SH4: Huge Dissappointment

[Spearfish]

Hello,

This is my first post and I'm sorry in advance if it's not in the correct place, or has already been covered. But I just had to air my frustration with SH4.

I, like many of you have been waiting with baited breath for the better part of a year to get SH4. Based on the screenshots seen, it looked as if SH4 would truly surpass even the amazing SH3.

So, I paid my £25 and eagerly awaited SH4's arrival through my letterbox. Once it had arrived I wasted no time in installing it onto my PC.

Well, hmmm... first impressions were not good, not good at all. I had read about audio glitches in a recent review, but thought that they would be very minor and would not affect game play. After playing - or trying to for a short time the problems were just too distracting. So, I trawled around the Net for a patch and sure enough I found the 1.1 patch and thought "Great! everything will now be sorted." ... wrong! After downloading and installing the 200mb patch in some ways things were worse!

Audio glitches were still present, with audio sometimes even cutting out altogether. There's a ridiculous sounding voice that sounds a little like a young girl with a twang of New Jersey in his accent. They've now apparently corrected the depth readings which were in meters in the original release (although how this managed to get through in the first place amazes me). However, confirmations of commands are often repeated twice, Setting the rudder to the amidships position now results in the confirmation "Rudder." - And that's it! Rudder what?

Then I tried leveling off after my first dive by hitting the "A" key. Well, this just completely crashed the game!

I could go on and on, but I will spare all of you. Suffice to say that I simply cannot believe that something - even a patched something! - could be released into the commercial market with the kind of fundamental flaws that SH4 has! Any complex piece of software will have bugs, I know, I am a developer myself and have been for the past 20 years. I know that if I released something with such basic and obvious bugs as SH4 I would be fired!

No one can say that this was tested properly. I mean, pressing the "A" key causing the whole thing to go belly up is not something difficult or abstract to find in testing.

Oh, I almost forgot. It seems that after the patching process my engine commands have been screwed up. Pressing 1 now yields "Ahead one-third" and going up a level by pressing 2 now gives "Ahead slow". Just another example of sloppy and unprofessional approach.

At this moment in time it's going to take a significant patch - or rewrite to resolve these issues properly and until such time SH4 will be firmly "left on the shelf" by me. I dread to think that I also may have spent over £150 to upgrade my RAM and graphics card for this title.

This game has massive potential and it's a shame that it was released like this. I am looking forward to be able to play this game in the future, but for now, I will be quite content playing Sh3.

Thanks for reading.

[Drebbel]

Please change the color of the white text. For many people using the Lazyblue theme (which has a light back ground) this text color is not visible. Thanks !

Drebbel (with my moderator hat on)

[ReallyDedPoet]

Give it some time:yep: Alot of people are frustrated, but it is still to early.

[gonzlor]

I felt the same way with Silent Hunter III, I half expected SH4 to be in the same state on release, I actually think SH4 is worse, But I'm willing to give it a few months to patch up the holes in this sinking ship.

Help is on the way friend, hang in there.

[Penelope_Grey]

I posted these on the SH3 board too. So I will post them here as well so people can see I am not some loon looking to whinge for the sake of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/Penny/problem.jpg

First image, damage control going and manned, no visible sign of flooding in the Sub.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/Penny/Problem2.jpg

Second image showing only damage to guns, yet sub sinks like a brick with no Electric motors on diving. Sinking stern first. I am very confused as to why. There doesn't seem to be any visible sign of flooding or of damage to the engines.

[gonzlor]

Hey! I just had a patrol about 30 minutes ago where I'd sunk without any visable damage to the sub outside or in the damage control screen.

What may have happened though is it had been damaged previously and was repaired, I'd taken some hull damage and stopped a minor flooding rather quickly, The game clearly cleans it up in the damage control screen but obviously you are left with some problems that are not seen, As soon as I wen't to periscope depth (made the mistake of doing this at 64x time acceleration) I'd sunk with major flodding.:damn:

[tommyk]

Hi and welcome Spearfish! I can understand how you feel about it. As I read you know the business very well and you can pretty well imagine how the devs may feel to have the product taken from their hands in such state...

I hope we see you around when the new patch is handed over to us all for shakedown.

[Godalmighty83]

i too sink like a rock if i come to a stop while submerged.

i agree the game is very dissapointing, features that worked perfectly in sh3 have just been cut and raft of dodgy decisions have come in.

[Seminole]

We know there are flaws...just not sure why we need to be perpetually reminded of them. The same or at least similar things were said about SHIII. Go back and read the early remarks written just after release.

Now you know the rest of the story.

Sorry, Mr Harvey...:oops: ...just had to say that.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I posted these on the SH3 board too. So I will post them here as well so people can see I am not some loon looking to whinge for the sake of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/Penny/problem.jpg

First image, damage control going and manned, no visible sign of flooding in the Sub.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/Penny/Problem2.jpg

Second image showing only damage to guns, yet sub sinks like a brick with no Electric motors on diving. Sinking stern first. I am very confused as to why. There doesn't seem to be any visible sign of flooding or of damage to the engines.

Wait for future patches:yep: SH3 was patched 4 times afterall.

[AVGWarhawk]

Fear not Spear, patches are in the works and modders have created some fine changes that help make the game some what playable. Since we have a week or two ahead of you in this game, go to the sticky thread on bugs on this forum. "a" key is known CTD. You will find some others but not much that will keep you from playing the game. I have had my first successful patrol and I'm enjoying the heck out of this game. I have the utmost confidence the developers will clean up the glitches and we move on to wonder mods, etc.:yep:

Don't throw in the towel man because it is a very nice game. Read some posts on the forums because when you're in the "know" the game can be awesome!! BTW welcome aboard!

[U-Bones]

This bug, sinking with no apparent damage, and damage control in general, are my biggest concerns with the game.

I will be playing around a bit, seeing if I can figure out how things work, but I really am expecting this to be adressed in a patch relatively soon. It really is not ready for a serious career, I have yet to get to Patrol 5 without reverting to saves because of career ending bugs.

