Bug unveiled: Watching Crew Deaths

[Joaoperru]

Hi mates i've found the reason of the watching crew deaths.
Every compartment heals a wounded crewmember of 1 health every few hours or so...
Every compartment but the external tower where the watching crew is. That place, instead of healing, WOUNDS the watching crew of some health every hour.
It must be an error in the config files... and i'm looking for it.

[9th_cow]

i wonder if its intentional. maybe poorly implemented but perhaps they were trying to simulate something with that?
good discovery though :)

[Joaoperru]

Weird thing is that once someone in the watch tower gets wounded, every unwounded man you move there starts losing health either. Incredible...
By now, once someone get a scratch on watch, i know that ALL OF MY 3 WATCHES ARE SURELY GONNA DIE. Unplayable like that, gotta find the line on the config files.

[phloon]

Weird thing is that once someone in the watch tower gets wounded, every unwounded man you move there starts losing health either. Incredible...
By now, once someone get a scratch on watch, i know that ALL OF MY 3 WATCHES ARE SURELY GONNA DIE. Unplayable like that, gotta find the line on the config files.

This has been my experience as well. After an attack I tried moving the injured men to another station, but ever since that point people on deck would randomly get injured. The theory in another thread is that the injuries are being caused by air attacks which, due to high time-compression, the player is never notified of. I'm not 100% sure that that's the case since it doesn't seem to happen until after damage and injuries are sustained.

Which config files are you looking through, out of curiosity?

[oblivionenigma]

You are amazing. I've been :damn:ing over this bug. :\ If the basic idea was intentional but just poorly implemented, I wonder what the actual intention of that coding is?

I wonder if this is related to the repeatedly damaged radar/periscope/what-have-you bug as well? After all, internal systems seem to repair fine. Just the ones near the watch crew can't get permanently repaired.

[Rilder]

The theory in another thread is that the injuries are being caused by air attacks which, due to high time-compression, the player is never notified of. I'm not 100% sure that that's the case since it doesn't seem to happen until after damage and injuries are sustained.

Which config files are you looking through, out of curiosity?

I really don't think this is the case, as why doesn't it happen to me unless I previously took damage? Equiped with Radar I get reports of incomming aircraft 70-80% of the time and those that sneak through always get detected by the watch, why would the radar and watch crew suddenly decide they don't wanna work? Also so far 100% of the aircraft thats attacked me has had bombs why wouldn't they bomb me and fly off like usual and straff me.

[GSpector]

This "BUG" sounds almost like the one in SH3 where if the watch tower is damaged before submerging, all is fine until you resurface then everyone seems to drop dead, 1 after the other starting with the crew taking watch.

[Joaoperru]

Anyway this IS a bug. My crew gets killed even in friendly waters, without the possibility of an enemy air attack. And as Ridler said, air attacks are always detected by radar or crew and time compression goes to 1, maybe a little too late (after being hit sometimes), but usually you notice it.

No, they just lose health like the other sailors in the interior places gain health.
I've been looking through many cfg files, but no luck. Not at home now so i dont remember exactly which cfg files i've checked.
Just something like
(sort of...)
[DAMAGE]
external=1
semi external=0.5
internal=0.1

If some of you has time to check you're welcome.

[novafluxx]

There SHOULD have been a 'clear the bridge' button to clear the watch off the bridge durring aircraft attacks, leaving only the AA gunners and maybe deck gunners if you're using them.

The watch has no reason to be standing there like fools while being straffed in the first place. Now there's this bug that piles on top...

Does anyone know if its only the bridge/watch crew, or is it ALL the men on deck (ie, flak and deck gun?)

[Joaoperru]

Some partols ago something weird happened to my deck gun crew and AA crew... cant remmeber well, but i do not exclude that i had the same problem...

[partyboy]

Hi mates i've found the reason of the watching crew deaths.
Every compartment heals a wounded crewmember of 1 health every few hours or so...
Every compartment but the external tower where the watching crew is. That place, instead of healing, WOUNDS the watching crew of some health every hour.
It must be an error in the config files... and i'm looking for it.
Yep, that's exactly what I experienced; injured crew eventually die, and anyone moved to the deck starts to lose health as well. My deck was damaged and I couldn't repair it either.

Hopefully the devs are aware and it'll be fixed in the next patch, because all it takes is some minor damage for your patrol to be ruined (if you care about returning home without any dead.)

[bakalakadaka]

It happened to me too.I just cant understand people who played SH all their life from the first part and are not angry or even asking whats with their crewmembers.I also have a theory about AA gunners and Flak gunner.In my oppinion they too lose health but it seems that they lose it slower then the watch.When my watchmen died i checked and they had about 70HP.Any luck with finding the cfg?

[Schlageter-JG26]

JP above is on the right track.

I do NOT know how to properal forestall the issue of crew being wounded/dying on Watch so they function correctly.

But by setting those files he mentioned regarding Exposure values to 0, they are essentially in God-Mode against any external attack. If your sub starts coming apart, they will still die. But it functions as a tolerable patch for now.

Now if we can get the Save Games to work properly.....

[Waterboy]

I noticed my guys falling asleep. I replaced the watch deck with others and they promptly fall asleep. (or are dying......they are all hunched over). I tought the game handled crew sleep on it's own?

Either that, or I am seeing the same thing you guys are.

[bakalakadaka]

Can you tell me in what cfg is are those lines?

[bakalakadaka]

And what EXACTLY do I have to change.Bless you if its true that it works!

