Range Rings on PPI

[Front Runner]

Has anyone found a way to turn on the range rings on the radar PPI?

[flyingdane]

you can change the range with the buttons at the bottom of the radar station for both radars. ;)

[Front Runner]

you can change the range with the buttons at the bottom of the radar station for both radars. ;)

Yes, I know how to change the range, I'm just trying to activate the range rings, like in Neal's

Sweet!! I'm first! I :rock:

Radar pips turn into smilies when you hit the SH4 screen print keys, Ctrl F11

http://www.subsim.com/sh4/sh4_669.jpg


See, his PPI has Range Rings and bearing marks.
My PPI does not show range rings or bearing marks.

[Front Runner]

Anybody? Please?

[Onkel Neal]

Did you try clicking the big ugly grey knobs below the radar screen? I think that is what does it.

[Snuffy]

Rumor has it that it depends on the boat your using as to whether or not the radar and the sonar works.

At this time with both the S class and the Porpoise class I have not been able to get the radar to work with either.

[Jungman]

Yep, those early ships had no radar, so they are disabled. The 3D model does not reflect this fact. So the devs have it disabled for early years on those subs. IIRC They are there, but they really are not there.

[DiveMonkey]

I wish they could remove them from boats not equipped.

I need the storage space.

[simsurfer]

Did you try clicking the big ugly grey knobs below the radar screen? I think that is what does it.

Tried that, that isnt it, might be a option if you have theose filters activated.

[Von Hinten]

I wish they could remove them from boats not equipped.

I need the storage space.
LOL :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Snowman999]

Rumor has it that it depends on the boat your using as to whether or not the radar and the sonar works.

At this time with both the S class and the Porpoise class I have not been able to get the radar to work with either.

In a Tambor in 1944. PPI works, no range rings. Just a sweep on a green screen. Knobs below change a printed phrase on the screen from "Range: 80,000" to "Range: 40,000" (I think; they're pretty fuzzy). But no range rings or bearing marks.

[Jensen]

Rumor has it that it depends on the boat your using as to whether or not the radar and the sonar works.

At this time with both the S class and the Porpoise class I have not been able to get the radar to work with either.

In a Tambor in 1944. PPI works, no range rings. Just a sweep on a green screen. Knobs below change a printed phrase on the screen from "Range: 80,000" to "Range: 40,000" (I think; they're pretty fuzzy). But no range rings or bearing marks.

Bernard wiped them off.

[Front Runner]

Rumor has it that it depends on the boat your using as to whether or not the radar and the sonar works.

At this time with both the S class and the Porpoise class I have not been able to get the radar to work with either.

In a Tambor in 1944. PPI works, no range rings. Just a sweep on a green screen. Knobs below change a printed phrase on the screen from "Range: 80,000" to "Range: 40,000" (I think; they're pretty fuzzy). But no range rings or bearing marks.

From OP
I have the radar working, I have targets, I have range control (80,000/40,000/8,000) I have sweep. I DON'T have Range Rings as illustrated in the Neal Stevens graphic at the beginning of the thread where he has range rings and bearing marks. My radar just shows a green screen with contacts but no range rings and no bearing marks.
The question is has anyone found a way to activate the range rings and bearing marks?
Does everyone have this problem?
Does anyone have radar WITH range rings and bearings marks?
Why does Onkel Neal's Radar have bearing marks and range rings and mine does not?

I have not seen this particular issue addressed in the bug list but I may have missed it.

Any ideas or information greatly appreciated.

[Front Runner]

Did you try clicking the big ugly grey knobs below the radar screen? I think that is what does it.

Yes, I have tried that. They change the range and turn the sweep on and off but do not activated range rings and bearing marks.

[Hitman]

have the radar working, I have targets, I have range control (80,000/40,000/8,000) I have sweep. I DON'T have Range Rings as illustrated in the Neal Stevens graphic at the beginning of the thread where he has range rings and bearing marks. My radar just shows a green screen with contacts but no range rings and no bearing marks.
The question is has anyone found a way to activate the range rings and bearing marks?
Does everyone have this problem?
Does anyone have radar WITH range rings and bearings marks?
Why does Onkel Neal's Radar have bearing marks and range rings and mine does not?


This also happens to me and to many people. Apparently, the reason why Neal had range circles in the screenshots is that he did them with version 1.0 of the game. Patch 1.1 and 1.2 seem to have broken the range circles AFAIK. The dds graphic file is still there, in Data/Misc ("ppiCircles.dds"), but there is nothing in the 1024_Menu pointing to it. (Yet there also wasn't anything in the 1.0 menu, and yet it worked).

That's everything I know about this issue:hmm:

[Front Runner]

That's everything I know about this issue:hmm:

Thanks for the reply, now I don't feel so lonely...

