Contact vs. Magnetic: reversed or not?

[joea]

In the title, are they really reversed or not??? Read contradictory statements about it.

[SteamWake]

Hrm... uhh... what ?

[Strikor]

As an abuser of the external camera, I can say yes, they seem to be. I've seen plenty of fish explode under the keel on conact but they kept swimming straight on by on influence.

[Egan]

LOl, likewise I had a pair of Contact Influence detonate under the keel in a mission last night.

I suppose success with mags is dependant on what year it is and whether you have 'realistic' duds on. They were pretty bad until mid '43 at the earliest.

[daft]

Don't know, but I do know the game still resets the knob to Contact Influence when set to Contact. Very annoying.

[joea]

Don't know, but I do know the game still resets the knob to Contact Influence when set to Contact. Very annoying.

Maybe that's why people think it's reversed. I agree why hasn't it been fixed??

[hachiman]

I'd like to know this too?
I'm firing magnetics 1m or less under keels and no detonation.:down:

[Steeltrap]

My experience, through using the external cam to follow torps, is that they ARE reversed i.e. "contact" actually includes mag influence, while "contact + influence" is only contact.

[Tobowsi]

My experience is that they're not reversed and working fine.

Once I found some appropriate depths to use (the drafts listed in the recognition manual are worthless, IMO), I've had no problems with keel shots.

[NefariousKoel]

I'm of the thinking that both settings use magnetic. I've had torpedoes set to contact only and had them blow up prematurely (which I believe to have been a problem with mags) and I've also had Contact/Influence do the same.

Strange thing.. I haven't been getting holes blasted in the sides lately when I have them set to Contact even though the target is listing and dead in the water. Gonna have to check on the dual setting too.

[Spectre-63]

My experience is that they're not reversed and working fine.

Once I found some appropriate depths to use (the drafts listed in the recognition manual are worthless, IMO), I've had no problems with keel shots.

How did you find said "appropriate depths"? Could you perhaps share these depths?

[-Pv-]

Not reversed. The influence mode is ALSO contact. Wave action near the target may cause the camera to decieve you into thinking there was one kind of detonation when there was another. Torps that *appear" to dip under the target will do so when a wave lifts the target near the contact point. I've really not seeing any big difference between SH3 and 4 when it comes to how torps behave in the camera near the target. That is- I'm getting expected results.
-Pv-

[-Pv-]

From the patch 1.2 SH3 manual:

"Torpedo Runing Depth
This should be set in close relation to the desired detonation method (see below). For magnetic
detonations, the torpedo should ideally pass directly under the target’s keel. In this case, take
the Draft entry in the Recognition Manual and add 3 to 5 feet. Keep in mind that large waves may
cause a ship’s draft to vary quite a bit, and too great a distance may lead to the detonator not
sensing the ship’s magnetic field.
When using an impact detonator, the torpedo should be set to hit the target under the protective
armored belt. In the absence of specific information about your target’s protection, the following
settings should be used:
Target Type Depth
Battleships 20 feet
Heavy Cruisers, Carriers, Large Merchants 12 feet
Light Cruisers, Small Merchants, Submarines 10 feet
Destroyers 6 feet
Torpedo Detonation Method
Torpedoes fielded by the U.S. submarine force at the start of its involvement in World War II used
combined detonators that could be triggered by either frontal impact with a solid object or sensing
the magnetic field of a ship above it.
As in real life, your torpedo detonators will have two possible settings:
Contact Only and Magnetic Influence + Contact. When detonation is
achieved under the ship’s keel, the entire force of the explosion is
vented inside the target, literally crippling it. Even a battleship may be
sunk with a single such hit. But magnetic detonations also have
disadvantages, the main one being their poor reliability, manifested in
premature detonations. Read the “Torpedo Armament” section for
further information."

-Pv-

[Jungman]

I tested dozens of those torp shot Contact or Magnetic setting.

There is no difference. They both miss the same under the hull , or both hit the same just at the hull limit.

NO Difference as far as I can tell.:-? I had the DUD setting OFF. That may make a difference in results people get.

Mogami Heavy Cruiser. 24 feet deep. 27 feet will miss. That is quite a deep Draft compared to print manual.

[Tobowsi]

How did you find said "appropriate depths"? Could you perhaps share these depths?

Just trial and error. I've had pretty good luck with keel shots when using 8 for destroyers, 16 for heavy cruisers, and 24 for battleships. I seem to remember using 14 for the Agano light cruisers and somewhere around 24 for the Shokaku carriers, but I didn't write those numbers down. Some other depths I use are 10 for huge European liners, 14 for large old passenger carriers, and 22 for large modern tankers. I'd have to verify the 10 for the huge Euro liner is a keel shot because I aim for the front stack to get secondary explosions, but the 14 for the passenger carrier is definitely a keel shot because I aim for the aft mast and the ship usually sinks by the stern.

[sqk7744]

Don't know, but I do know the game still resets the knob to Contact Influence when set to Contact. Very annoying.

Ok, I'll throw my hat in the ring here too...

Did an entire patrol with Contact+Influence set and most of those puppies went right under the keel and kept going (had the depth right for a back-breaker, etc etc)

Will try flipping the switch to contact only and see how that goes on my current patrol.

[jhelix70]

I tested this too and it seemed to make no difference, both settings allowed magnetic detonation under the hull.

I did notice that you had to be pretty close to the bottom of the ship, a few feet or less for it to work. I think that has been changed since SH3.

[akdavis]

I'm changing my mind on this, I think. I'm thinking that what appears to be a detonation under the hull is actually the hull's "hit box" being a bit larger than the 3D dimensions of the ship.

Also, does the magnetic detonator use the 3D model or the ships dimensions in the sim to determine depth below keel. If we use the Mogami as an example, the listed depth of its keel is 14.5 ft., but you have to run the torpedos at 25 ft. to clear the hull itself. If the magnetic detonator is using 14.5 ft., then that is over 10 ft. of separation, which might be deep enough to cause it the influence detonator to fail.

[sqk7744]

I'm changing my mind on this, I think. I'm thinking that what appears to be a detonation under the hull is actually the hull's "hit box" being a bit larger than the 3D dimensions of the ship.

Also, does the magnetic detonator use the 3D model or the ships dimensions in the sim to determine depth below keel. If we use the Mogami as an example, the listed depth of its keel is 14.5 ft., but you have to run the torpedos at 25 ft. to clear the hull itself. If the magnetic detonator is using 14.5 ft., then that is over 10 ft. of separation, which might be deep enough to cause it the influence detonator to fail.

---
Good point - will try a few on this patrol.