Legion's Noob Guide

[legion78]

I created this HQ vid for all the "Casual Gamers" who are new to the SH scene and should be treated as such...enjoy.

Screenies:
http://img137.imagevenue.com/loc251/th_67960_sh4_122_251lo.jpg (http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67960_sh4_122_251lo.jpg)

Download Link:

http://files.filefront.com/Legions_SH4_Noob_Guidewmv/;7207835;/fileinfo.html

[Sagan]

Wait what?

downloading

[Sagan]

I just watched it. Pretty helpfull. I laughed at your reasoning when you said why you had to use 2 torpedos instead of one.

GJ

[Tigrone]

That is a great introduction to the game and suppliments Neal's TDC video. This is very helpful for anyone looking at SH4 for the first time, even veteran players of SH3 and sims. I liked it a lot.:up:

[melin71]

great video...daaaam great...i have played SH3 many years...and never understod how to use all those tools =) this is not only for noobs...me how have used weapons officer all my silent hunter life is this video great. I want a new video from you =) with manual targeting. dont get me wrong Neals are great..but many thing like AOB, speed are just guss...how to realy get those numbers right?...again..great video:up:

[Von Hinten]

Oh, this is great. Thanks for putting this together. Well done. :up:

[WhiskeyBravo]

Great video for a noob like me. It was good to see how the plotting chart was used to set up the attack. I'm getting pretty good with manual targetting but the map plotting was a bit of a mystery to me - until now! :)

A couple of questions if I may?

1. Presumably for the ship contact to show on the map you have to have that option enabled in the difficulty settings? (I'm a full real (hard?) setting fan but I may have to drop the settings down a bit to get these plots as this appears a little more realistic ie having someone doing the plotting for you)

2. How do you get the large protractor around your sub giving angles and ranges?

3. Some of the sounds were different than my game - are you using a sound mod?

Thanks again,

WB.

[Faamecanic]

Very Nice :up:

[theknuck]

d/l now. i'm sure it will assist me in my new adventures at sea. should put all tutorial vids in the same sticky folder.

[legion78]

This is the mod list that I am currently using, note that all of these were obtained right here at subsim.com in either the download page or in the Mod channel of the forums. All are stackable and can be applied in any order except for the stealthy sub and ultimate sound pack. Ultimate needs to be installed first followed by the latter.

Mod List

360_Bearing_Plotter_Imperial
Brighter_Torpedo_Wakes
Captain_Midnights_CBS_Radio
jimimadrids_Shinyborder_hud
Kosh_Stealthy_Sub_v1.01
Navmap_mod_for_SH4_v1_1
ParaB_tweaked_air_strikes
SH4_UltimateSoundPack
SH4_Ultimate_Soundmod_Fix
Torpedo damage 1.5x

[rizZO_77]

wonderful video. Very clear and informative. The map plotting shouldnt be a problem for new players anymore.

Would love to see you do a TDC video like this in the future. Neal has done an impressive job, but not as "instructional" as your contribution. (also at night so it could be more clear imho)

Having watched that video i still havent grasped setting up manually (wich i'd love to learn someday, especially with the brilliant graphics sh4 has).

[Thermocline]

Cheers Legion for that - we need more tutorials on the basics such as that. Really makes a difference to the New guys (such as myself). Awesome first torp - right in the BreadBasket as you said. Useful tip that, checking the draft and setting depth accordingly. Great Work :cool:

Should be a sticky for vid-tutorials :rock:

[legion78]

Thanx for the comments guys, we were all begginners at one time and I'm glad I could help some peoples out.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That was nothing less than fantastic. Played SHIII since the 1st day it got released. Officially removed it 2 days after SH-4 was installed here. You taught me a few things I never knew - so I would not call this a Noob-tube film.

No disrespect to the other gentleman [Neal?], but if you can give a step-by-step tutorial on manual targeting in the presentation style of this video, you are going to have people by the 1,000's thanking you.

Off topic - in the mod forums, have added selective mods and those mods have taken all the "sour grapes" attitude I use to have. The game is VERY playable. Thanks goes to that crowd, too!

Thumbs up - Great job!

[Monica Lewinsky]

Gave this GREAT flick a BUMP.

Too many new captains reporting in for duty here. Look at the FIRST post in the thread!

Don't want the download wait?

I am hosting it here. Great flick for those just joining us.

http://dontcamp.com/~deputy/nobackup...noob_guide.wmv (http://dontcamp.com/~deputy/nobackup/Monica/sh4_noob_guide.wmv)

[Chock]

Bumping this for the benefit of new visitors to subsim, hopefully it will get a sticky and a flag on the main page.

