Wildcat and Dauntless were to be in the game

[LukeFF]

I just had a look in the /textures/tnormal/tex folder, and sure enough, there are the graphics files (not holdovers from SH3) for both of these aircraft. But, thanks to Ubi's legal blunders, we're stuck with a fighter that was pulled from service after Midway and a dive bomber that similarly had a short and undignified career.

Nice way to nerf historical correctness, Ubi... :nope:

[Sir Big Jugs]

Wait a few months, the modders will soon have fixed it.:yep:

[Aimbot]

Blaim Norntrop Grumman. They're doing their damndest to make sure everyone forgets their historical influence.

You have to wonder where thheir future engineers are going to come from if kids can't build models and play flight sims of their aircraft.

[Jensen]

There are ways to avoid this. I remember when Combat Mission came out.
Waffen SS units were named "Waffen-grenadiere" but everybody knew what they were. We could rename the Wildcat "The Whatcat" and perhaps the Dauntless could be the "Don´tless" :rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

It is a legal issue. IL2 had the same issue concerning Northrop and their design of aircraft. Microsoft had the same issue with the CFS series as well.

[Jensen]

You´re right, but even so, why don´t Mitsubishi make a fuss? Well I guess there is not much we can do with this kind of narrowmindness :down:

[AVGWarhawk]

Copyright issues. Some companies do not care. Some do not want others making a dollar for their creations/work.

[sea enemy]

but even so, why don´t Mitsubishi make a fuss?

Technically, it's not the same mitsubishi. The wartime mistubishi dosen't exist anymore. Post-war, heavy industry was sort of nationalized, and then re-distributed-It's the same 'family' of buisness (zaibatsu), but..different.


I can pass on allied fighters (you never see them anyways)..but, where's the Mariner, or Catalina?

[Tigrone]

Both the Catalina and the Liberator have graphic models but are not implemented, just like the US medals are not. We do get Lancasters, though.

[sandbag69]

Buy SH3 then copy planes into Sh4. Its a peice of p1$$ to do:up:

[SingeDebile]

Both the Catalina and the Liberator have graphic models but are not implemented, just like the US medals are not. We do get Lancasters, though.

WHAT!!!!!!!! the catalina is even in the intro movie which i noticed right away (as its my favorite plane of ww2).... !!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS RIDICULAS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT MY PBY BACK!!!!!!!!!! HOW DO I MOD THIS!!!!!!!!!

[joea]

Guys, thinking about this, I can't blame the devs for this decision. However, they gave us the possibility to change things back. It must be really easy to do cut and paste (I suppose) and sub in B-24s or PBYs say where Lancs are...or Wildcats where Buffalos are. BTW thanks to the devs we got Buffalos which would be great for early war scenarios in the Dutch East Indies and they could sub for P-35s in the Phillipines. :sunny:

We could use the Lancasters in a future super Atlantic mod or even port them over to SH3 for scripted missions to bomb the Tirpitz!! I actually think from the screenies I've seen the Lanc is a nice model.

[Tarnish_UK]

I've replaced the Lancaster and the Helldiver with the SH3 Liberator and Avenger which is a good stop gap measure, I did have the PBY Catalina in there too for a short while but it won't show up now for some reason I just the B24 for the bomber and the patrol aircraft. Well it's better than nothing.

[Chock]

As far as I'm aware, the reason that there are copyright issues with old aircraft stems from legislation which is in place to limit liability.

The reasoning goes something like this: Aeroplane enthusiast X wants to build a replica of a Flying Fortress (which would be damned impressive if he could manage it) however, if he builds it and subsequently crashes it and kills himself, his dependents could (in theory) have a legal claim on compensation from Boeing (since it would have been their design which would have resulted in X buying the farm).

