Iranian mindgames

[STEED]

The 15 Royal Navy personnel captured by Iran described today how they were blindfolded, bound and subjected to “constant psychological pressure” during their 13 days in captivity.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1623146.ece


Well the other side of the story is out now.

[SUBMAN1]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S

[Platapus]

Yup no one can really know what they experienced but them.

I hope they will be given some slack. They are all young kids thrown into a difficult stressful situtation :yep:

Monday morning quartbacking (or what the hell they call it over in Brit land) won't accomplish anything

We got them back safe and there was no shootin. This is a classic win-win. Let's both declare victory and move on.

[TteFAboB]

Setting my timer. Let's see how long untill the first Human Rights organization cries foul.

[tycho102]

That whole situation sucked.

The Iranians showed up as the boarding team were just leaving the ship in their inflatable boats. They would have had to speed/swim back to the cargo boat, and climb back up the ladder onto the ship to be able to "fight". The Iranians had 20mm anti-aircraft guns on their armoured boats. The Brits had life vests and a few pistols and rifles.

The team can be faulted for not being situationally aware, but the Iranian boats could have gone from shore to the cargo ship in just about 5 minutes (10km@45kts). Likely they didn't even have to go that far. Besides that, the Iranians scouted out this particular operation. We now know that we will actually have to secure our boarding teams -- imagine that in a conflict zone.

Bush still hasn't learned the concept of "securing the borders". Won't do it in America, didn't do it in Iraq. Why should Blair, a fellow neocon, understand the concept of "securing the boarders?"

[ASWnut101]

Why am I not surprised?


Now the qustion remains (one for another topic, maby): Were they in Iraninan waters?

[Rykaird]

Setting my timer. Let's see how long untill the first Human Rights organization cries foul.

Hope your timer is calibrated in geologic ages and not weeks or months.

[waste gate]

A couple of questions. Are these folks in the military? Is the British military not voluntary? Why is it that they are under 'a lot of stress'? Do the Brits not train their soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen?

Stop treating these people as civilians. It was their job to go in harms way. This 'OMG' my poor child syndrome has to end. These people knew or should have known that their job will put them in danger. This isn't a game we play on our computers. It is real life.

[Skybird]

What have you all expected - that they would be kept in a five-star hotel with room service and Geishas on call? If one is defending the practices at Guantanamo, one can hardly complain about the treatment of the sailors in Iran. If it is no bad treatment here, then it cannot be called bad treatment there.

The public has no evidence of what happened during the incident. the public also has not seen evidences concerning the accusations of the prisoners in Guantanamo. A photo showing a hand holding a GPS device is simply no evidence, it could have been taken anywehre, after the incident, with a manipulated device. We (the public) simply don't now, and will not know as long as there is no analogue air or satellite picture showing the boats and the coastline so that the exact position can be calculated. And even that could be forged. Even easier with digital images.

I don't trust anybody concerning this incident.

[RedMenace]

Y'all do realize that the US does the exact same thing, right? This isn't anything new or unsual folks, go back to bed.:shifty:

[ASWnut101]

Really?

[Skybird]

Really?

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/docs/Torture_Report_Final_version.pdf

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=30530

[ASWnut101]

Intresting. I hardly call most of that tourture, but I can see a few slipping though the cracks. No biggie, they got what they deserved, I think.

[fatty]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S

Human rights organizations do pick up on these things (http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran). The reason why there won't be a huge stink about it is that Iran is practically an authoritarian state. Articles like the OP are just icing on the cake; we have come to expect this kind of treatment from Iran. It's not news. Was anyone expecting the prisoners to be treated better than they actually were? I expected worse.

The US, on the other hand, is imbued with liberal principles - e.g. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - and other certain "unalienable" rights which, well, start edging on alienable when people get locked away and tortured without being given a reason. This is not really congruent with these principles, so it's more shocking for the public.

[JSLTIGER]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S
Human rights organizations do pick up on these things (http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran). The reason why there won't be a huge stink about it is that Iran is practically an authoritarian state. Articles like the OP are just icing on the cake; we have come to expect this kind of treatment from Iran. It's not news. Was anyone expecting the prisoners to be treated better than they actually were? I expected worse.