Nice. :up:

[Subsim Monitor]

Great job, done! (http://www.subsim.com/index.php) :up:

You're from New York, right? Great counterpoint to my Texas drawl :yep:

Neal


.

[greekfire]

I'm downloading now. I must admit this is long overdue and a very nice addition to this community. I've spent a week tearing apart all the sub sim forums looking for noob tutorials and videos. They aren't as common as you would think, excluding SHIII stuff. Of course, its a brand new game so can't expect things to happen overnight. Anyway, thank you for your contribution to this game and community.

I am starting to agree that map plot settings should still be viewed as 100% realism. The fact that we can not pause game to use in-game navmap or account for the fact that, in reality, there would be many other people with you in that sub to help you with all the multi-tasking sort of necessitates the need for some help. Although there may come a point in time where I am fast enough to actually complete all that is required to manually plot and target multiple ships in a convoy, at this point I tend to find that I run out of time and have to "wing" a lot of the numbers at the last minute so that I on periscope and ready when the ship/ships come into my target area.

According to this sim, it is only 100% realism if we do everything ourselves. But the true reality is that no real sub captian would be capable of doing all of this on his own in real time.

My current solution to this delimma is not automatic ship plotting in nav map. Instead I am hitting the pause button while I work calculations and plots outside of the game using a graph paper with ruler, compass, etc. Personally I think its the most fun and rewarding solution but some might find it "cheating" because I hit pause button. It's a tough call but I like doing it by hand and that in my opinion is about as real as its going to get.

[USS_shipmaster]

Great videos, great job. Thanks
VK

[Iceman87]

Fantastic video Legion! Kudos to you for helping out your fellow gamer.

[xptical]

I really hate searching for mods here. A lot of the mods are really hard to find. Here are the ones I found:

Torps +25%
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111785

Air Strike
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109586&highlight=strike

Retro Nav Map
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109170&highlight=Navmap

Hud:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108965

Brighter Torps:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110987&highlight=brighter+torp

360 Bearing Tool:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108555&highlight=bearing

The bearing tool does not work for me. The loading bar never progresses if this mod is enabled.


The other mods you listed just seem to be "fluf". YMMV.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice idea, good work:up::up:

[hachiman]

Brillaint Video Legion especially all the stuff on the map plotting an intercept.
Bravo sir!! :yep:

[SteamWake]

Great job, done! (http://www.subsim.com/index.php) :up:

You're from New York, right? Great counterpoint to my Texas drawl :yep:

Neal


.

I noticed that this isnt listed in Guides and Trainings: TDC, Radar, Sonar and More (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931).

Any chance of getting it there as well ?

Thanks

[D'biter]

awsome vid

[robbierob2005]

Very good video. I think it's great for those who's first subsim is SH4.

[rhohltjr]

I created this HQ vid for all the "Casual Gamers" who are new to the SH scene and should be treated as such...enjoy.


I certainly appreciate your work on this video. My last sub sim was (point N shoot)Silent Service, I think for my SH noobieness you could have spent all 20 minutes just explaining the plotting board what and why you were doing what you were doing(drawing circles and lines and such):know: . If you would care to do such a plotting board tutorial, keep in mind that I think I pretty much already understand the eraser part:rotfl: .

Anyone out there care to try to explain the crew management screen:o ? Videos welcome! Thanks in advance.

[Carve]

Legion!!!

Many thanks just what I was looking for. Any chance of any noob guides on manual TDC?

[MDykas]

Very cool video, I learned a few things, I'd love to see one on how to avoid detection and getting away from those Destroyers.

[Sir Big Jugs]

Very cool video, but unbelievably large!

Converting it to .avi with the Divx MPEG-4 codec and compressing it using 7z I managed to get it to 42.5mb with no visible quality loss.

[oritpro]

Nice work and thanks for taking the time to do this :up:

[Thrak]

thanks for the great vid..very helpful to me as a beginner :up:

(a lot of great links too thx to all)

[Easy Tiger]

Thanks dude.... another noob you've helped out here :yep:

Would be awesome if you could do some more... :)

[bursco]

Anyone know why I cannot access filefront - just comes up with blank page, cannot d/l any mods etc.

have 2 computers and both go thro a netgear router - both do same ??

Thanks in advance

[bursco]

Sorry to have bothered u - my other computer has decided to access filefront - still do not know why but can now d/l etc.

[Snakeeyes]

Great job Legion!

Like it's been said, I'm no noob but it's refreshing to see your technique. I like the range markers you added perpendicular to the target's course... going to use that... NOT THAT I NEED THEM OR ANYTHING! :lol: :shifty: :oops:

I like how you like to blow **** up. Welcome to the club.

