 'they were evil and that is what they did and so we went in and wiped the floor with their faces' - horrendous things went on on all sides and in all camps that are not talked about...

[P_Funk]

And so the opera continues. :roll:

;)

[robbo180265]

And so the opera continues. :roll:

;)

I reckon we'd do well to stay out of this one matey;)

How did it get so serious?:o

Linkin' Park have a new CD out on may 15th:up: (I'm trying to get this thread back on track-honest:know:)

[HM.Medico]

Another good hunting song, as in tail end of hunting (line up, firing etc.) is strangely enough, the HALO theme...or at least the drum bits of it. Download it and give it a shot (If you own HALO that is...)

[P_Funk]

I like listening to Live Jimi Hendrix too. Line up one of his catastrophic end-of-song distortion feedback loops with the sinking of a ship and you got yourself some mighty powerful visuals.:D

Its like a sorta Vietnam war movie kinda feeling, but with much less of that malaise of senseless brutal human defeatism.:roll:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

I don't want to offend anyone, just posting my opinion.

Brave etc. or not - these guys would help nazi germany to kill thousands of british, american and whatsoever nation's sailors for the "Endsieg". Of course young men were forced to serve in the military and maybe had little chance not to do it (although there are countless examples how people found their way around it) but still every sunken ship, every shot plane, every dead enemy soldier supported a system that created the industrial genocide.

Therefor I find any chorus of praise in this context very difficult if not indefensible.

So on that same note you must condemn the Russians for killing more of their own soldiers than the war did (besides from spreading suffering for many years after the war ended), the Americans for dropping two atomic bombs on civilians (the first one deliberately to see what effects it has), the British for their colonization policies (and subsequent slaughter of the Zulu's and many other nations, besides being the true inventors of the concentration camps) and deliberate bombing of civilian targets out of spite in the end, the Japanese for their cruelty to their PoW's -- shall I go on? Your bias view is very narrow minded (sorry, but there is a lack of tacktful words in my vocabulary) - go and learn about the war first before making such a statement (particularly what lead to the war in the first place). The German soldier never really had a choice in the matter. You might want to read up on the three o'clock call from the GeStaPo, indoctrination, Propaganda, and brain washing (particularly of youngsters in school). Of interest might also be to look into the life of a person under a tyrannic system (hell, America thinks they live in a democracy yet look what is happening there - and do all the Americans that voted for the government want to be associated with what is happening right now (which is nothing compared to the late 30's, but worth bearing in mind) and/or is that all down to blind patriotism (hmm, isn't that just another word for / description of how to see Germans in the third Reich)?

I find it very disturbing that people always assume that the little person on the street knew what was going on in the concentration camps mostly located in the East (not on German soil), took part in the decision making at the top level, had a say (or even a vote) on any matter that went on in the third Reich, and that every German was a Nazi! Quite the opposite was true.

If you can't seperate the honour that went on on the battlefield by the normal soldier (not the SS or other special units) and appreciate the feats that were achieved by a group of incredible brave men then you really shouldn't comment at all (sorry, but that is my opinion). Even the Allied military leaders had nicer things to say about their opponents... Never ever forget that history is written by the victor and that there is more to it than just a simple 'they were evil and that is what they did and so we went in and wiped the floor with their faces' - horrendous things went on on all sides and in all camps that are not talked about...
i know what was going on...
but if you look at the present time i am glad the war is over and land co-orporate.
the germans shared theyr technologie (like the jet engines) and joined the european union.
most firefighters also copyed the german helmets becose they protect more than the other WW2 helmets.
the german super sub (who could have changed the war) is the base of the modern subs.

everyone knows the V-2 rocket right. it was made by a DUTCH professor who's dream came tru in america. he always wanted to lounch a rocket into space. and hell he did.


you could go on about whats good or bad about the war. but also about after the war.

unfortunatly i liked to fight in WW2 (but the dream will never come tru. unless there is a time machine)

[robbo180265]

I like listening to Live Jimi Hendrix too. Line up one of his catastrophic end-of-song distortion feedback loops with the sinking of a ship and you got yourself some mighty powerful visuals.:D

Its like a sorta Vietnam war movie kinda feeling, but with much less of that malaise of senseless brutal human defeatism.:roll:

I hear you. I'ma big Jimi Hendrix fan too. Also like the Stone Roses, Beatles,Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Any thing loud and metal really, love the blues.

All of which I listen to when I'm sinking ships;)

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

I like listening to Live Jimi Hendrix too. Line up one of his catastrophic end-of-song distortion feedback loops with the sinking of a ship and you got yourself some mighty powerful visuals.:D

Its like a sorta Vietnam war movie kinda feeling, but with much less of that malaise of senseless brutal human defeatism.:roll:

I hear you. I'ma big Jimi Hendrix fan too. Also like the Stone Roses, Beatles,Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Any thing loud and metal really, love the blues.

All of which I listen to when I'm sinking ships;)

i prefer the DAS BOOT theme ;)