The US, on the other hand, is imbued with liberal principles - e.g. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - and other certain "unalienable" rights which, well, start edging on alienable when people get locked away and tortured without being given a reason. This is not really congruent with these principles, so it's more shocking for the public.
However, this raises the unanswered question, which is, are non-US citizens protected by the freedoms granted in the Constitution? This question has not yet been resolved, and until it is, the Bush administration will probably continue to operate under the assumption that non-US citizens do not have the Constitutional guarantees.

[Ishmael]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S
Human rights organizations do pick up on these things (http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran). The reason why there won't be a huge stink about it is that Iran is practically an authoritarian state. Articles like the OP are just icing on the cake; we have come to expect this kind of treatment from Iran. It's not news. Was anyone expecting the prisoners to be treated better than they actually were? I expected worse.

The US, on the other hand, is imbued with liberal principles - e.g. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - and other certain "unalienable" rights which, well, start edging on alienable when people get locked away and tortured without being given a reason. This is not really congruent with these principles, so it's more shocking for the public.
However, this raises the unanswered question, which is, are non-US citizens protected by the freedoms granted in the Constitution? This question has not yet been resolved, and until it is, the Bush administration will probably continue to operate under the assumption that non-US citizens do not have the Constitutional guarantees.

No. Technically they are not protected under the constitution. However, They are protected by the UN's Human Rights Charter, of which the US is a signatory and therefore bound by under international law. But then, what does this admin. care about human rights or international law?

[Yahoshua]

What does the U.N. care for human rights unless it is about condemning Israel while ignoring the greater problems in Darfur?

[Skybird]

Intresting. I hardly call most of that tourture, but I can see a few slipping though the cracks. No biggie, they got what they deserved, I think.
They got what they deserved? Prove it, show the evidence, at least the hints. You can't. Counterchecking the Guantanamo is actively prevented.. You know nothing about why somebody is being send there - amongst others also in YOUR name. That's what is wrong with that system. That's what a legal system usually tries to make sure: that's it's acts and decisions can be counterchecked from outside the legal system. That is what basic democratic oprinciples are about: counter checking, "checks and balance", that no authority of executive, legislative, government can ever be totally beyond control. In guantanamo, you have just arbitrary ruling, and the public, like you, forms opinions about wether it is justified or not not even on the basis of hear-say, but only - by personal, unfounded imagination. It is about making it acceptable, and prevent opposing opinions. for the same reason why Bush only talks about war in terror, but never about the war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, gobal military opoerations that are specified in name and definition - he hopes that all these wars will be unopposed if he loinks them to this idiitoic word-construction "war on terror". Ridiculous. It seems that the democrats currently are enforcing new word-regulations in the defense ministry that are aiming at preventing this generalization to deceive the public. That is good.

What is also wrong is the possebilities of arbitrarily arresting someone without that someone having any chance to ever proove his innocence. If I would travel to the US, and would be held for somebody else at the harbour or airport, and get arrested, I can loose years of my life, being held, being tortured and mistreated, and afterwards having no chance to ever demand any form of compensation, or even an excuse - nothing. This has already happened a lot of times to foreigners beign happy to have been picked up. I can not call anybody outside who could proove they got the wrong man. I must not even be charged with any accusation. Hell, by the laws of your country American secret agents even can kidnapp me from my home in Germany, and get me there. THIS IS IN NO WAY ANY DIFFERENT FROM THE GESTAPO SYSTEM: IT IS NOT DIFFERENT AT ALL. IT IMAKES MOCKERY OF THE AMERICAN STANDARDS CONCERNING JUSTICE AND LEGAL SYSTEM, IT SEVERLY DEGRADES MUCH OF WHAT WAS AND IS GOOD IN AMERICAN HISTORY, AND IS A CRYING SHAME FOR THE UNITED STATES. -

Strange that you can't see the torture in it; for me privately as well as fro an ex-professional perspective when I dealt with torture victims from the Balkans, it is crystal clear. I expect you to accept torture only when it is about electro-shocks, cuts with knifes, bleeding wounds, lots of blood and using white-glowing iron on naked skin, then? I wonder if you would think the same way if you would be made subject to the hospitality of Guantanamo. Don't believe every silly wordgame your stupig "president" or Cheney is playing on you. "alternative forms of interrogations"? What about an alternative form of hospitality, then...? Alternative forms of interrogation are methods of torture that try to mimic a non-torturing treatment, and hide from the public where pain and suffering and fear of death is inflicted during interrogation.