I smell a former nuke sailor like me. That could be a little confusing to noobs who are used to nukes. Overall, there were no seeker head torps in WWII in high proliferation but I'm sure you knew that already. Not a criticism here man, just something that could give a noob a hard time.

Great job!

[Liszt_]

Great video!~

Now lets get a veterans video w/ attack plotting w/o the use of the "show map contacts" w manual targetting as the bonus material :up:

[ridgewayranger]

Hi,
With what do I open this file? All I get is a screenful of hieroglyphics!
R.R.

[Sir Big Jugs]

Hi,
With what do I open this file? All I get is a screenful of hieroglyphics!
R.R.
Click below:
http://static.filefront.com/ffv6/graphics/b_download_still.gif (http://dodownload.filefront.com/7207835//cddc0e456293b6e0c06d1b61c3aca48e5b9bc38c604f02086f bc256e14d180dad8e7ba03746b353e).
Once it's downloaded (will take some time, it's 225mb) you just double click, it'll open in Windows Media Player.

[Elphaba]

Thank you very much for taking the time to record this and go thru all your reasons behind your tactics.

I had to laugh out loud at the "...I like blowing **** up..." line... :up:


Would you consider doing one for a Convoy attack? Esp a timed attack so torpedos for different ships at different ranges hit at the same time?

Thank you again.

Elphaba

[cowboys98]

great job on the video,is theres any way you can make a tutorial video in 100% realism,tdc video.

[Capt. O]

That told me more about SH4 than the manual ever did. Thanks for the great video from a very noob user. Now on to some serious tonnage sunk.

CO

[Limerick]

legion78.,.....great vid.....
I took the liberty of posting a link at Ubi's site. This will really help those unfamiliar with subs.

BBQ and beer on their way to you FED-EX overnight.

[MaxT.dk]

Just watched the video, pretty nice! I'm sure it'll be usefull to many! :) :up:

[HEMISENT]

I've tried numerous times over the past couple weeks now to dl this and Filefront just won't work for me. Is this video available anywhere else?
The manual is beyond worthless and this vid has great reviews.

[Captain Jake]

Thanks man!
Now I can get on to setting up shots instead of taking them.

Thanks again!

Cap'n Jake

[CaptRari]

What a Fantastic learning tool! :know: i've been chasing my own tail trying to learn how to play this game.Your video is must have for all young mate's out there.Thank you for your time and effort helping us get our feet wet!:arrgh!:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Welcome:up: Captain Jake & CaptRari

RDP

[ReallyDedPoet]

Welcome:up: Capt. O

RDP

[Bazmondo]

Hi

I have just installed SH4 and its looking very nice on my set up.

Wanted to watch the video for noobs but fliefactory is giving an error message saying something like I dont have permisions from the server error 1.1.403

Not had this problem dl'ing before so can someone confirm if the link is still ok? If there is anywhere else I can download the vid? or advise what/why I am getting this error?

Thanks

Baz

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hi

I have just installed SH4 and its looking very nice on my set up.

Wanted to watch the video for noobs but fliefactory is giving an error message saying something like I dont have permisions from the server error 1.1.403

Not had this problem dl'ing before so can someone confirm if the link is still ok? If there is anywhere else I can download the vid? or advise what/why I am getting this error?

Thanks

Baz

Welcome to SUBSIM :up: Bazmondo

Just tried the link, worked fine on this end. Give it a few minutes and try again.


RDP

[Krauter]

Awesome vid, loving the excuse for two torpedoes:rotfl:
Happy Hunting

Krauter

[ktrboston]

Great video, right in the old bread basket. Love that one. Also like to see Sh*&* blow up. I with you on that one.

[Bazmondo]

Thanks RDP.

It was a problem with Internat Download Manager. Sorted now and downloading as I type.

Cheers

Baz:lol:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks RDP.

It was a problem with Internat Download Manager. Sorted now and downloading as I type.

Cheers

Baz:lol:

Glad it worked out for you .


RDP

[Krauter]

Awesome Vid!, its sure to help bringing some nip cargo down on the first and last plunge to the bottom:up:

With Regards,

Krauter

[Cooter1966]

Great tutorial Legion, thats definately going to come in handy.

[raider862001]

Love the video, it was great. Good Job

[ReallyDedPoet]

Love the video, it was great. Good Job

Welcome to SUBSIM :up: raider862001


RDP

[SteamWake]

Love the video, it was great. Good Job

yea welcome to the forums raider...

Im curious how you found this thread ? Its been dormant for months.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Love the video, it was great. Good Job
yea welcome to the forums raider...

Im curious how you found this thread ? Its been dormant for months.
It is part of the guides sticky SW. Here:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931


RDP

[SteamWake]

Love the video, it was great. Good Job
yea welcome to the forums raider...

