British drop Holocaust lessons from history class to avoid offending Muslims.

[TteFAboB]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445979&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow

Teachers are voluntarily (unless it's an order from above) dropping classes about the Holocaust because they fear upsetting the Muslim pupils. Crusades are also being forgotten because apparently there's risk of contradicting what may have been preached at the nearest Mosque.

Fantastic. This is exactly the society that awaits us. Discussion? We won't ever reach that point! What discussion? We're in the consensus world. We're all in agreement. Always been, always will be. When we find a contradiction or opposition, we simply cut on one end or the other et voila, pretend that the problem never existed. As long as we fool ourselves and continue to believe in this lie with all our strength it's all good.

This is a great new history methodology: don't make minority alien students adapt to your history, adapt your history to suit their demands instead. Should work really well for math.

Now I don't blame the teachers as long as they're acting on their own. I'd be afraid of getting London on fire aswell. Without the backing of the higher ups and the assurance of my safety, I wouldn't teach factual history either. I'd demand at least one full-time Bobby body-guard. Of course, this isn't recyprocal. We don't have the opposite happening in the Muslim world. Maybe we're learning how to teach the Holocaust from them.

I'm neither with the holocophobes or the teachers though untill I can confirm that the history books you Brits use aren't another page of Bizzaro world themselves.

EDIT: Apparently the title is misleading. Sheesh, glad we don't read a book by its cover! Trying a new title.

EDIT2 : Nevermind, I can't edit the title.

[AG124]

:nope: Do muslims hate Jews so much that they don't even want to hear about how they suffered through one of the worst periods in human history? It's not as if they were responsible, although I'm sure there are some (Ahmadinejad maybe?) who would like to see the Holocaust repeated.:nope:

I read a story on CBC's website earlier this year; apparently, muslims in Ontario are outraged that teachers are informing Canadian students that there are militants in the Middle East and that muslim terrorists were responsible for 9/11. Such lies.:dead: Don't worry though - I'm sure some school board in the area has come up with a PC solution that will make 'everyone' happy.:roll:

[baggygreen]

There's a lot of things that have been done by every civilisation which members regret.

Whats next - the Egyptians complaining because it reflects badly on them that the pyramids were built by forced labour? The chinese complaining about people propagating the 'claim' that they invented gunpowder, cos it led to guns??

It happened. Altering 'history' is daft. when all the evidence points to one conclusion, even if there are proven facts surrounding it, it is beyond stupidity to try and pander to a vocal, narrow-minded minority who complain about anything and everything.

frankly, if a few select people are going to complain about stuff like that, i suggest forcing them on a tour of some of those nastier places through poland and germany..

[Tchocky]

Gah, this is backwards. Talk about holding up the species.
I was taught some dodgy history, but once I challenged our textbook, the teacher agreed with me and we got a couple of good classes out of it. It wasnt malicious, just some over-simplifications and the like. Nothing like this BS

[SUBMAN1]

Re-writing history books again I see. Nice. This one is bad though because it is done under the PC pretext.

Last one I heard is that the Japanese are re-writing the history books on WWII to sanitize it of any Japanese wrong doing. Seems history may yet elude us in the future!

Does anyone draw any similarities between this and what the Nazi's did in trying to burn all their books? Same thing is happening. One world government may be in our future since no one will know any better since no one will know what happened in the past!

Scary

-S

[CCIP]

False alarm, let it rest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6563429.stm

[Sagan]

There is a simple solution for this.

State over Church. Even Henry VIII knew that.

[TteFAboB]

False alarm, let it rest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6563429.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6563429.stm[/quote)



The false suggestion is that the action has been taken by the government to avoid offending Muslim communities.
That's not the suggestion of my link.



The source of the rumour may be a report that some history teachers were uncomfortable with sensitive subjects.

The report that may have given rise to the alarm was commissioned by England's Department for Education and Skills from the Historical Association, which promotes the study and teaching of history.

It said: "Teachers and schools avoid emotive and controversial history for a variety of reasons, some of which are well-intentioned.

"Staff may wish to avoid causing offence or appearing insensitive to individuals or groups in their classes.

"In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship."

The report gave as an example a history department in "a northern city" which "recently avoided selecting the Holocaust as a topic for GCSE coursework for fear of confronting anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils".