Silly I know, but this is the legal world in which business operates and they don't like loose ends, no matter how far fetched any scenario which could derive from it might be. And so, silly as it might seem, and indeed often is, much of this legislation wraps things up so tight that even reproducing one in a simulation gets the big no no. This is one of the reasons why vintage aircraft are worth such a lot of money and probably why you invariably see Messershmitt 108 Taifuns, and the Spanish copies playing the part of Messerschmitt bf 109s in naff war movies :D

[akdavis]

This is from Lockheed-Martin, but others like Northrop-Grumman have asserted similar rights:


The following is a non-exclusive list of registered trademarks, registered service marks, or trademarks or service marks of Lockheed Martin Corporation or its subsidiaries, in the United States and/or other countries or jurisdictions:

A (& DESIGN), A2100, ABOVE AND BEYOND, ACP, ACTRAVIS, AEGIS, AEROCRAFT, AEROCRAFT (& DESIGN), AEROSPACEWARRIOR, AIMPOINT (Stylized), AIR EXPRESS, ALAM, ALERT, ALTAIR, AMERICA'S SILENT HERO, AN/APG-67, AN/APS-145, ANALYTYX, ARGMatch, ARMY TACTICAL MISSILE SYSTEM, ARQUEST, ARQUEST (& DESIGN), ARROWHEAD, ATACMS, ATHENA, ATLAS, ATLAS (& DESIGN), ATLAS A (& DESIGN), ATLAS III, ATLAS V, AUP, AUTOGRAPHICS, B-24, BLACKBIRD, BLU-109, BLU-116, BSY-2, C-130, C-141, C-5, CASS, CAVP, CBREWS, CENTAUR, CHALLENGER MARINE, CHAPARRAL, CKEM, CODE ONE, COMPU-SCENE, COMSAT, COMSAT (& Design), COMSAT (DESIGN ONLY), COMSAT STAR, CONSTELLATION, CONSTITUTION, CSC SATELLITE (DESIGN ONLY), DEFINING MOMENTS, DFT, DISPLAY BROKER, DSMAC, EAGLE (DESIGN ONLY), EagleSpeed, EASISTAR, EDGE FACTORY, ELECTRA, EMBRACE SPACE, EMBRACE SPACE (& DESIGN), ERR, ESAR, ESTARS, E-SATCENTRAL, ETOC, eTOC (STYLIZED), ETRACK IT, EXAMINER 3DX, EXPLORER, F/A-22, F/A-22 RAPTOR, F-104, F-117, F-16, F-16 (Configuration), F-16 FIGHTING FALCON, F-22, F-35, F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER (Design Only), F-80, F-94, FalconSAR, FAST HULL, FASTRAK, FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (& DESIGN), FIGHTING FALCON, FIRST LOOK, FIRST SHOT, FIRST KILL, FLIGHT DECK, FORMTEK, FORMTEK ORION, FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE OCEANS TO THE FAR REACHES OF SPACE, FUTUREPOINT, GALAXY, GLOBAL 21, GLOBAL ACCESS (& DESIGN), GLOBAL BUSINESS SOLUTIONS,GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN MANAGEMENT LMAP COUNCIL etc. (& DESIGN), GMLRS, HAVE LITE, HAWKEYE, HAWKEYE XR, HELLFIRE, HELLFIRE II, HERCULES, HI, HI GAIN, HI GAIN (& DESIGN), HI SEAS, HIGH MOBILITY ARTILLERY ROCKET SYSTEM, HIGH TIDE, HIMARS, HUDSON, IDAS/MATT, IEP-CAM, ILS, ILS (& DESIGN), ImageCoder, IMAGER, INTELLIGENT LIBRARY SYSTEM, INTERNATIONAL LAUNCH SERVICES, Inc., INVENTIT, INVENTIT (& Design), JASSM, JETSTAR, JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER, JSF, KELLY AVIATION CENTER, KELLY AVIATION CENTER, A LOCKHEED MARTIN AFFILIATE (& Design), L-1011, LANTIRN, LASER UT, LIBERATOR, LIGHT MOVER, LINCOCITY, LINE-OF-SIGHT