Crew Management Directions?

[Rafter11]

I can't figure out how to set up my damage control crew. Are there any directions on using this feature of SH IV

Rafter11

[greekfire]

SHIV isn't really crew intensive like SH3 so you can pretty much ignore it except under certain circumstances. Only thing I ever do is when I am getting ready to go into "battle" I will sound the battle stations, rig silent running, and dive to periscope depth. Once I am underwater, I will pull all my watchmen off the bridge (not needed because I am submerged) and put them on damage control duty in case I take a hit. If I get banged up pretty good, then I will start pulling ranking crewmen out of other positions to raise up my damage control ability...long green indicator above compartment. Thats about it.

good luck,

greek

[OddjobXL]

Some people also load up damage control folks from available recruits at port. That's what I tend to do as well. I also sometimes keep my gunners in there but since the damage bug is fixed (people on deck like gunners would keep getting wounded if their guns were damaged and repaired) that hasn't been necessary.

I really can't offer too much advice for how to put together a good damage control team as the documentation for crew skills/specializations/abilities and their effects is nonexistant. I can tell you what I do and it seems to work. Before my first patrol I look at all my compartments for unskilled/unrated characters like recruits and seamen. If there are some with really bad skills I retire them. Next I go look at who's available to hire. I focus primarily on "free" characters like ensigns and recruits.

After filling up compartment slots with the most qualified available for free I'll go talent hunting. Anyone with reasonably good stats, especially in mechanical, gets put into the damage control team as a standby alternate. I try to find at least one ensign with reasonable mechanical and electrical stats as well as a solid leadership score to put in charge. If there's a second with impressive potential I'll stick him in too. After that I stick with seamen. Why as ensigns have better stats by and large? I suspect there must be a downside, undocumented, to having too many officers around and too few enlisted under them. Otherwise I can't see why you'd have so many free ensigns available. They'd cost something and be less numerous.

That might just be my imagination at work trying to think like a game designer, YMMV.

There are two ways to use damage control teams. Hit "Battlestations" and they come active along with every other seaman on the ship - and you'll notice efficiency in every compartment maxes out. However this is very fatiguing and you'll want to make sure you turn it off when you're done. I suspect this helps the damage control people out as well since regular crew stationed in a compartment will do minor repairs on their own. When the danger is over and you've ended battlestations make sure you also manually turn off the damage control team. They'll stay on duty even after the alert has ended. The other way to use damage control, of course, is to select it. Both battlestations and damage control activation orders are under the reports/personnel tab.

Assuming you have damage and the damage control team activated go to the damage reports. You can decide what systems you want repaired and in what order. Bulkheads are very important as are engines and pumps. Once a bulkhead is fixed flooding will usually go down. Not sure if one of the pumps is associated with this or not. You can also select entire systems from the left handed column and it will highlight which individual bits of equipment you need to get them operational again. Just drag and drop from the lists or from the damage control priority list at the bottom of the page. Special warning: even after bulkheads are repaired you may not want to dive - at all - until you're out of danger. They're probably weakened and can collapse with the slightest external pressure and there is no indication of this, that I can see, on the damage control page. Even refitting won't completely fix this - you need to return to port and end your patrol.

But if you want to experiment make sure you're safe and then slowly dive to periscope depth. If that works take it down a little deeper. I'd stay in the 3D internal view because that's the only place you'll get an early warning of things going badly. What warnings? Look for spewing water and flickering electrical lights. At this point try to surface. If that's not working blow ballast, a command under the contol room tab. Increase your speed as well. The faster you are moving the faster you surface or sink because of the flow of water over and under your diving planes (those fin like whiskers sticking out from the nose of your sub).

Good luck. Hope this was helpful.

[Rafter11]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the input. I will put your ideas to work.

Rafter11

[gclarkso]

Some people also load up damage control folks from available recruits at port. That's what I tend to do as well. I also sometimes keep my gunners in there but since the damage bug is fixed (people on deck like gunners would keep getting wounded if their guns were damaged and repaired) that hasn't been necessary.

I really can't offer too much advice for how to put together a good damage control team as the documentation for crew skills/specializations/abilities and their effects is nonexistant. I can tell you what I do and it seems to work. Before my first patrol I look at all my compartments for unskilled/unrated characters like recruits and seamen. If there are some with really bad skills I retire them. Next I go look at who's available to hire. I focus primarily on "free" characters like ensigns and recruits.

