Kawanishi Type 97 (H6K) "Mavis" speed checked out good

[ElAurens]

By measuring their flight paths on the map we have found that the Kawanishi Navy Type 97 Flying-boat (H6K), Allied code name "Mavis", is making about 350 to 400 mph in the game.

According to the TAIC (Technical Air Intelligence Center) manual the Mavis has a top speed of 216mph at 6200 feet and an economical cruise speed of 145mph at 1500 feet.

http://avions.legendaires.free.fr/Images/Gh6k.jpg

[tater]

There are 2 numbers for speed in the cfg, min and max. The min says 60, the max says 185. Anyone know what the units are? m/s?

tater

[Drebbel]

By measuring their flight paths on the map we have found that the Kawanishi Navy Type 97 Flying-boat (H6K), Allied code name "Mavis", is making about 350 to 400 mph in the game.

According to the TAIC (Technical Air Intelligence Center) manual the Mavis has a top speed of 216mph at 6200 feet and an economical cruise speed of 145mph at 1500 feet.


How about the other air units ? Are they about correct ?

[sea enemy]

There are 2 numbers for speed in the cfg, min and max. The min says 60, the max says 185. Anyone know what the units are? m/s?

Sounds like knots to me..That'd be the most plausable for that range.

edit:yep, I believe it's knots..matches my data for the H6K4 at max speed)

[ElAurens]

How about the other air units ? Are they about correct ?

No.

[tater]

If it's knots, then the numbers are meaningless since as el aurens points out they demonstrably move at speeds far faster. I was hoping that a change in that number in the cfg file might drop their speed, but if it says 185 and they do 400, what would I change it to?

[John Channing]

I understand the Subs in Falcon 5.0 can't go faster than 6 knots, but I have never checked.

JCC

[BBury]

One way to tell is to time them. If they cover more than 3.5nm in less than a minute they're going too fast.

[Charos]

By measuring their flight paths on the map we have found that the Kawanishi Navy Type 97 Flying-boat (H6K), Allied code name "Mavis", is making about 350 to 400 mph in the game.

According to the TAIC (Technical Air Intelligence Center) manual the Mavis has a top speed of 216mph at 6200 feet and an economical cruise speed of 145mph at 1500 feet.


This if confirmed may explain higher than expected air cover density as the patrols are being calculated at top speed for each air unit rather than economical cruise.

Which may in effect increase the actual air coverage by 30% as they can cover more distance for a given fuel payload.

If the config files only provide a min and max values it seem probable the calculations will be off as it does not have any other value on which to calculate patrols on.

[Charos]

Here are some things to chew over:

A link to H6K Data http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/h6k.htm


Model H6K4 - 127 Units produced (most representitive of this AC)



184 kt at 4,000 m Maximum speed

120 kt at 4,000 m Cruising speed

Max speed fits very well if we consider cfg figures in Knots.

So at 184Knots the H6K can patrol 6,800 Km^2 per hour in SH4.
And if this was at 120 Knots it would be only 4,400Km^2 per hour in SH4.

These figures assume 20Km wide search path which is again in CFG file data.

This AC has an endurance of approx 18Hrs.

Which means in essence the H6K can patrol 42,480Km^2 MORE on one tank of fuel than it should be able to.


Not only this but on an attack run where the AC is already at top speed upon initital approach to bombing its target the difference is:


Distance to your submarine IE: Plane spotted long distance 8km range.

Top speed: 5.6Km per minute 1 min 25 Seconds closure time.
Cruise speed: 3.7Km per minute 2 Min 10 Seconds closure time.


You should expect perhaps 20 seconds more time than we have as the enemy AC picks up speed from cruise upon attack.

[BBury]

I did some ingame testing of the H6K and it's speed came out right. Sorry El, I didn't mean to lead you astray and certainly didn't expect you to post this. My fault.

The speed of the H6K is good. I set the H6K at 1000m and 185kts (185/60= 3.08nm per minute). Once in the game I layed out a 3.1 nm circle around my boat. The plane took exactly 1 minute to cover the distance.

This is the only plane I tested.

Having said that, this is maximum speed. Do the planes in the game have the ability to cruise at thier maximum speed for thier maximum range?

More testing is in order. I guess lay out a max range waypoint at max speed and see if it'll make it? Also, payload effects range.

BB

[walsh2509]

One way to tell is to time them. If they cover more than 3.5nm in less than a minute they're going too fast.


I was either a Val or a Zero coming at me , on the map I did a qucik line the contact was moving towards me in, it was about 6km long. The plane covered it in less an a 1min. rough est .. 360km ph

[tater]

If the speed is right (max) then we could chenge the max value to the cruising speed I guess.