Speaking of career ending bugs - the demotion to desk duty after going down with your sub is a classic. There really is a hell !

[codmander]

Awesome game!!!! --------------:down: SH4 will need a patch? more like one of grandmas quilts patches galore :nope:

[Snakeeyes]

Good first post mate! Welcome aboard formally!
I wish it was on a brighter note but I completely understand the need to express your disappointment. Don't chuck it away just yet. The sim community has had to take what we can get these last 8 years and mod it to our standards. I realize, a game with a patch right out of the box is rediculous but try to look at the bright side that they made the patch so fast.

I know.... glass half empty - glass half full.

I've uinstalled it and have it as a dust-gatherer until they fix 60% of things, THEN I'll allow it's electrons to grace the circuits of my "cyber hog."

[Penelope_Grey]

It is kinda depressing the whole Silent hunter 4 situation but at least most of us have SH3 to tide us over.

There are a lot of bugs and as such does not make it worth carrying out a serious career.

[fredbass]

Well at least the devs have acknowledged some of the problems that will be fixed. So at this point, if you really don't think you can enjoy the game how it is, then play something else until it's patched better, which is what I'm doing.

Hopefully it won't be too long because I'm looking forward to playing it when I'm ready.

[Spearfish]

Good first post mate! Welcome aboard formally!
I wish it was on a brighter note but I completely understand the need to express your disappointment. Don't chuck it away just yet. The sim community has had to take what we can get these last 8 years and mod it to our standards. I realize, a game with a patch right out of the box is rediculous but try to look at the bright side that they made the patch so fast.

I know.... glass half empty - glass half full.

I've uinstalled it and have it as a dust-gatherer until they fix 60% of things, THEN I'll a;;;llow it's electrons to grace the circuits of my "cyber hog."

Thanks for the welcome (Is this text the right colour? Drebel pointed out that the text I used in my first post was hard to read - still finding my feet, so apologies if this is still wrong).
--------------
I'm pleased to hear that other people feel the same way as me. There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”

I appreciate that the developers will be going through a hard time, but unless there are political reasons why this game was released in this state which were outside the control of the developers then I see no reason why they should not shoulder the blame as well as the accolades that come with a properly tested game.

I find it unbelievable that SH4 could be released in such a condition. We’re not talking about some amateur freebie downloaded from the Internet here; we’re talking about a professionally written and developed piece of software. It’s like buying a new car that cuts out every 100 yards and people just saying “Oh well, it’ll be fixed sometime soon – stop moaning!”

How bugs of the nature described could even pass Alpha testing amazes me. Was there even Beta testing done? It appears that we – all of us – are the Beta testers here. It strikes me that Ubisoft have missed a trick here with the SubSim community. They would’ve had a large group of beta testers here that could’ve really provided some proper testing prior to a commercial release. Such a rushed release has in my opinion damaged the credibility of Ubisoft. Don’t get me wrong, I will be the first to cheer and applaud when things are sorted out, but for the moment I remain flabbergasted at the current situation.

Great tagline BTW.

[Gizzmoe]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”
Yep, because we heard the same complaints about SH4 a thousand times before. Or did you really think, when you started this thread, that you´d tell us something we didn´t know already?

[ReallyDedPoet]

It is kinda depressing the whole Silent hunter 4 situation but at least most of us have SH3 to tide us over.

There are a lot of bugs and as such does not make it worth carrying out a serious career.

The game has potential, I have just installed, played a few different modes, I am going to be positive about this one:yep:

[AirborneTD]

"SH4 a huge dissappointment"??? I dunno. I guess I would agree except that I've been having too much of a blast playing it this last week or so.

[AVGWarhawk]

"SH4 a huge dissappointment"??? I dunno. I guess I would agree except that I've been having too much of a blast playing it this last week or so.

Yeah, me too:yep:

[Spearfish]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”
Yep, because we heard the same complaints about SH4 a thousand times before. Or did you really think, when you started this thread, that you´d tell us something we didn´t know already?
Well, I apologise for doing something as terrible and intolerable as simply airing my views within a public forum. Yes, these issues may have been discussed a thousand times before and no, I didn't really think I was telling you all something you didn't already know.

I merely wanted to gauge the mood of others here - which after all is what forums are quite useful for. However, as a moderator yourself I am somewhat shocked by your impatient and somewhat aggressive response. I had perhaps expected a more "moderated" response - something more constructive.

Well, perhaps you've succeeded in your ultimate aim; that is, I will not be posting anymore as this sort of attitude is one of the reasons I shy away from forums in general. I'm sorry it worked out this way.

So long...

[Gizzmoe]

I merely wanted to gauge the mood of others here - which after all is what forums are quite useful for.
You could´ve used the forum search (like search for "Disappointment", 34 hits), or read the "Things you like or don't like about SH4" or the Bugs thread.

[mookiemookie]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”

How dare we have a positive attitude and support the ONLY developers of submarine simulation games at the moment! Man, I can't believe we're not all huffy and full of righteous indignation at the unheard of situation of game developers being put on an impossible timeline by a publisher.

I suppose we'll have to work on that. :roll:

[John Channing]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”
Yep, because we heard the same complaints about SH4 a thousand times before. Or did you really think, when you started this thread, that you´d tell us something we didn´t know already?
Well, I apologise for doing something as terrible and intolerable as simply airing my views within a public forum. Yes, these issues may have been discussed a thousand times before and no, I didn't really think I was telling you all something you didn't already know.

I merely wanted to gauge the mood of others here - which after all is what forums are quite useful for. However, as a moderator yourself I am somewhat shocked by your impatient and somewhat aggressive response. I had perhaps expected a more "moderated" response - something more constructive.

Well, perhaps you've succeeded in your ultimate aim; that is, I will not be posting anymore as this sort of attitude is one of the reasons I shy away from forums in general. I'm sorry it worked out this way.

So long...

Well, if you're that sensitive you wouldn't have lasted long, anyway. We need MEN damnit... TOUGH MEN (and TOUGH WOMEN, Penelope) in the Silent Service.


Hey... "Silent Service".