So the report exists. And as I've suggested, teachers are afraid, or in euphemism mode, "unwilling", to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship. In other words, teachers submit to pupils. Better that they do challenge them unwillingly than not at all. Otherwise we should call England's Department for Education and let them know that some teachers are not enforcing the compulsory curriculum.

I see two confusions. The first is the conflict with the policy to regard Holocaust denial as a crime. Apparently there are priviledged classes that are immune to that. The second is multiculturalism. It wasn't in the plan to make people co-exist together by making one bunch afraid of the other bunch.

Question: if you aren't supposed to learn anything in history classes as long as you come home (or from the community, or from the place of worship) steeped in highly contentious or charged versions of history, why not abolish history lessons for those who meet this criteria? It seems these pupils already know everything they need to know, why should they be forced to waste time at history lessons? Give them an extended lunch-break.

***
EDIT: I have found the famous report of the Historical Association. It has 48 pages. http://www.dfes.gov.uk/research/data/uploadfiles/RW100.pdf. I don't have time to read this little booklet but for history's sake, here's our historical document. The relevant citation is at page 15 and Acrobat's search engine give me 58 results for "Holocaust".

There's an announcement of that report here (http://www.history.org.uk/pdfs/Teach%203-19.doc) from which I extract the following quote: "Such areas of study include the Transatlantic Slave Trade, the Holocaust and aspects of Islamic history. These areas are sometimes avoided by teachers to steer away from controversy in the classroom.". At least the Brits are looking at the issue.

[DeePsix501]

Winston Churchill once said, "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."

I can only hope that schools heed his words.

[P_Funk]

Winston Churchill once said, "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." Wasn't that George Santayana?

And the true, and so disgustingly misquoted, line is "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[DeePsix501]

Its right here: http://en.thinkexist.com/search/searchquotation.asp?search=history+repeat+doomed

And Santayana did say somthing similiar. So we are both right.

[baggygreen]

either way - you forget what has happened in history, and you lose the lessons so tough to learn.

Example - you forget how devastating nukes really are, and they get used again. oops:down:

[Letum]

I don't believe this for a second!

If someone did say something along these lines then that just shows that there are irrisponsable idiots in the world, and that's nothing new!

[HunterICX]

I don't belive this for a second!

Me thinks its a bit fishy,

why are they so worried about offending the muslims about a lesson ''Holocaust'' in history class

muslim this muslim that,

ok now, have the jews anything to say about this Holocaust? isnt the Governement afraid that they offend them with it?

really its confusing

[Skybird]

There is a simple solution for this.

State over Church. Even Henry VIII knew that.

I think the trend with Europe and Islam, and maybe America and fundamental Christians as well, is exactly the other way around.

Frus-tra-ting.

I have no family. Maybe 20 or 30 more years for me, then leaving the stage and hopefully never need to come back for another life. I hope there is more intelligent lifeforms somewhere in this universe for reincarnation... :)

[Letum]

There is a simple solution for this.

State over Church. Even Henry VIII knew that.
I think the trend with Europe and Islam, and maybe America and fundamental Christians as well, is exactly the other way around.


How do you mean?
From my limited and humble view on the subject the European trend seams to be becoming more secular, especially in relation to Islam as people become more sensitive to non-secularism.
America, of course continues to be politically dominated by Christian extremists!

[P_Funk]

Its right here: http://en.thinkexist.com/search/searchquotation.asp?search=history+repeat+doomed

And Santayana did say somthing similiar. So we are both right. Just to split hairs, Santayana WAS the original. Since him its been appropriated willy nilly and misquoted. Obviously it isn't a surprise that Churchill would have picked up on it. Smart bloody fellow.

I just think its funny that one of the most abused quotes in history has forgotten its author.:roll:

[August]

Its right here: http://en.thinkexist.com/search/searchquotation.asp?search=history+repeat+doomed

And Santayana did say somthing similiar. So we are both right. Just to split hairs, Santayana WAS the original. Since him its been appropriated willy nilly and misquoted. Obviously it isn't a surprise that Churchill would have picked up on it. Smart bloody fellow.

I just think its funny that one of the most abused quotes in history has forgotten its author.:roll:

I knew it was Santayana but I thought it was the Mexican emperor. :oops:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Great. Now the PC Pussies are crapping all over history. So by insulting Jewish people by ignoring an important part of their history, we'll be ay-okay with the Muslims, because when those select few whine and complain, we bawl over like a sack of s***. I'm sick of it.



Sorry about that.

[Heibges]

It seems this revisionism is everywhere.