Guantanamo is a shame for your country. Get rid of it, and get rid of those criminals who talked you into accepting it. America should and mujst be better than this.

[GlobalExplorer]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S

C'mon, you can take this as a compliment. Despite the recent developments the US is still perceived as a pillar of civilization. That's why the current government won't get away with what they've done.

Only if torture and disregard for foreigners becomes accepted in the most civilized countries, we are in real trouble.

[fredbass]

If those who were detained were terrorists or prisoners of war then maybe I wouldn't object to the way they were treated, but Iran is not at war with Britain.

IMO, there's a big distinction between that situation and a few others that some people are so quick to compare.

[STEED]

What does the U.N. care for human rights unless it is about condemning Israel while ignoring the greater problems in Darfur?

I see you spotted the UN flaw. :hmm:


This country must in sure this sort of thing never happens again.

[Skybird]

If those who were detained were terrorists or prisoners of war then maybe I wouldn't object to the way they were treated, but Iran is not at war with Britain.

IMO, there's a big distinction between that situation and a few others that some people are so quick to compare.
Nevertheless you must proove that they are terrorists - instead of holding them for years and years without court procedures. When you are basing your argument on "If those who were detained were terrorists or prisoners of war then..." - you still must make sure that there are counter-checkable procedures to examine if they really are what you imagine they are.

I suspect you of being a terrorist, fredbass. I send you to jail that is not operating by legal standards, because I label you to be an illegal terrorist. I am accepting that you will be tortured, and call that alternative interrogations. Because if you were not a terrorist, you wouldn't be in jail. - Is that the kind of "logic" you want your legal system being run by? Do you want your children being made subject of such procedures? What separates you from your enemies being mislead by similiar queer distortions of logic, caused by their inhumane religious beliefs? You two are of the same kind if you both behave in the same way.

Imaginations, assumptions, hear-say - all that does not and cannot replace the need of evidence and prooving the guilt of the accused - within reasonable time-frames. Not years and years.

[Godalmighty83]

the iranians are now ask for a goodwill gesture of britian for thanks for releasing the 15.

how about -'in thanks we promise not to go into iranian waters kidnap sailors and use them for idiotic and obvious political posturing'

[fredbass]

Imaginations, assumptions, hear-say - all that does not and cannot replace the need of evidence and prooving the guilt of the accused - within reasonable time-frames. Not years and years.

Yes, I am making some assumptions as you have. It's just that my assumptions are somewhat different that yours. People have been released without spending years and some have not. I have much more faith in what my government does to its prisoners than what most other governments would do, though I'm sure you would disagree. :roll:

[fredbass]

the iranians are now ask for a goodwill gesture of britian for thanks for releasing the 15.

how about -'in thanks we promise not to go into iranian waters kidnap sailors and use them for idiotic and obvious political posturing'

How about this gesture:

-Don't take our soldiers again because we won't be so nice next time- :yep: :know:

[1mPHUNit0]

Nevertheless you must proove that they are terrorists
Ummmm
It's a political question.
They are political Prisioniers.
And USA have a lot of political Prisoners jailed

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

A couple of questions. Are these folks in the military? Is the British military not voluntary? Why is it that they are under 'a lot of stress'? Do the Brits not train their soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen?

Stop treating these people as civilians. It was their job to go in harms way. This 'OMG' my poor child syndrome has to end. These people knew or should have known that their job will put them in danger. This isn't a game we play on our computers. It is real life.

This is not an "if-or" statement. I'd argue that they made the smart and equally courageous choice. It is not physically courageous, certainly. But then, physical courage is easy (relatively) or at least common. Countless Japanese died showing how common it is in WWII, as do Palestinian car-bombers, 9/11 kamikaze hijackers ... etc.