[Schlageter-JG26]

This first one is to find ALL the regular compartments.
\Data\Submarine\NSS_GAR.upc (works the same with each different sub file)

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
CompartmentType= 1
StatusActive= Yes
ID= GarSternTorpedo
NameDisplayable= After Torpedo Room
Type=NULL
FunctionalType= SternTorpedoRoom
MechanicalCoef= 0.5 ;0..1
ElectricsCoef= 0 ;0..1
GunsCoef= 0.5
WatchmanCoef= 0 ;0..1
WatchStandingCoef= 0.048
MaintenanceCoef= 0.0144
RepairsCoef= 0.072
ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072
SleepCoef= -0.12
LeadersSlots=3
CrewMembersSlots= 15
EffciencyDenominator=1
EffciencyDenominatorBS=2
Hitpoints=999999
CrewExposure=0
EquipmentsExposure=0
WeaponsExposure=0

THIS file and location is for the CONN TOWERS...
\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\UnitParts1Gato.upc

Just go and change the three Exposure values at the bottom to 0 for the Watch tower and the one or two Flak positions. Some sub files have FOUR sections to cover, others only have THREE. This is because each sub has multiple evolutions of different Conn Towers at different points in the war. So be sure to go through and apply the fix to all year levels. While you're there, you can reset the date structures so you can have a later conn tower at the start of the war.

I know it's not perfect, but it has kept my deck crew alive so far.

[bakalakadaka]

Thanks!Did it now i'll check tomorrow and i'll post the results.

[Galanti]

I'll have to check tonight to be sure, but I remeber coming across what seemed to be Global exposure settings in one of the configs, Main or Basic perhaps.

This might be an easier fix than indiviudal sub files.

[U-Schultz]

There was a post on the Ubi forums where a gentleman said the "bridge death" bug was related to going flank speed on the surface. Have not had a chance to test it myself but he was convinced that was the problem.

[partyboy]

In my experience the speed makes no difference.

[Joaoperru]

There was a post on the Ubi forums where a gentleman said the "bridge death" bug was related to going flank speed on the surface. Have not had a chance to test it myself but he was convinced that was the problem.

Dont think that's the problem.. i rarely go at flank speed... and not during my checks

Glad to see that Schlageter found those lines... i'm gonna try in a few minutes then i'll tell you what i see...
Anyway i found these lines in the "basic.cfg"

[DAMAGE]
OpenComp=1
PartiallyOpenComp=0.5
EnclosedComp=0.1

Maybe just changing those we will patch everything up... let's try all of us and share experience. I really want to solve AT LEAST that damned thing. For now it's the one killing my experience the most.

[phloon]

In my experience the speed makes no difference.

I can confirm that speed makes no difference. The last time this but ruined my patrol I was doing nothing but nighttime cruising at standard.

[Joaoperru]

Ok guys: after 3 hours of trying different things here is my experience to you all.
I used the
[DAMAGE]
OpenComp=1 (i put 0,1)
PartiallyOpenComp=0.5 (0,1 here too)
EnclosedComp=0.1

And it was useless. Found a good spot to get attacked and got airstrikes all the way. Long time spent though to get the bombs into the right quarters (watching crew and AA/deck gun), without too much damage... anyway:

AA/Deck gun

- People at AA/Deck gun never heal. They lose health at a VERY slow rate.
- If they go to another quarter they start healing.
- If one from another quarter goes with a wounded one in Deck gun he starts to lose health (very slow rate too).
- if i move all of them (AA/deck gun) to another quarter they heal and those who take their places dont lose health.
-Conclusion: seems like a wounded guy at the AA/Deck gun places has a strange virus which kills everyone near him. Put wounded men in other quarters (even watch crew quarter if none there is already wounded) and they will heal themselves.

Watch Crew station

- People who get wounded in the watch crew station start losing health more quickly but at DIFFERENT PACES. Some like 20 every 2 hours.. other nothing for many hours.
- If you change an entire row of wounded people with 4 unwounded, the new guys start to lose health. The former wounded ones gain health.

Hope that this is of some help. Found no solution for it but at least we know well what's happening now.
and it's really weird... most of all the fact that they lose health at different paces, as if there's something random on it or there's something that is linked to some skill they have.

It's all for tonight, mates!

[joea]

Has anyone thought to contact the devs with this info? :hmm:

[phloon]

Ok guys: after 3 hours of trying different things here is my experience to you all.
I used the
[DAMAGE]
OpenComp=1 (i put 0,1)
PartiallyOpenComp=0.5 (0,1 here too)
EnclosedComp=0.1

*snip*



I'm guessing that it's not as straightforward as simply adjusting values in a config file since the problem only occurs after damage. Some calculation must be getting thrown off.

Has anyone found a file which describes the effects of heavy weather? Maybe more clues lie there.

[Balu0]

Hi

I'm experiencing the same thing, and this is realy the only critical bug for me too to have fun...

I did not know about this thread so I started a new in the MOD section here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109205

In a Nutshel what I found that the problem is with the Conning Tower only...
For me the Deck gun is not effected. But I only got it damaged once...
More test was done on the watch tower and the AA Gun.

What I found that not only the crew take damage.. to be honest I think this bug have nothing to do with actual healt with the crew..

I found that the EQUIPMENTS themselfs are suffering damage, and that couse the crew health loss.

My AA gun was the best test subject it can have only 1 guy... so after damage, if it have someone in it's slot, after repaired the gun god damaged over and over again, geting 15 points of damage cousing 1 health loss for the guy in its slott...

This is the same with the watch tower and radar... I'm sure most of you heared the anyoing radar damaged / radar repaired / radar damaged bug.. whis is the couse..

For some reason the actual damage that was inflictid to the equipment in the Conning Tower and only the Conning Tower gets applyed over and over again... but only to the structure and equipment (maybe not even to structure , just the equipment..) and this damage is spreading to the crew...


Any toughts what can couse this... I'm 80% sure we will find the bug in the Conning Tower's data files... \Data\Objects

Edit: If it would be an EXE related calculation problem, it would apply for the whole ship IMHO not just the conning tower

[Seminole]

As usual I'm the odd man out. I've finished 5 patrols using TC of 2048 regularly. I haven't encountered this even once. :shifty:

...But this time around I'm not complaining about it not happening to me.

