should sh4 been japenese?

[codmander]

since the u boat in the atlantic was underdogged atleast in the latter years and its 1 heck of a challenge... I think being a japense sailor/cpt on a sub during ww2 would of been aweome !! first mission sneak into pearl in your miget:hmm: or try and destroy american navel ships wooow talk about big kahunas :hmm: wonder if they ((ubi)) even have thought about it?

[Tarnish_UK]

It's certainly a good idea for an expansion pack but I don't feel it would stand as a game in it's own right. Covert meetings with German U-Boats and daring attacks with plane carrying subs on the Panama Canal could be interesting I'd say.

:)

[codmander]

hmm maybe not in the usa but in japan ? I would buy it if it was like sh3 of course dont think i would set voices to japenese or text :o

It's certainly a good idea for an expansion pack but I don't feel it would stand as a game in it's own right. Covert meetings with German U-Boats and daring attacks with plane carrying subs on the Panama Canal could be interesting I'd say.

:)

[Takeda Shingen]

I think being a japense sailor/cpt on a sub during ww2 would of been aweome !! first mission sneak into pearl in your miget:hmm: or try and destroy american navel ships wooow talk about big kahunas :hmm:

And then spend the rest of the war either making donuts outside of Tokyo bay or shuttling diplomatic codes to and from Germany. No thanks.

[GreyOctober]

Oh yes..fantastic ideea. And your career would end with full honours while manning the Kaiten (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/japan/japtp-ss/kaiten.htm) :down: At least you could control the damn thing yourself :rock:

Grey

[Lost@Sea]

Why do I keep having images of the Gilligans Island episode where the Japanese minisub didn't know the war was over.

[LargeSlowTarget]

SH4 from the Japanese side could be interesting - torpedoing Saratoga (twice), finishing off Yorktown and Juneau, sinking Wasp and damaging North Carolina and O'Brien with a single spread, damaging Chester, sinking Indianapolis, transporting Midget subs and Kaitens to attack PH, Sydney, Ulithi, Diego Suarez (Madagaskar) and other places, chasing merchantmen off the US West Coast, around PH, Australia and the Indian Ocean as far as East Africa, launching air raids with sub-launched float planes against Washington (only air attack against CONUS ever was launched from a Japanese sub!), plane and periscope recon of Allied naval bases, supply runs to bypassed or beleaguered islands - those are the historic feats and missions of the IJN submarine force that spring to my mind instantly. Would make for an interesting campaign, don't you think?

[danoh]

There were actually some very interesting missions by Japanaese submarines during the war. A few to note:

1) the Pearl Harbor midget sub effort mentioned above.

2) Subs were supposed to screen the U.S. fleet before Midway, but I believe they arrived late. In any case this would make a good hypothetical scenario.

3) The shelling of the Ellwood oil field north of Santa Barbara by the I-17.

4) Several major ships were sunk by Japanese submarines, like the Wasp, the Yorktown (partially) and the final ship sunk in the war, Spruance's former flagship the cruiser Indianapolis (a tragic tale worth reading up on.)

5) The hypothetical mission to launch planes that would bomb the panama canal locks.

The main problem with making a career out of driving a Japanese submarine is they were soon taken off their combat roles and relegated to delivering supplies to isolated garrisons. I've seen lists of the most successful U-Boats and U.S. subs, but never one that showed the top-scoring Japanese submarines/captains.

Still as a hypothetical it could be a lot of fun, especially if you got to drive the one that launched planes. There was another interesting variant that carried two amphibious tractors on it's hull. The idea was to get close to some attoll, launch the tractors, which would then crawl over reefs and into the lagoon where they could launch torpedoes at anchored ships. It never was used in combat, but would be a cool mission to complete.

Any ideas about how capable the Japanese subs were? Did they dive quickly or have a decent crush depth. Certainly, you would enjoy the best torpedoes in the world playing as Japan.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Japanese subs were slow to dive, had rather shallow crush depth and were quite noisy, in general they were technically inferior compared to the subs of other major Navies but of course there were some advanced designs as well (the I-200 class for example achieved underwater speeds of 19 knots). Japanese subs divide into two main categories, the small coastal subs of the RO classes and the big fleet subs of the various I-classes, including the giant I-400 class. More here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Navy_submarines.

[nimitstexan]

Yeah, the Japanese subs accomplished some interesting feats in in the war, especially in 1941-1942, but those missions are the total conducted by the whole Japanese submarine force, an individual sub would have been involved in at most one or two of those kinds of missions. Any sort of even semi-realistic IJN sub campaign would have you spend most of the early war watching empty ocean, with a brief flurry of action hunting high speed warships in the waters of the Solomons, then spending the rest of the war on supply runs to isolated bases, in an ASW environment eventually almost as dangerous as that faced by the Germans in the North Atlantic.

