Burn the flag.

[Wxman]

Which flag? Any flag, just burn them!

Ever see Monty Python's In Pursuit of the Holy Grail? There's that one cameo that seems appropro: Burrrrrrrrrrrn her!, and the hoi polloi were set straight about their misperceptions.

I speculate that this thread my become quite inflamatory, and I urge those having a minimum of tolerance respecting the opposing point of view should just turn around and walk out.

:damn:

That'll just get thrown in my face and I'll be accused of being intolerant of intolerant ideas. I'm pretty certain this will become a nasty stinkin' cesspool of vitriol, name calling, hate mail, death threats, honor-beatings and honor-beastiality. :huh:

"Enough with the trailer already, and just get to it."

Right. Then. What follows are my opinions, and I invite anybody to respond with theirs. I believe that everybody has a right to express personal sentiments. I qualify the foregoing with the following: action is not freedom of speech. :arrgh!:

====================================

Welcome to Wonderland. Burning the American flag is a right, burning other flags is wrong. Kinda depends on who's side you're on....Amazing... the American flag doesn't matter...Hillary says the Confederate battle flag in S.C. does....I guess I'm not the Smartest Woman in the World to figure it out.

What makes you think that you have a right to post such an inflamatory thing? Not even burning your own cross is considered to be "free speech" in almost the entire world. And for some people the American flag is just as sacred as what the cross represents; and I'd hazard to say probably even more so.

Flag-burning could become crime (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6095260.stm)
By John Pienaar
Chief political correspondent for BBC Radio Five Live

Police chiefs are urging the government to make flag-burning a new criminal offence, as part of a drive to crack down on Islamic extremists and others preaching violence and religious hate, the BBC has learned.

The proposals also include action to ban demonstrators from covering their faces to avoid police scrutiny, and tougher powers to arrest demonstrators seeking to inflame tensions.

If they [the public] start to see images of people who seem to be 'getting away with it', that [the tolerance of people] starts to erode - Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur

[Excertped: BBC.co.uk]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/b4its2late/waronterror/1stupidterrorist001.jpg

Burning the American flag displays just how much the retarded, inbred, horse patty-for-brains moron liberals hate America and everything she stands for. Flag burners, by virtue of their crack whore gypsy mother having dropped them onto their hollow skull at least seven times into a nearby, cum crusted hospital dumpster, are the most pseudo-intellectually dishonest, willfully ignorant, dumb****led and confused gitty retarded excuse for an overripe rape baby abortion ever to sully the lands of this great planet.

I pwntheir asses so hard, that they're being auctioned on eBay as we speak. As a result, their mothers, who without doubt are big hairy-toed Somoan men, having teeth so rotten and covered with slime they look like a pack of dominos, are suing me in a class action law-suit for taking away the target of her affection (i.e. the wart covered, hairy, baboon's asses of flag burners collectively as a class). Flag burners are the inspiration for the **** eating videos that the Germans watch. They are like David Hasselhoff, but lamer, and with even less talent. Their mother's love is as confusing, unwarrented, and unreasonable as the French people's love for Jerry Lewis. I'm not exagerating in the least here.

These people make me wish abortion could be enforeced retroactively. Their mothers douched the best, and non-retarded part of them out of their asses before the rest was scooped off of the deck of whatever US Navy ship on which they were conceived. One of the 600 possible candidates of each and every flag burner that could be their father, found that knock-kneed skank, and shot their demon seed into her "Buckwheat in a leglock" looking snatch. The doctors needed two hours, a weedwacker, a map, and a 7 cans of WD-40 to pry you out of your mom's massive penile parking garage. It must have smelled so bad in the delivery room, the stench could have knocked a buzzard off of a ****wagon; something which would serve to do nothing more than prevent another wild animal from raping your mother for the 14th time.

Stick your finger up your ass, plug your nose, and blow really hard, and perhaps that pathetic pubic hair that you call your fetid penis will become long enough to be seen without the Hubbel telescope peering into an electron microscope. :smug:

What’s that you say? I shouldn’t use those insulting terms? I’m sorry, but you’re infringing on my First Amendment right to free speech. If we are allowed to say, write or do anything we want under the First Amendment, why do we have slander and libel laws? Is it because these laws are only intended to protect liberal beliefs from those who seek to expose them for the inanities they are? No, these laws were put into place to prevent people from abusing their rights.