[Schlageter-JG26]

JP - yes, the game is desienged with what appears to be a chance-to-hit ratio for the crew in each compartment. Hence the values I posted way earlier. If you set those values for the Conn to all be 0, then your crew will not suffer damage from attacks to the Conn or the AA positions.

But that is based on the presumption that the health damage comes from damage inflicted somehow to those spots on the sub itself. That may or may not be the case.

My game in as-delivered condition would end up with the crew ALL exhausting themselves by the return from patrol. It would start with the Conn/AA crews and the rest would also slowly perish from exhaustion. I had not taken hits or damage in any way and presumed there to be a problem with the sleep schedule. Almost none of them EVER slept. I tried rotating positions and the guys in the worst shape to the shift that would be sleeping but it didn't work.

The fact that the ENTIRE crew was passing out and dying like that DOES make me wonder about the sub taking damage. I've been fiddling with the Hitpoints and other variables in all the files for a few days now and no longer have problems with the crew. Their team efficiencies are always maxed, they sleep seemingly ok and regenerate their fatigue quickly. Likewise, I set all my compartments so the crew themselves don't take damage. That setup is over-the-top for any sim die-hards, but it HAS eliminated the "death by fatigue" issues.

Sailors are hard workers, but no Captain runs his ship that hard for longer than is necessary. I am wondering more and more if the sub WAS taking damage slowly somehow and if the crews were exhausting themselves doing Maintenance service. Can't say I ever saw anything pop up in the damage report though.

This one remains a mystery to me, but if any of you are having problems try the 0 Chance mod first (\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\UnitParts#Shipname.upc ) Within each of those files should be Three or Four separate sets of values for each available Conn Tower throughout the war, so set the 0s for the Watch and any AA positions and report back. I've got LOADS more mods on my rig, so much that I can't say with any certainty what is or is not keeping my crew alive. So give this a shot and if it doesn't work, let me know and I'll try looking deeper into what I've already modded with my crew values.

I can't help but keep wondering if this is some sort of SecuRom issue. :shifty: The way it takes so long but eventually terminates your game for you seems like something they'd do to spoil the game for people with invalid copies. Thing is, mine's valid. Hopefully its just a glitch the devs missed when they Bet.... oooooh, snap! That's right. I forgot. THEY NEVER BETA TESTED THE DANG THING! :nope::roll::dead:

[Balu0]

It is the Sub! (teh Sub's Conning Tower to be precise) that takeing damage! over and over again... I'm 100% , best to test with the AA gun...

read my post 2 above....

[bakalakadaka]

Can't wait to test if we had solved the problem.I can also comfirm that it only hapeens when you take damage.I went on a patrol from Pearl Harbor to Japan and back(i didnt take any damage)and it was all right noone died.I already changed those lines so i'll test it soon and then i will post.

[modisch]

I'd like to add a tidbit that seems to be consistent with the conning tower theory. I've taken damage to the conning tower and had the bug rear it's ugly head... but damage to the deck gun seems to be handled fine. It's strictly conning tower/AA.

I have yet to find anything in the files, though, that would indicate some sort of damage function aside from exposure to enemy fire.

[partyboy]

This bug is such a bummer. I started a new career and my first mission was to take photos of ships in Tokyo harbour. I spent about 90 minutes doing that, sank some destroyers while I was there, good times. I complete the objective and send a report, and receive a new objective, to patrol the East China Sea. Cool, I thought, a new objective. I'll just go to midway to resupply and then get r done. Except, at some point, I received some deck damage.. so I have the bug. So now I have to babysit the watch crew while I attempt a new objective that might take another few hours, replacing the crew every day or so to make sure they don't lose too much health. Meh.

Worst bug ever.

[Balu0]

I'd like to add a tidbit that seems to be consistent with the conning tower theory. I've taken damage to the conning tower and had the bug rear it's ugly head... but damage to the deck gun seems to be handled fine. It's strictly conning tower/AA.

I have yet to find anything in the files, though, that would indicate some sort of damage function aside from exposure to enemy fire.

Confirmed the Deck Gun is OK... just tested it..

Btw, try look for the parameters controling equipment malfunctions... this is a new thing in SH4, and I would not be surprised if the DEVS messed up this feature.

Just a theory:
After your AA or Conning tower gets damaged tha nrepaired, equipment like the AA GUN itself, and for the watch the radar, start to malfunction even after repaired, simulating no correct repair or something..

but their malfunction chance is messed up or something and this is the reason they always fail time after time...
I'm not home so I can't start to look for this parameters... but I just had this idea.. what do you guys think ?

[phloon]

I'd like to add a tidbit that seems to be consistent with the conning tower theory. I've taken damage to the conning tower and had the bug rear it's ugly head... but damage to the deck gun seems to be handled fine. It's strictly conning tower/AA.

I have yet to find anything in the files, though, that would indicate some sort of damage function aside from exposure to enemy fire.
Confirmed the Deck Gun is OK... just tested it..

Btw, try look for the parameters controling equipment malfunctions... this is a new thing in SH4, and I would not be surprised if the DEVS messed up this feature.

Just a theory:
After your AA or Conning tower gets damaged tha nrepaired, equipment like the AA GUN itself, and for the watch the radar, start to malfunction even after repaired, simulating no correct repair or something..

but their malfunction chance is messed up or something and this is the reason they always fail time after time...
I'm not home so I can't start to look for this parameters... but I just had this idea.. what do you guys think ?

You may have something here. It could be that the previously damaged sub components have a much higher chance of malfunctioning. Now, whenever a sub component is damaged in an attack the crew in that compartment have a chance of being injured. What if the "malfunctions" have the same effect? If that's the case then each time something broke due to malfunction the crew in that compartment suffer the effects of an enemy attack.

[Werewolf13]

OK...
I've run three full length patrols so far and not once has anyone on the bridge watch died.

Are you guys maybe going to battle stations and not turning it off when the battle is over.

Staying at battle stations is very fatiguing.

