Any way to build a solution without using "lock" feature?

[XanderF]

IE., having to enter everything manually into the TDC.

Ship class and mast height are obviously easy to determine from the book without a "lock". AOB, too - that's a guesstimate either way. Speed...hrm. If we had range, this wouldn't be too bad. Range, AOB, and degrees on the 'scope traversed in 'x' time (determined by stopwatch) make this easy enough, but...

...RANGE. That's an issue. When using the stadimeter, it doesn't tell you what the angle is the scope is SET to at that moment. With a 'lock', you just bracket the target with the black lines, and *poof*, you have range. WE know that's a basic trig function to determine the range, with the size of the angle being a key factor, but...

...I can't think of a way to check that? Anyone?

[Vacillator]

There's some nice advice at the site below, but I'm not sure whether the methods do what you want because personally I'm too lazy and use auto!

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

[von Zelda]

Range is NOT critical in manual targeting.

Target speed is the most important factor in manual targeting. Then comes Angle on the Bow. Target speed and Angle on the Bow input into the TDC will correctly compute the offset angle for the torpedo when you line up the crosshairs on the target regardless of what range you have input into the TDC.

I estimate target speed as I watch the approaching target. Use the Nav map to plot points on the target's course and determine the time interval between these points and measure the distance. Use this equation: Distance in kilometers x 32.5 divided by minutes = knots. The longer the time and the greater the distance, the more accurate the estimate.

Assuming your course intercepts that of the target, determine the Angle on the Bow at the intercept point (that's at zero bearing to you). Place the periscope or UZO at zero bearing and manually input the Angle on the Bow with the notepad. Be sure to do all the clicks to input it into the TDC. Now you can rotate the scope onto the target and follow it, thus you will always have the correct AOB.

I usually estimate the torpedo range at firing to the torpedo intercep point; this I manually input into the TDC. It has no affect other than the stopwatch.

I hope this is helpful.

[raduz]

why do you keep using a not-very-reliable stadimeter and eyeball, especially if there is a hydrophone at your diposal...

[XanderF]

Range is NOT critical in manual targeting.

Target speed is the most important factor in manual targeting. Then comes Angle on the Bow. Target speed and Angle on the Bow input into the TDC will correctly compute the offset angle for the torpedo when you line up the crosshairs on the target regardless of what range you have input into the TDC.

I estimate target speed as I watch the approaching target. Use the Nav map to plot points on the target's course and determine the time interval between these points and measure the distance. Use this equation: Distance in kilometers x 32.5 divided by minutes = knots. The longer the time and the greater the distance, the more accurate the estimate.

With no map updates, so there is no 'enemy ship' icon on themap, the only piece of information you have on the target is bearing to you, and a more-or-less accurate AOB (depending on your guessing skill).

It's entirely possible that a slow target close to you will pass over exactly the same lines of bearing than a distant target moving very fast. Obviously, the solution for a 45 knot torpedo will be wildly different for a 4 knot target at 300m or a 26 knot target at 2000m - although they will both be crossing your periscope at the exact same rate.

Ergo, you really do NEED the range in order to make the shot. And the stadimeter should get that for you...if we could read the angle it is displaying.

[finchOU]

Getting range on the attack/O scope with anything but a pretty calm sea state is very difficult. I personally dont use the "lock" function...as I think it is chessy and unrealistic. That makes things more difficult. I have found that if I've not had time to shadow a Convoy before trying to attack it...that the best way to get acurate distance calculations is wait until the target is within about 2500 meters or so. I usually start by getting multipule rough distances until I think its about 2500. Then I just have to Play with the mouse and ctrl+arrow keys to try and line up the waterline and mast height. I usually take three observations at 3 min 15 sec intervals (3:15 makes what ever distance the target travels in that time=speed in knots) I think that the higher the speed of the U-boat the more stable it is as well (but dont quote me because i usually am crawling at 2 knots when making this kind of attack).

Another point you brought up is the fact that unless you have IDed the ship you cant use he angle bar thingee (not a true stadimeter). Plus the fact that even after you have IDed a ship it will Lose its ID sometimes...another pain in my butt!
my technique works most all of the time...of course i dont ever shoot targets over 2000 meters


Like you said above Range is critical to being able to Plot out your target when trying to solve for Course and Speed.....its just a pain in butt in this game because of the some game quirks IMHO. Think about this....what if you could control the angle bar with the up/down arrows (using ctrl button for very very small changes and just hold the scope on the waterline with the mouse ....that way you would beable to counter act the sweal effect on the scope....thats how I would have designed it in 20/20 hindsight that is. :damn:

[XanderF]

But you can't set any kind of ID without a 'lock', though? Until you 'lock' the ship, the notepad won't take any input - it just displays a few things (usually, whatever you updated before the lock dropped).

I mean, I really don't have a problem with the process as it is aside from the cheesy 'lock' feature. If I could just enter things into the notepad, and derive my TDC input from that, I'd be a happy camper - that actually simulates very well how the captain and XO work on the solution (captain looking through the scope and calling out numbers, which the XO jots down to work into the firing computer).

It's just that...this doesn't seem to WORK.

[P_Funk]

You could always just ask your WO for the range to target. Some would consider that a cheat but then apparently the Germans didn't have a stadimeter either so...

The other thing to note is that while the stadimeter can be very inaccurate, the WO is always accurate... to a degree. In some ways you can keep the uncertainty of the range because the WO only gives you range up to 100 meters. He'll say "range 4400", even if its 4499. That way you can have slightly unreliable info while not having to deal with a locking function. Although the downside to that is that he only looks at the nearest target (an annoying SH3 thing that the Sonarman has too). Depending on what I'm doing I'll use the WO or the stad. If its a convoy you could just get range on the nearest merchant and then use that to figure the range of the other ships in the column or just add 500 for the next deepest column. This can work too because range isn't needed to be perfectly accurate.

This of course doesn't solve the problem for submerged attack.

[GoldenRivet]

You could always just ask your WO for the range to target. Some would consider that a cheat but then apparently the Germans didn't have a stadimeter either

Now i could be wrong here because i was wrong once before lol

but everyone keeps saying the Germans didnt have periscope Stadimeters...

Didnt the Germans invent the Periscope Range Finding Stadimeter some time around 1900- 1905??? i could almost swear i read this some place

[XanderF]

Seems like Germans had stadimeters, yes (http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/SH2/GermStadimeter/German%20Stadimeter.jpg)

Only date I can find in that article is the year "1914". My German isn't good enough to tell what its context is, though. It looks closer to the 'double image' one than the weird thing we got in Sh3, though.

[P_Funk]

Well, then if they did have them you could just pretend that you're letting Fritz do the math for you. :rotfl:

Oh, you could also just use the vertical ticks to find the angle of elevation and then use that in the equation that the computer uses. I forget it exactly. Something like Range=mast height * SIN(elevation).


EDIT. Found it. Range = Mast height/Tan(angle of elevation).

The manual says its Sin but I read somewhere that Tan is the technically correct one despite it making little practical difference.