*** Subsim's Silent Hunter 4 review ***

[Onkel Neal]

SUBSIM'S SILENT HUNTER 4 REVIEW (http://www.subsim.com/sh4/silent_hunter4.php)

Now, time to play the game for fun!

Good hunting!
Neal

[Cakewalk]

:up: :D

The best reviews are thorough ones.:rock:

[Drebbel]

:up: :D

The best reviews are thorough ones.:rock:

yeah yeah yeah. Till now we do not know anything abouy thorough, we just know that Neal really took his time :p

[U56]

From the Oxford English Dictionary:


SOON /su:n/ adv. 1 after a short interval of time.......



From Neal Stevens:


Whenever!




Looking forward to it Neal!!..................Whenever!!:D


Regards

[Drebbel]

:lol:

But from reliable sources I got the info Neal has more important thing on his mind right noe

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http://www.subsim.com/images/neal_big.gif


:D

[Onkel Neal]

SUBSIM'S SILENT HUNTER 4 REVIEW (http://www.subsim.com/sh4/silent_hunter4.php)


Good hunting!
Neal

[tommyk]

Very good Review! Thanks! :up:

[Packerton]

Good review Neal

Kicks the so called "Professinal reviews" Out of the water!

[Drebbel]

Well done Neal, a good and honest review !

[BlackSpot]

Very good review Neal. Clearly written by someone who's actually PLAYED the game. (I still don't hear that hatch closing though ;) )

[toby66]

Thanks for the review. Looking forward to read it this evening.

[Sailor Steve]

Witty, funny, honest (warts and all), informative and on the mark as always.

:up: :up:

[FesterShinetop]

Excellent review Neal!! And I fully agree with it! :up:

[OddjobXL]

By and large, I agree. Though I do subjectively think there are some rougher spots than indicated, ship and aircraft maneuvering AI and reduced crew interactivity, SH4 is definitely growing on me over SH3. Just took a while.

[mookiemookie]

Good work, Neal. A very fair assessment!

[Biggles]

A little easter-egg on the pic showing the sub-personal eh?

"why is there no spinach in this tin-can!?":rotfl: :rotfl:

[Skweetis]

Is the glass half-empty? Or half-full? Either way, when you're thirsty, there's water to be had in that glass.

My favorite quote from the review. Well done, Neal. Objective and honest as always.

:up:

[Drebbel]

A little easter-egg on the pic showing the sub-personal eh?

"why is there no spinach in this tin-can!?":rotfl: :rotfl:

Oh man, go on, you are so close !

[Takeda Shingen]

As always, a good review. Many thanks, Neal.

[John Channing]

Very well done.

I hope it didn't ruin the game for you!

JCC

[DJSatane]

I have a question about scoring:

Mission Editor: 5/5

*I found the editor like you wrote* however without any documentation how can you give it a perfect score? Does it work perfectly? You didnt mention any details.

Also:

Graphics: 10/10

How can you give the game perfect score in graphics if there are few major problems with it. There is the Environmental Effects "monolith" glitch that affects all cards throughly explained here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108938

Further, both problem with in game 3d resolution not being scalable to proper resolutions and inability to use AA. I understand giving it a score of maybe 8/10 or maybe even 9 but there is no way you can give the game a perfect 10 with those issues present. Perfect score in that department makes no sense. Maybe patches will fix this but right now they are not fixed and you have to review current state.

[Bum]

I'm enjoying the game, and I know it should have gotten a few months more work. :yep:

[Drebbel]

but there is no way you can give the game a perfect 10 with those issues present.

The Onkel can, it is his opinion afterall :know:

[DJSatane]

You right its opinion, but I thought considering facts present it shouldnt be perfect thats all. about 9/10. Problem is I hope reviews like these dont stop UBI from continuing support. They will see graphics are perfect in review and say lets not fix any graphics since it seems they are perfect...

[Safe-Keeper]

Now to look for easter eggs and start claiming prizes:up:.

[Drebbel]

Looks like most skippers need a refresher look out course :lol:

[Gizzmoe]

You right its opinion, but I thought considering facts present it shouldnt be perfect thats all.
I honestly was surprised as well that the graphics got a 10/10, in the current state SH4 doesn´t deserve that score. 8.5/10 would be ok, maybe even only 8/10.

[Kresge]

I think Neal sums it up well:
"Submarine sim players know how many titles there are to choose from and anyone who lets a few flaws stop them from putting to sea in Silent Hunter 4 deserves to be left at the dock."