REAL LIFE: I bet most of you've never stood a look out watch outside the skin of a ship in the North Atlantic or North Pacific. You can't do it for very long or you will die!

My guess - y'all are forgetting to secure from battlestations. If not - oh well.

[zenko]

Has anyone tried going on a patrol without any watch crew? I tried and it seems to detect targets just as efficient as if theres a full watch crew... weird.

Since I don't need any watch crew, the damage problem never spread to other places but the Watch area, all my crew are safe.

But i still feel that the devs should solve this asap.

[DeePsix U-48]

I have also noticed if you are submerged and being depth charged, any damage taken by the AA gun or the Flak gun translate to the crew assigned there despite the fact that they are now inside the sub. The game treats them as if they are outside the sub. I guess when im under water and being depth charged I should move them to the Damage control team to keep them from being depth charge killed.

[Iron Budokan]

I was also wondering if this might not be from keeping the crew on battlestations? :hmm:

[phloon]

OK...
I've run three full length patrols so far and not once has anyone on the bridge watch died.

Are you guys maybe going to battle stations and not turning it off when the battle is over.

Staying at battle stations is very fatiguing.

REAL LIFE: I bet most of you've never stood a look out watch outside the skin of a ship in the North Atlantic or North Pacific. You can't do it for very long or you will die!

My guess - y'all are forgetting to secure from battlestations. If not - oh well.

I've experienced the crew death/ random deck watch damage while not at general quarters. This much I know.

[Joaoperru]

OK...
I've run three full length patrols so far and not once has anyone on the bridge watch died.

Are you guys maybe going to battle stations and not turning it off when the battle is over.

Staying at battle stations is very fatiguing.

REAL LIFE: I bet most of you've never stood a look out watch outside the skin of a ship in the North Atlantic or North Pacific. You can't do it for very long or you will die!

My guess - y'all are forgetting to secure from battlestations. If not - oh well.

Mate we're talking about real bugs here, not just keeping our crew healthy and clean. We're talking about people that did hours and hours of checks and studies about this freaky things that cant make me sleep at night... i'm not playing anymore until this bug is fixed

[modisch]

it's definitely a bug... i can run a whole patrol (poorly) in general quarters without anyone dying, so long as my conning tower goes unharmed. I can run a whole patrol without general quarters, ever... and meticulously resting my men... and all of my watch crew will die if my conning tower is damaged.

it's broken. broken broken broken.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the "ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D" flags in the UPC files. It seems like a lot of the components that have problems are set to "-1". I wonder if I can arbitrarily change them to match another compartment...

-m

[partyboy]

OK...
I've run three full length patrols so far and not once has anyone on the bridge watch died.
And was your deck damaged? They die because the deck is damaged and cannot be repaired permanently, so it continually hurts them.

Are you guys maybe going to battle stations and not turning it off when the battle is over.
No.

My guess - y'all are forgetting to secure from battlestations. If not - oh well. My guess - your deck never received any damage on those patrols. Every single time my deck is damaged, this bug appears. It's 100% repeatable.

[Joaoperru]

I'm really amazed by the fact that seems like just a bunch of us UNDERSTANDS the real letdown of this mess....
I STOPPED playing the game BACAUSE OF THIS. No care about resolution or FSAA, no care about aircrafts or overall difficulty (important but secondary right now). This annoying bug is wasting my precious time on this sim. And would love it i know.
I really hope that we can find a way to fix it.
I WANT my crew to get realistically injured but i dont want to know that if the got injured they'll surely die.
It's just incredibily unplayable and i would like that every single player knew that.

[joea]

I'm really amazed by the fact that seems like just a bunch of us UNDERSTANDS the real letdown of this mess....
I STOPPED playing the game BACAUSE OF THIS. No care about resolution or FSAA, no care about aircrafts or overall difficulty (important but secondary right now). This annoying bug is wasting my precious time on this sim. And would love it i know.
I really hope that we can find a way to fix it.
I WANT my crew to get realistically injured but i dont want to know that if the got injured they'll surely die.
It's just incredibily unplayable and i would like that every single player knew that.

I agree, it looks like a show-stopping bug. (Airplanes are impirtant though too) :know:

Did you add it to the wish list for the 1.2 patch?

[partyboy]

You should be able to continue playing by monitoring the health of the watch crew and manually cycling them out every now and then. Pain in the ass, yeah, but if you're otherwise enjoying the game, it's a temporary workaround for this irritating problem.

[Joaoperru]

I really hope it's just temporary... but not everyone is aware of this and not present in many wish lists for patch 1.2
I'll add my wish list soon

[Seminole]

Just wondering if you guys experiencing crew fatigue deaths filled all your open slots before going on patrol?

I did..... even all the open damage control slots.


I have finished 8 patrols...used 2048 TC often...been attacked and damaged by planes and as yet I have not run across this.


Plus.... also I make double SURE to stand down from battlestations before going into any level of TC.


This is perplexing to me too even though I have not as yet encountered it....knock on wood.

[gord96]

I'm really amazed by the fact that seems like just a bunch of us UNDERSTANDS the real letdown of this mess....
I STOPPED playing the game BACAUSE OF THIS. No care about resolution or FSAA, no care about aircrafts or overall difficulty (important but secondary right now). This annoying bug is wasting my precious time on this sim. And would love it i know.
I really hope that we can find a way to fix it.
I WANT my crew to get realistically injured but i dont want to know that if the got injured they'll surely die.
It's just incredibily unplayable and i would like that every single player knew that.

yeah. this is the reason I have gone back to SH3 until this gets fixed. Nothing else about the game bothers me much, but this bug is just dumb.

[Prientje]

Just wondering if you guys experiencing crew fatigue deaths filled all your open slots before going on patrol?

I did..... even all the open damage control slots.


I have finished 8 patrols...used 2048 TC often...been attacked and damaged by planes and as yet I have not run across this.