Their decision to talk was not only self-preserving, but morally courageous. Freeing yourselves from the shackles of ironbound rules and traditions to make an intelligent decision requires this moral courage. Loss of telling to country = minimal to none. Loss of not cooperating = great personal pain, probable eventual acquiesance and damage to national morale from loss of personnel. Decision = Cooperate.

In pure quantity, moral courage may or may not be higher than physical courage. What's definite is that it is a much rarer trait. Countless Japanese died because they lacked the moral courage to buck their tradition and laws. Moral courage is generally so lacking it can't be invoked in experimental situations (see, Milgram).

No doubt self-preservation played a part, but this moral courage might have been the other part of it too.

[Yahoshua]

Really Imp? We jail political protestors at every rally and send them to guantan? Interesting that I didn't hear anything about it until you mentioned it. Could you be so kind as to provide us with evidence of this?

[Fish]

Now the qustion remains (one for another topic, maby): Were they in Iraninan waters?

I think they were not. If they were they should have backup and not come in poorly armed inflatable's..

[Skybird]

Imaginations, assumptions, hear-say - all that does not and cannot replace the need of evidence and prooving the guilt of the accused - within reasonable time-frames. Not years and years.

Yes, I am making some assumptions as you have. It's just that my assumptions are somewhat different that yours. People have been released without spending years and some have not. I have much more faith in what my government does to its prisoners than what most other governments would do, though I'm sure you would disagree. :roll:


You just have given up the traditional basis of legal system in a democratic environment. You are accepting to run justice by hear-say and imagination - instead of evidence, checks and balances. However you call it - it has nothing to do with a democratic understanding of a "state", but a tyranny. believing you can a lot. What you actually can gain knowledge about - this is what decides democracy. A president ruling that certain checks and balances are no longer conducted, and shall be unavailable to the people, the public, the outside - such a president has striking similiarities with Big Brother, and should make you worry about your country.

Such thinking has not much to do anymore with the America of the past that came to help to defeat the Nazis. Maybe exactly the opposite.

Democracy is not about blind belief, or blind trust. It is about this: checks and balances, the majority deciding the general course, justice oin the basis of what is to be proven, not on the basis of trusting hear-say of lobbies. What you just said is calling for the strong Führer whom you believe in. And that is alarming an attitude.

In the past, I sometimes was rethoricallyy asked how it could have happened that Germans fell for their Führer, and did not perceive the truth and acted while their still was time. Look at what Bush is doing to your country, then you know the answer.

[Fish]

though I'm sure you would disagree. :roll:

Yes we do! :cool:

[1mPHUNit0]

Really Imp? We jail political protestors at every rally and send them to guantan? Interesting that I didn't hear anything about it until you mentioned it. Could you be so kind as to provide us with evidence of this? Mumia abu Jamal
One of them..but there are many in the past and in the present,
in guantam and in others jails

[fredbass]

You just have given up the traditional basis of legal system in a democratic environment. You are accepting to run justice by hear-say and imagination - instead of evidence, checks and balances.

Don't assume what I am assuming. :yep: :lol:

[Yahoshua]

Doesn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumia_Abu-Jamal) sound like a political prisoner to me.

[1mPHUNit0]

Doesn't sound like a political prisoner to me. Yes sure, he is.
And
Debbie Sims Africa
Charles Sims Africa
Delbert Orr Africa
Edward Good man Africa
Janet Holloway Africa
Janine Phillips Africa
Michael Davis Africa
William Phillips Africa

And many others, but MOVE and Mumya was linked

[1mPHUNit0]

And
Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter patty valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, my god, they killed them all!
Here comes the story of the hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Three bodies lyin there does patty see
And another man named bello, movin around mysteriously.
I didnt do it, he says, and he throws up his hands
I was only robbin the register, I hope you understand.
I saw them leavin, he says, and he stops
One of us had better call up the cops.
And so patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin
In the hot new jersey night.

Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin carter and a couple of friends are drivin around.
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda **** was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that.
In paterson thats just the way things go.
If youre black you might as well not show up on the street
less you wanna draw the heat.