If all you want are pretty graphics please head immediately to the nearest store and purchase an Xbox or PS3 and stop filling this forum with whining! It has become so difficult to find any decent info on the game while trying to wade through all the useless moaning about the jaggies.
:damn:

[Drebbel]

All stand to attention: Onkel in the Thread !

[Onkel Neal]

How can you give the game perfect score in graphics?

Well, 10/10 does not mean perfect, it means superb. On my PC, the graphics are better than Silent Service II, better than Aces, Sub Command, SH3, and most other current games I have played. Not perfect, but clearly superb, as good as any "eye candy is not the most important part of a subsim" guy would wish for. :) (the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory ;) )

But 100% means perfect for all normal human beings...

Think of it like this:

If you wrote a book or an essay, or a computer game,
and people thought, this is good
or this is great
or this is really superb, better than anything before it,
it still would never be perfect
unless it cured cancer and banished red triangles everywhere.

But according to maths 10/10 means 100%
Consider a 5 star game, or 5 star hotel, there are lots of 5 star hotels,
5/5 is 100% too.
But they are not perfect, they don't have Swedish hookers in every room.

Good topic for debate :)
cheers!
Neal

[Gizzmoe]

But according to maths 10/10 means 100%
Consider a 5 star game, or 5 star hotel, there are lots of 5 star hotels, 5/5 is 100% too.
A 5 star hotel in Germany is different from a 5 star hotel in Kasachstan! The same hotel here would only get 3 stars or less... :)

Of course the graphics are better than in SH2, AOTD or other older games, but following that logic all shooters than came after Quake 1 should automatically get a 10/10 as well. The graphics of a new game need to be compared to games of the same time period, and since there are serious shortcomings, as you´ve pointed out in the review, the game does not deserve 10/10.

"Upon release, it was determined SH4 locked the resolution at 1024x768 and did not allow anti-aliasing, drawing the ire of upscale players with large monitors."

So what would SH4 graphics get after Ubi fixes all that? A 12/10? ;)

[RickC Sniper]

An honest review Neal, thank you.



Perhaps for Neal, on his system, the game graphics ARE great. I would disagree with him on this score, but I only see the game with my equipment, not his.

......salute
Rick

[Banquet]

Difficult review to do but I think you got the comments and score just right.

No one would be in doubt that there are problems, but there is a fantastic sim at the core of it all, after reading the review - which is the way it should be. :up:

[Bum]

Great reveiw and thanks for the easter eggs!!:up:

[CCIP]

I was almost surprised (perhaps pleasantly so) that Neal focused so much on criticism of the bugs and flaws this time. But otherwise a stellar review as always! The scoring, I think, is certainly on the "glass half full" side, but that's really peripheral when you consider the comments which are spot-on and should satisfy both sides of this.

And I'm glad, of course, that we're not forgetting that for all the problems, we still have a beautiful game here :p

[DJSatane]

the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory

So, you assume this will be fixed instead of reviewing current state. Does this mean you already know this will be fixed in upcoming patch? If so thats great.

[sqk7744]

Bravo Neal! :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

How can you give the game perfect score in graphics?

Well, 10/10 does not mean perfect, it means superb. On my PC, the graphics are better than Silent Service II, better than Aces, Sub Command, SH3, and most other current games I have played. Not perfect, but clearly superb, as good as any "eye candy is not the most important part of a subsim" guy would wish for. :) (the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory ;) )

But 100% means perfect for all normal human beings...

Think of it like this:

If you wrote a book or an essay, or a computer game,
and people thought, this is good
or this is great
or this is really superb, better than anything before it,
it still would never be perfect
unless it cured cancer and banished red triangles everywhere.

But according to maths 10/10 means 100%
Consider a 5 star game, or 5 star hotel, there are lots of 5 star hotels,
5/5 is 100% too.
But they are not perfect, they don't have Swedish hookers in every room.

Good topic for debate :)
cheers!
Neal

I agree 100% with this assessment of the graphics. They are breathtaking if you happen to look at the right moment. PPF put a superb fresh face on this gaming experience IMHO. If you look closely at the small details over the larger picture, yes, the graphics and representation is superb.


Great review and plainly written by someone who took the time spending a lot of time playing and pouring over what SH4 has to offer as a submarine simulation.

[jeff lackey]

Nice review, Neal - very well done!

Jeff

[DragonRR1]

A generally great review Neal.