Im curious how you found this thread ? Its been dormant for months.
It is part of the guides sticky SW. Here:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931


RDP

I know that :p It's also tagged if you google subsim. I was just wondering how radier got here. If he used one of those links or just stumbled into it.

[Bathrone]

Thanks very much Legion.

Im having problems doing the map work with the tools. For example while trying to plot the corridor for where I can find the enemy I find it hard to get the bearing from the tail of the contact report and then accurately put that into a probability corridor.

Is there a more detailed guide of the map tools?

Also I noticed you were able to move a waypoint thats not the last one? How do you do this Ive been forced into deleting all my future way points to get to the one I want to change.

Sorry to ask basic questions, the guide is great :know:

[Michiboot]

just bought the game couple of days ago. i haven't watched this video yet, but am downloading as i type this. i'm sure its gonna be very helpful. thanks for making the effort to help us newbies.:rock:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Welcome to SUBSIM :up: Michiboot


RDP

[neon_black88]

Sunk my first 3 merchants thanks to this video :rock:. Thanks alot hope to see more some day!

[Sub146]

Thanks for taking the time to do this video , 2 day old commander here so this will be very usefull to me. :yep:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Welcome to SUBSIM :up: Sub146


RDP

[Dahoon]

Great video! Thx :up:

[Slick Wilhelm]

Legion,

Many thanks for this video. I learned more about the map tools from your video than from any other source. The two specific things that caught my eye were the drawing out of the potential area for the course, and the range lines from the target's course so that you know when you're 800 yds from the target. Simply brilliant! :|\\

I still have a lot to learn to get used to the nav map tools, but this helps!

[Covak]

Thanks so much for this video, Legion! :) Really helped me get started.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Damn good video since 21,700+ viewers seemed to look at it, once?

[arissona]

That was awesome and informative.

[Mr.O'Bannon]

Great tutorial. It helps alot.

[Harleyman]

WOW That was a fantastic video......


I have been wondering about all the plotting and tracking and reading but getting nowhere with it really...I failed my first in game torpedo shot....I had no clue what I was doing.......


Its to bad there is not tool tips for this sim in learning mode........


But your vid has opened many doors already..Thanks for all the info and your brilliant work on it....

[jbd_3_1]

legion this is a great video very nicely done. i am very new to sh4 and this video will help tremendously

[BObB]

Thanks Legion78. The vidoe was fantastic. Watching the action unfold "realtime" beats reading about the attack process in a manual.

I noticed that your second shot, while adjusted for degree spread, was launched without adjusting the torpedo to the same depth as your first shot. Was that by design? Were you anticpating a lower hull because of the impact of the first torpedo?

Thanks for your time.

BobB

[Breakerchase]

Link seems to be dead, anyone else have a mirror?

[SgtPotato]

Can Legion make this video subtitled? I'm deaf and subtitles will be nice.

[JonB]

Yeah, I cant find the download either. I know it´s originally an old thread but it would be nice to see it anyway.

Thanks in advance:salute:

[Radox]

Great vid :)

[irish1958]

Link appears dead.

"File is Unavailable.


The file you are attempting to download is not currently available on our servers or is being processed. Please try your download in a few minutes."

[Radox]

right click 'save target as' the link on post #15 of this thread

[rsvette12]

Super thank you so much :up:

Regards, Rich

[Terry13]

when you click on the link it takes you to another website and tells you "file not found"

[MrBledsoe]

I can't seem to get to this download. I get redirected to gamefront.:hmmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

Legion's Noob Guide lives! I have a copy safe and sound on my You Tube page. Let's see if there's a way to embed the video. Testing.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3J6BNe2fI

I guess not but there's the link. The technique is a bit primitive but you have to remember that this was when SH4 was young and this video started all the purposeful explorations in how to make the game work very well.

[Gryffon300]

Legion's Noob Guide lives! I have a copy safe and sound on my You Tube page. Let's see if there's a way to embed the video. Testing.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3J6BNe2fI

I guess not but there's the link. The technique is a bit primitive but you have to remember that this was when SH4 was young and this video started all the purposeful explorations in how to make the game work very well.

Thank you, Robin, that Rocks. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.) Some good reminders, even for old hands, but great stuff for noobs. It was looking like this was lost to us, so thanks for resurrecting it.

One thing I typically do in prep, is to open ALL the doors that I expect to use (click on the tube, hit 'Q', then select the next tube and repeat). In the same process, I also individually select the speed setting I want for each fish. The TDC seems to 'remember' these settings as I go back to selecting the first tube. What I find strange, though, is that it doesn't seem to be able to remember individualised depth or spread settings, which is a shame. If you could pre-set every criterion for each fish in advance, you could get all your fish away in record time, for say, a fast-transiting battle ship where you want to visit destruction all along it's hull from your entire load.