Plus.... also I make double SURE to stand down from battlestations before going into any level of TC.


This is perplexing to me too even though I have not as yet encountered it....knock on wood.




yes, it could be, that most players make one inportend but fatal mistake...


this....

Plus.... also I make double SURE to stand down from battlestations before going
into any level of TC.


they dont make sure to stand down from the battlestation in tc....

[bakalakadaka]

I am also considering stopping playing game until this gets fixed.And i also noticed that when conning/aa gets damaged the crew doesnt immidiately start losing health.On a patrol it usually happens while already returning to my base.And YOU guys who think that we're forgetting to get off battle stations:DO YOU THINK WE'RE FREAKING RETARDED?DOES IT SOUND WEIRD WHEN WE ALL SAY IT HAPPENS ONLY WHEN THE CONN/AA IS DAMAGED?BETTER SHUT UP AND BE HAPPY IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO YOU!

[partyboy]

Sigh, it's not a battle stations issue. It's a bug, and part of the bug is that your deck equipment will constantly fail for no reason..if you repair it, it just breaks again even when you're completely alone, which has absolutely nothing to do with battle stations anyway.

[stomper]

I'm not new to Subsim but I am new to posting so hello , this maybe a fix for the AA deaths issue with the Flak gun. In the Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData folder, select the sub type your playing and change the following:


[UnitPart 1.Compartment 2]
CompartmentType= 2
StatusActive= No
ID= GatoConnAA
NameDisplayable= AA Gun
Type=NULL
FunctionalType= FlakRoom
MechanicalCoef= 0.2
ElectricsCoef= 0
GunsCoef= 0.5 ;0..1
WatchmanCoef= 0.5
WatchStandingCoef= 0.048
MaintenanceCoef= 0.0144
RepairsCoef= 0.072
ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072
SleepCoef= -0.12
LeadersSlots=0
CrewMembersSlots= 0 ------------------------> change to 1
EffciencyDenominator=1
EffciencyDenominatorBS=1
Hitpoints=200
CrewExposure=0.3
EquipmentsExposure=0.1
WeaponsExposure=0.1


I'm currently testing this and so far have been able to exchange a wounded unit without the replacement becoming injured both above and below the surface. I've not had the conning tower issue but check the crew member and leader slots match the available slots for the type of sub your playing. Maybe the bug is due to crewmembers located in a slot in game thats different to the data file.


Cheers, Si

[partyboy]

I wonder about those *Exposure variables. The issue does seem to revolve around the damaged deck; If you repair the deck it's possible for an injured watch crew to become healthy again.. but then the deck breaks and the cycle begins again. The deck is hurting them.. and since you can't permanently repair it, it kills them.

If the issue isn't fixed in the next patch then I'll start playing with the config files.

[RypeL]

To me it seems like it only happens when the radar got damaged. On my last patrol the tower/AA Gun was heavily hit by a plane but the radar stayed intact. The AA gun was repaired then damaged again like usual but the health of the crewmen didnt suffer from that. So i think as long as the Radar isent hit youre ok.

[Werewolf13]

OK...

I'm no dev apologist nor a freakin' fanboi. Check my SH4 messages and you'll see I'm not terribly happy with SH4 so far...

That SAID:

The Watch Crew Deaths - finally experienced it. Kinda. Maybe I'm overthinking this buy my experience says this happenstance percieved by so many as a bug is really a feature. People are perceiving it as a bug because they just aren't used to wounded guys maybe dying. Get wounded in real life and you're not close to good medical care and there's a real good chance you're gonna die. Medics on a sub could only do so much.

Here's what happened to me and I did some things I wouldn't normally have done based on this thread.

Took damage from DD gunfire. Dove. Noted health levels.

Then thought about the situation. When a guy gets wounded he may die anyway - the medics may not be able to stabilize him.

I had 5 guys turn pink with varying health levels from 67 to 99 that were assigned to bridge watch.

After diving 2 of them went from 77 to 70. The one guy at 99 stayed there. The guy at 67 dropped to 63 and then made a recover back up to 70.

To see if just being assigned to a bridge station wounded people I put a 100 health guy on the bridge after surfacing and repairing bridge damage (radio antenna). He stayed at 100.

What am I missing here.

Seems to me that the devs have modeled the fact that not all wounded guys are gonna make it. Take the wounded guys off watch, stick 'em in an off duty watch that is sleeping and they degrade slowly or not at all and sometimes get better.

I think this wounding bug is a feature.

Get wounded and no matter what the medics do and you may die anyway.

[phloon]

OK...

I'm no dev apologist nor a freakin' fanboi. Check my SH4 messages and you'll see I'm not terribly happy with SH4 so far...

That SAID:

The Watch Crew Deaths - finally experienced it. Kinda. Maybe I'm overthinking this buy my experience says this happenstance percieved by so many as a bug is really a feature. People are perceiving it as a bug because they just aren't used to wounded guys maybe dying. Get wounded in real life and you're not close to good medical care and there's a real good chance you're gonna die. Medics on a sub could only do so much.

Here's what happened to me and I did some things I wouldn't normally have done based on this thread.

Took damage from DD gunfire. Dove. Noted health levels.

Then thought about the situation. When a guy gets wounded he may die anyway - the medics may not be able to stabilize him.

I had 5 guys turn pink with varying health levels from 67 to 99 that were assigned to bridge watch.

After diving 2 of them went from 77 to 70. The one guy at 99 stayed there. The guy at 67 dropped to 63 and then made a recover back up to 70.

To see if just being assigned to a bridge station wounded people I put a 100 health guy on the bridge after surfacing and repairing bridge damage (radio antenna). He stayed at 100.

What am I missing here.

Seems to me that the devs have modeled the fact that not all wounded guys are gonna make it. Take the wounded guys off watch, stick 'em in an off duty watch that is sleeping and they degrade slowly or not at all and sometimes get better.

I think this wounding bug is a feature.