"If Ubisoft will let the devs finish the job, Silent Hunter 4 could sail to victory."

If they do... then, imo, it will sail to victory!

I have to agree with the graphics ratings comments by others.. If they fix the monolith, the resolution and AA then 10/10. The sim in it's current form is very hard to rate because it looks bloody awful on my screen especially when compared to a high res SH3. Superb.. well only if I take my glasses off :)

[mookiemookie]

the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory
So, you assume this will be fixed instead of reviewing current state. Does this mean you already know this will be fixed in upcoming patch? If so thats great.
Neal knows more than you or me ever will about the status of the game and patches. When I loaded torpedoes with him in Galveston at the Cavalla in February, he told me he was already playing the game. I threatened to mug him in the parking lot. That's a true story. :lol:

[rulle34]

:up:

[Iron Budokan]

I've been looking forward to this review for a long time. Thank you! :up:

[Marko_Ramius]

Good review, good work.

But i agree with the fact that the 10/10 on graphic part is not serious, for me. A 9/10 would be more accurate because of FSAA problem and resolution ...

Things would be different if mentionned in readme file ..

[DJSatane]

the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory
So, you assume this will be fixed instead of reviewing current state. Does this mean you already know this will be fixed in upcoming patch? If so thats great.
Neal knows more than you or me ever will about the status of the game and patches. When I loaded torpedoes with him in Galveston at the Cavalla in February, he told me he was already playing the game. I threatened to mug him in the parking lot. That's a true story. :lol:

Good, then I expect this graphic glitch 100% fixed :) Great news, I wish he would hint on more things that will be fixed or enhanced.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Great one Neal:yep: well written.

[-Pv-]

As a sub simulation veteran, I completely agree with the review. Quality work.
-Pv-

[Galanti]

Great review, Neal. I think the approach you've chosen, which highlights the positives the game has to offer ( I am having a rock-hard good time with USS Permit!) as opposed to its more glaring detractions, is fundamentally the right one.

It's the market, above all else. You've stated a simple truth: we have to embrace this one, because we have farg-all else to choose from. The more consumer-saavy amongst us will say we have the walllet power to say otherwise, but sadly, I think that's just pissing in the wind. We have to support this franchise, and perhaps naively, I think the devs are listening and will right what is wrong.

However, I have to be honest, the lack of FSAA and a buggered resolution is a crippling issue, and for many of todays gamers lacking the staying power to wait for patches, maybe a fatal one. I would disagree with your appraisal on graphics on this basis, though obviously the potential (mmmm, plankton) is there. Right now it's like watching beach volleyball when your a dozen or so beers in: it should look great, but it seems all fuzzy anbd blurry to you!

[Charlie901]

Qutoe from Neal's Review:

In conjunction with the trial and error tutorials, SH4 has a pathetic excuse for a manual. Half of the 100 pages is comprised of pictures of the different ships in the game (metric measurements, no less), the same pictures that come on the bonus poster and in SH4's ingame ID book. The few pages that deal with the game features and interface are very generic lists of the buttons and settings in the game but not much about how to use them or what they do. Several keys bits of information are missing, such as how to direct the sonar heads (HOME and END keys) and how to tweak the realism options mid-career (look for a book in the HQ office). Thankfully, there are ten good pages of key details on using the TDC and conducting torpedo attacks. I'm not a stickler for 400 page manuals--a 90 page volume will do just fine as long as it covers the game functions and tactics accurately and in detail. Those two aspects really defeat Ubisoft's purpose of trying to capture the "casual" gamer with Hollywood effects and visuals.


Couldn't agree more!!!!

Especially the Bold area!

[DanielMcintyre]

the FPS monolith will soon be a bad memory
So, you assume this will be fixed instead of reviewing current state. Does this mean you already know this will be fixed in upcoming patch? If so thats great.
Neal knows more than you or me ever will about the status of the game and patches. When I loaded torpedoes with him in Galveston at the Cavalla in February, he told me he was already playing the game. I threatened to mug him in the parking lot. That's a true story. :lol:
A review is used to give the average person an idea of the experience they will get when they go out and spend hard earned dollars on the reviewed product. In that respect I think this review is quite misleading scorewise. Take for example the Realism:

Realism 18/20? Excessive search plane numbers, grossly excessive bomb loadings, fairyfloss plane damage models, destroyers that explode on ramming, subs whose single deck guns can wipe out a TF of destroyers.

