The deck gun... how did they ?

[SteamWake]

There was another thread here discussing the deck gun and its accuracy.

But it got me to thinking about something Ive always wondered about.

How on earth did they keep these guns in operating condition after being subjected to salt spray, temprature extremes, the occassional dunking sometimes to considerable depths.

What would happen if the gun was "warmed" up from use and have to be suddenly dunked into cold salt water ?

How long did it take to get the gun ready to fire after surfacing ?

Id love to see discussion and even better perhaps some maintance manuals on this topic.

[AVGWarhawk]

I know there was a cap on the barrel end to keep water out. I guess a lot of grease to keep it going.

[SteamWake]

Im pretty sure that the "cap" would not keep the water out.

I doubt that the breech was water tight.

Im also guessing that it gets forgotten occasionaly in a rush to dive.

[Kant Schwimm]

I would imagine alot of brass was used in the construction too, good point though - would be interesting to see how long it takes to get operational after surfacing:hmm:

[shmall]

http://www.bowfin.org/website/bowfin/bowfin_systems/deck/deck.htm

Guns mounted on the deck of a submarine were known as "wet type," which are not easily damaged by submergence. :)



Simon :)

[tater]

Assuming it was packed with cosmoline or something, I imaging clearing the gun for action might take a few minutes (swab out the barrel, etc).

[Kant Schwimm]

I just found this refering to the 20mm..

" Pressure-proof storage was provided for these guns, but it was found that they could tolerate immersion reasonable well provided the barrels were changed frequently."

Prolly explains why I see 2 guns strapped to the wall in the conn.

[AVGWarhawk]

I just found this refering to the 20mm..

" Pressure-proof storage was provided for these guns, but it was found that they could tolerate immersion reasonable well provided the barrels were changed frequently."

Prolly explains why I see 2 guns strapped to the wall in the conn.

Is there two in conn? I did not see these. I have to check that out.

[akdavis]

I just found this refering to the 20mm..

" Pressure-proof storage was provided for these guns, but it was found that they could tolerate immersion reasonable well provided the barrels were changed frequently."

Prolly explains why I see 2 guns strapped to the wall in the conn.

Those aren't 20mm cannon...

[Kant Schwimm]

I just found this refering to the 20mm..

" Pressure-proof storage was provided for these guns, but it was found that they could tolerate immersion reasonable well provided the barrels were changed frequently."

Prolly explains why I see 2 guns strapped to the wall in the conn.

Those aren't 20mm cannon...

yup look more like MG's...

[clayp]

They are fine as long as you dont pee on them...:rotfl:

[SteamWake]

They are fine as long as you dont pee on them...:rotfl:

Theres not a whole lot of difference between pee and saltwater except for the amonia.

[humesdog]

I read somewhere in a book detailing operations in the Mediterranean that the tommies practiced surfacing and rapid fire deck gun exchanges, followed by a crash dive. I want to say they would be ready to engage a target with the deck gun about 30-45 seconds after broaching the surface. Of course these were different types of submarines but it shows you that deck guns in general could be used quickly right after surfacing.

[Kant Schwimm]

"In addition to the armament described above, the fleet type submarine carries other small arms and pyrotechnics (Figure 1-17). Chief among these are two 30-caliber and four 50-caliber Browning machine guns, and one 45-caliber Thompson submachine gun." http://www.imagedump.com/pics/497101.jpghttp://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=497101 Yup definately Browning mg's... now if we could just make a mod so we can strap these suckers to conn.....:lol:

[shad43]

I just found this refering to the 20mm..

" Pressure-proof storage was provided for these guns, but it was found that they could tolerate immersion reasonable well provided the barrels were changed frequently."

Prolly explains why I see 2 guns strapped to the wall in the conn.
Is there two in conn? I did not see these. I have to check that out.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s89/shad43/TamborWeaponsRackAmmo.jpg

Brownings...:D

[Sailor Steve]

Im pretty sure that the "cap" would not keep the water out.
Why not? That's what it was there for.

I doubt that the breech was water tight.
It's air-tight, so it should be water-tight as well.

Im also guessing that it gets forgotten occasionaly in a rush to dive.
That I can't argue with. There's actually nothing there that can be hurt by the water; the problem is when the barrel starts to rust and the shell jams more easily.

[Chock]

Deck guns on subs were usually equipped with a tompion (basically a plug which either screwed or clamped to the muzzle of the gun). If you look closely at many pictures of subs with a deck gun, you'll see it in place, often with a lanyard attached to it which is usually spiralled along the barrel to keep it from fouling stuff. Liberal coatings of grease would help too and I assume that other methods to prevent corrosion would also be used. One such method is the use of sacrificial annode plugs - you see these in use on the props of modern submarines where more than one material is used, the plugs giving themselves up to corrosion in order to prevent the important bits from corroding in the salt water.

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand, I could be wrong:

The Mark 17 was a "wet mount" version for submarines and was unusual in that it did not require breech or muzzle plugs. This was because it used a special liner resistant to corrosion from sea water and could thus be submerged and flooded without harm to the gun.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-25_mk10.htm

[Skubber]

That was a good question SteamWake, I had been wondering about that, too.
(and some good replies, as well)

It also seems that the American deck guns could fire many more rounds per minute than the German U-boat guns.

I assume that this was due to a different loading method?

(You'd think those german engineers woulda come up with something similar?)

[NEON DEON]

That was a good question SteamWake, I had been wondering about that, too.
(and some good replies, as well)

It also seems that the American deck guns could fire many more rounds per minute than the German U-boat guns.

I assume that this was due to a different loading method?

(You'd think those german engineers woulda come up with something similar?)

The 4"/50 was kind a slow at firing. About 7 seconds a round.

The 5"/25 that was designed as an Anti air weapon was much faster at 3 seconds a round.

The other deck gun used on subs the 3"/50. It was a dual purpose gun and could also fire a round every 3 seconds.

The German 88 (3.46") and 105 (4.1") could fire a round every 4 seconds.

One advantage US boats had over the U boats were a dedicated method of delivery. The US boats had ammo scuttles where as the Uboats had to pass em thru the hatch.