Also, why does the First Amendment apply to flag burning, but not to public prayer? Is it because religious speech inspires hatred? And flag burning inspires what? Love, peace and grooviness? :yep:

I seen a cartoon that insinuated the American flag is a sacred cow. The American flag is an emblem of our freedom, our liberty, and our history. What possible reason could an American have for burning a sacred symbol of what our country stands for, other than out of pure hatred for that which it stands? If you hate this country so much, then get the f#*k out of my country! And don't let the door hit you on the backside.

Word of advice: careful where you choose to move, as you probably might not want to be publicly burning their flags; even France considers such an act of treason. :hmm:

[STEED]

As I remember I posted a thread on flag burning last year and it was a hot thread.

Found the thread.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=100363

[August]

C'mon Wxman, don't surgar coat it. Tell us how you really feel...

[ASWnut101]

Stick your finger up your ass, plug your nose, and blow really hard, and perhaps that pathetic pubic hair that you call your fetid penis will become long enough to be seen without the Hubbel telescope peering into an electron microscope. :smug:


That not good enough for you, August?:p ;)

[Kapitan_Phillips]

That post. Was hilarious.

[ASWnut101]

Truly, I'm with Weatherman in this thread, if not life. I respect people like him.

[Wxman]

As I remember I posted a thread on flag burning last year and it was a hot thread.

Found the thread.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=100363

Roger that. I think its all good for you.

:know:

[Sailor Steve]

What’s that you say? I shouldn’t use those insulting terms? I’m sorry, but you’re infringing on my First Amendment right to free speech. If we are allowed to say, write or do anything we want under the First Amendment, why do we have slander and libel laws? Is it because these laws are only intended to protect liberal beliefs from those who seek to expose them for the inanities they are? No, these laws were put into place to prevent people from abusing their rights.
Slander and libel laws protect individuals from being defamed unfairly. Nothing more.
Also, why does the First Amendment apply to flag burning, but not to public prayer? Is it because religious speech inspires hatred? And flag burning inspires what? Love, peace and grooviness? :yep:
You can pray in public. Go to any street corner and do it. Some people might look at you funny but you won't be arrested.

[GlobalExplorer]

If somebody should burn a German flag before me I would only think "what a stupid *******", otherwise ignore him and walk away peacefully.

Maybe thats the good thing about being a German. We have come to realize that a flag is nothing but a piece of cloth. Certainly not worth spilling blood for it.

Imo flag burning should be allowed, at least if all necessary precautions about firefighting have been taking.

[Sailor Steve]

GS, I agree completely. As long as he buys his own he's free to do what he wants with it. It doesn't hurt me a bit.

[GlobalExplorer]

Yeah, and it shouldn't be done in front of children because they might try to start a fire at home :up:

[cobalt]

The government should just crucify them eh? eh?

[1mPHUNit0]

I have burned flags
and you know which and why i suppose
A Palestinian like many

[waste gate]

I can think of better means of showing displeasure and rallying people to the cause than the burning of a nation's flag and alienating many people.

[SUBMAN1]

I have burned flags
and you know which and why i suppose
A Palestinian like many

I don't understand how you do this and then turn around and want help and sympathy from the very nation that you showed your complete disrespect for. It's just plain stupid, and shows great stupidity in general.

The old saying goes - Don't bite the hand that feeds you....

[Dan D]

I have burned flags
and you know which and why i suppose
A Palestinian like many

Mere flag burning is so passé now. Latest trend from America is to crap on a burning flag:

"Perhaps the most disturbing scene of the afternoon, however, involved the man who pulled down his pants in front of women and children and defecated on a burning U.S. flag. This disgusting act actually elicited cheers from some members of the crowd, but we hope that the emotion it produces in the community is one of revulsion"-
http://www.portlandtribune.com/opinion/story.php?story_id=117459283544877600

Well, can you keep up with that?

[1mPHUNit0]

Flasgs are not peoples
Flags are governaments
Governaments are not peoples will

[Ishmael]

Interesting thread. I have a question. What do you do with a flag that is distressed or tattered beyond repair? If I recall correctly, doesn't federal law dictate that the only acceptable method of disposal is burning?