After filling up compartment slots with the most qualified available for free I'll go talent hunting. Anyone with reasonably good stats, especially in mechanical, gets put into the damage control team as a standby alternate. I try to find at least one ensign with reasonable mechanical and electrical stats as well as a solid leadership score to put in charge. If there's a second with impressive potential I'll stick him in too. After that I stick with seamen. Why as ensigns have better stats by and large? I suspect there must be a downside, undocumented, to having too many officers around and too few enlisted under them. Otherwise I can't see why you'd have so many free ensigns available. They'd cost something and be less numerous.

That might just be my imagination at work trying to think like a game designer, YMMV.

There are two ways to use damage control teams. Hit "Battlestations" and they come active along with every other seaman on the ship - and you'll notice efficiency in every compartment maxes out. However this is very fatiguing and you'll want to make sure you turn it off when you're done. I suspect this helps the damage control people out as well since regular crew stationed in a compartment will do minor repairs on their own. When the danger is over and you've ended battlestations make sure you also manually turn off the damage control team. They'll stay on duty even after the alert has ended. The other way to use damage control, of course, is to select it. Both battlestations and damage control activation orders are under the reports/personnel tab.

Assuming you have damage and the damage control team activated go to the damage reports. You can decide what systems you want repaired and in what order. Bulkheads are very important as are engines and pumps. Once a bulkhead is fixed flooding will usually go down. Not sure if one of the pumps is associated with this or not. You can also select entire systems from the left handed column and it will highlight which individual bits of equipment you need to get them operational again. Just drag and drop from the lists or from the damage control priority list at the bottom of the page. Special warning: even after bulkheads are repaired you may not want to dive - at all - until you're out of danger. They're probably weakened and can collapse with the slightest external pressure and there is no indication of this, that I can see, on the damage control page. Even refitting won't completely fix this - you need to return to port and end your patrol.

But if you want to experiment make sure you're safe and then slowly dive to periscope depth. If that works take it down a little deeper. I'd stay in the 3D internal view because that's the only place you'll get an early warning of things going badly. What warnings? Look for spewing water and flickering electrical lights. At this point try to surface. If that's not working blow ballast, a command under the contol room tab. Increase your speed as well. The faster you are moving the faster you surface or sink because of the flow of water over and under your diving planes (those fin like whiskers sticking out from the nose of your sub).

Good luck. Hope this was helpful.

Excellent post! Thanks!

[hmatthias]

Filling the Damage control slots is an unrealistic exploit. In real life, there would be no place for these guys to sleep...

[U-Bones]

Filling the Damage control slots is an unrealistic exploit. In real life, there would be no place for these guys to sleep...

Unrealistic exploit ? LOL

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?

[FAdmiral]

I have had systems damaged and then repaired with NO crew in the damage
control slots at all?? Not sure what that implies but maybe its just eye candy
when you see crew inside the sub repairing various items. (have seen them
turning wrenches and plugging leaks)...

JIM

[fredbass]

Sometimes you can force them to sleep sooner than they normally would. But usually I don't bother with it.

[LukeFF]

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?
Beacuse it's NOT a duty station, but rather one that's manned only in an emergency. Do you really think submarines had a 10-man team dedicated to nothing but damage repair? NO! Damage control should work like it does in SH3: you pull ten of your best guys from their regular duty stations and put them to work. It IS an exploit in its current form here in SH4.

[U-Bones]

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?
Beacuse it's NOT a duty station, but rather one that's manned only in an emergency. Do you really think submarines had a 10-man team dedicated to nothing but damage repair? NO! Damage control should work like it does in SH3: you pull ten of your best guys from their regular duty stations and put them to work. It IS an exploit in its current form here in SH4.

Ok, duty assignment... station was a bad choice of words, even if I made it clear I was not talking about a location. And you are equally wrong in your inplication that it is a station that is physically "manned". DC goes where the damage is, when there is damage.

I understand that it upsets some that they do nothing else, but remember the whole thing is a very simple virtualization of how jobs get done. It's not like every task on the sub is accounted for here or that it takes exactly so many people to keep that diesel humming...