They way things have been lately we may have to re-name it the Not-So Silent Service!

JCC

I crack myself up sometimes!

[TDK1044]

The Devs were given 14 months to build this game using a flawed game engine from SH3 as a foundation. 'Huge Disappointment'....No. Work in progress would be a more accurate description. It's not possible to produce the game this Forum wanted in the time frame given, and also satisfy all the demands put on them by Ubisoft in order to attract the 'casual gamer' in large numbers.

A casual gamer playing Silent Hunter 4 at a realism setting somewhere between 0 and 30 is never going to notice most of the bugs. A few bugs like the clipboard freezing issue, sure.

I just hope the Devs are allowed to keep patching, so that they can make the game what they always intended it to be had they have been given a realistic production schedule.

[tommyk]

Hahaha, what is this? Mods going beserk? cool down! Be men :) SCNR :)

[macky]

A casual gamer playing Silent Hunter 4 at a realism setting somewhere between 0 and 30 is never going to notice most of the bugs. A few bugs like the clipboard freezing issue, sure.



Quite correct. I am that person :D

I play on 0-30, mainly while I get used to things. I'll stay that way too until the things are fixed that would allow higher realism, and hopefully by then I'll be better at the helm:roll:

Tho I still agree with the op, they shouldnt have let it out yet, and I too believe the devs have to shoulder some of the blame too.

But thats an old hat convo, moving onwards and upwards, lets just pressure em to get a patch or 3 out so we can really start to marbvel at this sim;)

[Iron Budokan]

It appears that we – all of us – are the Beta testers here.

Bingo! :up:

[Wave Skipper]

Look at the excuse makers - if they are not Ubi-agents - they are part of the trouble anyway. All of us are. When SH3 was never truly fixed - when the Devs abandoned SH3 with the fix job half done and we sucked that down so they could go build their vaunted SH4, that was when we should have raised a storm. Right now in my town at both Wal-Marts SH4 is just collecting dust on the shelves. After all Sh4 really had nothing over SH3 except a sub with scopes and radio in the way of a full 360 degree view of the sky (The Germans were at least bright enough to maintain this open configuration even on their Type XXI).

I have been waiting to see what Ubi would do this time around. Sure enough it sounds like because we allowed it to get away the first time, now like a bad dog it is just getting worse the more you pamper it.

Look Ubi - the public at large doesn't care about buying another SH3 with new subs. Its whacko-sub lovers like us that would give your game any traction at all. And yet you are shoving crap into our faces again - only more this time around.

Ubi fills the market for this sort of thing. If another better group of guys wanted to break into this market they have to go against the SH-series. But if Ubi could be forced out or put out of business, that would open the market for other companies - who might just do a better job. Take your games back to the stores - and even if they will not take them back (though in America some will) then at least complain to the store that the game is a wreck. That you are very unhappy.

I was about to make an SH3 mod to simulate the SH4. After all the German subs aren't all that different and SH3 has a fairly good map. But I gave it up. I am tired of all this SH-mess. I will bet you part of the reason SH4 is having all its troubles is because it is trying to work with Vista. They should have left it designed for Win2000 and XP. Why does every company keep trying to suck up to Gates?

Oh, and your wet dreams for more patches? Ha. This title will make less money than SH3 did - so your patches will end long before they did with SH3. The Devs will be put on to another game very soon - especially as the SH4 games grow dust at the stores.

[Gizzmoe]

And yet another wild rant. Thanks, Wave Skipper... :dead:

[John Channing]

OK... Let me see if I have this correct.

You say that if we drive the only company that has even attempted a WWII Subsim in... what... 10-15 years, out of the market then some other company will rush in and start making them?






I think my head just exploded.

JCC

[mookiemookie]

Look at the excuse makers - if they are not Ubi-agents - they are part of the trouble anyway.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[TDK1044]

Ubi fills the market for this sort of thing. If another better group of guys wanted to break into this market they have to go against the SH-series. But if Ubi could be forced out or put out of business, that would open the market for other companies - who might just do a better job. Take your games back to the stores - and even if they will not take them back (though in America some will) then at least complain to the store that the game is a wreck. That you are very unhappy.




Silent Hunter 3 made enough money to justify Silent Hunter 4.....just! If Silent Hunter 4 fails to meet its sales target, then you can forget Ubisoft producing another sub sim any time soon.

As for your notion that there are companies just waiting in the wings to produce sub sims as soon as Ubisoft are out of the picture, you obviously have little or no knowledge of how the video game industry works.

The profit ratio on this type of game is pretty small. Some folks need to wake up and smell the coffee.

[walsh2509]

OK... Let me see if I have this correct.

You say that if we drive the only company that has even attempted a WWII Subsim in... what... 10-15 years, out of the market then some other company will rush in and start making them?






I think my head just exploded.

JCC

I see your point, but the fear of losing the only people that make a SH, should not allow the company to get away with sloppy work.

Yes as said a million times before, all game have bugs on release. But what are the QC at either the game house or UBI doing? In patch 1.1 press A to level the sub and it crashes the game. How could anyone miss that, either QC never told , no I'll stop myself there. There is no way on this earth that the devs didn't know that 1.1 had this major new bug, that is not only sloppy its totally unprofessional work.

As that old saying goes ! At the end of the day, its OUR fault, the game buying public. Game houses and there publishers know that gamers will jump at the chance to play the "next/next-gen/ground breaking" games, and that is why they can get away with at best sloppy work. They have testers QC, they know when they release these game that the games don't just have mirror quick fix flaws or bugs, they know there are major programming problems and even when like patch 1.1 in fixing some, they have create some even worse. They know this even before they release there patches.


As for if we complain to loudly they will "take home ther ball" and we'll not get to play anymore. Bottom line , game houses and publishers don't make games just out of pure love of , in this case WWII uboats and subs, yes the dev's may have a passion a love of WWII uboats and subst they produce, but bottom line if there was no money to be made these games would not see light of day. Publishers would not touch them, SH will continue for a while yet, because there is money to be made.

