Dept Homeland security calls Gangs greatest threat to National Security???

[SUBMAN1]

Guess AL Qeida got knocked off the list! The bad part is - reading this stuff is scary!!! I know of two people personally that have had run-ins (seperate incidents) with these gangs up in Washingtons National forests, and this article sort of brings these two incidents home! Not good.

Milnet has some interesting non military articles sometimes. This one is about PC - Political Correctness and how it is hurting the efforts to stop it more than anything. Sad.

-S

Beginning of the article:

On March 15, 2005, the Department of Homeland Security finally made headlines in the national epidemic of illegal aliens found in Latino gangs. Unfortunately, the story isn't making a very big splash and the problem worsens. The case in question is the nationwide arrest and detainment of some 100 illegal aliens who are mexican national members of the Mara Salvaturcha or MS-13, a gang that had its start as El Salvodorian prison inmates. Some of those arrested are repeat "returnees" -- illegals who have more than once been deported and then illegally crossed into the U.S. once again. 1 The case clearly spells out the ease in which illegals can routinely cross into the U.S. Moreover, it points out that if a deportee can recross easily, there is literally nothing to stop an international terrorist.

Combined with a clearly insane political correctness displayed by some cities in the U.S., the problem is nearing the point of pitting cities against the U.S. government. Make no mistake, this is the largest threat to you and your family in this country, outweighing every terrorist organization's threat, including Al-Qaeda, yet virtually nothing is being done about it. Even a very well laid out and logical plea from researcher Heather MacDonald in 2004 has not seemed to attract the attention of politicos, and the latest events culminate decades of suicidal behavior of our politicians. It is time to put an end to this insanity, and it appears our politicians are not hearing from their constituents on the subject, or worse, are ignoring the problem despite the will of the American People.

This report will detail the governmental conflict, as well as describe the major gangs involved. We should note from the onset that we are focusing on Mexican National (Latino or Hispanic) gangs for a reason. Intelligence contacts are concerned that due to the porous U.S.-Mexican border, that the Mexican gangs already have high numbers of illegal aliens. Thus, any terrorist group could choose to infiltrate the Latin American gangs prior to making the crossing into the U.S. and find themselves with a wide support network in any number of states once inside the U.S.

This is a clear and present danger to U.S. National Security, and only recently has the Department of Homeland Security publicly acknowledged their participation in the nationwide focus by law enforcement. 1

There are also a number of White Supremacist gangs who have climbed to major prominence and can be found in MILNET's Domestic Terrorism Profiles (http://www.milnet.com/domestic/Dom-Terror.htm). These gangs rarely recruit from outside the U.S., and thus do not fall within scope of this report. Similarly, there have been African American gangs in prisons which have produced street gangs when those prisoners have been released...
Continue reading at Milnet - http://www.milnet.com/mex-nat.html

[donut]

"This report will detail the governmental conflict, as well as describe the major gangs involved. We should note from the onset that we are focusing on Mexican National (Latino or Hispanic) gangs for a reason. Intelligence contacts are concerned that due to the porous U.S.-Mexican border, that the Mexican gangs already have high numbers of illegal aliens. Thus, any terrorist group could choose to infiltrate the Latin American gangs prior to making the crossing into the U.S. and find themselves with a wide support network in any number of states once inside the U.S."
American (Latino or Hispanic) Steal from Gringo,to their mentality, it's OK.in the Borderland,& you can not protect yourself,because the politics,only elects,(Latino or Hispanic)friendlies that allow Latin American gangs,even the D.A.s office & Police. It's the USA. "UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU TO SPEAK AMERICAN" I will not say this again !:huh: They were never taught integrity.

[ASWnut101]

What?

[Enigma]

What?

I'll see your "What?" and raise you a "Huh!?"

[ASWnut101]

What did you make out of dounut's post?

[SUBMAN1]

What did you make out of dounut's post?

I think the last sentence in white is what he meant to say.

[Yahoshua]

Good article, but it's nothing that comes as new, nor surprising to me.

As far as I'm concerned, the damage is near irreversible without draconian crackdowns and enforcement of the law to change course on the issue.



Militarily enforcing border security is a start, making it permanent is even better. Attempts to cross the border illegally will result in prosecution with extreme prejudice.

Deporting illegals by the freight loads is the next.

Arrest and incarceration of MS-13 members will be concurrent.



If it doesn't happen soon then it will never happen.....