If it makes you feel better, I leave 6 of my torp room slots empty and pull folks off DC duty to reload fish. I understand what you are saying, but getting the job done here does not mirror reality and I dont get hung up on it. Its more important to have the DC crew assigned for fast reaction than the torpedo room full. I will lose the 30 seconds on reloads, but 30 seconds on DC can be a disaster. Which would a captain give priority to ? Would the DC party balk at leaving their "day jobs" when there is damage ?

This is a GAME issue that you play through. The SIM issue is that the sim falls short of reality with duty assignments, why should I let that impose stupid priorities on my game decisions ?

DC is high priority. Why would I roleplay not assigning anyone to DC and placing my ship and crew in mortal danger ? Essientially that is what you do if you declare this an exploit.

So accept and mitigate the imposed limitations or call it an exploit as it suits you, but this really makes me laugh.

[Torpex752]

Subs then and now had a "Watch, Quarters and Station Bill" It assigned every person by name or billit a duty to perform during certain events Like battle stations Surface, Battle stations Submerged Torpedo Attack, Sea and Anchor detail, etc...

So YES having an assigned DCparty is not an exploit but rather a simple assignment.

Frank
:cool:

[LukeFF]

U-Bones, I accept and understand that damage control is an essential part of the game that needs to be paid attention. My whole grief is that, in it's current form, the damage control team does nothing else on the boat. I can accept that positions like the radio operator, cooks, medical, etc., are abstracted in the background. That's fine. What I want is a simple system back like we had in SH3: when you have damage, your best men from among the crew (selected by the player before the patrol) are sent to repair damage when the damage control team is activated. Shoot, I think it'd be even better if, for instance, off-duty crew would fill in slots on the DC team, providing a quick-reaction force, if you will. When battlestations is called, they go back to their regularly assigned station. Activate the damage control team, and your pre-selected men for DC go to this station.

I just think there would be so much more flexibility with this game if crew management was implemented in a more realistic manner, instead of putting forth the image that there were dedicated damage control parties aboard every ship. Damage control is one of the key elements all new recruits learn in basic training, and SH4 should reflect that.

Actually, I do like your idea of pulling guys off the torpedo stations and putting them into the damage control slots. It's a realistic way of dealing with realistic problems. Unfortunately it's just not automated at this time.

[U-Bones]

Yeah, it could be better, but you work with what you have. It is still miles better than SH3. I weigh anchor with 6 empty torp slots and nobody in gun slots. I may or may not have DC filled completely, and I use them for reloads or gun stations as needed.

[Fleet Snipe]

Damage Control is an assigned duty during General Quarters only. Men assigned to DC parties are from the normal working divisions from the Engineering Department which includes A division, M division, B division, E division and R divisions.

Each individual within these divisions has a normal "day" job depending on their rating and the responsibilities of that division (always fixed). Again, they become part of a DC party ONLY during GQ. The deck ratings would handle things like the guns, lookouts, bridge functions (helmsman, engine order telegraph), ammunition handling, etc., during GQ. They would not be part of a DC party.

I've not served aboard submarines, and believe there is more cross training than the surface fleet, but ratings are ratings and division are divisions all with specific functions to be served during a normal non-combat watch and during General Quarters.

Actually, speaking of watches and such, there are two basic functions served by every sailor. One is his normal day job which starts at 8:00 and ends at 16:30 (hours as I recall from many years ago). A normal day job might be anything from airconditioning maintenance to boat maintenance to deck ape duties like painting and general ship maintenance.

Each sailor also has watches based on sections. These watches have nothing to do with a day job though there is some relation based on the responsibility of the division and the ratings within that division.

Typically, there are two 4-hour watches to be served during a 24 hour period plus the normal working day. At least one watch will fall - in whole or in part - in the normal work day except on Sunday's which is a day off except for watches.

Maybe you Richover boys can shed more light on how the pig boats are run. I can't image it is all that different than the surface fleet.

Anyway, with that said - and though it's not realistic - I just fill up my DC party with the best guys I can afford to get before leaving on patrol. That seems to work okay (I guess :up: ).

Don't know if this means anything to anybody...and sorry for all the rambling as I try to recall details from my Navy days - which I really didn't care for anyway (computer simulations are much more fun) :D

[SteamWake]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=repair+team (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109849&highlight=repair+team)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=repair+team (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119870&highlight=repair+team)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=repair+team (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118316&highlight=repair+team)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=repair+team (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116212&highlight=repair+team)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=repair+team (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112718&highlight=repair+team)

[Fearless]

If damage is repaired whether Crew is sitting in that DC slot or not than why have it there in the first place.