[Charlie901]

HENCE the question remains:

[John Channing]

HENCE the question remains:

And the answer is...


"Because the Leopards already took the spots"

or

"A Nun Reading a Newspaper"

or

"I don't know about that, but this one's eating my popcorn"



Feel free to join in everyone.

JCC

[mookiemookie]

"Because that's the way the Romans did it."

"Because the ghost of Gunther Prien compels me."

"One hundred and seventy three schoolkids with ADD, sharpened sticks and a severe dislike for that shirt you're wearing."

and my personal favorite...

"Purple monkey dishwasher."

[seawolf34]

Because of the problems with the game at the present time I just stick to playing the single missions or online play, I'll start a campaign once some of the bugs are fixed. I certainly wouldn't class sh4 as a disappointment though, multiplayer is fun :)

[Harmor]

Well, I have put the game aside for the time being, because I can't be bothered to keep starting a new career just because the game won't let me reload career savegames due to whatever flaw there is in the game. Since I am not interested in the MP and do not care for the single missions that much either, this absolutely horrendous savegame issue is indeed gamebreaking for me. So up until they fix it, yeah, it is a disappointment for sure since it is more or less unplayable.

[ReM]

Time heals all wounds....

Lighten up peeps!

In a couple of weeks this game is gonna be patched and modded and will resemble the game it was supposed to be....

[Front Runner]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”
Yep, because we heard the same complaints about SH4 a thousand times before. Or did you really think, when you started this thread, that you´d tell us something we didn´t know already?

And we will probably hear the same complaints several more thousand times.

Everyone, no matter how new or ancient to the Radio Room should feel free to express their opinion as often and as eloquently as they may.

Just because "Dissapointment" has been posted numerous times doesn't invalidate another's opine.

I have uninstalled SH4 and am currently having a blast with Dangerous Waters and SH3 GWX so I can happily wait for the Dev team to give us a REFIT and I can sail the waters of the South Pacific looking for ships bearing the Rising Sun in my crosshairs again some day, hopefully sooner rather than later.

SH4 is playable in it's present state, but one has to have a great deal of patience and save the game frequently.

The Mods help, but don't fix what is fundamentally flawed. So, I remain disappointed in the SH4 state of affairs.

[Shipwreck]

:rock: Keep your chins up Brothers and Sisters, good times are comin :up:

SW

[mookiemookie]

And we will probably hear the same complaints several more thousand times.

Everyone, no matter how new or ancient to the Radio Room should feel free to express their opinion as often and as eloquently as they may.

Just because "Dissapointment" has been posted numerous times doesn't invalidate another's opine.

I don't want to see 1,000 separate threads on "dissapointment" anymore than I want to see 1,000 separate threads on any other single topic. No one is discounting anyone's opinion as they can express their opinion as often and eloquently as they want within a thread started for that reason. Just because you think it's profound and unique that you're feeling let down by the game, doesn't mean that it's so profound and unique that it needs yet ANOTHER new thread devoted to it. Post it in "likes and dislikes" or one of the other existing rant threads instead of spamming up the forum with yet another rant on how mad you are.

[darksythe]

And we will probably hear the same complaints several more thousand times.

Everyone, no matter how new or ancient to the Radio Room should feel free to express their opinion as often and as eloquently as they may.

Just because "Dissapointment" has been posted numerous times doesn't invalidate another's opine.

I don't want to see 1,000 separate threads on "dissapointment" anymore than I want to see 1,000 separate threads on any other single topic. No one is discounting anyone's opinion as they can express their opinion as often and eloquently as they want within a thread started for that reason. Just because you think it's profound and unique that you're feeling let down by the game, doesn't mean that it's so profound and unique that it needs yet ANOTHER new thread devoted to it. Post it in "likes and dislikes" or one of the other existing rant threads instead of spamming up the forum with yet another rant on how mad you are.

Bravo! at last ladies and gentlemen i think that someone has made the point that the rest of us have been trying to make. Lets see how it works out now.

[Reece]

I refuse to comment on the grounds that Gizzmoe might boot me in the bum!:lol:

[ReallyDedPoet]

There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”
Yep, because we heard the same complaints about SH4 a thousand times before. Or did you really think, when you started this thread, that you´d tell us something we didn´t know already?
And we will probably hear the same complaints several more thousand times.

Everyone, no matter how new or ancient to the Radio Room should feel free to express their opinion as often and as eloquently as they may.

Just because "Dissapointment" has been posted numerous times doesn't invalidate another's opine.

I have uninstalled SH4 and am currently having a blast with Dangerous Waters and SH3 GWX so I can happily wait for the Dev team to give us a REFIT and I can sail the waters of the South Pacific looking for ships bearing the Rising Sun in my crosshairs again some day, hopefully sooner rather than later.

SH4 is playable in it's present state, but one has to have a great deal of patience and save the game frequently.

The Mods help, but don't fix what is fundamentally flawed. So, I remain disappointed in the SH4 state of affairs.
This says it all for me, this guy speaks his mind, to the point, if he is playing the game, something must be working right:yep:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=476626&postcount=7

Edit: This link :roll: should be on the subsim home-page. The thread, trash it soon:yep:

[SteamWake]

I just had to pop in here and say that the tone and tennor of this thread shocks me.

Carry on

[jasonb885]

Indeed, I feel the same way as the OP.

I too am disappointed (http://edseek.com/archives/2007/04/01/silent-hunter-4-a-failure-colossal-disappointment/).

:down:

[Front Runner]

And we will probably hear the same complaints several more thousand times.

Everyone, no matter how new or ancient to the Radio Room should feel free to express their opinion as often and as eloquently as they may.

Just because "Dissapointment" has been posted numerous times doesn't invalidate another's opine.

I don't want to see 1,000 separate threads on "dissapointment" anymore than I want to see 1,000 separate threads on any other single topic. No one is discounting anyone's opinion as they can express their opinion as often and eloquently as they want within a thread started for that reason. Just because you think it's profound and unique that you're feeling let down by the game, doesn't mean that it's so profound and unique that it needs yet ANOTHER new thread devoted to it. Post it in "likes and dislikes" or one of the other existing rant threads instead of spamming up the forum with yet another rant on how mad you are.