While I love this game too because I can see its potential to be really awesome, at the moment its a piece of crap only its mothers and hardcore sub fanatics could love. I dont think the review really reflects that and so its misleading imo.

[heartc]

A review is used to give the average person an idea of the experience they will get when they go out and spend hard earned dollars on the reviewed product. In that respect I think this review is quite misleading scorewise. Take for example the Realism:

Realism 18/20? Excessive search plane numbers, grossly excessive bomb loadings, fairyfloss plane damage models, destroyers that explode on ramming, subs whose single deck guns can wipe out a TF of destroyers.
Well, what Neal specifically mentioned in the realism part of his review were for example manual TDC and no map contact updates (no "God's Eye" view, including no visual hydrophone intercepts like they only saw the light of day in more modern subs). These two options alone make this game a very realistic experience and are not around since long. SHIII was the first WWII submersibles sim to feature the no map contact updates option, and manual TDC is really only around since SHII, which had numerous other faults. It was there in SHI, too, but in reality you had a hard time, to say the least, judging AOB on ships represented by 2D sprites, which optically changed their ANGLE only every 20° or so, and often had to take a look at the God's Eye view for Angle estimates.

So, what I'm saying here is that those two features do have a VERY significant impact on how closely the simulation can resemble maybe THE major aspect of Submarine warfare: Making sense, drawing a mental picture of what is happening around or above you with trigonometry and the limited tools you have. And that these features were also there in SHIII (for the first time at that scale) doesn't make them less realistic in SHIV, either. Take note that many players turn these options off but procceed to complain about the lack of realism nonetheless...

Then also you have neat things like realistic pinging, switching to short scale during attack runs, the Sub losing speed during turns etc etc. Also, the fact that some Destroyer skippers seem inept while others give you a beating - something many people critizised - is actually another feature, not a bug, from what I've read about the PacWar.

As to your points of unrealistic Plane Damage Models, Destroyers exploding on ramming (do they? Didn't try that) and the Ubber-Deckgun, this was exactly the same with un-modded SHIII. In fact, SHIV introduced some more realistic features which were absent in SHIII, like circular running torpedoes, WAY more realistic repair times among them. Now when I look at what Realism Rating SHIII got, it was 20/20. So, 2 points less for SHIV for excessive bomb loadouts on some planes and maybe a few other things (like the bugged SD radar picking up surface contacts, which is a biggy, but will surely get fixed) seems fair to me. Maybe SHIII back then should have gotten 18/20, and SHIV 16/20, but really? The things above were no show stoppers in SHIII nor are they in SHIV, and with some you can work around them by simply not doing unrealistic stuff like taking on destroyers in surface gun battles or duking it out with planes, and they will most probably be fixed by modders like has been done with SHIII.

There are many things which are unrealistic in ANY simulation that comes out and in view of this I think a rating of 16/20 in Realism for SHIV would have been too poor. There are a hell of a lot more things done right there than have been done wrong. We tend to take them as granted, especially after SHIII, but they are still there, and then some.

While I love this game too because I can see its potential to be really awesome, at the moment its a piece of crap only its mothers and hardcore sub fanatics could love. I dont think the review really reflects that and so its misleading imo.
It is misleading because it doesn't rate the game as piece of crap? In fact I think it would be VERY misleading if it did.

[heartc]

Oh, and another MAJOR plus for SHIV which I forgot: I don't know if it was just me or my monitor in SHIII, but the lightning conditions during the night in that one only seemed to change with Latitude, never with moon conditions, or it was so subtle I didn't notice. In SHIV, I can really tell the difference if the moon is up and where, if it's clear or cloudy, or overcast. Under a full, high moon and clear sky, the night is pretty bright and I can see lots of things, while under opposite conditions it might be dark as in "black". This puts a whole new dimension to night / night surface actions and makes them WAY more realistic. Too bad we don't have a Moonrise/-set, Sunrise/-set in game calendar as in SHI though.


However here is this site:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html#formb

Didn't check yet if it's accurate in the sim though.

[joea]

Great post heartc :up:

[Chrall]

Nice review, Neal. One thing though.
"If you decide you want to wolfpack with fellow SH4 players, the game officially supports up to 4 on Ubi.com and 8 on LAN."
I think you've mixed up LAN and Ubi.com with Co-operative and Adversarial mode. Co-op is 8 players and Adversarial is 4, doesn't matter if it's LAN or on Ubi.com.