Alfred bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops.
Him and arthur dexter bradley were just out prowlin around
He said, I saw two men runnin out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates.
And miss patty valentine just nodded her head.
Cop said, wait a minute, boys, this ones not dead
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men.

Four in the mornin and they haul rubin in,
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs.
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin eye
Says, whad you bring him in here for? he aint the guy!
Yes, heres the story of the hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Four months later, the ghettos are in flame,
Rubins in south america, fightin for his name
While arthur dexter bradleys still in the robbery game
And the cops are puttin the screws to him, lookin for somebody to blame.
Remember that murder that happened in a bar?
Remember you said you saw the getaway car?
You think youd like to play ball with the law?
Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin that night?
Dont forget that you are white.

Arthur dexter bradley said, Im really not sure.
Cops said, a poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and were talkin to your friend bello
Now you dont wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow.
Youll be doin society a favor.
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin braver.
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He aint no gentleman jim.

Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much.
Its my work, hed say, and I do it for pay
And when its over Id just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail.
But then they took him to the jailhouse
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse.

All of rubins cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made rubins witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy ******.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The d.a. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.

Rubin carter was falsely tried.
The crime was murder one, guess who testified?
Bello and bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride.
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fools hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldnt help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.

Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While rubin sits like buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell.
Thats the story of the hurricane,
But it wont be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time hes done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

[Yahoshua]

Ah...I see where you're getting your source from:

http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/pplist-alpha.shtml

Course this source is plain old recycled http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Smilies/bs.gif

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/Smilies/drinkcoffee.gif

[1mPHUNit0]

Ah...I see where you're getting your source from:
No dear.
They are all my friends
I know they, and Ramona Africa
And i have read all the books of Mumia Abu Jamal
and Move ones

[Takeda Shingen]

We are wandering. This thread is about Iran. Free Mumia in your own topic.

Thank you,
The Management

[Iceman]

:help: :gulp: :lost:S.O.B. Save Our Brits or Butts.... :) jk

Someone made a good point on how "Retarded" a move this was seeing how Iran is not at war with anyone and to make a move such as this was very provactive....end of line.

Don't try to tell me Skybird they thought 12 men in rubber boats was an invasion fleet and how they have a right to defend they're waters...lol.

This
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Aleutians/img/USN-CN-Aleutians-14.gif
or this
http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/vietnam-photos/images/seal-team-one.gif

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Someone made a good point on how "Retarded" a move this was seeing how Iran is not at war with anyone and to make a move such as this was very provactive....end of line.

Don't try to tell me Skybird they thought 12 men in rubber boats was an invasion fleet and how they have a right to defend they're waters...lol.

They probably didn't, but assuming for the moment the Iranians did actually believe the boat was in Iranian waters, are you saying they should allow this violation to go unanswered? Should they wait till the Americans begin intruding with an Aegis cruiser before reacting?

[baggygreen]

One look at the guys faces who were awarded the medals by president alphabet says to me "what am i doing here? i think im about to be executed for following orders.."

I suggest the answer is similar to what a bloke said on the news here.. that Iran released the prisoners because england opened up back door diplomacy with them, which amounts to a degree of respect. remember, historically persians have always placed a great deal of store by respect, proper manners and so on when dealing with other nations.

course, i'll just reiterate that the only respect id show em is dropping 2 nukes rather than 1..

[moose1am]

OK Hypothetically lets agree that the Brits were mistakenly in Iranian claimed waters. Now was it still appropriate for the Iranians to take them at gunpoint? Maybe they could have just escorted them out of what they thought were Iranian waters? I mean they were not stealing any Iranian Assets at the time now where they?
'

Someone made a good point on how "Retarded" a move this was seeing how Iran is not at war with anyone and to make a move such as this was very provactive....end of line.

Don't try to tell me Skybird they thought 12 men in rubber boats was an invasion fleet and how they have a right to defend they're waters...lol.

They probably didn't, but assuming for the moment the Iranians did actually believe the boat was in Iranian waters, are you saying they should allow this violation to go unanswered? Should they wait till the Americans begin intruding with an Aegis cruiser before reacting?