Perhaps we should "STICKIE" it then so it would be prominent on the front page without a search. Just a suggestion.

Cheers, no offense intended, I agree with your point about not wanting to see 1,001 separate threads on "dissapointment", however I don't think there are any specific forum rules about the number of threads that can be started on any particular subject, please correct me if I am wrong as I am a relative newcomer as well.
I know that we should all be considerate and check to see if a particular subject is already threaded but with the recent high message traffic, subjects can move off of the front page quickly and newcomers may not yet know the "house rules."
Let's at least try to make everyone feel welcome even if they start yet another dissapointment thread. The level of frustration that new SH4 users may feel about purchasing a product that is less than finished may also cause them to jump in and start threads without a search in hope that there are others they can share their feelings with.

Submarines are small so we all have to learn to get along with each other and work as a team.

I apologize if I am sounding preachy.

[Onkel Neal]

We have a topics for SH4 Likes/Dislikes stickied.

The main thing that concerns me with these "Huge Disappointment" threads, people tend to express the negative more than the positive.

The guy who is hugely disappointed with SH4 today, is very likely to grow to like it, especially after the next patch ;) and get back into it three weeks from now, and play it religously for the next 4 years.

But, to the casual observer, this negative tone may suggest SH4 is not salvageable, has no play value, and scare him off. Just as was the case with SH2, and SH3, sales will dictate if there will be an SH5. No sales = no more Silent Hunters. And there are no other game companies considering making a A title submarine simulation.

I've been playing SH4 for a little over 3 weeks... it was rushed, it has bugs, but it's not hard to love it. :ping: I've heard from other journalists the same thing; SH4 fell far short of perfect, but it certainly is a good sim.

Neal

[Grothesj2]

Funny, now that my computer is upgraded I can actually play SHIV. The same could not be said about SHIII when it came out. UZO spray bug, constant crashes just while cruising, and a host of other issues. And yet, SHIII became one of my most favorite games. Funny that huh?

[cowboys98]

yeah,they deliver a patch ,becouse they knew that the game was screw up,and know they want the modders and and the guys that made gwx to fix it.they sure did not check the patch to see if it would work,becouse if they would have check the patch,then you wouldnt have the a button crash,they new about it and they kept it hush hush,they sold us a game that was made halfway,and the only way to fix it,was by giving us the game and we all would start playing,and having problem,then they knew that we would complain in the forums and in the forums at subsim.com,they figure they would get all the errors there,so that they could fix the game.how bout if we send a letter to your senator in your home state,and see if they could do something about it,maybe they could write a law or do some kind of investigation,or how bout if we send letters to the show"60 minutes"i bet they could do something about it,we need to let ubisoft know
that people are fed up with their s--t and that we are not giney pigs,we are hard core players and when we buy a game,we want to install it and start playing without any problems,this is happening too frequently in all the pc gaming software makers,they make a game and release it halfway,that is not right,we pay money for this games and we cant even play them.if anybody has any more ideas well lets post it.

[Sea Demon]

I can't believe anyone could be disappointed with SH4. It is by far one of the most amazing submarine simulations I've ever seen. IMO it beats out SH3 hands down. Now I understand there are features we would like to see, and wish that some things from SH3 were included with this sim. But the sim is functional. And it's fun. There's more in SH4 that beats out SH3.

What ever happened to playing games for the "fun" of it. I swear, you guys would enjoy yourselves more in SH4 if you weren't looking for reasons to hate it. SH4 is fun if you actually try to have fun with it. Trust me. :up:

Some of you people are too much of this :cry:

And not enough of this :D

And there's no reason for it. SH4 is great.

[Hylander_1314]

Heah Neal,

I've had the game for two weeks now, and other than learning the different commands that SH4 has, I've been enjoying the game. My first career ended on a photo recon mission to Hiroshima Harbor. My second one so far has been fine. I was offerred a new Gato boat by the end of August '42, so I upgraded from a Gar boat.

There are a few things that are a little goofy. But I can wait for them to be corrected. I even flamed a G4M Betty with the twin 20mm guns, and the flame licked back like the old combat guncamera footage, and the plane dropped like a rock out of the sky.

I've had no CTDs, or lockups in two weeks of gameplay. The game loaded up on the hard drive, and it's been fine ever since. Patch 1 has caused no issues, and it has fixed the things that it said it would.

[darksythe]

yeah,they deliver a patch ,becouse they knew that the game was screw up,and know they want the modders and and the guys that made gwx to fix it.they sure did not check the patch to see if it would work,becouse if they would have check the patch,then you wouldnt have the a button crash,they new about it and they kept it hush hush,they sold us a game that was made halfway,and the only way to fix it,was by giving us the game and we all would start playing,and having problem,then they knew that we would complain in the forums and in the forums at subsim.com,they figure they would get all the errors there,so that they could fix the game.how bout if we send a letter to your senator in your home state,and see if they could do something about it,maybe they could write a law or do some kind of investigation,or how bout if we send letters to the show"60 minutes"i bet they could do something about it,we need to let ubisoft know
that people are fed up with their s--t and that we are not giney pigs,we are hard core players and when we buy a game,we want to install it and start playing without any problems,this is happening too frequently in all the pc gaming software makers,they make a game and release it halfway,that is not right,we pay money for this games and we cant even play them.if anybody has any more ideas well lets post it.
Well very well worded:down: post yah got there. Welcome to the subsim community by the way.:up: I think that vast majority of the people who have been here for the other sims may disagree with you when it comes to the level of patience regarding our "sims". the need for patience is necessary in every aspect of hardcore simming. I mean the very title we are talking about here and now requires very long multi day journeys just to get to the Aop. Granted you can time accel as most people do, myself included.

On the other end there are players who will make it a point to make every journey in real time, granted there arent many but if you read back in the SHIII forums you will see evidence of such. You can imagine the level of patience required for that.