[Torpedo Fodder]

Some may not like me for saying this, but I will: the deadliness of terrorists IS overrated. Hell, even drunk drivers kill far more Americans than terrorists (more per year in fact than terrorists have killed in the last four decades). This is not to say terrorist threats should be ignored, but their lethality is still vastly overrated by the public, a fact that plays right into the terrorists' hands.

[The Avon Lady]

Some may not like me for saying this, but I will: the deadliness of terrorists IS overrated. Hell, even drunk drivers kill far more Americans than terrorists (more per year in fact than terrorists have killed in the last four decades). This is not to say terrorist threats should be ignored, but their lethality is still vastly overrated by the public, a fact that plays right into the terrorists' hands.
There is very little that is over-rated. Don't let your guard down. :nope:

[Letum]

What exactly is a "Gang" in America?

A dictionary informs me it is a:

An identifiable group of people (highly organized or loosely structured) who form
an alliance for a common purpose which identifies with or claims territory in the
community. Members engage either individually or collectively in antisocial or
unlawful activity/activities and frequently create an atmosphere of fear and
intimidation.

Sounds like some kind of mini-mafia(s). :hmm:

I'm sure organised crime is a threat to individuals and a problem for the forces of law, but
I don't see how it is a significant threat to National Security i.e. the territorial integrity,
sovereignty, and international freedom of action of the USA.

That not to say is isn't a serious problem.
Are there any special plans to deal with it?


Off-topic:

Some may not like me for saying this, but I will: the deadliness of terrorists IS overrated. Hell, even drunk drivers kill far more Americans than terrorists (more per year in fact than terrorists have killed in the last four decades). This is not to say terrorist threats should be ignored, but their lethality is still vastly overrated by the public, a fact that plays right into the terrorists' hands.
Yup, it's "overrated" because:

The terrorists have something to gain by exaggerating the threat because that is their aim!
The politicians have something to gain by exaggerating the threat because politicians do well when they appear to be fighting a enemy of the people and attention is diverted from civil problems.
And the media have something to gain by exaggerating the threat because it sells newspapers.

Everyone gains apart from Joe public, you and me. :nope:

Many (but not all) of the responses to terrorism have hurt us far more than terrorism it's self could ever have.


*note* I'm using the word "terrorism! in a very broad sense here and not referring to anything specific.

[SUBMAN1]

Sounds like some kind of mini-mafia(s). :hmm:

I'm sure organised crime is a threat to individuals and a problem for the forces of law, but
I don't see how it is a significant threat to National Security i.e. the territorial integrity,
sovereignty, and international freedom of action of the USA.

That not to say is isn't a serious problem.
Are there any special plans to deal with it?


Walk into their Turf and you may have a different opinion. They terrorize, they grow like cancer, and they affect everything from the ground up. THe best thing to compare it to in the UK is the IRA.

-S

[Tchocky]

Walk into their Turf and you may have a different opinion. They terrorize, they grow like cancer, and they affect everything from the ground up. THe best thing to compare it to in the UK is the IRA.

-S

Is it? G'wan so.

[SUBMAN1]

Walk into their Turf and you may have a different opinion. They terrorize, they grow like cancer, and they affect everything from the ground up. THe best thing to compare it to in the UK is the IRA.

-S
Is it? G'wan so.
Lets put it this way - A white guy walking through their turf is a very bad idea.:D A white woman walking alone through their turf is probably an even worse idea!

[elite_hunter_sh3]

i would barb wire the enter area between mexico and us border, THEN huge signs saying live landmines and i landmine the entire area.. then lets see em try to cross :arrgh!: . last resort (for most:shifty:) but its the most effective :up:

[baggygreen]

while i have nothing to do with gangs in the US, their seedyness is seeping into society here too.

Groups of kids with pants hanging around their knees wearing caps sideways, speaking some sort of unintelligible language... but their abuse of everyone who walks near them is plain to understand.

As for their spread down under, i blame wholly and solely the increase in R&B. those homies tuning rhymes about their hoes and hits and runins with the pigs...:down:

[August]

As for their spread down under, i blame wholly and solely the increase in R&B. those homies tuning rhymes about their hoes and hits and runins with the pigs...:down:

R&B as in Rhythm and Blues? I wish it were more popular. You really mean Rap and Hip Hop right?

[baggygreen]

whatevver it is!! im too old for all this new music stuff..

whatever it is where in the film clips theres fat, bald and pierced guys with beanies and big jackets on when it has to be summer because next to them are thousands of skinny, underage looking girls wearing the most skimpy of bikini suits.

And dancing involves leaning into the camera menacingly while making obscene and/or abusive hand gestures.