[waste gate]

Interesting thread. I have a question. What do you do with a flag that is distressed or tattered beyond repair? If I recall correctly, doesn't federal law dictate that the only acceptable method of disposal is burning?

You are correct Ishmael, but the service is a humble and respectful one. But those who burn the flag for political reasons do so out of disregard and disrespect.

[Sea Demon]

If they want to burn the flag, let them. I don't want any laws to forbid that. To me, burning the flag is like a childish rant that solves nothing. Just like most protests. They accomplish absolutely nothing. Burn it up, and look like a fool doing so, IMO.

[August]

Interesting thread. I have a question. What do you do with a flag that is distressed or tattered beyond repair? If I recall correctly, doesn't federal law dictate that the only acceptable method of disposal is burning?

Burning is one way to dispose of an unservicable flag but certainly not in the middle of a city square by a bunch of jerks who dance around it squealing with glee.

[gnirtS]

Cant see any issue. Setting fire to a painted big of canvas. Its not like you've just nuked a major city is it.

Anyone offended by such things should really grow up and realise there are far more serious things in the world and not everyone shares the same views as them.

[baggygreen]

gnirtS try loooking at that piece of canvas as symbolic for something just a little bit more significant. I know i do, i, i know most my mates do, and i surmise most people do as well.

the burning of a symbol is merely another way of saying "i hate everything that this flag (or symbol) represents". You think the crazies in SW Asia and the ME burn the US (and british) flags to stay warm??

As far as im concerned, if someone is game enough to burn the flag of the country that they live in, they can bugger off someplace else, where they might not hate things as much - of course, then they'd be subject to much harsher laws, probably less social welfare and health benefits, and probably not as comfortable abodes. funny, isnt it.

[TteFAboB]

As long as they buy their flag supply from me...:up: :cool:

Nope, if I sold flags, I wouldn't sell any to them.

These geniuses are protesting against global warming one day and the next they're polluting the air and consuming cloth, ink, whatever the fabric came from and the energy spent in each of these steps.

Real smart. :know: It's people we can trust to save the planet. :rock:

[bradclark1]

If a foreigner burns a U.S. flag I couldn't care less. If an American burns the flag, that spikes out my temper meter. Luckily for me I've never been around an incident.

[gnirtS]

gnirtS try loooking at that piece of canvas as symbolic for something just a little bit more significant. I know i do, i, i know most my mates do, and i surmise most people do as well.

the burning of a symbol is merely another way of saying "i hate everything that this flag (or symbol) represents". You think the crazies in SW Asia and the ME burn the US (and british) flags to stay warm??

Makes no difference to me. So they dislike the country. Fair enough, thats their right. Most of the world now does. I've got no problem with someone choosing to express their anger by burning a flag. Again its not exactly causing carnage, loss of life or the end of the world.
People are quite entitled to like/dislike what ever they want. Stopping them burning a flag changes nothing about their hatred for something - its just another ludicrous law invented by an idiot with an irrational oversensitivity toward things.



As far as im concerned, if someone is game enough to burn the flag of the country that they live in, they can bugger off someplace else, where they might not hate things as much - of course, then they'd be subject to much harsher laws, probably less social welfare and health benefits, and probably not as comfortable abodes. funny, isnt it.

But a lot of the people doing the flag burning DONT live in the country they dislike.

[August]

See Brads reply gnirt. There's a significant difference between a foreigner burning a flag and a citizen buring his own countries flag. It's a slap in his fellow citizens faces and it's small wonder that they want to slap him back.

You have to understand, Americans tend to see the US flag as THEIR symbol, not the symbol of the government. You drive down nearly any neighborhood street in the country and you'll see US flags fluttering from houses and from poles planted in the front yard all over the place. No government man came to them and told them to put it there. They bought them and put them up on their own accord.

When you understand the depth of feeling this represents it becomes clearer why flag desecration is so frowned upon here. It's akin to someone pissing on your front doorstep. That's worth at least a punch in the nose in my book, maybe even a swift kick in the butt as well.

It's even worse when it's done by some ignorant but nonetheless self righteous young punk who is doing it mainly for the fun of griefing people and causing a sensation.