[Redwine]

I was looking to bring back them and it is posible.

The problem is the radar PPI uses a 1/4 texture, wich is repited 4 times, so we cant wrote degrees on the boundary of rings. :shifty:

The second problem, is the program use this texture for SJ but for SD too.
We can change it, (i think so) calling for a "second" modified texture for SJ only. :up:

The third problem is, the texture is too small, and even drawing the circles with only 1 pixel wide, it looks very ugly :dead:

So i decide to do nothing, finished job is ugly...

Sadly i have not the original V1.0 files stored, may be there was the file for the screen posted by Neal.... and the calling for them into the 1024 ini file.

[mcoca]

The problem is the radar PPI uses a 1/4 texture, wich is repited 4 times, so we cant wrote degrees on the boundary of rings. :shifty:

The second problem, is the program use this texture for SJ but for SD too.
We can change it, (i think so) calling for a "second" modified texture for SJ only. :up:

The third problem is, the texture is too small, and even drawing the circles with only 1 pixel wide, it looks very ugly :dead:

I just did a quick test: you can make the radar.dds texture larger, and it will display perfectly. I made it 256x256 instead of 64x64, added the circles from ppiCircles.dds, and it works, although the numbers are, of course, wrong. As an interesting side effect, contacts are much smaller.

So, if someone knows how to make the other radar screen use a different texture, this can be mostly fixed.

[Hitman]

I just did a quick test: you can make the radar.dds texture larger, and it will display perfectly. I made it 256x256 instead of 64x64, added the circles from ppiCircles.dds, and it works, although the numbers are, of course, wrong. As an interesting side effect, contacts are much smaller.

Was about to suggest exactly that :up: In SH3 and SH2 you could add larger textures as long as you kept the proportions, f.e. 256x256 to 102x1024 and so on.:yep:

The problem is the radar PPI uses a 1/4 texture, wich is repited 4 times, so we cant wrote degrees on the boundary of rings. :shifty:

AFAIK real radars did not have numbering in the PPI screen, but anyway it is not important since all ranges are multiples of 4 (8000-40000-80000), so the range circles will have always a correct proportion, f.e. 2000/8000/20000 yards respectively.

The second problem, is the program use this texture for SJ but for SD too.
We can change it, (i think so) calling for a "second" modified texture for SJ only.

I don't look too much into the SD radar, what matters to me is knowing that there is an airplane nearby. I prefer playing with incorrect textures in the SD instead of having no range circles in the PPI. Though of course if it can be corrected, the better then.:up:

[Redwine]

The problem is the radar PPI uses a 1/4 texture, wich is repited 4 times, so we cant wrote degrees on the boundary of rings. :shifty:

The second problem, is the program use this texture for SJ but for SD too.
We can change it, (i think so) calling for a "second" modified texture for SJ only. :up:

The third problem is, the texture is too small, and even drawing the circles with only 1 pixel wide, it looks very ugly :dead:

I just did a quick test: you can make the radar.dds texture larger, and it will display perfectly. I made it 256x256 instead of 64x64, added the circles from ppiCircles.dds, and it works, although the numbers are, of course, wrong. As an interesting side effect, contacts are much smaller.

So, if someone knows how to make the other radar screen use a different texture, this can be mostly fixed.

Yes i do that, but still problems, they appears into the SJ too...
Then we need to cal for a second texture.

But radar.tga doesnt appears into 1024 ini.... :hmm:

[Redwine]

I just did a quick test: you can make the radar.dds texture larger, and it will display perfectly. I made it 256x256 instead of 64x64, added the circles from ppiCircles.dds, and it works, although the numbers are, of course, wrong. As an interesting side effect, contacts are much smaller.
Was about to suggest exactly that :up: In SH3 and SH2 you could add larger textures as long as you kept the proportions, f.e. 256x256 to 102x1024 and so on.:yep:

I tested that, it works, but imposible to found into 1024 ini for to call for a second texture.

Circles will apperas into SD radar and looks very bad.

The problem is the radar PPI uses a 1/4 texture, wich is repited 4 times, so we cant wrote degrees on the boundary of rings. :shifty:
AFAIK real radars did not have numbering in the PPI screen, but anyway it is not important since all ranges are multiples of 4 (8000-40000-80000), so the range circles will have always a correct proportion, f.e. 2000/8000/20000 yards respectively.

I was talking abour the degrees, 090, 180, 270, 000, and intermediates values.

The second problem, is the program use this texture for SJ but for SD too.
We can change it, (i think so) calling for a "second" modified texture for SJ only.
I don't look too much into the SD radar, what matters to me is knowing that there is an airplane nearby. I prefer playing with incorrect textures in the SD instead of having no range circles in the PPI. Though of course if it can be corrected, the better then.:up:

Circles into SD looks very bad, Hitman...