Whichever that music is.:sunny:

[fatty]

i would barb wire the enter area between mexico and us border, THEN huge signs saying live landmines and i landmine the entire area.. then lets see em try to cross :arrgh!: . last resort (for most:shifty:) but its the most effective :up:

I hope yer signs say "¡peligro! ¡minas!" on the other side :hmm:

[Tchocky]

Yes, it's definitely the fault of pop music.
Right.
Whatever.

And school shootings are inspired by heavy metal and industrial music :roll:

[Yahoshua]

It's the whole goth thing...I blame the goths.....http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Smilies/wasntme.gif



As for the immigration issue, I best simplify it with this:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/yours.jpg

[Letum]

THe best thing to compare it to in the UK is the IRA.


Do they all have a common political goal?

[The Avon Lady]

Yes, it's definitely the fault of pop music.
Right.
Whatever.

And school shootings are inspired by heavy metal and industrial music :roll:
While it might not be "the fault of", it is "inidicative of".

There is something terribly wrong here (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007286.htm). :cry:

[baggygreen]

Can someone tell me, what precisely is "fly"?

maybe its when they upset one (or hundreds) of women by being 'dropped' so quickly..

"See my pimping never dragged
Find me wit' different women that you niggas never had"

Tchocky, a sub-culture has developed around that particular style of music and there can be no denying it. "kids idolise their favourite rappers and no all their songs". they attempt to emulate these 'role models' (and i use the term loosely) and their mannerisms. What the hell happened to the days when kids idolised astronauts and sports stars and heaven forbid, their parents! Instead of who can kick the footy from outside 50, or who can run the fastest of 110yards, its who can get their pants as low as possible, or who can wear the longest, most ridiculous gold chain.

Now, its more a case of "i wanna smack down dat bitch yo mumma". I went and paid a visit to my old school, kids there are talkin a language i dont understand. Worrying, seeing as im not particularly old myself!

These 'singers' lack respect for women, for the law, and just for other people in general! kids that are idolising them are seeing that this is the way to act, this is how you should behave. Now, granted, parents have a lot to do with a kids behaviour, but DONT underestimate the amount kids get influenced outside the home.

[The Avon Lady]

Bill Cosby said it straight (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp) a few years ago and, yes, it applies to everyone.

[kiwi_2005]

Can someone tell me, what precisely is "fly"?

maybe its when they upset one (or hundreds) of women by being 'dropped' so quickly..

"See my pimping never dragged
Find me wit' different women that you niggas never had"

Tchocky, a sub-culture has developed around that particular style of music and there can be no denying it. "kids idolise their favourite rappers and no all their songs". they attempt to emulate these 'role models' (and i use the term loosely) and their mannerisms. What the hell happened to the days when kids idolised astronauts and sports stars and heaven forbid, their parents! Instead of who can kick the footy from outside 50, or who can run the fastest of 110yards, its who can get their pants as low as possible, or who can wear the longest, most ridiculous gold chain.

Now, its more a case of "i wanna smack down dat bitch yo mumma". I went and paid a visit to my old school, kids there are talkin a language i dont understand. Worrying, seeing as im not particularly old myself!

These 'singers' lack respect for women, for the law, and just for other people in general! kids that are idolising them are seeing that this is the way to act, this is how you should behave. Now, granted, parents have a lot to do with a kids behaviour, but DONT underestimate the amount kids get influenced outside the home.

Well who do you blame for letting them speak like that, not always the rappers fault, its the parents as well, i mean if my son came home talking like some homie from the gutter, I would make him sleep in the dog kennel a few nights so he can really feel at home. No seriously he wouldn't even dare cause i would do it. He hates rap anyways. But some parents would do nothing.

[Yahoshua]

Bill Cosby said it straight (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp) a few years ago and, yes, it applies to everyone.


I read this speech a few years ago and it still rings true today.

I never did get along well with peers from my age group and most, if not all of my friends; are much older than I am (usually in their late 30s' to early 50s').

Looking around today at my peers I have absolutely no motivation whatsoever to even attempt to understand or reason with them. They have squandered education that would be far more useful if taken from them and given to someone else who will be able and willing to pull their own weight.

These kids are brats who are spoiled at school and in the home at the expense of my tax dollars. They have no experience of their own to draw from and have learned nothing from the experience of others. We're going to hell in a handbasket, and I want out of the basket.

[SUBMAN1]

Yes, it's definitely the fault of pop music.
Right.
Whatever.

And school shootings are inspired by heavy metal and industrial music :roll:

To a point, he has a point. The music reflects a mentallity of a particular group, and the music is a way to preach that menetality to another group, possibly inspiring more of the same mentality.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

THe best thing to compare it to in the UK is the IRA.