Alas i digress(*sp) with the above being pointed out id like you all to stop and think about the level of development required to make a sim so open ended that you can interact with it for that amount of time inteligently. People complain about the things that it is lacking but i must ask you this. How much can you seriously expect? Yes we all want the things we spend our money on to be perfect out of the gate. So few things rarely are.

But seriously.


how bout if we send a letter to your senator in your home state,and see if they could do something about it,maybe they could write a law or do some kind of investigation,or how bout if we send letters to the show"60 minutes"i bet they could do something about it,we need to let ubisoft know
that people are fed up with their s--t

What are you thinking exactly? The people who developed this game are working on fixing the problems we are telling them about. by saying "We hate what you have done" how is that going to help get the sim fixed, what kind of appreciation for the fact that they are fixing it does that present?

None. Have some patience.

[McBeck]

This game certanly has potential and its certanly got bugs.

However....when you express your feelings about the bugs, please DO NOT blame the devs!!
They have worked under a hard deadline they have been struggeling to meet.
The deadline was set by Corporate Ubi, but NOT the development team.
Why did they then agree to this deadline?!?...well I guess because if they didnt, they game would not have been realized!

So dont go bashing they very people who are working so hard and dedicated for you!

These days I really feel sorry for the devs, with the unappriciation they are getting from a number of people....not a very motivating factor!!:nope:

I would not blame them if they didnt care to make another sim after this, if they had to face another hard deadline for a Silent Hunter V.

Iv seen a great number of errors in this game, there are tons of bugs that needs to be fixed, but I have faith, because the devs have faith!:cool:

[d@rk51d3]

Probably pays to keep in mind that theyre still patching Windows, and not too many complaints are heard about this. Personally I'm thankful for patches and updates. Kinda keeps things exciting....then again maybe I need to get out more:88)

I'm sure we can all just relax a bit and give these guys a few weeks, surely?

[Sea Demon]

These days I really feel sorry for the devs, with the unappriciation they are getting from a number of people....not a very motivating factor!!:nope:


I agree. It would suck to dedicate your efforts to releasing a software title with a short timeline given by your publisher, and huge expectations given by your customers that never seem satisfied and live for complaining. Why can't people see the positive things that are in the game?? I've been playing it for a week now, and it functions beautifully. I'm playing a campaign and have been sinking many ships. I'm enjoying the scenery and new theatre. Enjoying the new POV's and new submarines. Anything else added to it will just be icing on the cake. Flame me if you want, but I love SH4.

[1mPHUNit0]

I've been playing it for a week now, and it functions beautifully. Whatis this?
Yes it's no rant but....
how many times peoples say that
and it's not correct at all indeed.
This it's always ok?
I don't think so.
And yet another wild rant. Thanks,

[Sea Demon]

Whatis this?
Yes it's no rant but....
how many times peoples say that
and it's not correct at all indeed.
This it's always ok?
I don't think so.


It's rather presumptious of you to tell me what experience I'm having with my software on my computer. :shifty:

[horrgakx]

I've actually stopped playing it (v1.1) and will wait for another patch.
Its just too problematic for smooth gameplay.

[OakGroove]

This horse has been beaten ad nauseum, and it's not getting us anywhere.

[corvette k225]

You better watch out what you say, or your post could be shut off, There is no free speach on this website. Someone from the other side of the Atlantic!! will shut you down.:D :D

[tonyeh]

The main problem is, is that I'm afraid SHIV will be abandoned before all of the endemic bugs are knocked out. The dev team (who we shouldn't really blame for this mess) will be moved on to something else (a la SHIII) and SHIV will just die quietly as one of the "near misses". People will mod the crap out of it, but it will probably ever meet the standard that some of the optimistic people out there believe, because some of the functionality problems are absolutely chronic.

I personally think the source code should be handed over to somebody else, if the team is moved away, there are probably enough people on this very forum that could finish the job properly, as they won't be under the pressure that UBI has obviously placed the dev team under.


Tony

[Boris]

Arnie says it best...

http://www.psistar.co.uk/images/stopwhining.jpg

[johnnydrake]

SH4 has afew problems yet so did SH3. I still think SH4 is excellent. The graphics are great and Im sure that subsequent patches will alleviate some of the minor problems. Note to complainers.....insteads of complaining about the "A" key or pressing 1 for slow ahead....try using the mouse interface on the depth and speed dials....its no big deal....really:-?

[tonyeh]

Arnie says it best...

http://www.psistar.co.uk/images/stopwhining.jpg

Get back in the galley you!:D

[davejb]

It's not out of line for people who are experiencing multiple game breaking bugs to complain - some people get the bugs some don't, for those unable to load a career save without a crash to desktop this game isn't largely okay.

If the complaints are a genuine problem then perhaps some 'transfer to the bitching thread' option could be employed? The people posting, both for and against, are keen sub simmers... or perhaps those not experiencing problems might avoid opening threads titled 'SH4: Huge disappointment' purely because they feel like arguing? (I'm amazed to find a moderator doing this, if you find threads with titles you don't like DO NOT OPEN THEM).

[mookiemookie]

The people posting, both for and against, are keen sub simmers... or perhaps those not experiencing problems might avoid opening threads titled 'SH4: Huge disappointment' purely because they feel like arguing? (I'm amazed to find a moderator doing this, if you find threads with titles you don't like DO NOT OPEN THEM).

Then all that's left for me to open is about 3 threads.

See my point? How would you like it if the entire first page was filled with 25 different threads about plotting an intercept course? You might think "alright enough with the intercept course topics already! Doesn't anyone have anything else to talk about?!"

No one is denying newbies or anyone else for that matter the opportunity to voice an opinion. But keep it to threads established for that purpose. Multiple threads on the same topic are against the rules of most every forum out there. That's just the basics of keeping a forum tidy and readable.

[jasonb885]

These days I really feel sorry for the devs, with the unappriciation they are getting from a number of people....not a very motivating factor!!:nope:


The number of nonsensical arguments in this thread is disturbing, but this one has always been one of my favorites.

Dude, _they_ _got_ _paid_. End of story. Next rant?