[Von Hinten]

... Allied code name "Mavis", is making about 350 to 400 mph in the game.
Mine only go down with that speed ... but I agree that they tend to 'get there fast' once spotted. And then my gun crew has fun with them ... :up:

The thing that bothers me more is how the heck they find me in the first place. When my radar picks them up they come from a very long distance, flying straight at me. :o

[BBury]

... Allied code name "Mavis", is making about 350 to 400 mph in the game.
Mine only go down with that speed ... but I agree that they tend to 'get there fast' once spotted. And then my gun crew has fun with them ... :up:

The thing that bothers me more is how the heck they find me in the first place. When my radar picks them up they come from a very long distance, flying straight at me. :o

Yes, this has been posted elsewhere. They always know where you are in a straight line.

I got in the habit of drawing 400nm circles from the edges of all Japanese help territory. This seems to be the extent of the range for most planes if not coming off a carrier. If you stay out of these circles, or expect discovery once inside them, it helps with game play.

[walsh2509]

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/a6m.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/b5n.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/d3a.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/h6k.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/g4m.htm

[Von Hinten]

I got in the habit of drawing 400nm circles from the edges of all Japanese help territory. This seems to be the extent of the range for most planes if not coming off a carrier. If you stay out of these circles, or expect discovery once inside them, it helps with game play.
I got that map of the game nearby to do the same thing, but since my sub is in the dropping agents ashore business I have no choice to go in those areas.

I have a simple rule though, two contacts: I dive, 1 contact: I shred it.

There is a rather easy way to make it rather hard for them to hit you and that is to wait until I can see them in the binoculars and when they are within range of my gunners I'll go flank ahead and make a sharp turn directly towards them. Makes them miss their bombs 10 of 10 times (so far) and then they get a goodbye present from my flak crew. ;)

[ElAurens]

:oops:

Boy, do I feel sillly now. Sorry gents.

None the less the aircraft do indeed have problems. None of the patrol aircraft (H6K, H8K. or Allied types for that matter) should be cruising at their maximum speed. There is also the problem with their weapons loadouts, and more importantly their frequency and tactics. During a coop I was in last night (after you left Bury) I saw an H8K "Emily" fly over the scene of the battle, pull straight up, do a wing over into a dive and drop bombs. No 4 engined flying boat could ever do that, even one as good as the Emily was in real life. It seems all aircraft are coded to behave like single engine fighters.

[SteamWake]

I understand the Subs in Falcon 5.0 can't go faster than 6 knots, but I have never checked.

JCC

I think they missed the point JC

[akdavis]

I understand the Subs in Falcon 5.0 can't go faster than 6 knots, but I have never checked.

JCC

I think they missed the point JC

I didn't, but I think it is a point without a point. ;)

[Hylander_1314]

One thing concerning the Mavis, is when they attack your boat, they dive bomb like an Aichi Type 97 Val. If anything they should be performing a glide bombing run, in a very shallow dive so as not rip the wings off. PBY Catalina Squadrons did the same thing when pressed into an offensive roll to assist in a big battle.

Also, they should be pulling out at about 1,500ft. where I've watched them get as low as 50ft during a pullout. This would mean that a diving attack shouldn't surpass the 130 to 150mph mark to give the plane time to pull out of it's attacking dive. The pullout altitude was usualy 1,000, to 1,500ft. as the altimeters of the day were less and less accurate the lower you flew. And beloww 100ft above sea level they were pretty much so useless.

That is why 617 Squadron used two small spot lights that created a figure eight pattern on the water to maintain the 60ft altitude above the water to use the skip bombs during the attacks on the dams in the Ruhr Valley.

Also, I've watched the multi engine planes turn like single engine fighters. Remember that there were no hydraulic assists in the surface controls. The Boeing B-17 had the first "servo" assistance in the flight controls, and the B-17 was restricted to a 70 degree maximum banking turn, as the controls would become too heavy to try to correct, and could result in a fatal crash. So the flight characteristics for these multi engined planes should be adjusted so the planes are more docile than single engined planes. Wider more gentle turns, and more of a level bombing approach, instead of "dive bombing".

Even the G4M Betty turns like a Zero/Zeke fighter, which is to tight. The average should be a 30 to 45 degree bank even for these twin engine bombers.

This is just an observation, but I don't know if the flight dynamics in the game allow for these adjustments.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I understand the Subs in Falcon 5.0 can't go faster than 6 knots, but I have never checked.

JCC
I think they missed the point JC
I didn't, but I think it is a point without a point. ;)

Submarines don't try to kill you in Falcon. Thus, their speed means a whole lot less. It seems that if the aircraft in SH4 were moving at their proper speeds, you'd have a lot more reaction time. Which is "kind of a big deal".

PD