[Letum]

Burning the flag of ones own country is a sign of treason.
I have nothing wrong with treason, treason is what freed England from monarchist rule.
Treason is also what made America independent from the UK. I am sure the British colonists in America burnt one or two flags!

Treason makes the people strong and the ruling powers weak. If people are unhappy with their country, then they should have a right to show their unrest with flag burning.

:up:

[1mPHUNit0]

Treason makes the people strong and the ruling powers weak. If people are unhappy with their country, then they should have a right to show their unrest with flag burning. Hoo Yeah
I totally agree

[gnirtS]

See Brads reply gnirt. There's a significant difference between a foreigner burning a flag and a citizen buring his own countries flag. It's a slap in his fellow citizens faces and it's small wonder that they want to slap him back.
Still dont see the issue. You cant choose where you're born or your nationality. Lots of people do not like their country, its government or something else but are stuck with it. If they want to protest and burn something then so be it. Im ashamed of a lot of what Britain has done lately. Im not about to go and buy a union flag and burn it but quite happy if someone else does.
People just expressing their dislike for something is fair enough in my view. Im Welsh but if i saw someone for some reason burning the welsh flag i'd have no problem with that. Its their call.



You have to understand, Americans tend to see the US flag as THEIR symbol, not the symbol of the government.
Thats their fault for being oversensitive and intolerant towards others views.

[The Munster]

C'mon Wxman, don't surgar coat it. Tell us how you really feel...

:rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

Oh dear! oh dear! oh dear!........I wonder how long this debate will last :hmm:

[The Munster]

Has to be a candidate for a sticky :rotfl:

[August]

Thats their fault for being oversensitive and intolerant towards others views.

And what views would those be? Besides of course how fun it is to irritate others I mean...

[gnirtS]

Condemning someone that has an alternative viewpoint to them such as someone burning a flag for starters.

[SUBMAN1]

Flasgs are not peoples
Flags are governaments
Governaments are not peoples will

Ahh, wrong answer! Governments are very much the people, and they do project the peoples will. At least democratic ones are, since if they don't they do not get re-elected. That is how it works.

The simple answer is - you burn my flag, and you burn my desire to help you one iotta!

-S

[Sailor Steve]

Yes, the American flag is the symbol of everything America (and Americans) stands for. Unfortunately, the main thing America stands for is freedom. Individual liberty. Freedom to criticize and condemn, if that's the way you feel.

In order to protect the symbol of that freedom, are you willing to outlaw the freedom itself?

[Dowly]

I have burned flags
and you know which and why i suppose
A Palestinian like many

If I would see you burn Finland´s flag, I would come and rip your head off. For Finns the flag is holy, a sacred thing that reminds us of the cost we payed to keep our independence.

Oh, and I´m not joking, I would kick you butt HARD. :shifty:

[Jimbuna]

Has to be a candidate for a sticky :rotfl:

Heaven forbid :nope:

[TteFAboB]

Yes, the American flag is the symbol of everything America (and Americans) stands for. Unfortunately, the main thing America stands for is freedom. Individual liberty. Freedom to criticize and condemn, if that's the way you feel.

In order to protect the symbol of that freedom, are you willing to outlaw the freedom itself?

That's not all there is to it. Sailor Steve, what is a flag, considered in its material constitution? A bunch of fabric sewn together. You can't have a one-threaded flag, you need alot of threads arranged together to make a flag.

The freedom to burn a flag is only one thread of the issue. If you're free to burn a flag, what are you complaining about? It's not about flags then. So the other threads are the people who are burning it and why they are doing it, and chances are they're connected to a bunch of other people through other threads, such as the thread of the common goal. They don't seek to criticize or condemn. They seek rupture. These are those that deny the right of opposition, those that seek to eliminate freedom because they believe to be the vanguard of history. They use the freedom you grant them to, once in power, deny you this same freedom. They need to break free from you, because their freedom ends where yours begin. In this case, flag burning is a mere distraction to drive your focus away from them and from their goals to matters of elementary freedom. And you defend their right to burn a flag while they carry on calling for the death of a President, praising Jihad, ripping the constitution apart and claiming that opposition to them is illegitimate, thus creating confront and upheaval. Hardly people who value freedom, especially anybody else's.

