Textures flickering on distant object

[akdavis]

EDIT: please note that with further testing, distance (other than very close) and viewing through optics is not really a factor. In the case of the screenshot below, the factor was whether or not the ship had been damaged.

This is especially (perhaps exclusively) a problem with ships, particularly when view at a distance through optics. Certain areas of the ships have areas of black flickering across them. You can see a bit of this black flickering/flashing in the screen below, but of course it does not really convey the effect in a still image.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1990/flashtexturetq8.jpg

I'm pretty sure this is not a problem new to 1.2. I cannot find a relation to any in-game settings. Any ideas if a card setting might be causing this.

I have a pair of 6800 Ultras with latest drivers (although I am running the game on a single GPU as I lose FPS with SLI). 1280x960 w/ 2X AA

[Cakewalk]

I have a similar problem (GeForce 7900 GS, 4X AA, 8X AF, 1400x900). Its quite noticeable when looking at ships in the museum, also.

[akdavis]

Yeah, museum was the first place I noticed it after I installed the game.

[Chock]

Sounds like an issue with mipmapping to me - mipmapping being the technique used to scale textures in the distance to stop this kind of thing going on - you may be able to find something in your video card driver application to alter how this is (or possibly isn't) being applied.

[akdavis]

Well, here's something interesting. I found the most obvious mipmapping setting on my card and changed it and then went back to the same scenario I saw the artifacts in above and it seemed gone...until I was messing around later and fired my deck gun at the ship and hit her once. All of sudden the flashing black areas were back along the whole length of the ship. Went to graphics options and slid the "3D damage" slider all the way to the left. The flashing areas went away again.

So, any damage seems to cause this to appear. However, even with the slider all the way to the left, certain areas of ships still exhibit these artifacts until you zoom all the way in (when viewing them in the museum). One of the most obvious areas is elevators on carriers, e.g. Bogue class fore and aft elevator:
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/6421/flashtexture2bw9.jpg

The life rafts hanging vertically along the sides of ships are also prime suspects, albeit in a much smaller form.

[akdavis]

Hmm, this has been really bugging me..

So I was playing around with graphic settings etc, tried different drivers, mipmapping levels etc. I found only one fix: it was unchecking ship normal maps in the options (sliding the damage slider down did not remove it for me). Unchecking normal maps completely removes the flickering black textures, yet it did not seem to change the ships textures at all, they look identical with it checked or unchecked.. which is weird... they still look great!! I toggled the option while looking at the side of a ship and unlike all the other graphics options, toggling normal maps seemed to have no effect, post effect, caustic effects, glare etc can all be observed real-time when you toggle...

Maybe the normal maps are activated twice causing the flickering - maybe they are not implemented properly at all. This type of flickering I have seen in other games and was a reasult of two textures laid over each other.

Anyway I have unchecked it, and I see no loss whatsoever in image quality of ship textures.. but mysteriously all the flickering goes away.. only thing I need to check is damage..

I thought I had already checked this, but I double checked to make sure. Checking the Bogue's elevators in the museums shows that the huge areas of flickering are still there. Perhaps it is ameliorated to some degree for the small areas seen from the side of many ships, but the problem is definitely still there. I also inflicted damage on the two merchants in the navigation training mission and the random areas of flickering black immediately reappeared, as well.

Areas where there are horizontal lines that take on an angle as the ship rolls also have a "flickering" effect that I believe is unrelated. Perhaps the normal maps effect that, or perhaps this is improvement is dependent on card/drivers?

Anyways, I tested a bit more and noticed a few more things. First, the "ship damage" has three settings: right, middle and left. All the way to the right and a "3D" hole and the flickering appears after damaging the ship (although some hits in certain areas seem not to cause the flickering). With the slider in the middle, no 3D damage or any other change occurs, but the flickering is still there. With the slider to the left, there is no 3D or 2D damage and no flickering. This suggests to me that some sort of damage texture is supposed to be applied, but instead all I see is this random flickering on large areas of the ship, often on parts not associated with the damage just inflicted.

The only other way to make the flickering disappear (whether that which is always there or that which appears after damage) is to view the ship from very close range.

edit: I also tried to exit the sim and restart after making the change in the options just in case it didn't take immediate effect, but this made no difference.

[Jace11]

I deleted my post cause when I restested it, it reappeared... sorry to PM for nothing..

I thought I'd found a fix but hadn't.

It isn't just the damage thing though, though it does reduce it on some ships, but not others. Look at the Yamato as an example in the Samar mission.

Anyway, I have tried everything I can think of...