ANTITANK, LINE-OF-SIGHT ANTITANK (STYLIZED), LINKOSITY, LINKOSITY (& DESIGN), LINKOSITY (DESIGN ONLY), LM PEOPLE, LMC, LMCO, LMC PROPERTIES, LM-STAR, LM-XPRESS, LOCAAS, LOCKHEED, LOCKHEED (& DESIGN), LOCKHEED MARTIN, LOCKHEED MARTIN (& DESIGN), LOCKHEED MARTIN CORPORATION, LOCKHEED MARTIN STAR (DESIGN ONLY), Lockheed Martin STARS Institute, Lockheed Martin STARS Institute (& Design), LODESTAR, LONGBOW, LONGBOW HELLFIRE, LOSAT, LUNAR PROSPECTOR, MA-25, MAIL CART SYSTEMS, mARS, MARS FLYING BOAT, MARTIN, MAXIPLAN, MAXIPURGE, MAXISORT, MAXISTAR, MAXISTAR ONSCHEDULE, METEOSTAR, METRIXWORKS METRICS MADE EASY (& DESIGN), METROGUARD, MEWSS PIP, MH-60R, MI-15, MICAD, MILLENNIUM DRIVER TRAINER SYSTEM, MILSTAR, MISSION SUCCESS, MISSION SYSTEMS, MLRS, MMSR, MOMENT OF TRUTH, MSTAR, MSTAR TECHNOLOGY, MTOC, MULTIPLE LAUNCH ROCKET SYSTEM, MULTIPLE LAUNCH ROCKET SYSTEM (STYLIZED), NEPTUNE, NETFIRES, NEW MEXICO CAPITAL NETWORK, NIGHTHAWK, NITE Hawk, NO HIGHER STANDARD, OCEAN 21, OMNISTAR, ORION, ORLANDO CENTRAL PARK, OUT HERE THERE ARE NO STOP SIGNS, P-2V, P-3, P-3 Orion, P-38 LIGHTNING, P-38J LIGHTNING, P-80, PAC-3, PAL (& DESIGN), PANTERA, PARTNERSHIPS MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE, PATHMAKER, PERFORMANCE BY THE HOUR, PGMM, PIBOX, PIRA, PLUG AND FIGHT, POLAR, POSTAL TECHNOLOGIES, INC., PREDATOR, PS-59, PSTAR, PTC, P-TEN, PTI, RADIANT MERCURY, RADIANT MERCURY (& Design), RADIANT TRUST, RADIANT TRUST (& DESIGN), RAINBOW, RAPTOR, RATE, RRPR, S-3, S-3B, SAFE, SATCENTER, SATELLITE CONTROL SYSTEM 21, SATS, SATURN, SEA SENTINEL, SEA TALON, SEASTAR, SENTRY OWL, SHIELD, SHOOTING STAR, SILENT KEYER, SILENT SENTRY, SIRIUS, SKUNK (DESIGN ONLY), SKUNK WORKS, SKYLINE, SKYTRACKER, SLICE, SMARTBRIDGE, SNAKE EYES, SnifferSTAR, SNIPER, SNIPER XR, SOE INSTITUTE, SOLUTION 21, SPACE BOY (DESIGN ONLY), SPEAR, SR-71, ST3000, STABILITE, STABILITE STAR (DESIGN ONLY), STARFIGHTER, STARFIRE, STARLIFTER, SttL, SUPER CONSTELLATION, SYNCHRONETICS, TACMS, TADS/PNVS, TALARIA, TBMCS, TEAM WIN-T, THAAD, THE FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (& DESIGN), THE FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (DESIGN ONLY), THE POWER TO LIFT A NATION, THE POWER TO LIFT THE WORLD, TITAN, TOPSCENE, TOUCH N' GO CALIBRATION,TPP (& Design), TRIDENT, U-2, UNITED SPACE ALLIANCE, UNITED WE SERVE, URET CCLD, USA (& DESIGN), V2 (squared-STYLIZED), VALIANT, VALIDIAN, VALIDIAN (& Design), VEGA HARPOON, VEGA VENTURA, VENTURE VISION, VENTURESTAR, VENTURESTAR EXPLOSION (DESIGN ONLY), VERS L'UNIVERS, VIEU STAR, VIKING, VISTA, VLA, VOUGHT, VTMIS, WCMD, WE BRING YOU THE WORLD, WE NEVER FORGET WHO WE'RE WORKING FOR, WELDALITE, X-35, XD, XR, ZIP SEAL, ZIP-STRIP

Configurations and designs of aircraft and spacecraft may also be registered trademarks or are trademarks of Lockheed Martin Corporation, including without limitation, the configuration of certain fighter aircraft such as the configuration of the F-16 FIGHTING FALCON, JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER, F/A-22, and P-38 LIGHTNING aircraft.