The point Steve, is that you can burn a flag. But they can't. Because you recognize their right to exist, to live and to speak and you don't seek to eliminate or silence anybody. But they don't recognize yours. Personally, I'm against any law that outlaws flag-burning because that would only help them accomplish their goals, further driving the focus away from the important points to the irrelevance of the right to burn a flag.

[August]

Condemning someone that has an alternative viewpoint to them such as someone burning a flag for starters.

Condeming them to what? Our scorn? Our lack of support? Sorry. Perhaps you ought to realize just what message you're saying to others when you burn their symbol.

[August]

That's not all there is to it. Sailor Steve, what is a flag, considered in its material constitution? A bunch of fabric sewn together. You can't have a one-threaded flag, you need alot of threads arranged together to make a flag.

The freedom to burn a flag is only one thread of the issue. If you're free to burn a flag, what are you complaining about? It's not about flags then. So the other threads are the people who are burning it and why they are doing it, and chances are they're connected to a bunch of other people through other threads, such as the thread of the common goal. They don't seek to criticize or condemn. They seek rupture. These are those that deny the right of opposition, those that seek to eliminate freedom because they believe to be the vanguard of history. They use the freedom you grant them to, once in power, deny you this same freedom. They need to break free from you, because their freedom ends where yours begin. In this case, flag burning is a mere distraction to drive your focus away from them and from their goals to matters of elementary freedom. And you defend their right to burn a flag while they carry on calling for the death of a President, praising Jihad, ripping the constitution apart and claiming that opposition to them is illegitimate, thus creating confront and upheaval. Hardly people who value freedom, especially anybody else's.

The point Steve, is that you can burn a flag. But they can't. Because you recognize their right to exist, to live and to speak and you don't seek to eliminate or silence anybody. But they don't recognize yours. Personally, I'm against any law that outlaws flag-burning because that would only help them accomplish their goals, further driving the focus away from the important points to the irrelevance of the right to burn a flag.

This post deserves not to get buried on the preceeding page.

[gnirtS]

[quote=gnirtS] Perhaps you ought to realize just what message you're saying to others when you burn their symbol.

Thats their problem for being entirely intolerant of someone that may have an opposite viewpoint to their own. If someone chooses to be offended, thats their choice. However someone has just as much right to make a statement by burning a flag as the other side have to make a statement by standing behind it.

[August]

Thats their problem for being entirely intolerant of someone that may have an opposite viewpoint to their own. If someone chooses to be offended, thats their choice. However someone has just as much right to make a statement by burning a flag as the other side have to make a statement by standing behind it.

So nothing anyone could say to you can ever possibly offend you? That's hard to believe.

[waste gate]

Thats their problem for being entirely intolerant of someone that may have an opposite viewpoint to their own. If someone chooses to be offended, thats their choice. However someone has just as much right to make a statement by burning a flag as the other side have to make a statement by standing behind it.

So nothing anyone could say to you can ever possibly offend you? That's hard to believe.

I suspect the fellow doesn't believe in anything.

'If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything'.

EDIT: I take that back. gnirtS believes in upsetting people who do believe in something. I would let it go. His only contribution is to your ire.

[1mPHUNit0]

If I would see you burn Finland´s flag, I would come and rip your head off. For Finns the flag is holy, a sacred thing that reminds us of the cost we payed to keep our If I would see you burn Finland´s flag, I would come and rip your head off. For Finns the flag is holy, a sacred thing that reminds us of the cost we payed to keep our independence.
Oh, and I´m not joking, I would kick you butt HARD.
Independence, Shoa, and so on are not justification for wars
and so on dear.
And flags are not only storicals symbols but contemporary ones too.
Who burn flags burn government symbols
Sometimes nationalism it's so strong that flag it's a strong symbol,
sometimes not, and sometimes government are so ... that you have no other
option to demonstrate your disappointment
I have burned palestinian flag too to demonstrate against fatah
and you know what reminds me my flag

[Sailor Steve]

[quote=Sailor Steve]...and chances are they're connected to a bunch of other people through other threads...
I picked this out because of your use of "chances are". "Chances are" that a lot of things might be possible. "Chances are" that someone who wants to dress in the style of the country they came from might be against us. "Chances are" that someone I see on a city street late at night might mean me harm. I don't see the connection you're trying to make.