A couple of times, if one has been at or below 20 knots, I have managed to get one by getting all fish away from both FORWARD AND AFT tubes, by selecting 'slow' on the forward tubes at about 2,500 (with spread, if I'm quick enough and she is slow enough), then turning for a set of 'fast' from the stern (so all fish arrive at about the same time - she doesn't have time to evade the next set that way. (For noobs, if she is steaming left-to-right, as in this tutorial, always turn to port - so you are not trying to 'chase' him with your turn - you'll see what I mean.)

Anywho. Thanks again for keeping this for us all. :rock:

Tight Hatches

Gryff

[TorpX]

What I find strange, though, is that it doesn't seem to be able to remember individualised depth or spread settings, which is a shame. If you could pre-set every criterion for each fish in advance, you could get all your fish away in record time, for say, a fast-transiting battle ship where you want to visit destruction all along it's hull from your entire load.


Gryff
I agree. Unfortunately, no one seems to know how to do this.

[HertogJan]

If I recall correct... (haven't played the game for some time) firing torpedoes close together will cause premature detonations.

I've read somewhere firing torpedoes 5sec apart lessens premature detonations.

[TorpX]

From what I've read, most USN crews used an interval of 8 to 10 seconds.

I don't think Gryffon300 was trying for super quick launchings; but rather not having to fiddle and funble with game dials, in between torps. If you try to fire a spread of four torps, while having to change the depth and offset dials for each one, how long would this take? Maybe 35 or 40 sec., or more? Rather a long time to finish your spread. If you had the dials pre-set, you could use a 8 sec. interval, and be done in 24 sec.

[Gryffon300]

From what I've read, most USN crews used an interval of 8 to 10 seconds.

I don't think Gryffon300 was trying for super quick launchings; but rather not having to fiddle and funble with game dials, in between torps. If you try to fire a spread of four torps, while having to change the depth and offset dials for each one, how long would this take? Maybe 35 or 40 sec., or more? Rather a long time to finish your spread. If you had the dials pre-set, you could use a 8 sec. interval, and be done in 24 sec.


Precisely, my friend. I couldn't see why the controller will accept SOME individual tube pre-sets on the TDC (like speed and contact/magnetic), but not others (like depth or spread off-set).

[Rockin Robbins]

Precisely, my friend. I couldn't see why the controller will accept SOME individual tube pre-sets on the TDC (like speed and contact/magnetic), but not others (like depth or spread off-set).
Actually in this regard our TDC works like the original and they had the same limitation. To fix it would be to make the game less realistic.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hey RR, nice to see you here : )

[Gryffon300]

Actually in this regard our TDC works like the original and they had the same limitation. To fix it would be to make the game less realistic.

Then, enough said. Thanks for the info. (I always have these nagging doubts about whether something is working as intended.):up:

Of course, you know that it's lazy bastards like me that drive all invention, because we define "necessity" as anything that will make our lives less rushed or stressful, which is why our COBs sometimes refer to us as "Mothers". (This is the origin of the famous saying.) We like to find ways of doing things that gets the job done, but without mess, yelling, confusion or grease (elbow, or otherwise).

TH

Gryff

[TorpX]

I don't agree that fixing the limitation of the TDC would make it less realistic. The TDC itself may not have been able to preset torps, but I'm sure USN crews had a better system than, stess-filled, last minute fiddling, with a hard to turn, torpedo offset dial.

PT torpedoes had preset spreads, S-boats would have pre-set the torp angles, so I'm sure the more modern fleetboats, had a system at least as good.

[Gryffon300]

I don't agree that fixing the limitation of the TDC would make it less realistic. The TDC itself may not have been able to preset torps, but I'm sure USN crews had a better system than, stess-filled, last minute fiddling, with a hard to turn, torpedo offset dial.

PT torpedoes had preset spreads, S-boats would have pre-set the torp angles, so I'm sure the more modern fleetboats, had a system at least as good.


Well, my friend, certainly if WE had control of the design team it would have been sorted as one of the functional criteria in the design brief! I certainly would have expected that a modern FB would have had the capability to pre-set all the criteria for a salvo.

You've peaked my curiosity now - given some time I think it would be worth finding out the development time-line to establish when changes and enhancements were made.:hmmm:

TH

Gryff

[TorpX]

Well, my friend, certainly if WE had control of the design team it would have been sorted as one of the functional criteria in the design brief!
Yeah, you got that right! It is one of those little things that annoyed me from early on. Honestly, I thought someone would have figured out a fix by now.