Take Saving Private Ryan for instance.

If you didn't know better, you might think the US Army was non-segregated in WWII, if you thought Vin Diesel was playing a character of mixed decent.

Also, you might think it was easy to be Jewish in the US Army in WWII.

Norman Mailer's "Naked and the Dead", and even Neil Simon's 'Biloxi Blues" portray a much more realistic picture of the realities of American Society in the 40's. And my father of course.

[STEED]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6563429.stm


In fact the government has reaffirmed that in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is compulsory, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.


As far as I am aware it is not a compulsory subject, typical useless government not doing there home work. I have checked this with a friend of mine who is a teacher and they said the subject is part of learning about WW2 but not a separate subject on it's own.

Which was true in my day and as that was over 20 years ago for me.

As for the subect at hand it must be told in a way to school children will understand and learn what the Nazis did was pure evil.

[geetrue]

Fear should be taught instead ... :yep:

[waste gate]

I'm not sure how this fits in but I'm sure it needs mentioning.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/122134be-ed14-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html

[STEED]

I'm not sure how this fits in but I'm sure it needs mentioning.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/122134be-ed14-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html


Laws that make denying or trivialising the Holocaust a criminal offence punishable by jail sentences will be introduced across the European Union, according to a proposal expecting to win backing from ministers Thursday.
Offenders will face up to three years in jail under the proposed legislation,

Is the EU going to lock up Iran?

[waste gate]

I'm not sure how this fits in but I'm sure it needs mentioning.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/122134be-ed14-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html


Laws that make denying or trivialising the Holocaust a criminal offence punishable by jail sentences will be introduced across the European Union, according to a proposal expecting to win backing from ministers Thursday.
Offenders will face up to three years in jail under the proposed legislation,

Is the EU going to lock up Iran?

Probably not. Future British students who have never heard of the holocaust may be at risk. Never mind the freedom of speach issues. That's just the US, which don't seem to exist in Germany or Austria currently and the entire EU in the future.

[Skybird]

Meanwhile, while Europe is concerned about not offending tolerant, peace-loving Muhammedanism, in Turkey three Christian publishers got bound, and murdered by Muhammedans.

It'S not the first murder of Christians in Turkey this year, and it is not the first murdering of christians in Muhammedan countries this year. And it was not different in the year and the years before.

How many Muhammdeans have been murdered in Europe recently, in the name of the church, or the name of Jesus?

Mosques and "culture centres" continue to be built almsot everyhwere ineurope. How many churches and synagogues are currently being build in muhammedan countries?

Many fatwas (calls for assassination) against western critics of Muhammedanism are currently on "active". how many muhammedan representatives or hate-preachers against Western culture are currently fearing to be assassinated by Christians or Jews in Europe?

[The Avon Lady]

It seems this revisionism is everywhere.

Take Saving Private Ryan for instance.

If you didn't know better, you might think the US Army was non-segregated in WWII, if you thought Vin Diesel was playing a character of mixed decent.

Also, you might think it was easy to be Jewish in the US Army in WWII.
Oh! Look over there!

:roll:

The discrimination of minorities in the US military in WWII is not the subject of the movie Saving Private Ryan. I'm sure the military buffs here can point out other factual inaccuracies or distortions in the movie, which have no serious relevance as far as what the storyline of the movie is supposed to portray.

Incidentally, the reason why very often there appear multi-racial actors and fill-ins in movies, when they really don't fit in historically, is because there are anti-discrimination laws that may be violated if they didn't do otherwise. Even here, the intent is not revisionism but an attempt at fair employment practices.

UPDATE: I, too, think that what started this thread has been settled (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/postopinion/letters/u_k__teaches_it_right_letters_.htm), at least the specific accusation against the entire UK educational system on this matter.

[Heibges]

It seems this revisionism is everywhere.

Take Saving Private Ryan for instance.

If you didn't know better, you might think the US Army was non-segregated in WWII, if you thought Vin Diesel was playing a character of mixed decent.

Also, you might think it was easy to be Jewish in the US Army in WWII.
Oh! Look over there!

:roll:

The discrimination of minorities in the US military in WWII is not the subject of the movie Saving Private Ryan. I'm sure the military buffs here can point out other factual inaccuracies or distortions in the movie, which have no serious relevance as far as what the storyline of the movie is supposed to portray.