Sadly i erase all the job, to the recicle bin...

[mcoca]

I tested that, it works, but imposible to found into 1024 ini for to call for a second texture.


There is no reference at all to the radar textures in any file in the Data directory, unless it's a compressed file or something like that.

However, it appears the textures to be used by the radar are referenced in SHControllers.act in the main SH4 dir. The PPICircles.dds file appears there. If someone has the 1.0 file, maybe a comparation would show how to make it be used.

But I don't really know what an .act file is (it appears to be some sort of executable), so I don't know if it's possible to change it.

(Should this discussion be moved to the mods forum?)

[Front Runner]

I tested that, it works, but imposible to found into 1024 ini for to call for a second texture.



(Should this discussion be moved to the mods forum?)

I originally posted it as a question. I thought that I was missing a switch or key somewhere that was undocumented. I didn't realize that the problem is much deeper, so IMHO, moving to the MOD folder would be fine with me.

[akdavis]

What are y'all talking about things appearing "in the SD radar?" The two displays are not two different types of radar, they are two different ways of displaying surface search radar. If your boat has only SD radar, neither display will function. If your boat has only SJ radar, both will function.

The one on the left is the A-scope display. This was the correct display for SJ radar for most of the war. The one on the right is Plan Position Indicator (PPI) display, which was only availabe with later versions of SJ surface search radar and SV air search radar. Unfortunately, in the game you get PPI display as soon as you equip your boat with SJ radar.

Other problems:

1. SD radar should have a separate A-scope type display, but one that shows only range and cannot be rotated to show a contact on a particular bearing.

2. If your boat is equipped with both SD radar and SJ radar, SD aerial contacts should not be showing up on the SJ radar displays.

3. The tooltip descriptions on the command bar shortcuts are reversed, causing much confusion.

[Snowman999]

Did you try clicking the big ugly grey knobs below the radar screen? I think that is what does it.

I tried that, nothing. My PPI has the word "Range" in green on the scope face with a number, either 40,000 or 80,000, like this Range: 40,000.

Clicking the button changes the numeral from 40,000 to 80,000 but does not show range rings.

[akdavis]

I don't think the actual displays had range rings anyways. Contacts actually appear as arcs on an early PPI display, and concentric rings might interfere with recognition of a contact. You use the A-scope for a more accurate ranging to target.

Here is an image of an early PPI display. No rings, but there is a heading and bearing overlay:
http://www.nrl.navy.mil/Systems/images/ppi2.jpg

Here is another image of a WWII U.S. Navy PPI display. It is showing a large area of interference, but it does demonstrate the basic appearance:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/img/fig3-38.jpg

A-Scope in diagram form:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/img/fig1-33.jpg

Comparison of various CRT displays:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/img/fig1-40.jpg

[Redwine]

Many thanks for info AkaDavis...

Understand that the way to take precise range was the A-Scope.

Any way, may be some body may want the circles on the PPI, i dont miss them too much, but taste is taste, but i can found a solution for that.

We need to found where the program stablish the command to pick-up the texture, because we need two diferent textures, one for A-Scope presentation, the actual one, and a new one for PPI 360 Azimutal presentation, sadly it is not into 1024 ini :hmm:

[Hitman]

The problem for me is not the lack of range circles, but instead the lack of specific information about the exact range to target! In SH1 you had a numbers-display telling you the precise range to the detected contact. But in SH4 you don't have it, (You have the A-Scope scale, but it is not very precise) so for me the range circles are an orientation of a precise range, which I use to plot the target's course. That's the real reason why I want them, not just the fancy look :hmm:

[akdavis]

Obviously radar should have the same functionality as sonar as far as finding a range to a target and sending a range or bearing to the TDC.

[don1reed]

Here's my work-around. These are the tools I use:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6233/radartoolslw8.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radartoolslw8.jpg)

The dividers are home-made (wooden to protect display face.)
The Rapid Plotter is from D/L from Pacific Thunder campaign, by Kim Ronhoff.
and a 12" - 30cm combo scale.

I'm using a Sargo in Dec '43 and both the ppi and A-scope work without rings or compass increment.

On my display the diameter of the ppi scope face measures 5cm. radius = 2.5 cm.

Use ratio & proportion to determine distance.

On the 40,000 ppi screen I measure from the center of the target blip to the center of the ppi screen as 1.6 cm, therefore,

2.5 : 40000 : : 1.6 : 25600

I hold the Rapid Plotter compass against the ppi screen to obtain Bearing.

I record the plot per Ronhoff's instructions, (they come with D/L). Later I check my ppi range with that on the A-Scope to confirm my results.

It works.

Just because SH1 had it doesn't mean that it was WWII authentic. Early radar was not an exact science...it was close enough for Govt work.