Let's face it, the point of a sub sim is sinking ships, and, apart from the above mentioned engagements, the IJN subs just did not do a whole lot of that.

[Takeda Shingen]

There were actually some very interesting missions by Japanaese submarines during the war. A few to note:

1) the Pearl Harbor midget sub effort mentioned above.

2) Subs were supposed to screen the U.S. fleet before Midway, but I believe they arrived late. In any case this would make a good hypothetical scenario.

3) The shelling of the Ellwood oil field north of Santa Barbara by the I-17.

4) Several major ships were sunk by Japanese submarines, like the Wasp, the Yorktown (partially) and the final ship sunk in the war, Spruance's former flagship the cruiser Indianapolis (a tragic tale worth reading up on.)

5) The hypothetical mission to launch planes that would bomb the panama canal locks.

I'll just handle them one at a time:

1. Resulted in mission failure and sinking.

2. They arrived late. Mission failure.

3. One sub. One mission. Fifteen shells.

4. Irregular compared to the typical submarine performance.

5. Hypothetical.


It sounds like a very sparse and overly-scripted campaign to me. Free-form play is what makes for interesting submarine simulations, no?

[Cap'n Blake]

Japanese didn't launch large-scale assault on US merchant shipping and only had these supporting missions and anti-warship sorties. I think there's not enough for a new game covering these areas.

What I'd like to see is expansion or new game based on various other navies of WW2, similiar of IL2:Forgotten Battles - Let's say 'Forgotten Submarines'. There you could have mediterranean campaign as British or Italian and maybe Pacific campaign as Japanese. Hell, why not even put Soviet and Finnish submarines into the mix.

Such expansion would be good rather than just going back to the Atlantic with SH4 engine or just to create a new game totally which would be very time consuming.

[joea]

Japanese didn't launch large-scale assault on US merchant shipping and only had these supporting missions and anti-warship sorties. I think there's not enough for a new game covering these areas.

What I'd like to see is expansion or new game based on various other navies of WW2, similiar of IL2:Forgotten Battles - Let's say 'Forgotten Submarines'. There you could have mediterranean campaign as British or Italian and maybe Pacific campaign as Japanese. Hell, why not even put Soviet and Finnish submarines into the mix.

Such expansion would be good rather than just going back to the Atlantic with SH4 engine or just to create a new game totally which would be very time consuming.

Yes!!!!! :rock::rock::rock:

[codmander]

indianaopis men in the water with sharks;) whatever just a thought--- I too am a deicated u boat cpt/nazi and live in the atlantic

[Takeda Shingen]

I too am a deicated u boat cpt/nazi and live in the atlantic

And the SHIV forum.

[codmander]

I too am a deicated u boat cpt/nazi and live in the atlantic

And the SHIV forum.


HEY we are all sub simmers :arrgh!:

[codmander]

SH4 from the Japanese side could be interesting - torpedoing Saratoga (twice), finishing off Yorktown and Juneau, sinking Wasp and damaging North Carolina and O'Brien with a single spread, damaging Chester, sinking Indianapolis, transporting Midget subs and Kaitens to attack PH, Sydney, Ulithi, Diego Suarez (Madagaskar) and other places, chasing merchantmen off the US West Coast, around PH, Australia and the Indian Ocean as far as East Africa, launching air raids with sub-launched float planes against Washington (only air attack against CONUS ever was launched from a Japanese sub!), plane and periscope recon of Allied naval bases, supply runs to bypassed or beleaguered islands - those are the historic feats and missions of the IJN submarine force that spring to my mind instantly. Would make for an interesting campaign, don't you think?

yes:up:

[squigian]

I just like being on the winning team again.

[Crosseye76]

I just like being on the winning team again.



:up: Exactly !

[BH]

:damn:

This discussion again???

The Japanese submarine force was irrelevent for reasons listed.(even they admited this point)

If you want true underdogs

Try the Italians or Soviet Submarine force.

[sea enemy]

One nice possibility that opens up with a Japanese 'expansion' to SH4 would be Submarine vs. I-boat adversarial multiplayer...And hopefully some in-career action.
Such actions did occur in the Pacific war-U.S. subs were often vectored to destroy I-boats caught by RDF.

[joea]

:damn:

This discussion again???

The Japanese submarine force was irrelevent for reasons listed.(even they admited this point)

If you want true underdogs

Try the Italians or Soviet Submarine force.

I'd pay good money for that. :know:

[Sailor Steve]

I'd say being in a British sub off Norway would fit that bill.