Mipmapping levels,
AA
AF
I have diabled all the options in the graphics panel and it still occurs.
I have tried removing wakes
I have tried rescaling textures in T01 and T01_lr as well as corresponding normal maps.
I have editied the dat files to change the MediumLOD and LowLOD ranges.


NOTHING FIXES IT!!!

I feel it is either a LOD / texture missmatch, an interaction with sea effects or something similar


We know: It occurs with range (disappears zoomed in)
Not a graphic option
Damage = 0 does reduce it on some ships
Its not a normal map, cause I removed the normal maps from the yamato and although the ship looked a bit weird (light coloured) the warping was still there.

I am losing patience with this...

Was it present in 1.0 or 1.1 versions of the game?

[Beery]

I have this problem too. I have a Radeon X1600 so it seems to happen with both GEForce and Radeon cards.

[sqk7744]

Me too, are you Gents using nHancer?

twin GeForce 9700GTX SLI's.

Very noticeable on Sub Tenders.

[RocketDog]

Happens with my X1950XTX (Cat 7.3 drivers). I thought it might be z-buffer problems?

Cheers,

RD.

[Bort]

twin GeForce 9700GTX SLI's.

You're really far ahead of the game. :lol:

[Fish40]

I've got it also useing an ATI X1650pro with Cat7.3's. As stated by the thread starter, as soon as ships take damage, the texture flickering takes place. I'm glad I'm not alone on this one. Definite immersion killer!

For the record, my 3D damage slider is mid-way. At a torpedo impact, sometimes the damage effect appears, sometimes not. But immediately on impact, the texture flickering manifests itself. I first thought it was a memory, or rather lack of memory problem. I have only 1gig, and the game plays pretty well at that.

[sqk7744]

twin GeForce 9700GTX SLI's.
You're really far ahead of the game. :lol:

Thanks been tinkering with those and nHancer on a overclocked Asus board.

There are a few SLI posts on nHancer profiles. We should all get pretty close on that eye candy vs. non-slideshow curve.

cheers :arrgh!:

[Stary Wuj]

The same here, Geforce 7800 GTX with newest drivers.
Flickering on many elements of ships, especially bright elements,
very frustrating, I hope DEVS can do something.
I tried many graphic settings without solution.

Definite immersion killer!

Best Regards

Stary Wuj

[kakemann]

Me too, are you Gents using nHancer?

twin GeForce 9700GTX SLI's.

Very noticeable on Sub Tenders.
Ohh my! what's your FPS?

Tell us, tell us! :rock:

Flickering here as well

[Lt. Staumeier]

twin GeForce 9700GTX SLI's.
You're really far ahead of the game. :lol:

Thanks been tinkering with those and nHancer on a overclocked Asus board.

There are a few SLI posts on nHancer profiles. We should all get pretty close on that eye candy vs. non-slideshow curve.

cheers :arrgh!:


Why do I get the feeling you were meaning to type 2x7900 and not 2x9700? ;)

[Stary Wuj]

Any idea how to remove flickering ?
Some graphic card options, in game options or something ?

Very frustrating bug for me......

Best Regards

Stary Wuj

[Stary Wuj]

I see flickering all this time, no need to damage ships :-)
newest drivers for 7800 GTX, :damn:

Stary Wuj

[MONOLITH]

I have the flickering too.

Radeon X1950 Pro. Latest driver.

I even get it on the ocean surface..a quick flash like a lightning reflection would look like.

I also get it on the outlines of all the clouds across the sky at once, a white flash, again, like lightning would do.

I get it on the masts of freighters.

I did NOT have this with 1.1.

It looks to me to be similar behavior as when a card is overheating, but too many people are having it....

[Stary Wuj]

I did NOT have this with 1.1.....

Strange.

Stary Wuj

[Anvart]

Well, here's something interesting. I found the most obvious mipmapping setting on my card and changed it and then went back to the same scenario I saw the artifacts in above and it seemed gone...until I was messing around later and fired my deck gun at the ship and hit her once. All of sudden the flashing black areas were back along the whole length of the ship. Went to graphics options and slid the "3D damage" slider all the way to the left. The flashing areas went away again.

So, any damage seems to cause this to appear. However, even with the slider all the way to the left, certain areas of ships still exhibit these artifacts until you zoom all the way in (when viewing them in the museum). One of the most obvious areas is elevators on carriers, e.g. Bogue class fore and aft elevator:
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/6421/flashtexture2bw9.jpg

The life rafts hanging vertically along the sides of ships are also prime suspects, albeit in a much smaller form.
Yes, you have approached to the reason very close ...
When I did lit ships (SH3), i had the same problem, when crack models did not coincide absolutely precisely with the basic model ...
I think it's not videocard bug ...

