Copy Protection

[JudgeDredd]

I haven't got this game yet (reinstalled SHIII and happily playing that for the mo with the great GWX mod)

Just wanted to mention this, seeing as this game has a "new" form of copy protection.

First off, I think it's a great form of copy protection. I'm a bit miffed about not being able to use a *you know what* because it's a pain in the royal putting disks in...but if making me put the disk in saves a company money, then I am OK with it...not overjoyed...but OK.

However, it seems to me, by being subversive (pun intended) about it, they could well have shot themselves in the foot. I personally haven't bought the game because of reading about all the bugs and, it transpires, that they may not be bugs at all!!!

If they had been open about it and suggested what type of protection the game uses, I may well have picked up the game already.

Ok...they may not have trapped people by allowing them to complain about something that was programmed in to catch them out (and as it happens, didn't work because people are using *you know what* which the use of is not illegal and it has manifested on valid, purchased games)...but maybe more people would've purchased the game by now.

I personally think a good form of copy protection is to have the gaming experience deteriorate over time (is that called FADE? Did it ever make it into production? Is that what this game uses). It would allow people to try the game before buying. And if you are open about it, then people will understand that the reason their sub has started diving uncontrollably is because they've had enough time to see if the game is up their street or not.

So next time, be open about your copy protection...it may help sales!

Just my tuppence worth.

[gnirtS]

Givent that every single person is experiencing a lot of the listed bugs its either broken copy protection or genuine bugs.

You'd have to assume 95% plus of posters on this forum and the ubi forum are using pirate versions if the above wasn't the case.


They've admitted to a few alleged FADE issues, there maybe more, maybe not. However as most if not all people are experiencing many of the other issues it does look like the game is simply badly bugged.

As for saving the company money, it probably loses them potential customers and protection doesn't work anyway.

[DaMaGe007]

I dont like it at all, drop the game to desktop with a message "Copy Protection failed, Seek Help"
Dont waste valuable development time, engineering bugs into software, not ever.

Quick, easy, lightweight.

The dev scheduale was short enough without this timewasting crap, its usually up to the publisher to add protection anyway they make the most money out of it, the devs can put a few hooks in to prompt the desktop message. THats it IMO, 2d crew, bulging eyes and god knows what else, Im irked that crap is on my hdd.

[gnirtS]

I suspect ubi have a contract with securerom meaning they have to use it on all their games.

This means the devs are probably instructed to add support for it.

Sadly i bet they spent a lot of dev time on the protection scheme and deliberate bugs. Time better spent beta testing and fixing the real bugs.

[kiwi_2005]

I own a few games with securom and have no major issues with it, i would prefer this than starforce.

Im still waiting for SHIV :cry: Mar 30th! the game arrives in NZ:rock: :rock:

[Anachronous]

The trouble is, over the years there have been many reports of copy protection activating on legitimate copies.

Also with fading, how do you know that isnt happening to your real version. Especially when it comes to a game with the bugs this one has.

Its good when the devs give an example of what to look for. Such as 2D crew and such. Though otherwise you are always second guessing (Did my sub really sink due to flooding, or was it fading. Was my torpedo really a dud.. etc)

The belief that Copy protection on the DISK stops pirates is a complete and utter fallacy. It only hurts the people purchasing the game. Except for Online play, the pirates are better off, usually without the restrictions of the protection.

The best copy protection ive seen is online content tied to an account (BF2/2142). What better way to encourage someone to buy the game.

[DaMaGe007]

I get a wierd graphics popup glitch, every 2min44seconds at 4x tc.

times 2min44seconds by 4, thats how often it *flashes* on 1x tc.

Could this be the copy protection daemon polling time ? Hmmm I wonder...

Dev1 - "Look what I did, I made the eyes bulge looks cool huh"
DevLeader - "WOW, that is uber dude, we can use that for the copyprotection !"
Makes the DEVS look like effing children.

[Snuffy]

If they are using copy protection, it doesn't appear to be working with the downloadable version.

I get no screen telling me it's checking anything prior to running the game, as I do with my other games that have cp. However the game seems to run just fine except for my being totally new to this and not knowing what works and what doesn't.

So I dunno.

What files should I look for to determine if cp was sent with the download version?

[DaMaGe007]

I have the DVD version and I dont get a screen telling me its checking either, its not like SH3.

I would guess that securom has a download version of some sort that works with downloaded copies.

[Torcher]

I dont like it at all, drop the game to desktop with a message "Copy Protection failed, Seek Help"
Dont waste valuable development time, engineering bugs into software, not ever.

Quick, easy, lightwait.



I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!