There were different models of TDC, and perhaps the later models had a better system in this regard. I am not 100% sure the TDC itself did the task, but I am sure they had a way to do it. Allowing last minute delays for this reason would have been unacceptable. The TDC's whole reason for existance, was to speed up the calculations for an attack. The Mk VIII angle solver, and associated math, could calculate the necessary values for an attack, but it was judged to be too slow to keep up with a rapidly changing situation.
Having a TDC, without the ability to rapidly set a gyro angle spread, would be like having a sword, forged from the finest steel, but with a blunt edge. Much of it's potential would be wasted.

[Gryffon300]

Yeah, you got that right! It is one of those little things that annoyed me from early on. Honestly, I thought someone would have figured out a fix by now.

There were different models of TDC, and perhaps the later models had a better system in this regard. I am not 100% sure the TDC itself did the task, but I am sure they had a way to do it. Allowing last minute delays for this reason would have been unacceptable. The TDC's whole reason for existance, was to speed up the calculations for an attack. The Mk VIII angle solver, and associated math, could calculate the necessary values for an attack, but it was judged to be too slow to keep up with a rapidly changing situation.
Having a TDC, without the ability to rapidly set a gyro angle spread, would be like having a sword, forged from the finest steel, but with a blunt edge. Much of it's potential would be wasted.




Hear, hear!:up:

G

[TorpX]

I was skimming through some documents about the TDC and found both pictures and written material related to dials and cranks for inputting target length into the TDC. I thought this was the case, but wanted to check my memory. Anyway, I don't know the details of the proceedure used, but I don't see any use for target length apart from computations related to the spread angle.

Incidently, the german KM also had provision for input of target length.

[BigWalleye]

Unfortunately, game (and mod) designers, since they can not simulate the stress of combat with a computer game, like to substitute a high workload. So the game-playing "skipper" playing at the highest "realism" setting has to do fiddling tasks R/L skippers did not do, make decisions that R/L skippers left to their crews, and basically do busy work to provide enough distraction. This is supposed to make the game "more realistic." YMMV.

To my knowledge, the Approach Officer never touched the TDC, although he might look at the solution. "Range mark. Bearing mark. AoB port 60." SH3's notepad more closely approximates the Approach Officer's tasks than hand-cranking data into the TDC. Of course, using a voice command system like SH4speech lets the skipper focus on looking through the scope, where the Approach Officer belongs.

[Rockin Robbins]

It gets worse. They could do many things we can't because we're all alone on these pretend submarines made of electrons and photons emitted by flat screen displays. You can't achieve realism by modeling a sub with a crew of one. You also can't achieve realism by changing the mechanics of the TDC. Heads we lose, tails nobody wins.

[Gryffon300]

Unfortunately, game (and mod) designers, since they can not simulate the stress of combat with a computer game, like to substitute a high workload. So the game-playing "skipper" playing at the highest "realism" setting has to do fiddling tasks R/L skippers did not do, make decisions that R/L skippers left to their crews, and basically do busy work to provide enough distraction. This is supposed to make the game "more realistic." YMMV.

To my knowledge, the Approach Officer never touched the TDC, although he might look at the solution. "Range mark. Bearing mark. AoB port 60." SH3's notepad more closely approximates the Approach Officer's tasks than hand-cranking data into the TDC. Of course, using a voice command system like SH4speech lets the skipper focus on looking through the scope, where the Approach Officer belongs.
Now there is a thought... I've been a bit reluctant to use voice command though, as I use ear buds so as not to annoy the neighbours, I've been thinking that letting them see and hear me yelling at my computer screen would only confirm their suspicions about me.... But, what the Hell, no harm in confirming what they already 'know' - I might just give it a try.

Gryff

[Gryffon300]

It gets worse. They could do many things we can't because we're all alone on these pretend submarines made of electrons and photons emitted by flat screen displays. You can't achieve realism by modeling a sub with a crew of one. You also can't achieve realism by changing the mechanics of the TDC. Heads we lose, tails nobody wins.
It's OK RR, I can suspend disbelief with the best of them, but some things look like unintentional game or mod 'misses' or bugs, but others could be intentional design: and I'm trying to spot the difference.

For example, in MY set-up (I allow for the possibility of a buggy install) on the TDC, the 'w' key cycles the torp tubes, but for the FORWARD tubes only, so you can open the forward doors by alternate 'q', then 'w' keystrokes, but for the rear tubes, you have to alternate between mouse and 'q' keys. Then, it gets even worse. To set all fish to high speed, you can leave the mouse pointer on the speed selector, then just 'q' and left-click to cycle through and set all fish to 'fast' for the forward tubes, but, for the rear tubes, you have to run the mouse pointer from the tube selector on the far right bottom of screen across to the speed selector at the top left for each tube in turn. Pain in the butt, but is it just my install, or native to the game, or a mod-induced 'bug'? Does my head in.