[MONOLITH]

It looks to me to be similar behavior as when a card is overheating, but too many people are having it....

*next day*

Some may disagree, but I just have to report what I am actually finding...

I'm only getting these flickerings (artifacting?) after my vid card crosses the 77' Celcius threshhold. Not before.

That would indicate overheating.

All my in-game graphics settings are on max, at 1680 x 1050. If I set my anti-aliasing to 4x with adaptive AA, my cards temp will cross beyond 77C. Then I get the flickerings.

If I drop my AA down to 2 x with 'performance mode adaptive AA', there's less strain on the card, and it never crosses 74 to 75C. No flickering then.



Now, the same exact thing I'm seeing may not be what you guys are seeing, there may be two completely different issues here, but I'm just adding to the conversation what I know is happening on my end.

It would be good if you guys could say if you see the flickerings immediately when the game starts, or not until you are 5 to 10 minutes into it. (that would mean heat buildup in the card over time).

Also, do you see any texture flickering while inside the sub views (command room, etc) where the graphics load is low, or do you only see it on the exterior ocean views (where graphics load is high).

Thanks.

[Zepheron]

Ship flicker and water flashes for me at start up. Highest I've seen my card get
to temp wise is 62' c. and that's playing ArmA Combat Operations with settings at very high.

P4 3.2
2gig corsair dual
ATI X1950 pro 512

[Stary Wuj]

From the start too, ships flickering (many parts of the ships), water looks good.
GeForce 7800 GTX, newest DirectX and drivers, almost clean WinXP.

Stary Wuj

[MONOLITH]

After playing awhile longer, I'll add that I am in fact having two seperate issues.

My card does heat up a bit (X1950Pro..known for heating issues), and that causes me the "lightning flashes" on the ocean and clouds...

I also get the black flickering on the distant ships, and that's right from the start up.

I'm thinking driver version issue, but this is on both Nvidia and ATI, yes?

[Stary Wuj]

Yes, and with different drivers......:shifty:

Stary Wuj

[akdavis]

It looks to me to be similar behavior as when a card is overheating, but too many people are having it....

*next day*

Some may disagree, but I just have to report what I am actually finding...

I'm only getting these flickerings (artifacting?) after my vid card crosses the 77' Celcius threshhold. Not before.

That would indicate overheating.

All my in-game graphics settings are on max, at 1680 x 1050. If I set my anti-aliasing to 4x with adaptive AA, my cards temp will cross beyond 77C. Then I get the flickerings.

If I drop my AA down to 2 x with 'performance mode adaptive AA', there's less strain on the card, and it never crosses 74 to 75C. No flickering then.



Now, the same exact thing I'm seeing may not be what you guys are seeing, there may be two completely different issues here, but I'm just adding to the conversation what I know is happening on my end.

It would be good if you guys could say if you see the flickerings immediately when the game starts, or not until you are 5 to 10 minutes into it. (that would mean heat buildup in the card over time).

Also, do you see any texture flickering while inside the sub views (command room, etc) where the graphics load is low, or do you only see it on the exterior ocean views (where graphics load is high).

Thanks.

I was concerned about this as well, even though it didn't seem likely since the flickering was only on very specific parts of ships, and since I could control it in many circumstances by moving the damage graphics slider. Anyways, I totally opened and cleaned out my case, bringing the running temp of the card down over 10 deg. C. No changes whatsoever. The same flickering is still there and it is there from the moment the sim loads.

[Stary Wuj]

Yes, I see the flickerings immediately when the game starts.
And NO flickering in the sub, only distant ships.

Best Regards

Stary Wuj

[Stary Wuj]

Hey NVIDIA users, after long time new (6.xx, 7.xx) drivers are available,
version 94.24, I will test it, but now at work.

Any "flickering" fixes ???

Best Regards

Stary Wuj

[Stary Wuj]

Hmmm, any info about ?
Someone have solution for this ?

Stary Wuj

[Jace11]

New idea!!

Do you get flickering on the ships imported from SH3?? The ones that lack the new "internal" damage model...??

Can anyone test this?

Otherwise I will give me half an hour to setup a new ship..

[starvingartist507]

Geforce 7800 GT: noticed the flickering AFTER I updated my drivers to the then-beta ones. It increased my FPS marginally, but I began noticiing the flickering. I think it might have something to do with a broken transparancy setting, since it only happens (for me) in places that I should be seeing through something. IE. Water running over rails flickers white instead of showing both water and ship texture, ship elavators flicker black (they should be open areas, after all). In reference to overheating, my vid card never goes above 60 deg C.