The point Steve, is that you can burn a flag. But they can't. Because you recognize their right to exist, to live and to speak and you don't seek to eliminate or silence anybody. But they don't recognize yours.
That's true, I don't seek to tear down anything; but just because someone makes a rather extreme form of protest doesn't necessarily mean that he does either.

Personally, I'm against any law that outlaws flag-burning because that would only help them accomplish their goals, further driving the focus away from the important points to the irrelevance of the right to burn a flag.
I'm against any law that outlaws flag-burning because of the famous Benjamin Franklin saying "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I'll tell you this much: if they ever do pass a law or (heaven forbid) an ammendment outlawing flag burning, I'll be one of the first ones they throw in jail.

[baggygreen]

Independence, Shoa, and so on are not justification for wars
and so on dear.


Independence is not a justification for war?? well now, what are many of your brethren doing throwing rocks at Israelis, kidnapping soldiers, etc. i thought that was all part of the struggle for an independent palestinian state.:hmm:

Tell me, is that a privately held belief, or one that you let some other palestinians know about? cos if its the latter, im surprised you havent been arrested as a spy or somethin..

[Jimbuna]

:roll: :hmm:

[TteFAboB]

@Sailor Steve: Chances are if I start calling things by their names and be as frank as you rightfully require I'll get slapped for being a bad boy. :D Trying to live together here and avoid angering my peers. Anyway,

There's the guy that dresses in the style of the country he came from and might mean harm to you at night, there's a little group of men who dress in the style of the country they came from and might mean harm to you at night, and then there's al-Qaeda who came to your country to do you harm, independently of their clothing.

just because someone makes a rather extreme form of protest doesn't necessarily mean that he does either.

True. It's not because somebody burns a flag that they fit into that description. The form of their protest does matter, but being a "peaceful" protest (even though on the verge of it), what matters most are their demands.

I'll tell you this much: if they ever do pass a law or (heaven forbid) an ammendment outlawing flag burning, I'll be one of the first ones they throw in jail.

And I'll be one of the first to raise money to pay your bail. :rotfl:

Which means we'll have one champion of freedom busy fighting for universal freedom while the scum of the Earth runs free.

Maybe you can stop people from burning flags but then they'll switch to burning dummies, or burning other flags, like fake flags. A ban will not stop any of the people denounced here by those who agreed with it. We shouldn't burn flags not because it's illegal, but because it's stupid. Those who seek to eliminate freedom and burn flags in a protest are not a problem because of the latter but because of the former. And we should aim and strike at that point.

[RedMenace]

I have nothing against flag-burnings, nothing at all. A flag is a symbol of the government, not a symbol of the people. Never a symbol of the people, whatever sentiment people have torwards their flag is their deal, but the flag repersents the state in power, that's all.

When you burn a flag, you repersent your distaste at what the government is/has chosen to do. Nothing wrong with protesting. The minute you stop protesting is the minute the government tears out your heart.

Now, I don't burn flags, I don't have the time, nor any personal reason to. But as sailor steve said, if they outlaw burning flags, I'd be the first (or second, I guess :p) they throw in jail.

[TteFAboB]

I see I'll be running out of money pretty fast! :damn:

If flag burning is outlawed they better make it unbailable! :rotfl:

[August]

I have nothing against flag-burnings, nothing at all. A flag is a symbol of the government, not a symbol of the people. Never a symbol of the people, whatever sentiment people have torwards their flag is their deal, but the flag repersents the state in power, that's all.

Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.

[1mPHUNit0]

Independence is not a justification for war?? well now, what are many of your brethren doing throwing rocks at Israelis, kidnapping soldiers, etc. i thought that was all part of the struggle for an independent palestinian state. One thing it's war
One thing it's resistance and uprising
One thing it's occupation and violation of international laws like ONU
resolutions
One thing it's Independence
One thing it's to be occupated
One thing it's liberation from an occupation

You call all wars, but it's not so.
We are not conqueriors

[August]

Independence is not a justification for war?? well now, what are many of your brethren doing throwing rocks at Israelis, kidnapping soldiers, etc. i thought that was all part of the struggle for an independent palestinian state. One thing it's war
One thing it's resistance and uprising
One thing it's occupation and violation of international laws like ONU
resolutions
One thing it's Independence
One thing it's to be occupated
One thing it's liberation from an occupation

You call all wars, but it's not so.
We are not conqueriors

Those are indeed wars. After all what else could you call sending your young people, strapped with explosives, to blow themselves up in a crowded Israeli market or nightclub? Murder?