To the extent a name, logo or design does not appear on the above list, such lack of appearance does not constitute a waiver of any intellectual property rights that Lockheed Martin Corporation has established in its product or service names or logos, or in product configurations or designs, all of which rights are expressly reserved.


Note that trademark rights are extended beyond their corporate name or the names of merged corporations to include the names, military designations, designs and configurations of WWII aircraft. Based on these claims (along with the threat of litigation) they have, for example, coerced model kit makers to pay royalties for reproducing the designs and configuration of their aircraft in plastic model form.

[Blood_splat]

Lawyers:damn:

[L3TUC3]

Wait, there's Brewster Buffaloes in the game? I havent seen those yet. Where are they hiding?

I'm making a Dutch East Indies mod and knowing the buffaloes are in already would make stuff a lot easier.

[Tigrone]

The Buffalo, F2A, is the game's generic US fighter. It may be the only US fighter and is on every US carrier in the game. Check the Battle off Samar mission, and you'll see them.

[Tigrone]

I've replaced the Lancaster and the Helldiver with the SH3 Liberator and Avenger which is a good stop gap measure, I did have the PBY Catalina in there too for a short while but it won't show up now for some reason I just the B24 for the bomber and the patrol aircraft. Well it's better than nothing.

The Lancaster was mapped as both the US generic bomber and patrol plane. That's probably why your PBY did not hold; the game mapped both generic types to the same .dds file. But, how did you swap the B24 for the Lancaster? Please keep the answer to an idiot's guide level if you could?

[LukeFF]

I know about the legal issues Ubi ran into with Pacific Fighters. Thanks to them, now everyone modeling Grumman-produced aircraft must pay a licensing fee to them - not too long ago I saw a model F4U Corsair at a toy store, and sure enough the box print said "F4U Corsair is a trademark of Northrop Grumman."

The issue with Combat Mission and "Waffen Grenadier" was that Battlefront could not use the term "Waffen SS" in the european release of the game, due to legitimate legal issues with countries that have banned and/or restricted the use of Nazi terminology and symbolism. Fair enough. We've yet to see the F4F and SBD in SH4 because Ubi made a stupid marketing decision with Pacific Fighters, got called on the carpet for it by Grumman, and now pass the end result on to us, the consumers. Oh, but I see they managed to get the Corsair on the box art. Geez, thanks. :roll:

To those who say, "oh, just copy/paste in the planes from SH3," or "the modders will fix this in due time," stop giving Ubi excuses like this! Every time you say this, you give them more reason to put games out in an unfinished state, knowing that players will gleefully take any scraps thrown their way and fix any problems on their own time. Ubi is just another example of a corporation that pushes out games too soon, just so they can bring in more sales at the expense of quality. Thankfully there are wargame publishers like Battlefront that aren't like Ubi and DO care about the quality of the software they release. Look at how long they have held back the release of Theatre of War, to make sure everything was working properly and to code things in people requested! I guarantee you, a Silent Hunter 4 published by them would simply blow away anything put out by Ubi, simply because they care about doing things right.

[V.C. Sniper]

Lawyers:damn: r useless and lame

[LukeFF]

Wow, a thread of mine from 2007! :D

[razark]

Wow, a thread of mine from 2007! :D

Yup. They've done the same thing in SH5. This thread will probably be getting a few references soon.

[Bubblehead1980]

yet another thing that always ticked me off but modders could put them in the PTO.I mean i played Op Monsun and had TBFs , Wildcats and I think a PBY come after me

Modders should not have to pick up so much of the slack though.Blah

[Sailor Steve]

I never mind necro threads. Sometimes they are even helpful.

What gets me, though, is the way people usually don't mention it, they just pick up the conversation where it left off...two years ago.
:rotfl2:

[cheese123]

I wonder how Battlestations: Midway and Pacific got the Dauntless and Avenger aircraft in their game?

[Bubblehead1980]

Prob paid some money and companies agreed.Business plane and simple.UBI shouldnt be cheap