I've got a feeling that some of these bugs like conning tower death and the high speed torp 3 1/2 degree off (actually high speed that isn't high speed) that no one can find the coding/parameters for in the .sim .cfg files are probably copy protection driven.

[John Channing]

"I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!"



Yep... I have it on excellent authority that the developers are all sitting beside their pool, sipping Martinis and smoking big cigars.

That 120 mb patch just kinda wrote itself.

JCC

[gnirtS]

The best copy protection ive seen is online content tied to an account (BF2/2142). What better way to encourage someone to buy the game.

Yep. Trying to protect a game single player is a battle publishers will lose every single time. Most games now though are far more fun multiplayer and that IS possible to protect with online serials and so on.

The other way to encourage people to buy the game is make it worth it. Years ago when sims came with 300 page manuals, full size maps and so on. Was worth the price alone for those goods.

Giving them a small leaflet or PDF manual and treating them like children with buggy copy protection is hardly going to make people think value for money.

[Torcher]

"I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!"



Yep... I have it on excellent authority that the developers are all sitting beside their pool, sipping Martinis and smoking big cigars.

That 120 mb patch just kinda wrote itself.

JCC

I'm confused John, where in my post did I say the developers were doing nothing? Oh, wait, it was what I was implying, right? Was it?

Amazing, I wrote it and the thought never crossed my mind to slam the developers.

Thanks for the input.:roll:

[SteamWake]

I though copy protection schemes were persona non grata here.

Anyhow many bugs will not become apparrent untill a few hundred eyes have viewed it.

[Schunken]

but on the other hand copyprotection is necesarry...

I remember I was a 10 year old boy with my commodore 64... I was have all the games but buy no one....:oops: we swap casettes or later the famous 5 1/4 floppy in school....

..my parents cant take care of this....for them the C64 was what the landing on a moon for a caveman is... this is work of the evil...BURN IT!!! :)

Meanwhile I be 36 and buy my software... :yep:

But as a 10 year old boy I never hear or care of copyright, for me it not was pirating, for me it was share what you got with your friends and classmates....

And I think the pre-teens of today would do the same....and with internet is so much easier than in my child days.....

So, I understand the need of protection....and for me is ok....

I also lock my car before I went into the supermarket ;)

Andreas

[Hartmann]

I´m sure that a lot of bugs are by fade , it is the funtion of this protection, make the game unplayable for ilegal copy, and problably they know all the bugs caused for it.

the problem is if the fading activates it in purchased dvd :dead:

who is de developer of fade ?? have some web page for support like starforce ?? :hmm:
i don´t like have hidden things in my system, at least SF have a tool for remove it in case of problems.

[John Channing]

"I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!"



Yep... I have it on excellent authority that the developers are all sitting beside their pool, sipping Martinis and smoking big cigars.

That 120 mb patch just kinda wrote itself.

JCC

I'm confused John, where in my post did I say the developers were doing nothing? Oh, wait, it was what I was implying, right? Was it?

Amazing, I wrote it and the thought never crossed my mind to slam the developers.

Thanks for the input.:roll:

You're welcome.

For an interesting exercise imagine yourself as one of the Developers.

You didn't have any say in the ship date.. that's just the reality of the business.

You have just spent the last 2 weeks doing everything you can to get the game in the best condition you can, working upwards of 16 hours a day, fixing every possible problem you can to get a patch ready for the ship date. Now add in the fact that you are still working your a** off on the next patch that will fix a great deal more things that you just couldn't get done before the ship date. You have been eating crap, you haven't seen your wife in weeks, and your kids are starting to refer to you as "Whathisname". You are so tired you can barely see straight, but you are still committed to getting as many things right as possible.

Are you there? Good.

Now read the sentence I quoted again.

Words matter.

JCC

[NefariousKoel]

I've mentioned my experiences in another thread with the copy protection in SH4 which I've had thus far.

I've had a SecuRom message saying Disc check timed out. Twice in a row until I restarted windows. The next time it took quite awhile before the game started. I often have the fast torpedoes that don't run straight bug but not always.

Last night I had the game start up in no time after dbl-clicking the shortcut. I proceeded to try out the old mission 3 in training to test my torpedoes. It seems I have to do a test torpedo shoot every time I start my game now because this time my fast torpedoes were on target with no adjustments.

:hmm:

Instead of spraying chicken blood on all the walls in a voodoo ritual before starting that time, I uninstalled the virtual drive in hardware manager and turned the VC5 process off. Yes, I have Virtual CD installed but I wasn't using it for SH4. I'm beginning to wonder if it is having an effect even if not in use. I will try to uninstall VCD when I get home later and see what happens.

[Drokkon]

If they havn't seen their wife in weeks that's their problem. It's not like they are in the military.