[baggygreen]

"negotiation"???:doh: :down:

[Jimbuna]

Independence is not a justification for war?? well now, what are many of your brethren doing throwing rocks at Israelis, kidnapping soldiers, etc. i thought that was all part of the struggle for an independent palestinian state. One thing it's war
One thing it's resistance and uprising
One thing it's occupation and violation of international laws like ONU
resolutions
One thing it's Independence
One thing it's to be occupated
One thing it's liberation from an occupation

You call all wars, but it's not so.
We are not conqueriors

Those are indeed wars. After all what else could you call sending your young people, strapped with explosives, to blow themselves up in a crowded Israeli market or nightclub? Murder?
:roll: :hmm:

[RedMenace]

I have nothing against flag-burnings, nothing at all. A flag is a symbol of the government, not a symbol of the people. Never a symbol of the people, whatever sentiment people have torwards their flag is their deal, but the flag repersents the state in power, that's all.
Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.

Who's "we"?

[August]

I have nothing against flag-burnings, nothing at all. A flag is a symbol of the government, not a symbol of the people. Never a symbol of the people, whatever sentiment people have torwards their flag is their deal, but the flag repersents the state in power, that's all.
Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.
Who's "we"?
My countrymen of course. Every person who hangs an American flag on their home or an American flag sticker on their automobile proclaims their ownership of that symbol. Do you think all those millions of people are government representatives?

[Enigma]

Seeing my flag(s) burned makes my blood boil. however, it should never be illegal.

Also, keep in mind that any time politicians talk about flag burning, it has nothing to do with flag burning.

[Sailor Steve]

I have nothing against flag-burnings, nothing at all. A flag is a symbol of the government, not a symbol of the people. Never a symbol of the people, whatever sentiment people have torwards their flag is their deal, but the flag repersents the state in power, that's all.

Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.
The only quibble I have with that is that "We" don't all agree. That's why we have freedom.

Seeing my flag(s) burned makes my blood boil. however, it should never be illegal.

Also, keep in mind that any time politicians talk about flag burning, it has nothing to do with flag burning.
Now THAT I agree with.:rock:

[1mPHUNit0]

After all what else could you call sending your young people, strapped with explosives, to blow themselves up in a crowded Israeli market or nightclub? Murder?A response to other acts very similar and much more palestinian and lubnanin deads,
and why?

[gnirtS]

[quote=gnirtS]
So nothing anyone could say to you can ever possibly offend you? That's hard to believe.

Why get offended about petty things like that? Its hardly anything important or life changing. So someone dislikes something someone else happens to like. Yeah thats really worth getting worked up about. If people dont like that then tough - everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and expression of them.

[gnirtS]

[quote=RedMenace]
Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.

Crap. It represents to YOU personally one take on it. Others may and do disagree. Their view is just as valid as yours. Until elected supreme ruler of the world you opinion of what a flag represents is just that - a personal view of one person. No more than that.

[bradclark1]

Who's "we"?

Me for one!

[August]

[quote=RedMenace]
Well thank you for your opinion but our flag represents what we say it represents, and it isn't for you or anyone else to tell us otherwise.
Crap. It represents to YOU personally one take on it. Others may and do disagree. Their view is just as valid as yours. Until elected supreme ruler of the world you opinion of what a flag represents is just that - a personal view of one person. No more than that.

Look gnirt. I'm not telling you how you and your fellow countrymen should feel about your flag so please don't be telling me and mine how we should feel about ours.

[August]

Who's "we"?
Me for one!

:up:

[Platapus]

Ya know, I don't like people burning our flag; but if they do, it does not diminish my feelings for my country in the slightest.

My feelings for my country come from within, and honestly nothing anyone can do or say will change my love for my country.

[bradclark1]

Ragged Old Flag

I walked through a county courthouse square,
On a park bench an old man was sitting there.
I said, Your old courthouse is kinda run down.
He said, Naw, it'll do for our little town.