Do they all have a common political goal?

More or less. They want to fully control their home landscape, even from the cops, everything. It is of course, not as sophisticated as the IRA (The gangs are nothing more than stupid thugs).

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Bill Cosby said it straight (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp) a few years ago and, yes, it applies to everyone.

Good post! :up:

[Enigma]

As far as the rap music, etc...

The childish, stupid, violent, female degrading, money grubbing crap that alot of kids listen to is what sells. Maybe there is an element of the commercial music business to blame, maybe it's all down to lack of governance by parents. I dont know. But my limited hiphop/rap collection has one common theme. It's not full of violence, dope, and bitches. Artists like The Roots, Talib Kwali, Mos Def, Common, they all make a career and a living without the violence, degrading of women, bragging of money and pushing dope. They all talk about real life and experiences, and they make the best hip hop around, and are extremely talente artists. But they never achieve the commercial success of your 50Cent, Snoop, Dre, Cube and the like. The very artists and songs we are discussing as being bad are clearly also the ones that sell, and the stuff that people want. Im not sure who is to blame for this.

I do know, however, that the vast mojority of kids buying this music are white, and middle to upper class. The very kids that probably cant even relate to what these guys are professing....


and say y'all be gospel rappin'
but they be steady clappin' when you talk about
bitches & switches & hoes & clothes & weed
let's talk about time travelin'
somethin' mind unravelin' -Outkast

[AG124]

Here's an interesting article from CBC; not exactly about the negative effects of rap 'music' or about gang activity, but it does show how the system helps to sow the seeds of the negative behaviour with failure to discipline.:nope: It seems that schools in Ontario were punishing delinquent students, but since the new Liberal provincial government doesn't think it makes sense to punish offenders; instead it will offer them counselling and mediation.:huh: (apparently, suspension is "overly harsh" and minority groups are offended). I'm sure this will lead to the creation of more model citizens and less delinquent activity (including youth gangs).:roll:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/04/10/safe-schools-act.html

Maybe I'm overreacting, and maybe there is more to this than I am reading (maybe some balance is good, and maybe they will still suspend/expel the worst ones), but after personally going through a school system that allowed delinquents to get away with way too much without any punishment at all (including smashing holes in the walls, destroying desks and chairs, and uttering fairly serious threats to kill other students and teachers), I just don't have a good feeling about where this will lead.

[Iceman]

without draconian crackdowns


This is good can I use this in the future?

This gang runs the prisions in many states...old news.

MS-13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_UO_FgG4IE)

[Yahoshua]

without draconian crackdowns


This is good can I use this in the future?

This gang runs the prisions in many states...old news.

MS-13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_UO_FgG4IE)

Eh?:doh:

Forgive me but use it for what?

[Tchocky]

Damn swing music, when these kids grow up and have their own children, what kind of values will they be giving them? I feel for the children of the 1940's and 50's.

Yeah, this hasnt happened every generation...

[SUBMAN1]

Damn swing music, when these kids grow up and have their own children, what kind of values will they be giving them? I feel for the children of the 1940's and 50's.

Yeah, this hasnt happened every generation...

Yes it has. It is called a state of moral decline. It happened to every great power that ever existed throughout history that lasted any length of time. All lead to failure of the system and the crumbling of the power or empire. What you are seeing today is nothing different.

-S

[Yahoshua]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Rap.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Smilies/2cents.gif

[Tchocky]

Damn swing music, when these kids grow up and have their own children, what kind of values will they be giving them? I feel for the children of the 1940's and 50's.

Yeah, this hasnt happened every generation...
Yes it has. It is called a state of moral decline. It happened to every great power that ever existed throughout history that lasted any length of time. All lead to failure of the system and the crumbling of the power or empire. What you are seeing today is nothing different.

-S

Gah, should have added a rolling eyes icon :)

This kind of rubbish happens with every generation, be it rock'n'roll, prog, metal, the hippie culture, whatever. Let it slide. I'm not going to label music that I don't like as "corrupting" or as a sign of moral decline. that's a subjective historical judgement.

Retards attempting poetry? may I direct you in the way of some NWA or Public Enemy? :p

[Yahoshua]

Rap, by and large, is unimaginative and without any real innovation with a bunch of noise played to equally awful end-rhyme poetry.