[jasonb885]

What are you thinking exactly? The people who developed this game are working on fixing the problems we are telling them about. by saying "We hate what you have done" how is that going to help get the sim fixed, what kind of appreciation for the fact that they are fixing it does that present?

None. Have some patience.

You don't work in software development, do you?

The game has shipped. UBI's interest in this has been concluded.

I can guarantee you there will be few upcoming fixes of any magnitude, especially if it's anything like the SH3 1.4b patch beta testing I participated in before it's release.

As to logical fallacies, no one can say with any certaintly that no other game developer will bankroll a subsim in the future merely because UBI decides to stop producing Subsim due to poor sales. In fact, I'd suggest a competitor may be more likely to enter the market should the only competitor disappear.

The UBISoft apologism surrounding SH4 is quite disturbing.

[Front Runner]

I personally think the source code should be handed over to somebody else, if the team is moved away, there are probably enough people on this very forum that could finish the job properly, as they won't be under the pressure that UBI has obviously placed the dev team under.


Tony

Yes! Falcon 4 continues to develop through it's fan base long after it was abandoned. It is too early to know but if UBI releases the source code to the fan base, we could go far....very far...

[John Channing]

Just for the record the Falcon 4.0 source code was never officially released... it was stolen and released.

JCC

[Immacolata]

It's not out of line for people who are experiencing multiple game breaking bugs to complain - some people get the bugs some don't, for those unable to load a career save without a crash to desktop this game isn't largely okay.

Why don't they go and whine at ubi soft's forum then? This isn't ubi soft. The operator of the site is not responsible for the games failures. The people who frequent these boards know all this by now. If you ask for help, sure. For some reason they believe that other people want to listen to their rants. But its happening every day, another whine thread by a bilge rat, geez. All it does is to pester the atmosphere so you can serve your own selfish goals of relief for your frustration. There is a sticky for likes and dislikes, people should use that and let the rest of the forum be used for discussing the game in general - THAT WE ALL KNOW IS BUGGY IN MANY WAYS. No need to rub our noses in it time after time as if we are naughty puppies.

[JSLTIGER]

Well, I suppose my only complaint is that SH4 is the first game to have finally been rendered unplayable on my 9700Pro. I've turned off pretty much everything, and still can't get a decent framerate. Time to upgrade yet again. Now for the debate: buy an AGP X1950 Pro, or say screw it, and upgrade the whole system to C2D and PCIe...

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, I suppose my only complaint is that SH4 is the first game to have finally been rendered unplayable on my 9700Pro. I've turned off pretty much everything, and still can't get a decent framerate. Time to upgrade yet again. Now for the debate: buy an AGP X1950 Pro, or say screw it, and upgrade the whole system to C2D and PCIe...

Money wise get the card.

I have an AMD 64 3200+, 1 gig ram, and purchased ATI X1300 512mb. I have everything turned on with exception of 3D wave/glare/EE(fog is a FPS killer). All sliders on full. Game runs great. The X1950 is a better card then mine and you also have 2 gig ram. Way ahead of the curve.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm thinking about renaming this thread:


This game has massive potential
:hmm:

Why do people always focus on the negatives?

[Ducimus]

I thought about making this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=478848&postcount=364
As its own thread. Maybe i should have.

Back on topic i suppose, i will only be disappointed with SH4 if all the major bugs arent patched up. Particurally the ones i listed as my top 5. Then, and only then, will i be disappointed. But thats just me.

[1mPHUNit0]

Why do people always focus on the negatives?
Why do people always focus on so little positive?

[darksythe]

What are you thinking exactly? The people who developed this game are working on fixing the problems we are telling them about. by saying "We hate what you have done" how is that going to help get the sim fixed, what kind of appreciation for the fact that they are fixing it does that present?

None. Have some patience.
You don't work in software development, do you?

The game has shipped. UBI's interest in this has been concluded.

I can guarantee you there will be few upcoming fixes of any magnitude, especially if it's anything like the SH3 1.4b patch beta testing I participated in before it's release.

As to logical fallacies, no one can say with any certaintly that no other game developer will bankroll a subsim in the future merely because UBI decides to stop producing Subsim due to poor sales. In fact, I'd suggest a competitor may be more likely to enter the market should the only competitor disappear.

The UBISoft apologism surrounding SH4 is quite disturbing.
I love when people remark before reading the post. You have inadvertantly reinforced my statement. If their interests have been concluded how is whining and being ignorant going to get anything done?:damn: And therefore shouldnt we be happy that software companies do anything at all to fix a flawed release. I mean we could be told "Sold as is, too bad." Granted that wouldnt match the companies financial aspirations in the future but hey were just hypothisising(*sp) here anyways.

By the way no im not a software dev. Does this make my opinion any less important then yours? I think not.

[davejb]

Then all that's left for me to open is about 3 threads.


Hi,
I sympathise with that argument, and agree to an extent (quite a lot, in fact) that if your game is going fine then you don't want to read endless bug threads. My point was that despite -

No one is denying newbies or anyone else for that matter the opportunity to voice an opinion.

That's just what happened - a guy came on and complained, and got handed his head and entrails back so fast that he promptly said adios... if there's no support for a thread from the community then it falls down the list and pretty soon it's gone. Give it another week and most of these complaints will be gone the same way, not least thanks to the excellent mod work you can find on here that allows work arounds for many of the problems.

I'd agree that forum etiquette suggests 'find the bug thread' or 'add to an existing bug thread' would have been much better, and the guy should have been told to do that....he got the baying mob instead, and that's just plain ignorant.

[JCWolf]

I totaly agree with you Spearfish (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=230703) .

More I think there are people that are so used to games beeing released
to stores like this that even see this kind of slopy work like a normal thing...:up:


But its not just this game, Ubi has a long story allready this year ,
giving to you 2 more examples, Rainbow six Vegas, and Splint Sell Doble Agent...


I think its getting usual for this company to F....K the final Costumer, US!:yep:


Yea sure .... Wayt for more patchs, come on guys,
Is this normal, or when you see a Mod that comes coverd with
Bugs don't you Complain or post for help.
Can't we talk about a slopy pice of PAYED Work....