I said, Your flagpole has leaned a little bit,
And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it.
He said, Have a seat, and I sat down.
Is this the first time you've been to our little town?

I said, I think it is. He said, I don't like to brag,
But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag.
You see, we got a little hole in that flag there
When Washington took it across the Delaware.

And it got a bad rip in New Orleans
With Packingham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams.
And it almost fell at the Alamo
Beside the Texas flag, but she waved on though.

She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard, and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag.

On Flanders Field in World War I
She got a big hole from a Bertha gun.
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp and low a time or two.

She was in Korea and Vietnam.
She went where she was sent by her Uncle Sam.
She waved from our ships upon the briny foam,
And now they've about quit waving her back here at home.

In her own good land she's been abused --
She's been burned, dishonored, denied and refused.
And the government for which she stands
Is scandalized throughout the land.

And she's getting threadbare and wearing thin,
But she's in good shape for the shape she's in.
'Cause she's been through the fire before
And I believe she can take a whole lot more.

So we raise her up every morning, Take her down every night.
We don't let her touch the ground And we fold her up right.
On second thought I DO like to brag,
'Cause I'm mighty proud of that Ragged Old Flag.

Written by Johnny Cash

[Letum]

Who's "we"?
Me for one!
Your we?
Am I we?
If we are then we're we!

[Sailor Steve]

Goo goo ga joob.

[The Avon Lady]

After all what else could you call sending your young people, strapped with explosives, to blow themselves up in a crowded Israeli market or nightclub? Murder?A response to other acts very similar and much more palestinian and lubnanin deads,
and why?
Because the PLO's and Hamas' charters call for the destruction of Israel and they have commited atrocities galore against Israel, perhaps?

Because Hizballah ("The Party of god", for those that didn't know what it meant until now) have the same public proclaim and crossed Israel's sovereign border last summer, kidnapping its soldiers and killing others in pursuit of the kidnapper's, the most elementary acts of war, perhaps?

Don't let the little things get in the way of your arguments, of course.

[Takeda Shingen]

This thread is supposed to be about flag burning. Take Israel/Palestine elsewhere.

[The Avon Lady]

This thread is supposed to be about flag burning. Take Israel/Palestine elsewhere.
If it'll make you happy, he's stated the following earlier today on another thread:
So, you are doing it on purpose? I have burned that sionist flag doing it on purpose.
The only purpose,when you burn flags
And i'm very happy of this
Now everyone can be happy. :()1:

[Takeda Shingen]

This thread is supposed to be about flag burning. Take Israel/Palestine elsewhere.
If it'll make you happy, he's stated the following earlier today on another thread:
So, you are doing it on purpose? I have burned that sionist flag doing it on purpose.
The only purpose,when you burn flags
And i'm very happy of this
Now everyone can be happy. :()1:

What would really make me happy is if the two of you would stop jumping around this board and hijacking threads in an attempt to get at each other. If the two of you are going to have a go, start your own thread, please.

For the record, I did not quote anyone in my previous request. The implication: I am talking to both of you.

[The Avon Lady]

This thread is supposed to be about flag burning. Take Israel/Palestine elsewhere.
If it'll make you happy, he's stated the following earlier today on another thread:
So, you are doing it on purpose? I have burned that sionist flag doing it on purpose.
The only purpose,when you burn flags
And i'm very happy of this
Now everyone can be happy. :()1:

What would really make me happy is if the two of you would stop jumping around this board and hijacking threads in an attempt to get at each other. If the two of you are going to have a go, start your own thread, please.

For the record, I did not quote anyone in my previous request. The implication: I am talking to both of you.
I would be very happy not to have to have posts of his that need responding to in the first place but I'll have no complaints if you delete both of our posts from threads where you feel the topic should not have popped up in the first place. However, it did pop up here and it is relevant to flag burning. (It might also be relevant to global warming threads, if you think about it. :D ). Even the Finnish flag and emotions popped up here. Or is this thread limited only to the Stars & Stripes and the Union Jack?

[Onkel Neal]

Topic closed. We are approaching Condition Orange in the GT forum. Things need to cool back down for a while, please.