Get wounded and no matter what the medics do and you may die anyway.

I wondered that in a previous thread on this topic. Then, after playing some more, ended up with freshly placed, 100% health crew, getting injured over time. I imagine you'll change your mind too if you encounter that.

[Werewolf13]

I was WRONG! The crew casualty on the bridge thing is a bug!

And when I'm wrong I admit it.

In fact after playing with the problem for a while and getting multiple crew killed, etc etc and no way out I finally gave it up. The problem is so bad SH4 is going on the shelf until this particular bug is swatted.

That said: The patrol I was on originated from Manila. Manila got captured by the Japanese on the way to my patrol area. I never made it to my patrol area to patrol it. Went to Brisbane thinking I could end the patrol there. Nope. Game forced me to goto Luzon to patrol it.

Another stupid, stupid problem. Pulling into port should provide an option to end the PATROL.

[modisch]

So further examination of the behavior.

Test Conditions:

Patrol in 1942
Sub: Gato
Upgrades: SD Radar, 4" 50caliber fore deck gun, 2x20mm rear AA.
Location: North of Wake, waiting for an air attack
Crew: Every slot filled
Time Compression: >32x only used up until the air attack, Max of 32x compression after air attack and damage.
General Quarters/Battle Stations: NEVER USED

Any other variables that I need to control for?


Results:
Air attack damaged all components of the Deck Watch compartment. Both periscopes were destroyed, everything else suffered what appeared to be less the 10% damage (estimate).

Deck Watch crew for ALL THREE shifts were injured. As were Deck Gun and AA Gun crew.

Response:
I moved ALL deckwatch crew into the boat and replaced them with uninjured crew. I left injured AA and deck gun crew where they were.

Results over time:
An endless cycle of sporadic "Radar Repaired" and "Radar damaged" messages. The radar repair messages did not always coincide with the SD Radar components being repaired. Radar damage messages ALWAYS coincided with ALL Deck Watch compoents being /slightly/ damaged, assuming they were repaired since the initial bombing. Radar damage messages also coincided with some or all (but not always all) crew being damaged. It appeared they were damaged 10 points when they were damaged, however I did not specifically record this. Over time, when they did not receive a damage "hit" they did heal 1 point per hour (I think it was an hour of time elapsed).

Crew moved inside the ship healed and were unharmed by the Deck Watch bug. Crew at the deck gun and AA positions appeared not to be damaged either. I need to verify this though.

This cycle repeated itself, with "Radar Repaired" and "Radar Damaged" hurting Deck Watch components at crew sporadically. Left long enough in this cycle, the Deck Watch crew will all die.

Again, at no point was the crew ordered to general quarters. At no point following the bombing did TC exceed 32x. At no point following the bombing did I receive another bombing pass by planes. 100% of the crew harm following the initial bombing coincided with "Radar Damaged" message. As a tip, if you're at the crew management screen when the Radar Damaged message goes off, if you have an exposed crewmember highlighted, you need to reselect him to see the damage to his health.

I'm going back in for more testing.

-m

[modisch]

Further testing from the same save file.

At 32X TC, "Radar Damaged" happened every 20 minutes like clockwork for the four cycles i observed.

"Radar repaired" happened twice before the next "Radar Damaged". The "Radar repaired" message did not coincide with actual repairs in the Deck Watch compartment. The first one usually happens VERY soon after the "Radar Damaged" message (almost instantly realtime, 0-3 minutes in game time with 32X tc... i'm not quick enough at stopping TC after the damaged message, i guess). The second message usually follows a couple of the Deck Watch components being repaired.

Deck Gun and AA Crews are NOT harmed.

Deck Watch damage "pulses" do not damage all Deck Watch crew and the crew damage will vary person to person.

Now with this information in hand, I'm digging into the files to see what I can find. I'm reviewing the "ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc" in the savegame folder, along with the UPCs that describe the sub.

-m

[Seal]

I´m also getting this annoying bug. I was hit by an aircraft round in the AA gun, barely damaging it. The crew members assigned to it were also affected (only loosing some life points) but now it is impossible to heal them :o They started with 99 and 97 and now are in the 70s. They are loosing their life points very slowly but without stop!

I send a repair team which sucessfully repaired the thing. However, no matter how many times I repair the AA gun, when I try to submerge I get the warnining again 'the AA is getting damage' the sub enters in a uncontrolled dive, engines stop, water enters and everyone ends sleeping with the fish :damn:

[-Pv-]

There is also a small bug related to this and game saves/restores.

I don't know the EXACT timing, but it seems that if you SAVE within 10 minutes or so of an IMPENDING crew shift change (which could happen anywhere between zero seconds and 10 minutes after the hour) and restore that save, a large amount of health gets subtracted from the ACTIVE crew. Any that are near death die. I'm now in the practice of making sure my saves are a few minutes AFTER any shift change that may occure in the next 15 minutes. This seems to prevent health from being subtracted on restore.

Also as noted above, clicking a crew member seems to help update the status of the crew so you're not getting a false indication.

When substituting your crew members, do NOT drag an active injured crew FORWARD in the duty cycle (from I to II, II to III, III to I, etc.) When the next cycle occurs the injured crew member will go back on duty after only 4 hours of rest. Drag injured crew backwards and in 8 hours if health very poor, drag him backwards again when he becomes active crew.

Also note the other non-compartment stations (AA gun, deck gun, repair crew) tire more slowly than crew assigned to compartments (assuming they're not activated.) Something to take advange of when resting your crew. It also takes them out of the duty cycle so they don't get activated by accident.

In SH3 you can usually find a medic after the 1st patrol. Placing injured crew with medic in same compartment speeded up recovery. Has anyone seen medic skills in port recruitment? One of the most valuable crew members to have. I haven't returned to base yet in any of my patrols.

I will also mention for those still wanting to play, it IS possible to play sharp enough to avoid injuring the crew to this extent. This was also the goal of real sub commanders.