[Hans Schultz]

excellet review Neal, you captured the feeling of the community very well, in my opinon. well worded and a truly great review I wish I could transfer my thoughts to words that well!!
3 cheers for Neal!
:rock: :rock: :rock:

[1mPHUNit0]

"Thanks a lot Neal
Ubisoft Corporation Entertainment"
In fact, many elements are taken a step further than SH3.
Many?
I don't think so

[Subnuts]

"Thanks a lot Neal
Ubisoft Corporation Entertainment"

He must be one a dem paid disinformation agents. It's all a conspiracy, I tells ya! :roll:

[Drebbel]

"Thanks a lot Neal
Ubisoft Corporation Entertainment".......

I think you are very insulting to Neal and this is not a fair comment at all.

If you want to discuss the review then no one will stop you, but insulting remarks like these are below the belt imho :arrgh!:

[heartc]

"Thanks a lot Neal
Ubisoft Corporation Entertainment".......
I think you are very insulting to Neal and this is not a fair comment at all.

If you want to discuss the review then no one will stop you, but insulting remarks like these are below the belt imho :arrgh!:

The Subsim crew once wondered what happened to the forums. Well, it's simple, really, and started already when SHIII came out: With shiny graphics come the kids. And the PC has become standard like the TV set in almost every household, in many countries, and is easy to use. That is what happened. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

"Thanks a lot Neal
Ubisoft Corporation Entertainment".......
I think you are very insulting to Neal and this is not a fair comment at all.

If you want to discuss the review then no one will stop you, but insulting remarks like these are below the belt imho :arrgh!:

The Subsim crew once wondered what happened to the forums. Well, it's simple, really, and started already when SHIII came out: With shiny graphics come the kids. And the PC has become standard like the TV set in almost every household, in many countries, and is easy to use. That is what happened. ;)


Good posts Heartc. It is like the notion of a half full glass or half empty. All depends on ones outlook on things. Many are always quick for criticism but slow in the 'atta boy' department. I view SH4 much like you...it is a glass half full, new patch and some mods...now the glass is full. Like any other forum, anonimity apparently equals to "I can write anything without recourse". Again, nice posts...specifically realism, I'm running 100% and certainly have not obtained the 100K club...kind of hard when the red square with tails are not showing up on the map. I think that is why they call it Silent Hunter:hmm:....I got to go hunt for them.

[partyboy]

I played my last couple patrols at 92% realism, only being a 'decent' shot with the manual TDC and never playing without map contact updates off before (or realistic sensors) - and it's a completely different experience. I'm overjoyed anytime I'm able to track a merchant ship down close enough to spot through my periscope. I probably put about 4 hours into my last 2 patrols combined and only saw (and sunk) 2 merchant vessels.

But it's so much more rewarding. I remember every little detail about those attacks, and even the enviroment, the way the water was behaving, left a much stronger impression. I took out one of the merchants at night in choppy seas.. it was a royal pita setting that up with my periscope going under for ~10 seconds, and leaving me with only about ~3 seconds of clear (DARK) viewing. So good.

[MONOLITH]

Excellent write up Neal. I know you had to think that one out.

Honesty, but fairness, are not always easy to put hand in hand.

Well done.



:|\\

[USS_shipmaster]

Very good review with full honest description of good and bad sides of the simulator. Actually good critic job! Thanks Neil.
I do not agree with just one evaluation: 5/5 mission editor... because there is no manual for ME.

[stabiz]

Well written, but I disagree somewhat. Graphics are a solid 8, for instance.

I would end up on 75%. Its a good game, but not great. (yet)

[cappy70]

Good review.:up:

Shows that after all it's a game with a lot of potential when "terminix' is ready with the little crawlers in the game:arrgh!: :D

[Webchessie]

Thanks for the honest review! While I've invested in additional RAM and a new graphics card specifically for SHIV, I believe I'm going to continue to wait until the next patch comes out before buying the game. Until then, I'll be in the Atlantic.

[Binky1st]

Yep a good non-biased and acurate review:yep:, one of the night screen shots looks very familiar I am sure I have seen it before somewhere Neil:hmm:;)






Ah now I remember is was one of mine :)

[Onkel Neal]

Yep a good non-biased and acurate review:yep:, one of the night screen shots looks very familiar I am sure I have seen it before somewhere Neil:hmm:;)






Ah now I remember is was one of mine :)

You betcha! You do good work ;)
I posted a note saying I might use some of the great screens from the Screen thread in the review
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=485626&postcount=151

.