Crash Depth Unrealistic?

[Elphaba]

Hi

I was on a Balao and I took her down to 450, and motored around at Flank speed, picked up a few leaks but nothing bad happened...

Went back to Periscope depth and back down again, and still nothing.

Shouldn't I have imploded way before then?

Tried it on a Porpoise too and it was exacly the same!

I'm a total noob, and I'm just about getting to grips with Silent Hunter 3 with GWX installed, and I did say that I'd sworn off SHIV until it was bug fixed, but heck, I never realised it was THIS bad. :(

Elphaba

[squigian]

Is that 450ft or 450m? Because a Balao could certainly go 450ft down; a Porpoise, however, should not be able to.

[joea]

Yup me thinks the OP confused metres and feet.

[Elphaba]

Hi again

Erm, I need to check, but I THINK it's imperial - so feet.

However, the 450 that I went to is the MAXIMUM that I could select on the dial - I couldn't go any lower if I wanted to... does that sound like feet then or meters?

Sorry about the confusion.

Elphaba

[SKurj]

I got to a little over 400ft in a porpoise, but never was able to surface, she imploded a few seconds after I gave the order to surface.

450ft... about 150yrds not really all that deep.

[btaft]

Just out of curiosity, are the depth ratings published for the different classes or are we just supposed to take out chances. I didn't see them listed anywhere

[Sailor Steve]

450ft... about 150yrds
Pretty close, almost kinda maybe.

[CCIP]

The max gauge doesn't mean max depth.

In a post-war accident, the Balao class USS chopper survived a dive to 1011 feet. Certainly an extreme that you shouldn't experience in game, but Balaos - as indeed most subs - should be capable of exceeding 1.5x their test depth. U-boats frequently exceeded their test depths (which were equivalent to US boats) by over twice.

[GakunGak]

The max gauge doesn't mean max depth.

In a post-war accident, the Balao class USS chopper survived a dive to 1011 feet. Certainly an extreme that you shouldn't experience in game, but Balaos - as indeed most subs - should be capable of exceeding 1.5x their test depth. U-boats frequently exceeded their test depths (which were equivalent to US boats) by over twice.
Her hull must be squeezed like a tin can...http://gakungak.jconserv.net/images/smiles/icon_muede37.gif

[Jimbow]

Originally Posted by btaft
Just out of curiosity, are the depth ratings published for the different classes or are we just supposed to take out chances. I didn't see them listed anywhere


Try this website for info on test depths

http://www.valoratsea.com/main.htm

[Chock]

Early war US subs are a bit of an oddity in terms of what depths they could get away with going to, and in spite of all the technical data and anecdotal evidence from those who were there, simulating it is still not as straightforward as it might seem.

We should bear in mind that many subs built before the outbreak of WW2 were almost certainly superior in hull integrity (if not advances), not having been rushed into service like those built later on a war footing, and American structural technology was almost always way above specification when it came to subs. Pretty much any sub can exceed what the shipyard guarantees (and it's not like you could go back to the shipyard and and complain about it if it didn't, so in most cases, we'll never really know what a sub could actually take, as this knowledge invariably goes to the grave)

On the other hand, there are quite a few stories about US commanders refusing to take out boats in poor condition at the start of US involvement in WW2, and something in poor condition may indeed have popped some welds at nowhere near its test depth. Commanders who risked complaining about this this include Dudley 'Mush' Morton, who didn't want to take the sub Dolphin (SS-169, launched 1932) out when he was assigned command of her in 1942, because of her poor condition. That protest apparently almost cost him his rank, until a squadron commander intervened, and instead he ended up assigned to the sub Wahoo (SS-238, launched 1942) and the rest is history. Nevertheless, Dolphin survived the war and sadly, Wahoo didn't, so maybe Mush didn't know everything.

Ultimately, we have to remember that in addition to being a simulation, SH4 is a game, and many decisions will have been taken to improve gameplay. We all know now that Jap destroyers were a bit crap early on in the war and until a US Senator inadvisably blabbed about the Japanese setting their depth charges too shallow (at a press conference), the Japs didn't know that US subs were easily avoiding a hammering by going fairly deep. Thus the Senator's comments cost a lot of US lives.
We too, have the benefit of this knowledge when we play WW2 sub games, so if the Japs in SH4 depth charged to historical standards, we'd have a cakewalk, and a less challenging experience.

Historical accuracy is one thing, but an enjoyable game/sim experience is not always happy to sit hand in hand with it. I daresay those who cry out for ultimate realism would be unprepared to not wash for three weeks, eat only tinned food and refuse to use accelerated time in their struggle to recreate 1942 - but nobody ever complains about that :D

[Meridian]

If you want to dive deeper than the Max 450 on the gauge just hit the "D" key and let her go. Took the Gato down to 600 feet this way and used the "A" key to level out.

And no, the "A" key doesn't cause a CTD on my system because I used the "A" key fix mod on this forum.

[MRV]

In some occasions, this is realistic, but must not happen to you any time ;-)

Subs, as most technical constructions, were designed with a calculated safety value by engineers. On US Subs, this value was 1,8. This means, a sub that was designed to dive 300 feet, was built like you want a max depth of about 500 feet. (It affected the thickness of the pressure hull)

On U-Boats, this value was even higher (note that the british were really surprised when they found out how deep a u-boat could dive) about 2,5. A VIIC was designed for a safe depth of 150 Meters. So it could.....with painful creaking and freaking out crew.....reach 300 Meters.

These max depths had never been relied on, for obvious reasons. Many subs were crushed at shallower depths than this calculated value...but some survived trips to even greater depths. Depended on the quality of the used material and the mood of the dock workers. ;)