[Captain Scribb]

Crew on duty in a compartment with damaged material can work on minor repairs, but by having a dedicated damage control team things will be repaired much more quickly, and theoretically a little more thoroughly than just what the crew there could do in their spare time between other duties.

[switch.dota]

I don't have a dedicated repair crew. Instead all my watchmen are also highly skilled mechanical/electrics specialists. I rearely need (fast) repairs while not underwater and I don't need watchmen underwater.

[capt_frank]

My Damage Control team consists solely of new recruit Ensigns who boarded at port. We'll see what they can do without any swabbies to boss around...

I also have Ensigns or above in every lead slot in every compartment and/or station.

I think the Officer's Mess will need a renovation.

[Frederf]

According to that one "Sub manual" I read a realistic crew was in the 68-70 men category with X and Y numbers of officers and crew. Unfortunately it's hard to have your men "get good" without them being Grand General Admiral of the Air Force. If anyone has a good source on the period disposition of the crew I would be most appreciative.

It would seem the best option for DC crew would be to have them be "linked" in the submarine roster as belonging to the DC crew but they would stay in their normal position until the DC button was activated then they would be pulled out for the duration for their extra duty and sent back once done. Of course this is beyond modding possibility, but it's my feeling on how the system should work. You couldn't assign someone as being in the DC crew as a fulltime job but you could mark them as having that extra duty knowing you'd lose their primary functionality when they got "the call." But I digress.

[FIREWALL]

Seems like this question would be best answered by one of the UBI Devs that visit here occaisonally.:D

[LukeFF]

It would seem the best option for DC crew would be to have them be "linked" in the submarine roster as belonging to the DC crew but they would stay in their normal position until the DC button was activated then they would be pulled out for the duration for their extra duty and sent back once done. Of course this is beyond modding possibility, but it's my feeling on how the system should work. You couldn't assign someone as being in the DC crew as a fulltime job but you could mark them as having that extra duty knowing you'd lose their primary functionality when they got "the call." But I digress.

That's what I've wanted since the game was released. It really is a head-scratcher why the devs programmed it this way, since SH3 doesn't have a dedicated damage control crew, i.e., you have to pull them out of their regular compartments.

That and why the limits for officers, petty officers and sailors was eliminated is something I'll never understand.

[p3cewo]

I was surprised to find, after being an airdale in the USN for pratically my whole life, that the only thing that limited crew size on the German U-boat I road a few years back was the number of racks. In that situation, the cook and CO were the only ones to have thier own rack. The rest of the crew hot racked 4 on 4 off cycles for 20 hours out of the day, and 2/2 for the last 4. If you weren't on duty, you were in the rack.

With that said, I merely look at the open DC slots in crew management for these Uboats as "available racks" on the boat. And since most squadrons/units I was ever attached to had "non combat essential" personnel aboard to perform duties such as 1st LT, admin, medical, mess cranking etc, I "assume" the same could be said for these era boats. These folks had to have racks, even if they were "hot".

So in my own little mind, my DC racks are filled with those peple. And since I hand pick my crew, RHIP, only people with the highest skills in mechanical and electrical earn 'em ;) After all, we are at WAR!! :up:

Could it be implemented better? Probably.. But an "expoit"?? Not IMHO. In fact, working as intended as it is now, I look at it as poor planning on my part if I go out on patrol NOT filling all available space (racks) aboard with the most highly qualified people I can find.

[LukeFF]

With that said, I merely look at the open DC slots in crew management for these Uboats as "available racks" on the boat. And since most squadrons/units I was ever attached to had "non combat essential" personnel aboard to perform duties such as 1st LT, admin, medical, mess cranking etc, I "assume" the same could be said for these era boats. These folks had to have racks, even if they were "hot".
That's exactly how I have my Realistic Crew Configs mod set up. I have ~5 slots filled with "non combat" personnel - the Pharmacists Mate, the cooks, stewards, and yeoman. It works out pretty well - when I need a fully-crewed DC team I just move a couple of guys from the torpedo rooms, since their mechanical skills are all pretty high.