[Tchocky]

Rap, by and large, is unimaginative and without any real innovation with a bunch of noise played to equally awful end-rhyme poetry.
W00t, subjectivity :p

[CCIP]

Rap, by and large, is unimaginative and without any real innovation with a bunch of noise played to equally awful end-rhyme poetry. W00t, subjectivity :p

Even as a persistent not-a-fan of rap, I can't help but nod :yep:

[Tchocky]

Heh, not-a-fan :)

Like every genre of music, there is good and bad hip-hop. Last night I had a great argument in a cab about this very subject. I don't remember it, because it was at around 4am somewhere in Hell's Kitchen, but I recall bellowing out a chorus of Fight The Power. Um, yeah.....

Meh. There are two kinds of music. Good music, and crap music. Also, every conversation you have about music, isn't about music. it's about you. Such is art
*waves hands mystically*

[TteFAboB]

Rap is unimaginative and without any real innovation with a bunch of noise played to equally awful rhyme.

There, I fixed your post.

[Wxman]

Crowd Turns Violent During Tulsa Standoff (http://www.kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=125138)
KOTV - 4/15/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 4/15/2007 10:54 PM

A mob turns violent with police during a standoff with a homicide suspect. Officers cornered the suspect at an apartment complex on the 2200 block on North Hartford, but that standoff quickly attracted dozens of area residents. Police eventually arrested the man they were looking for, 19-year-old Rico Starks. The News On 6’s Chris Wright reports getting him into custody proved more difficult than anticipated.

http://www.kotv.com/newsimages/640/d5c60f82-90ad-4a5c-adc6-19612c59def4.jpg

Police went to the Morning Star Apartments to find Starks. He was charged in February for the 2006 murder of 18-year-old Mark Jordan. After being confronted, Starks barricaded himself in an apartment and refused to come out. Police say that's when the situation started to get out of control. A crowd started gathering, and it quickly became larger and angrier.

"These guys on scene first here had a very scary, high risk job to maintain the integrity of that building and not get anyone hurt," said Tulsa Police Officer Scott Walton.

Police say the mob soon swelled to more than 100 people. Authorities tell us they began jumping on cars, vandalizing police vehicles, throwing rocks, and shots were even fired. An estimated 75 officers, including members of the Special Operations Unit, were called in to control the crowd.

"It was definitely a mob mentality," said Walton. "They moved on these officers. They were able to keep their spots and keep the suspect contained in the apartment before he came out of there."

Starks did eventually come out of the apartment, surrendering to police shortly after 11 p.m. Police say they are not sure exactly why the situation escalated the way it did, but considering the size of the mob, it could have ended differently.

"We are fortunate that no bystanders, officers, anybody was hurt," Walton said. "It was a difficult task to take care with the few officers on hand at first."

In addition to the murder charge, Starks also had an outstanding warrant for second-degree burglary.

http://www.kotv.com/newsimages/640/a6b9c926-9b1b-4669-9cbe-150decbc3643.jpg

[read more media reports, including commtary about this event at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1817885/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1817885/posts)]

[Yahoshua]

Who is this guy?

I looked him up on google and only found the same article you posted.

[Heibges]

Can someone tell me, what precisely is "fly"?

maybe its when they upset one (or hundreds) of women by being 'dropped' so quickly..

"See my pimping never dragged
Find me wit' different women that you niggas never had"

Tchocky, a sub-culture has developed around that particular style of music and there can be no denying it. "kids idolise their favourite rappers and no all their songs". they attempt to emulate these 'role models' (and i use the term loosely) and their mannerisms. What the hell happened to the days when kids idolised astronauts and sports stars and heaven forbid, their parents! Instead of who can kick the footy from outside 50, or who can run the fastest of 110yards, its who can get their pants as low as possible, or who can wear the longest, most ridiculous gold chain.

Now, its more a case of "i wanna smack down dat bitch yo mumma". I went and paid a visit to my old school, kids there are talkin a language i dont understand. Worrying, seeing as im not particularly old myself!

These 'singers' lack respect for women, for the law, and just for other people in general! kids that are idolising them are seeing that this is the way to act, this is how you should behave. Now, granted, parents have a lot to do with a kids behaviour, but DONT underestimate the amount kids get influenced outside the home.

The Astronauts are now plotting to kill people.

The sports stars are all using steroids.

The parents are both working so the kids rarely see them.

The draftdodgers have become the warhawks.

Strange times in America.

But as far as being misongenistic, hip hop is no more so than the rest of American culture in general. What Snoop Dogg says now, is now different from what Norman Mailer was saying in Naked and the Dead in 1945, or John Delveccio was saying in The Thirteenth Valley in 1982, or Antony Swofford was saying in Jarhead. America is very anti-woman, always has been, and probably always will be.