Incidentally, the reason why very often there appear multi-racial actors and fill-ins in movies, when they really don't fit in historically, is because there are anti-discrimination laws that may be violated if they didn't do otherwise. Even here, the intent is not revisionism but an attempt at fair employment practices.

UPDATE: I, too, think that what started this thread has been settled (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/postopinion/letters/u_k__teaches_it_right_letters_.htm), at least the specific accusation against the entire UK educational system on this matter.

I really couldn't figure out what the point of Saving Private Ryan was, except for a rehash of Sahara.

In the United States anti-discrimination laws do not apply to the entertainment industry in regards to actors or models representing historical figures or characters from movies or literature.

[The Avon Lady]

In the United States anti-discrimination laws do not apply to the entertainment industry in regards to actors or models representing historical figures or characters from movies or literature.
What about the rest of the cast?

Sample short article: Casting Calls Might Violate Federal Law (http://www.cantonrep.com/printable.php?ID=322579).

[joea]

In the United States anti-discrimination laws do not apply to the entertainment industry in regards to actors or models representing historical figures or characters from movies or literature. What about the rest of the cast?

Sample short article: Casting Calls Might Violate Federal Law (http://www.cantonrep.com/printable.php?ID=322579).

Don't know about the USA, but here in Geneva there was a hue and cry raised when the re-enactor "Compagnie 1602" was accused of racism for not hiring minorities for it's re-enaction of the "Escalade" festival in Geneva every November. The Escalade was the last time the Duke of Savoy tried to conquer "the Protestant Rome" by mercenaries scaling the walls with ladders the night of November 12-13 1602. It failed and is a quite fun holiday with a parade, musket shooting, soup and chocolate pots. (Cause one lady dropped a pot of soup on an assailant)

Ahh what was my point...oh yea...the mercs hired by his Highness Duke Charles Emmanuel were mostly Spanish or Italian ... no minorites. Geneva was also rather different. Still they have to hire all minorities...well for the parade of musicians with kids from the high schools who play fife and drum it's ok to reflect the current mix I guess. Still to require that this group not refuse any minority is another example of PC gone overboard. Mind you I have not seen any among the actual re-enactors, all are pale middled aged Swiss men with beer and fondue bellies. :rotfl:

[Safe-Keeper]

Fantastic. Christian fundamentalists in the United States trying to shut down teaching of evolution, the Earth's age, sex ed and tolerance of homosexuals and 'heathens', and Muslim radicals in Britain censoring the Holocaust and Crusades (let's hope the latter does not give Christian fundies in the States an idea).

As for Muslims not wanting to , nothing new there. Try telling certain Christians that there there are people killing and bombing and raping for Christ. Tell them about the Indian and African terrorist campaigns and inform them Timothy McVeigh was Christian. And just to have something contemporary, tell them the Virginia Tech shooter invoked the name of Jesus. I'll provide the flak jacket and pay your lenghty hospital stay:p.

Look, my point is this: Stop thinking about this as specifically an Islamic problem - all Abrahamic religions are incompatible with education and progress. Was it up Christian fundamentalists, we'd never even have airplanes (see, Daddy God didn't give us wings, so we're not meant to fly:roll:). We'd have even more people getting unwanted abortions and STDs (condoms are apparently Satanic).

Oh, and as for Saving Private Ryan: The inclusion of the dark guy does not neccessarily have anything to do with political correctness - anyone watching the whole thing and listing the blatant slaughter of historical accuraccy realizes it's just that they had zero clue as to what they were doing when they made the damned movie.

[Heibges]

In the United States anti-discrimination laws do not apply to the entertainment industry in regards to actors or models representing historical figures or characters from movies or literature. What about the rest of the cast?

Sample short article: Casting Calls Might Violate Federal Law (http://www.cantonrep.com/printable.php?ID=322579).

Don't know about the USA, but here in Geneva there was a hue and cry raised when the re-enactor "Compagnie 1602" was accused of racism for not hiring minorities for it's re-enaction of the "Escalade" festival in Geneva every November. The Escalade was the last time the Duke of Savoy tried to conquer "the Protestant Rome" by mercenaries scaling the walls with ladders the night of November 12-13 1602. It failed and is a quite fun holiday with a parade, musket shooting, soup and chocolate pots. (Cause one lady dropped a pot of soup on an assailant)

Ahh what was my point...oh yea...the mercs hired by his Highness Duke Charles Emmanuel were mostly Spanish or Italian ... no minorites. Geneva was also rather different. Still they have to hire all minorities...well for the parade of musicians with kids from the high schools who play fife and drum it's ok to reflect the current mix I guess. Still to require that this group not refuse any minority is another example of PC gone overboard. Mind you I have not seen any among the actual re-enactors, all are pale middled aged Swiss men with beer and fondue bellies. :rotfl:

If looks, race etc are not important to the part then standard rules apply. For instance, a short fat person could not complain they were not cast as Abe Lincoln who was tall and skinny. But a short fat person might have legal cause if they were not cast as say Lincoln's butler. This issue came up at Disneyland regarding the casting of an Indiana Jones look-alike, and is generally brought up at most HR training in the US.