It got even better tonight. A new 'bug' (or a modder with a seriously twisted sense of humour) got me big time with the most anti-immersive 'tick' yet. I loaded the highly praised 'Longer Sinking Times for TMO v2'. I caught an FC with 4 trailing escorts, saved, then waited while he came to me at the perfect spot at 700 yds and put three into the wee beastie. The mod DID slow down the sinking (by a couple of minutes) BUT, the effect was ruined by the dozen life rafts that were trying to imitate Mexican jumping beans! They were jumping and spinning on the waves higher than the length of the carrier (going off the screen at the top of their trajectory). It went from the sublime to the ridiculous with a few of them still bouncing away about 2 miles away 10 minutes later. Now tell me that THAT isn't weird!

Always interesting..

And another thing! I keep upgrading the deck-gun (I've now got the short barrel 25 cal on a new Balao - it seemed to be an improvement - on paper) AND I've now upgraded to an Ace Deck-gun crew (including a 'Tin can Crossover' gunnery specialist). BUT, nothing I have ever done on successive boats since day one has EVER improved the gunnery competence of my crew - if they ever get better than 1 in 4 shots on target at 4,000 yds, I've yet to see it (even in calm seas, with us stationary and the target at 4 knots!). (I get over 80% manually - and it would be even better if there was a practical way of getting range updates!) What's the point of spending all that Renown if it doesn't improve performance? Or is the game/mod misbehaving? I'm not obsessing about all this, but I do wonder....:hmm2:

Gryff

[in_vino_vomitus]

I've seen the bouncing liferaft, it's amusing, but as you say, a little too surreal.

If you're using TMO then the "E" key cycles the rear tubes, I seem to recall swearing a bit before I found that out :)

[Gryffon300]

If you're using TMO then the "E" key cycles the rear tubes, I seem to recall swearing a bit before I found that out :)

Outstanding! Thanks for the intel. (But, it begs the question, "WHY?" Last I counted, 7 comes after 6 on the Torpedo Fire Control, so why should a different 'selector' key be needed to continue a sequence on THE SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT?! Eh? Answer me that! {Armscrossed, tapping foot smilie})
Cheers
Gryff

[BigWalleye]

I've been thinking that letting them see and hear me yelling at my computer screen would only confirm their suspicions about me.... But, what the Hell, no harm in confirming what they already 'know' - I might just give it a try.

Gryff

Gryff, no need to yell. Turn up the gain on the mic channel and you can whisper. You want the crew to do all the yelling, while you do your best Mush Morton with a calm, cool drawl. Since there is nothing at stake but (at worst) a "Ded iz ded" career restart, it's easy to do, and earns lots of self-awarded macho points. :D Works for me!

[Gryffon300]

Gryff, no need to yell. Turn up the gain on the mic channel and you can whisper. You want the crew to do all the yelling, while you do your best Mush Morton with a calm, cool drawl. Since there is nothing at stake but (at worst) a "Ded iz ded" career restart, it's easy to do, and earns lots of self-awarded macho points. :D Works for me!

It may be even worse: "See, Maude? He's talking to himself again!"

But, what the heck? That's it then. Where do I sign up! I'll get this baby cranking. I'll be fascinated to see the level of fine control achievable (like when going after a surface target with the gun that is crossing my bows, I'll put on one or two degrees of rudder and order the Engines to make precise revolutions so that the BOAT pretty well tracks constant angle to the target. No fiddling with transiting the gun (control + arrows still too coarse for fine adjust anyway.)

I've told you before that I'm a lazy bastard. This way, I can sit on my banana chair and pull the firing lanyard while sipping on my mai tai (problem is, I'm rapidly running out of umbrellas. The crew laughs, but I justify it on the grounds that its a drink based on rum, and its good for morale {mine}). But not to worry, I only get 5 or 6 merchants per cruise with the gun, so I can't do it that often anyway...

You'll have to excuse me: I've got to get back to work. "Hey, Chefo! Bring more ice, will ya!?"