I realize bug exist and not all of them will get fixed at once. How many patches before your favorite issue gets settled? No way to predict. It is possible to keep playing the game, however. You just can't play it archade (I'm invincible) mode.
-Pv-

[modisch]

Further examination... the earlier hypothesis that it has something to do with the "Conning Tower" (i.e., the towers you can replace as a reward).

Reviewing ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc in my savegame folder reveals the sub is broken up into 9 parts....

8 Compartments...

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
through

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
Corresponding with, in order:

Stern Torpedo
Engine Room
Control Room
Conning Tower (Sensor Room)
Bow Torpedo
Damage Control
Aft Deck Gun
Fore Deck Gun

Then you have the replaceable conning tower coming in as: "UnitPlayerSlot 1"

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UnitPartSlot 1]
ID=GatoConningSlot
NameDisplayable=Conning Tower Slot
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoConningTower
ExternalNodeName3D=Z01
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1=19000101,19420931,G atoConningEarlyWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault2=19421001,19430331,G atoConningMedWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault3=19430401,19441031,G atoConningLateWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault4=19441101,19991231,G atoConningElite
IDLinkUnitPartLoaded=GatoConningEarlyWar
The UnitPlayerSlot 1 has 2 compartments, 1 and 2... corresponding with "Deck Watch" and "AA Gun"

All of the damage I have is confined to crew and components in UnitPlayerSlot 1.

Now to ascertain (if possible) why.

-m

[modisch]

Ok, yet more research (hopefully this is helpful)...

The deck gun is spared from the bug (and it's a part of the basic sub compartments, not the swappable conning tower)... but AA isn't. But there's an interesting behavior you can see with the AA gun that might be true of the Deck Watch as well.

1. The damage control doesn't repair the AA gun (or deck gun) when the stations are unmanned. You can activate the DC team, but if the AA Gun or Deck Gun are not manned, no repairs will happen.

2. If you repair the AA gun, the next conning tower damage "pulse" will damage the AA Gun and the crewman.

3. The AA Crewman is damaged whether or not he is manning the gun.

4. As mentioned before, the Deck Gun is not damaged by pulses... this is consistent with the theory that it's the swappable conning tower that is bugged.

5. If there isn't an undamaged component in the conning tower, the damage pulse won't happen.

6. Crew members in a compartment are only harmed if there is a component in the compartment that is damaged. I.E., if the AA gun is damaged when the pulse happens, it isn't damaged more and the crewmember isn't hurt. If the AA gun is repaired when the pulse occurs, the AA Gun is damaged and the crewman is damaged.


so... that's the latest i've figured out. Now i'm off to play a less buggy game.

-m

[walsh2509]

I got damage to a couple of the torpedo tube, not through enemy attack as I dived well before the plane got near and I never heard any bombs. In fact it wasn't until I was at Pscope depth and had travelled for about 10mins that the damage call came.

Now you say that a station has to be manned to be repaired, does that mean all 3 watches or just the watch that is on at the time?


Also as I could not see anything work as for repairs I went into MW for a refit, AA gun and torp tubes repaired came the call from the crew. I had a look and sure enough the 2 torp tubes and the AA gun were no longer in the DC repair box and there icons were Green.

As soon as I got outside the zone where the Refit Dock option appears, I get the call from the crew that the same 3 items are damaged again. I went to PH -home port , to see if it worked there, but as at MW after I got the Refit, as soon as I moved out of the "Refit Dock Option Pop Up Zone" about 20km outside PH, I again get the shout that the torp tubes and AA gun are damaged again.

I think that if you are in for a Refit , be it PH or MW or where ever else you can get this option, the refit should fix any damage. You should not have to end your Patrol to get these things fixed in a Refit. As well as that a Refit should not only refill your fuel and Torps, but also refill your AA gun ammo.

[modisch]

I got damage to a couple of the torpedo tube, not through enemy attack as I dived well before the plane got near and I never heard any bombs. In fact it wasn't until I was at Pscope depth and had travelled for about 10mins that the damage call came.

Now you say that a station has to be manned to be repaired, does that mean all 3 watches or just the watch that is on at the time?


Also as I could not see anything work as for repairs I went into MW for a refit, AA gun and torp tubes repaired came the call from the crew. I had a look and sure enough the 2 torp tubes and the AA gun were no longer in the DC repair box and there icons were Green.

As soon as I got outside the zone where the Refit Dock option appears, I get the call from the crew that the same 3 items are damaged again. I went to PH -home port , to see if it worked there, but as at MW after I got the Refit, as soon as I moved out of the "Refit Dock Option Pop Up Zone" about 20km outside PH, I again get the shout that the torp tubes and AA gun are damaged again.

I think that if you are in for a Refit , be it PH or MW or where ever else you can get this option, the refit should fix any damage. You should not have to end your Patrol to get these things fixed in a Refit. As well as that a Refit should not only refill your fuel and Torps, but also refill your AA gun ammo.

The AA gun, from my experience, needs to be manned. Not just a crew in the slot, but actively manned (the compartment is darkened, like when one of the 3 shifts is on duty).

In terms of the repairs for the torpedos... I can only make wild guesses since i haven't specifically looked at the behavior. Could be some damage can't be repaired at see (which is what has been reported in other threads). Best as I can tell though, it sounds like you're having some funky behavior with damage control also.

Honestly, it looks like the whole thing is a basket case. I'm not sure how problems like this made it through QA testing.

The game is playable so long as you're good at not ever taking damage....

-m

[partyboy]

Of course our intention is to avoid taking any damage, but it can happen, and that's what's so great about this game eh? You don't want to take damage, but it can happen.. and the severity of the damage is variable. It's fun to take a few hits, repair, and live to fight another day. Continue on your patrol and sink some ships. But this bug strips all the fun out of that concept.