[bradclark1]

Someone made a good point on how "Retarded" a move this was seeing how Iran is not at war with anyone and to make a move such as this was very provactive....end of line.

Don't try to tell me Skybird they thought 12 men in rubber boats was an invasion fleet and how they have a right to defend they're waters...lol.

They probably didn't, but assuming for the moment the Iranians did actually believe the boat was in Iranian waters, are you saying they should allow this violation to go unanswered? Should they wait till the Americans begin intruding with an Aegis cruiser before reacting?
Thats where voice comes in "Hey, get the hell out of my yard!"

[Iceman]

Someone made a good point on how "Retarded" a move this was seeing how Iran is not at war with anyone and to make a move such as this was very provactive....end of line.

Don't try to tell me Skybird they thought 12 men in rubber boats was an invasion fleet and how they have a right to defend they're waters...lol.

They probably didn't, but assuming for the moment the Iranians did actually believe the boat was in Iranian waters, are you saying they should allow this violation to go unanswered? Should they wait till the Americans begin intruding with an Aegis cruiser before reacting?

You are trying to draw similarites between rubber boats and an Ageis Cruiser huh?
Your arguement has no weight and no matter what you say it was a dumb move on they're part but hey...it's par for the course as far as I see it....can't wait for the next episode of "Iran Roulette".

[Tchocky]

OK Hypothetically lets agree that the Brits were mistakenly in Iranian claimed waters. Now was it still appropriate for the Iranians to take them at gunpoint? Maybe they could have just escorted them out of what they thought were Iranian waters? I mean they were not stealing any Iranian Assets at the time now where they?
If they were in Iranian waters, and armed, the iranians have a lot of options.
What would the UK do if an Iranian Kilo surfaced outside the limit, and sent in an inflatable boat?
What would the US do in the same situation? Off Galveston, or Bangor....

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

You are trying to draw similarites between rubber boats and an Ageis Cruiser huh?
Your arguement has no weight and no matter what you say it was a dumb move on they're part but hey...it's par for the course as far as I see it....can't wait for the next episode of "Iran Roulette".

I'm referring to an escalation once the West finds out Iran would tolerate things in their waters. First a helicopter, then a frigate, then a cruiser. Certainly this kind of "give inch, take yard" mentality is certainly what many in the West would think of Iran. It is hardly unreasonable that they harbor similar thoughts about the West.

Besides, if you assume that the rubber boats were in Iranian waters, then it is a breach of the law. Laws that, let's face it, were nominally drawn collectively by many nations but in fact are already greatly tilted towards the advantage of maritime powers (read, mostly the West). Is stealing 5 dollars not a crime just because it is 5 dollars?

[TteFAboB]

What would the US do in the same situation? Off Galveston, or Bangor....

What is the purpose and mission of the inflatable boat? If it came out of a Kilo they probably have a mission different from routine inspection of merchant vessels & information gathering from crews. They are probably special forces operatives on a special mission. Are they headed to a merchant vessel? Or to land? If the latter, intercept, fire warning shots untill they surrender. Be prepared to stop them at land. If the former, let them board the ship where they'll be stuck and ready to be arrested. If at any point you believe them to be carrying a nuclear artifact, shoot to incapacitate the crew. Keep track of the Kilo at all times, ready to sink it at any moment. Don't take any chances. They've gone through the trouble of getting a Diesel submarine all the way across the Atlantic and we were never able to discover it untill they surfaced. They certainly have an important objective, unless they have come to desert (if they're deserting they will probably be carrying white-flags). And we certainly need to improve our intelligence & submarine detection capabilities to prevent another Diesel boat from being able to leave Iran undetected, sail around Africa or the Mediterranean undetected and finally cross the Atlantic ocean undetected and reach our shores undetected.

I'm referring to an escalation once the West finds out Iran would tolerate things in their waters.

The same thing applies to Iran. Today we get a little closer to the border, tomorrow we cross it, the day after tomorrow we routinely travel beyond our waters and finally one day we attack Iraq/Kuwait. Why is Iran exempted from any of the demands you make to everybody else?