I think the best type of protection would be one that would have the new patches check to see if it's a legal copy before installing. So few titles ship finished these days this would work for 99% of games released.

Today's PCgamer has a write up that even Starforce is trying to woe back companies by not being as intrusive. Thankyou Heroes of Might and Magic V.
There must have been a huge amount of cancellations of pre-orders to get Ubi to remove Starforce at the last minute.


The article also said that Ubi dropped it from everything. Since some here are in the know at Ubi. Could they please see if buying SH111 directly from Ubi would still have Starforce or their new protection program?

Cool I'm now a loader. The question is, Am I a 1st loader or a 2nd loader?

[John Channing]

If they havn't seen their wife in weeks that's their problem. It's not like they are in the military.

I think the best type of protection would be one that would have the new patches check to see if it's a legal copy before installing. So few titles ship finished these days this would work for 99% of games released.

Today's PCgamer has a write up that even Starforce is trying to woe back companies by not being as intrusive. Thankyou Heroes of Might and Magic V.
There must have been a huge amount of cancellations of pre-orders to get Ubi to remove Starforce at the last minute.

The article also said that Ubi dropped it from everything. Since some here are in the know at Ubi. Could they please see if buying SH111 directly from Ubi would still have Starforce or their new protection program

And the way you get "in the know from Ubi" is by not saying things like "If they havn't seen their wife in weeks that's their problem."

But I am sure they will be lined up to get right back to you on that.

JCC

[Drokkon]

My point is if family is important you make the time. If your in the military you don't get that luxury. These guys are working a job. In my life I've had to work many 84 hour weeks but make time to see the family. Heck when I worked on the towboats on the Mississippi 30 days on 30 days off, I didn't ask anyone to play violins for me. Why should I be concerned if they don't make time for their families?

Keeping that info from the public would be stupid. I'm sure there would be a line here to get a copy of SH111 without Starforce. The company would be making money on a item they already have done and patched. Most of the sales would be repeat buyers. I guess a healthy bottom line isn't important.

[Torcher]

"I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!"



Yep... I have it on excellent authority that the developers are all sitting beside their pool, sipping Martinis and smoking big cigars.

That 120 mb patch just kinda wrote itself.

JCC

I'm confused John, where in my post did I say the developers were doing nothing? Oh, wait, it was what I was implying, right? Was it?

Amazing, I wrote it and the thought never crossed my mind to slam the developers.

Thanks for the input.:roll:

You're welcome.

For an interesting exercise imagine yourself as one of the Developers.

You didn't have any say in the ship date.. that's just the reality of the business.

You have just spent the last 2 weeks doing everything you can to get the game in the best condition you can, working upwards of 16 hours a day, fixing every possible problem you can to get a patch ready for the ship date. Now add in the fact that you are still working your a** off on the next patch that will fix a great deal more things that you just couldn't get done before the ship date. You have been eating crap, you haven't seen your wife in weeks, and your kids are starting to refer to you as "Whathisname". You are so tired you can barely see straight, but you are still committed to getting as many things right as possible.

Are you there? Good.

Now read the sentence I quoted again.

Words matter.

JCC
:roll:
<yawn>

No need for me to waste any more time.

Paraphrasing a wise man's words "Be careful getting into discussions with certain types of people because they'll drag it down to their level where they are experts."

[John Channing]

"I couldn't agree more. There has been a lot of time spent trying to figure out cures for these bugs ... time by the gaming community!"



Yep... I have it on excellent authority that the developers are all sitting beside their pool, sipping Martinis and smoking big cigars.

That 120 mb patch just kinda wrote itself.

JCC

I'm confused John, where in my post did I say the developers were doing nothing? Oh, wait, it was what I was implying, right? Was it?

Amazing, I wrote it and the thought never crossed my mind to slam the developers.

Thanks for the input.:roll:

You're welcome.

For an interesting exercise imagine yourself as one of the Developers.

You didn't have any say in the ship date.. that's just the reality of the business.

You have just spent the last 2 weeks doing everything you can to get the game in the best condition you can, working upwards of 16 hours a day, fixing every possible problem you can to get a patch ready for the ship date. Now add in the fact that you are still working your a** off on the next patch that will fix a great deal more things that you just couldn't get done before the ship date. You have been eating crap, you haven't seen your wife in weeks, and your kids are starting to refer to you as "Whathisname". You are so tired you can barely see straight, but you are still committed to getting as many things right as possible.

Are you there? Good.

Now read the sentence I quoted again.

Words matter.

JCC
:roll:
<yawn>

No need for me to waste any more time.

Paraphrasing a wise man's words "Be careful getting into discussions with certain types of people because they'll drag it down to their level where they are experts."

Good advice. I wish I had followed it.

JCC