As I said, you can continue on by babysitting your crew for the rest of the patrol.. but having to do that is lame. SH4 introduced new crew management for a reason - most people hated having to manually deal with the crew all the time. And automated crew cycles with some minor management (moving to damage control, battle stations, etc) is very satisfying when it's working well. This bug is like a big black eye on the game.

[Joaoperru]

My 2 cents:

Imho when the red bar of a system is all red it's impossible to repair. Happened to me with torpedo tubes, periscopes etc. And i like it.

Anyway going back to our main subject:
There is no way of getting the radar and AA gun invulnerable just to skip our damned error? Not fully realistic, it'ok, but maybe it's the best choice at least for now.

[bakalakadaka]

OK,now this is serious.I was here when this thread was only a dissapointment of a few people that happened to have bugs.But look at this now.This has grown to a huge rebellion of great number of people.This can't go on like this.

Those who have the oppotunity please notify the devs of this HUGE bug.I hope that this bug is added to the 1.2 wishlist.Speaking of that when is the 1.2 coming out?

I also get the stupid''Radar damaged'',''Radar repaired'' messages and it also happened to me that refit does not help.

I am new to the SH series(meaning that SH4 is my first SH)and I have a question.Every time but EVERY TIME smt gets damaged,on the damage control screen the field is red almost to the end(about 3mm is not red)What does it mean?That it is fully damaged,not repairable or what?

[modisch]

Anyway going back to our main subject:
There is no way of getting the radar and AA gun invulnerable just to skip our damned error? Not fully realistic, it'ok, but maybe it's the best choice at least for now.
Ask and ye shall receive...

I just released an attempt to make the Conning Tower (represented by the Deck Watch and AA Gun compartments on the Damage Control or Crew Management screens) immune to damage. The crew can be harmed, but not the equipment, which keeps the bug from being triggered.

It's only got about 30 minutes of quickie testing, but it seems to work. More testers and feedback are welcome.

I hope this really does work and gives a lot of very frustrated players the chance to play.

Link to thread.... here! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=471410#post471410)

-m

[Seal]

Thank you Modisch!

I will try your fix, if it works it will be handy, at least until a new patch arrives.

I think this is one of the most serious bugs, and as already suggested it is related with other(s) bug(s) in the Damage Control.

I would like to be sure that this information is forward to the Dev Team, so they can include fixes in a new patch. I already posted some comments in other threads but don't know what is the most effective way to pass this information to the Dev Team.

So, I make an appeal to all the seniors members of this forum to also report it, you must know better that me how to do it, and some of you must be experiencing these bugs too.

Thank you all

[partyboy]

I'll check out your mod and let you know how it goes.

[Joaoperru]

I just released an attempt to make the Conning Tower (represented by the Deck Watch and AA Gun compartments on the Damage Control or Crew Management screens) immune to damage. The crew can be harmed, but not the equipment, which keeps the bug from being triggered.
-m

I think that would be pretty useful, modisch. But nothing to do with changing just the radar and AA? Can't we find a way to change singular pieces of equipment?

[modisch]

I just released an attempt to make the Conning Tower (represented by the Deck Watch and AA Gun compartments on the Damage Control or Crew Management screens) immune to damage. The crew can be harmed, but not the equipment, which keeps the bug from being triggered.
-m
I think that would be pretty useful, modisch. But nothing to do with changing just the radar and AA? Can't we find a way to change singular pieces of equipment?

Nope. The devs, for the sake of efficiency, kept many variables general to the compartment, including exposure to damage. The only characteristics that are specific to equipment is "what goes where", "what's it do?", "What's it look like?" and "how many hitpoints?". But all characteristics like damage exposure, crew performance, etc, are defined by compartment.

I didn't change the hitpoints since i don't think that will do anything.

The only way that I saw to prevent the bug from triggering is preventing initial (legitimate) damage completely. It's an imperfect workaround.... but if you think about it this way... in terms of damage, it's not the most important compartment anyways. The crew is still vulnerable to gun fire... and what sinks your sub is damage to the bulkheads and flooding. You can still lose your periscope (because only the heads are in the conning tower) and your radar and radio (because only the antennae are in the conning tower). The only real function that is completely spared from damage is your AA gun.

regards,

-m

[Joaoperru]

I can only say you did an excellent work then. I'll try this out this evening and testing myself.
In the meanwhile i would know if someone of you captains has some feedback about this little mod, which is little but could mean a lot :up:

[Grotius]

I'm getting this bug too. I've never gone to general quarters (mostly because I've spent my first mission trying to keep my crew alive), so it's nothing to do with battlestations. My deck was strafed by enemy planes, and it suffered damage. The damage seems to be irreparable. Worse, my periscope was destroyed entirely, and it's definitely irreparable. Anyway, since those calamities, whenever I station a crew member on the deck, he invariably gets sick. If I leave him in that slot too long, he dies.

I got so tired of it that eventually I just left all the deck slots empty, or manned them with corpses.

This is by far the most irritating bug I've encountered in SH4 so far.

[Ayari]

There SHOULD have been a 'clear the bridge' button to clear the watch off the bridge durring aircraft attacks, leaving only the AA gunners and maybe deck gunners if you're using them.

The watch has no reason to be standing there like fools while being straffed in the first place. Now there's this bug that piles on top...

Does anyone know if its only the bridge/watch crew, or is it ALL the men on deck (ie, flak and deck gun?)


I had it happen last night. It seemed that only one spot on the watch caused my crew to die ( the 3rd slot on the top row of the crew management screen : the rest were fine). I had a full damage control team and replaced the dead watch member with one of them. Needless to say I lost about 6 men before I figured out to just leave the dead watchmen where he was:nope: . And here I thought i was such a bad captn. that my crew just wanted to commit suicide:huh:

[donut]

They don't sleep enough off watch. Right after duty section change,rest of crew sleeps,but watch function does not. They can be induced to sleep.by swapping each one out with a sleeping crew member,in the just off watch section,sleeping.:hmm: