I told you so

[Rockstar]

For those who only follow this issue occasionally; it seems clear that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan may win the Presidency next month. He is an Islamist without a doubt. Despite this fact, he has been playing the role of peace loving moderate.

Also we see that Libya’s President Momar Qaddafi is pitting himself against the Arab nations (The foremost of which are Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan) and is clearly going to bat for Shi’a Islam and Iran. Once again, the specific nations specified by Ezekiel in chapter 38 are indeed forming a coalition and are standing against the “resisitor nations“. Amazing stuff.

The fourth Kingdom in Nubchad-nezzars dream is forming details of are in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Next Kingdom to come will be that of the God of Israel. Seems like events are coming at us like a big truck going down a big hill with no brakes.

You do know this has been written about well over 2000 years ago. It is going to happen

Where will you be spending eternity?

[CCIP]

As my Agama suggests, quite clearly in nirvana :|\\

[The Avon Lady]

Where will you be spending eternity?
Regards from Jerusalem. ;)

[squigian]

Lucky for us that Johnny Russian and Johnny Chinaman are just catching on to how serious this could be, for them included.

[Skybird]

Lucky for us that Johnny Russian and Johnny Chinaman are just catching on to how serious this could be, for them included.

The Russians know for sure, but rate short-term economical and financial interests as higher than long-term strategic perspectives. I see them as self-contradicting in this.

The Chinese underestimate it and - like Europe - consider themselves as so superior in culture and attractiveness that they assume they could tame Islam. They also want something that Islam'S nations do have: oil.

With regard to the West, both approach Islam by a motive of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

A new interpretation of "divide and conquer" from a Muhammedan perspective.

I fear that in the longterm run, Islam will win the fight for global and total ruling, because simplicity and superstition may prevent it from becoming intellectually attractive and develope a form of humane reason, but it also means a kind of robustness and unimpressiveness that cannot be irritated by "minor" failures and delays". Also, the demographical advantage that will last for another 5-7 decades. It is kind of "biological warfare".

There is only one Islam - Muhammad's Islam. You cannot tame it. Fight it, or submit. Evertyhing else is suicidal folly and self-deception.


concernign Erdogan, I agree with Rockstar (ignoring the biblical part of course). I warn of that guy (Erdogan, not Rockstar :) )since almost three years, if i am not mistaken, and I have seen with my own eyes how very strong extreme orthodox Islam in turkey is if only you move outside the major city and go into the countryside. It never was gone under Ataturk. It just hid, and waited. the only thing saving turkey from becoming a Islamic hardline nation is the role of the military.

And stupid, stupid, stupid europeans demand Tukrey to take away the special role the military plays in Turkey. Madness. Tells me something on how far western reason has degenerated.

[Rockstar]

Where will you be spending eternity?
Regards from Jerusalem. ;)

I hope you're right, but let me be clear there is no hope without Christ He is that lamb slain for your sins and mine. No more sacrifice needed it is a finished work available to the Jew first and also the gentile. In otherwords Gods Son came for His chosen people the apple of His eye first we gentiles recieve also but we were not the reason He came.

Btw I heard the location of the second temple was found and that abomination a.k.a. Dome of the Rock is actually located in its outer courts.

http://www.huji.ac.il/cgi-bin/dovrut/dovrut_search_eng_dev.pl?mesge117091874232688760

If that research turns out to be accurate then there is nothing holding back the building of the 3rd temple besides politics. The Dome could remain and possibly fulfill part of this scripture.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

If the location of the Dome ends up being where the outer court is then this is very interesting. If I recall correctly anyone could visit the outer court and only Jews could proceed any further in. Don’t know how comfortable either side would be with the two so close together. But if it was in the name of peace maybe they could tolerate the religious centers so close to one another. Otherwise we are still waiting for an earthquake or other misfortune to level the Dome. One thing is certain though, neither side would be willing to give up their claims to the Holy site. There will have to be compromise or defeat before we see a temple.

[The Avon Lady]

Zechariah 14 (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2314.htm).

[Rockstar]

And just as the 23rd Psalms describes in vivid detail the suffering of Christ on the cross so to does Ezekiel 38 and 39 describe in great detail the nations to come against Israel in that Day.

The four Beast Empires spoken of by the prophet Daniel deal strictly with Israel only. Sorry Revived Roman Empire types he Roman Empire and the 1st Islamic Caliphate (Ottoman Empire) happened during the church age. That is why Daniel only spoke of four.

The terrible image in Nubchad-nezzars dream

Head of Fine Gold - Babylon
Breast and Arms - Mede Persia
Belly and Thighs - Greek
Legs of Iron and Feet of Clay - revived Islamic Calphate
------------
א תִּקְעוּ שׁוֹפָר בְּצִיּוֹן, וְהָרִיעוּ בְּהַר קָדְשִׁי--יִרְגְּזוּ, כֹּל יֹשְׁבֵי הָאָרֶץ: כִּי-בָא יוֹם-יְהוָה, כִּי קָרוֹב.
1 Blow ye the horn in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is at hand;
ב יוֹם חֹשֶׁךְ וַאֲפֵלָה, יוֹם עָנָן וַעֲרָפֶל, כְּשַׁחַר, פָּרֻשׂ עַל-הֶהָרִים; עַם, רַב וְעָצוּם--כָּמֹהוּ לֹא נִהְיָה מִן-הָעוֹלָם, וְאַחֲרָיו לֹא יוֹסֵף עַד-שְׁנֵי דּוֹר וָדוֹר.
2 A day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as blackness spread upon the mountains; a great people and a mighty, there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after them, even to the years of many generations.

[LoBlo]

Tells me something on how far western reason has degenerated.

Western reason degenerating? Pffft... western reason has always been weak to begin with!:-? IE, two world wars and then itself planting the seeds that became the diabocal that is the Middle East today.

[The Avon Lady]

Yes and just as the 23rd Psalms describes in vivid detail the suffering of Christ on the cross
Ridiculous drivel.

I bet you really meant Psalm 22 (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm), the Christian mistranslations fully discussed here in detail (http://www.messiahtruth.com/psalms.html) and numerous other places. Any child minimally knowlegeable in elementary Hebrew would have no inkling how Christianity concocted such translations. These are the crumbled foundations its faith stands upon. Frightening.
The four Beast Empires spoken of by the prophet Daniel deal strictly with Israel only. Sorry Revived Roman Empire types he Roman Empire and the 1st Islamic Caliphate (Ottoman Empire) happened during the church age. That is why Daniel only spoke of four well actually five but the fifth is the Kingdom of the God of Israel.

The terrible image in Nubchad-nezzars dream

Head of Fine Gold - Babylon
Breast and Arms - Mede Persia
Belly and Thighs - Greek
Legs of Iron and Feet of Clay - revived Islamic Calphate
Daniel 7 (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3407.htm).

The forth beast is Rome (including Christianity) according to some, or Yishmael (Islam) according to others, the latter opinion holding that the 3rd beast is both Greece and Rome combined.

[Skybird]

Tells me something on how far western reason has degenerated.

Western reason degenerating? Pffft... western reason has always been weak to begin with!:-? IE, two world wars and then itself planting the seeds that became the diabocal that is the Middle East today.

See the greater context. For me it began in ancient Greece - not after WWII. Those threethousand years of developement finally led us where we are today - science, technics, meidcine, philosphy, humanism, law, values like freedom, equality; it often was painful, and many stepbacks, but all in all we advanced.

Until today. Now our possebilities are beyond their climax and turn into the opposite. What was reasonable to do and to use in the past, has become a threat today. What was a blessing before, now perverts into extremes doing damage. We have reached the climax some where in recent past - and as we all know, after you reached a climax, things necessarily go down again. Moving in cycles, or better, in spirals - after each round, a new beginning - but hopefully on one level higher.

Well, let's see. I see nature being structured in hierarchies. when you are on one level, you hold the remedy to problems of subordinate levels, but having gained this your current levels has created new problems for you that were not known on levels before, and to which the solution can only be found on even higher levels. This is what drives evolution, imo.

If today so many recipes of the past turn into threats to us, and chnage inbto perverse extremes, than this is a sign, imo, that our moving to the next "level" is blocked, for whatever a reason. These problems are symptoms of stagnation, and interrupted movement.

the 80s were pretty much esoteric, with lots of literature on that. there was oftehn talk of a change of paradigm, and change of ages, a coming "Aquarian" age and we standing on the brink to it. I think this expresses what I mean, from different perspectives, in other words. I, too, think that we cannot survive for much longer if we do not absolve some most fundamental changes, after which we are no longer what we have been, once. Call it an evolutionary quantum leap, maybe, to reach the next level. If we fail in that - well, we will be in good company then. we will belong to those 99.9% of species that since the beginning of life on this planet has appeared and then vanished again. Intelligence in the homo sapiens style still is an evolutionary experiment only, and it may proove to be a dead end, maybe. Nevertheless we are not the only intelligent life forms, we are oinly the ones who have pushed tool-related intelligence further than any other species. But maybe that is becasue of our marvellpous design. what ways will intelligence try to develope on when havin no abilitiy to manipulate tools like we do, or live in a different space, like the open ocean? Or intelligence that is not aware of itself: swarm intelligence, insect states? Artificial intelligence?

Puts things into perspective, I think. And maybe our extinction would be a benefit for life on earth if we are not capable to become different than how we are today.

[Rockstar]

oops your right about it being the 22nd, sorry.

About Daniel though looking at how God numbered them 1-4 would indicate (atleast to me) that we are talking about just four empires. Subdividing the third or fourth into 2 empires would increase the count to 6 and that I believe adding to it. We read this interpretation of the image was given to Daniel by the God of Israel. Who are we to interpret would God has already intepreted for us? Also I believe the entire chapter and contents of the old testement tells of God dealing with Israel and His chosen people. The Roman Empire and the 1st Islamic Calphate happened during the age of grace when God would have all men come to the knowledge of Christ. When the church is taken up God will again be dealing directly with Israel and that fourth empire spoken of in Daniel, namely those nations mentioned in Ezekiel and many others will come against Israel in That Day.

[The Avon Lady]

Who are we to interpret would God has already intepreted for us?
The Prophets' words of G-d themselves are sometimes in need of interpretation when there is a discrepency over the ages on what the original meaning was.