:03:

Gryff

[BigWalleye]

They will prolly conclude that living upside down has affected your mind. All the Oz I've known are one cog short of a ring gear. (And that is a trait I admire!):03:

[Gryffon300]

They will prolly conclude that living upside down has affected your mind. All the Oz I've known are one cog short of a ring gear. (And that is a trait I admire!):03:

Bewdy, mate! :up:

[in_vino_vomitus]

Outstanding! Thanks for the intel. (But, it begs the question, "WHY?" Last I counted, 7 comes after 6 on the Torpedo Fire Control, so why should a different 'selector' key be needed to continue a sequence on THE SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT?! Eh? Answer me that! {Armscrossed, tapping foot smilie})
Cheers
Gryff

Well..... It means that you won't toggle into the rear tubes by mistake. I tend to go for keel shots where sea conditions are favourable, which means I often have different depths set and having front and rear tubes on separate keys is very handy

[as an aside, when you have voice control enabled, it totally rocks to be able to name your tube, set the offset and depth as required and fire - all in as much time as you've taken to read this ans without letting go of your beer or your sandwich]

I have problems with voice control on my machine - it wants to do all manner of stuff and all I want it to do is control my sub, so for the time being I'm back to doing it all by hand :hmmm:

[Gryffon300]

Well..... It means that you won't toggle into the rear tubes by mistake. I tend to go for keel shots where sea conditions are favourable, which means I often have different depths set and having front and rear tubes on separate keys is very handy

[as an aside, when you have voice control enabled, it totally rocks to be able to name your tube, set the offset and depth as required and fire - all in as much time as you've taken to read this ans without letting go of your beer or your sandwich]

I have problems with voice control on my machine - it wants to do all manner of stuff and all I want it to do is control my sub, so for the time being I'm back to doing it all by hand :hmmm:
Yes, I tend to push the limits of magnetic shots under the keel, too, but I have got in the habit of using cycle keys for set-up, but mouse to select tube for firing - so accidentally selecting wrong end of boat in firing has never come up.

Keen to give the voice command a go. I assume that the mod required is 'shSpeech2.54'?

Thanks

Gryff

[in_vino_vomitus]

Yes - that's the one, I believe there are others that do the same job - you'll also need to download speech SDK from microsoft.

The problem you're going to have is that the dial commands are based on the position of the centre of the dial and its width in pixels, and OTC isn't mapped out for this particular application, so you'll need to do some editing. Same detail with key allocations, but that's a minor chore. One guy did suggest he had the appropriate files edited, and offered to send me copies, but I'd run into a different problem by that point....

Editing voice commands is really simple. as is allocating keys to commands. it's an easy program to customise and it will work with anything. once it's working right, adjusting dials is faster and far more precise than a mouse can ever be.

The problem I had with it, was that, since I enabled voice control on my laptop, [as an alternative to downloading SpeechSDK] the laptop itself was interpreting my voice commands, so often, instead of, say for instance going to flank speed and slamming the rudder hard to port, I'd find myself opening Internet explorer instead. Which is doubly annoying, since I use firefox. Reluctantly, I went back to mouse control, but I'm sure it can be made to work on this machine somehow - And in any case, if you're not using Win8, then I doubt it will be an issue....

[BigWalleye]

IVV, I have used voice command exclusively for about a year now. I run Win7 without SDK and I ran through the voice training module maybe twice IIRC. I have very few problems with misrecognition. I use a Sony PS wireless headset, but I've also used a cheapo wired one from the Shack. Both give error rates about 1-2% - that is, there will be a "doink" - system did not recognize command - once every 50 commands or so. I get misrecognitions that trigger a Windows command less than once per gaming session. I tried an expensive Logitech headset with great 7.1 sound, and it gave error rates of maybe 10% and would not recognize some words - like "Fire!" - at all, ever. Tossed it. So reliable voice recognition seems to depend on having a good microphone, and "good" does not equal "spendy".

I have used Eric Knepfler's shspeech software for SH3 and SH4 and the built in voice command capability for SH5. I found setting the confidence level in SH5 to .85 worked better than the default .70. There is no similar setting for shspeech. (Don't know about Win8.) I have pruned the voice_commands.csv file pretty ruthlessly. I try to limit myself to just two or three different phrases for each command. That helps narrow down the choices the software has to make. R/L there were standard ways of phrasing orders to avoid confusion, so that is appropriate. You can throw in a couple of favorites like "Take 'er down." but you shouldn't have ten ways to order ten knots.:)

[Gryffon300]

Thanks IVV and BW, there are some great tips in amongst all that real world advice.

Looks like I'll be able to go to 'the talkies' soon!

Cheers

Gryff

[seehorse]

is the video still available somewhere?

[kurtz]

Legion's Noob Guide lives! I have a copy safe and sound on my You Tube page. Let's see if there's a way to embed the video. Testing.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3J6BNe2fI

I guess not but there's the link. The technique is a bit primitive but you have to remember that this was when SH4 was young and this video started all the purposeful explorations in how to make the game work very well.

Thanks for that. I'm a returner to subsim and really needed this video.