[Heibges]

Oh, and as for Saving Private Ryan: The inclusion of the dark guy does not neccessarily have anything to do with political correctness - anyone watching the whole thing and listing the blatant slaughter of historical accuraccy realizes it's just that they had zero clue as to what they were doing when they made the damned movie.

I agree. I think Speilberg just wanted to show the American's and particularly The Greatest Generation (of which my father was part in the 43rd Infanty Division 1/172nd Infantry Regiment in the Pacific with Big Mac) as totally good and show the German's as totally bad. What bothered me was that it was made to look "realistic", and some folks might assume it is the truth.

On a side note, one thing that I had never heard of until I moved to California was how 100 million Chinese were murdered by the Japanese. 100 Million people, yet very few folks in America are even aware it happened.

[SUBMAN1]

Fantastic. Christian fundamentalists in the United States trying to shut down teaching of evolution, the Earth's age, sex ed and tolerance of homosexuals and 'heathens', and Muslim radicals in Britain censoring the Holocaust and Crusades (let's hope the latter does not give Christian fundies in the States an idea).

Where? I live here and that is no where to be found.

[Subnuts]

On a side note, one thing that I had never heard of until I moved to California was how 100 million Chinese were murdered by the Japanese. 100 Million people, yet very few folks in America are even aware it happened.

Probably because the number is closer 10 million. Not that it makes it any better.

On a side note to my side note, why is it that certain people increase or decrease the number of people killed in an atrocity to make a certain group look better or worse? Like people are going to think the Nazis were saints if they exterminated "only" two million Jews, or honestly believe that communism has killed more people than old age. :roll:

[Safe-Keeper]

Where? I live here and that is no where to be found.What, Christians trying to take over schools? It's everywhere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education). [url=http://www.fstdt.com[/url]FSTDT does a good job at collecting quotes from them.

[Heibges]

On a side note, one thing that I had never heard of until I moved to California was how 100 million Chinese were murdered by the Japanese. 100 Million people, yet very few folks in America are even aware it happened.

Probably because the number is closer 10 million. Not that it makes it any better.

On a side note to my side note, why is it that certain people increase or decrease the number of people killed in an atrocity to make a certain group look better or worse? Like people are going to think the Nazis were saints if they exterminated "only" two million Jews, or honestly believe that communism has killed more people than old age. :roll:

I had never heard of either number until I moved to San Francisco and saw the protests around the Japanese Consulate on Geary Street.

There was famous Holocaust scholar, Raul Hilberg, who calculated that 5 million Jews were killed and he was pilloried for it.

Stalin did brag to Winston Churchill that he starved 10 Million Ukranian Peasants to death.

[The Avon Lady]

There was famous Holocaust scholar, Raul Hilberg, who calculated that 5 million Jews were killed and he was pilloried for it.
Who "pilloried" him for this?
Stalin did brag to Winston Churchill that he starved 10 Million Ukranian Peasants to death.
Look around and you'll find that Stalin never said such a thing to Churchill. He referred to the number of peasants he had to deal with.

In addition, death estimates of the peasants generally range from 3-4 million, with some historians saying 5.
What, Christians trying to take over schools? It's everywhere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education).
One could just as easily conclude from this article that anti-Christians already have taken control over the schools. Both are incorrect conclusions.

[The Avon Lady]

Try telling certain Christians that there there are people killing and bombing and raping for Christ. Tell them about the Indian and African terrorist campaigns and inform them Timothy McVeigh was Christian. And just to have something contemporary, tell them the Virginia Tech shooter invoked the name of Jesus. I'll provide the flak jacket and pay your lenghty hospital stay:p.

Look, my point is this: Stop thinking about this as specifically an Islamic problem - all Abrahamic religions are incompatible with education and progress.
One word: tripe.