Maybe than its better in the future,
to Ubi, releasing the games allready with a second Disk,
with the patch included...

Patchs guys is the simple resulte and mirror of
slopy work from a bunch of guys that are beeing payed to release
a game that haves to work Perfect as it comes...

Patchs are the simple reflex of bad work,
cause simply they do this for work,
and than they get awesomely payed with our money
and ilusions...:nope:

[mookiemookie]

That's just what happened - a guy came on and complained, and got handed his head and entrails back so fast that he promptly said adios... if there's no support for a thread from the community then it falls down the list and pretty soon it's gone. Give it another week and most of these complaints will be gone the same way, not least thanks to the excellent mod work you can find on here that allows work arounds for many of the problems.

I'll agree with you. It was a pretty harsh flaming he got, and that's not usually par for the course around here. Emotions are running pretty high and I think people on both sides of the argument are getting tired of the issue being rehashed. You're right...give it a week and things will hopefully be back to normal.

[tonyeh]

Just for the record the Falcon 4.0 source code was never officially released... it was stolen and released.

JCC

Ha....even that'll do :yep:

[Bum]

That's just what happened - a guy came on and complained, and got handed his head and entrails back so fast that he promptly said adios... if there's no support for a thread from the community then it falls down the list and pretty soon it's gone. Give it another week and most of these complaints will be gone the same way, not least thanks to the excellent mod work you can find on here that allows work arounds for many of the problems.

I'll agree with you. It was a pretty harsh flaming he got, and that's not usually par for the course around here. Emotions are running pretty high and I think people on both sides of the argument are getting tired of the issue being rehashed. You're right...give it a week and things will hopefully be back to normal.

Well I don't think the first poster really got flamed, he got some "welcome and don't give up" comments, then he posted

Thanks for the welcome (Is this text the right colour? Drebel pointed out that the text I used in my first post was hard to read - still finding my feet, so apologies if this is still wrong).
--------------
I'm pleased to hear that other people feel the same way as me. There does appear to be an attitude of "Yeah, yeah! We know there's problems, but just wait a bit and stop whining..”

You guys were pretty friendly to him, he just did not like being told to be patient :)

It is true, the game isn't so good as Silent Hunter III, but I have it one week now and love it! Honest, no big problems for me and it is more fun attcking the Japanese than the Brits, the Japs have battleships everywhere :o

Come on guys lets get behind this game, its the only one we got!!!

[Cakewalk]

Come on guys lets get behind this game, its the only one we got!!!

I'll drink to that. :D :()1:

[Condor96]

Ubi really dropped the ball on this 1, and where did it land? On us the subsim community has become Ubi's beta testers.Everything you need and expect to work doesnt, radar,tdc,damage control,range finding,speed timing, all of it is screwd up.
I dont know about you all but I dont much like paying full price for a half-*** game.

[John Channing]

So what have you done to try to help make the situation better?

JCC

[Boris]

Ubi really dropped the ball on this 1, and where did it land? On us the subsim community has become Ubi's beta testers.Everything you need and expect to work doesnt, radar,tdc,damage control,range finding,speed timing, all of it is screwd up.
I dont know about you all but I dont much like paying full price for a half-*** game.

So what can we do about it? What's done is done... we can only hope Ubi learns from this.
The dev team has done an excellent job doing what they've done, in the short time they've had, and you can tell that they cared about what they were doing. Sloppy workmanship or other oversights are a product of the tight development perios I'm sure. So people should stop blaming them.

So do we blame the Ubi fatcats in France? I bet most haven't so much as looked at the game, and see it as a money making tool on paper. And who can blame them. Unless they're really into subsims, they're just doing their jobs to maximise profit.

So who do we blame? The evil capitalist system of course! But considering all the good it's done us... If you still complain now, you're a Commie!

[McBeck]

So what have you done to try to help make the situation better?

JCC
Yeah...its a funny situation.

If the devs contacted any of you most would grap any chance to betatest.

So I see 2 scenarios:

1) The current release date
We all got the game. We are all able to point out errors.

2) Later release date
A select bunch bot were privledged to test.

So which would you prefer?
Get it now and have voice in the discussion of improvements or waiting a few months more while others had the fun of trying out the game??

I know what I would say if the devs called me and said..."We know you from Subsim, would like to test our game. You would have to do it for free of course..."

We can all argue from here till the cows come home about the ethics in releasing a game with errors and paying full price for it, but that aside....

I think most of the trouble we see now, is purely based in peoples expectations being different from what they got.

[davejb]

Okay,
Spearfish got a welcome from the first few people to reply - entirely in keeping with seeing somebody new pop up. He apologised for maybe posting in the wrong place etc in his opener. Several posts later he was flamed by the mod which prompted some further 'me too' animosity. Whilst I can understand the emotions involved it was still pretty harsh in my view, and I'm surprised to see the flaming started by a mod - last I heard they were supposed to help stop that sort of thing.

We've basically got two extreme views on this, which appear to be incompatible - group 1 think the game is bug ridden, and find the number of CTD's unacceptable in a commercial release, group 2 are determined to put a brave face on it and presumably haven't had the same CTDs to deal with.

For my part (gp 1) I've posted my bugs on Bugzilla, and for every whine (primarily on UBI's site) I've added to an existing thread I've spent similar amounts of time pointing struggling players to fix threads and mods on here that provide a workround.

There'll be new buyers popping up now and then, so guys like Spearfish are going to appear at times, if we're nice to them they might just turn into helpful souls along the way... could be a new guy has just the info you want one day.

[wireman]

Sorry you got gangbanged Spearfish. The mods should have done a better job instead of leading the witch hunt.

[John Channing]

And new members to the site could spend a little time checking things out and reading the FAQ before posting yet another "I am disappointed" thread.

The name of this site is "Subsim.com", not "IwanttocomplainaboutaSubsim.com".

JCC

[wireman]

Yep, I agree. Still shamefull reactions from the top on down.

[Onkel Neal]

Let's give this thread some time to cool,