Submarine Specs

[yamla]

I couldn't find the specifications on the submarines in my manual or in the (different) pdf manual on the game DVD. So I assembled a list of specifications. I do not know how accurate these numbers are to the real submarines and I do not know how accurately Silent Hunter 4 models the subs anyway. Additionally, the underwater endurance and the range numbers are particularly suspect. I welcome corrections.

United States S class submarine (1920)
14.5 knots surfaced
11 knots submerged
unknown endurance submerged
200 ft test depth
4 forward torpedo tubes
12 torpedos
3420 - 5500 miles endurance

United States Porpoise class submarine (1935)
20 knots surfaced
8 knots submerged
unknown endurance submerged, very low endurance in game
250 ft test depth
4 forward torpedo tubes
2 aft torpedo tubes
16 torpedos
22,000 miles range

Salmon class submarine (1937)
21 knots surfaced
9 knots submerged
Unknown endurance
250 ft test depth
4 forward
4 aft
24 torpedos
11,000 miles range

Sargo class submarine (1939)
21 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
Unknown endurance
250 ft test depth
4 forward
4 aft
24 torpedos
11,000 miles range

Tambor class submarine (1940)
20 knots surfaced
9 knots submerged
48 hour endurance submerged
250 ft test depth
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
11,000 miles range


Gar class submarine (1941)
20 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hour endurance submerged
250 ft test depth
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
11,000 miles range

Gato class submarine (1941)
20.25 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hour endurance submerged
300 ft test depth
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
20,000 miles range

Balao class submarine (1943)
20.25 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hour endurance submerged
400 ft test depth, 600 ft emergency
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
20,000 miles range

[digipirate]

Sweet! This should be stickied imo...

[RickC Sniper]

The manual lists the maximum range of the Balao and Gato subs as 11,000 miles.

[nattydread]

My S-class only gets 12kts surfaced with all engines on propulsion(no charging). And I think 9kts submerged.

[greekfire]

I test every new sub on 1st patrol and determine these numbers. Then I know for sure where I stand when the battle starts heating up.

[Zajc3w]

I test every new sub on 1st patrol and determine these numbers. Then I know for sure where I stand when the battle starts heating up.

Gar calass range 11000 km(ahead 1/3, 10000km @ 2/3) not nM this makes some campaigns impossible:
Pearl to Tokyo is ~9000km refitting/resupplying didn't work so I've run out of fuel before any action. Only narval had sufficient range - 46000km @ ahead 2/3
also crushing depth for gar is 140 meters and 145 for narval

UPPSS archeologist woken up in me - sorry

[Akotalaya]

Gar calass range 11000 km(ahead 1/3, 10000km @ 2/3) not nM this makes some campaigns impossible:
Pearl to Tokyo is ~9000km refitting/resupplying didn't work so I've run out of fuel before any action. Only narval had sufficient range - 46000km @ ahead 2/3
also crushing depth for gar is 140 meters and 145 for narval

UPPSS archeologist woken up in me - sorry

ever thought of running at 9 kts on the way there? or refueling at midway? ive never had a problem with fuel and i have spent time with the little S class!

[TorpX]

Since there is some interest in this, I edited the values showing the real-life figures from SUBMARINES THROUGH 1945, by N. Friedman:

United States S-18 class submarine (1939 values)
13 knots surfaced
9 knots submerged
20 hr. @ 5 kt.
200 ft test depth
4 forward torpedo tubes
12 torpedos
3420 nm @ 6.5 kt. endurance

United States Porpoise class submarine (1935)
19 knots surfaced
8 knots submerged
10 hr. @ 5 kt., 36 hr. at min. speed
250 ft test depth
4 forward torpedo tubes
2 aft torpedo tubes
16 torpedos
6,000 miles @ 10 kt.

Salmon class submarine (1937)
21 knots surfaced
9 knots submerged
48 hr. @ 2 kt.
250 ft test depth
4 forward
4 aft
24 torpedos
11,000 miles @ 10 kt. range

Sargo class submarine (1939)
21 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hr. @ 2 kt.
250 ft test depth
4 forward
4 aft
24 torpedos
11,000 miles @ 10 kt. range

Tambor class submarine (1940)
20.4 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hour @ 2 kt. endurance submerged
250 ft test depth
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
11,000 miles @ 10 kt. range

Gato class submarine (1941)
21 knots surfaced
9 knots submerged
48 hour @ 2 kt. endurance submerged
300 ft test depth
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
11,000 miles @ 10 kt. range

Balao class submarine (1943)
20.25 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged
48 hour @ 2 kt. endurance submerged
400 ft test depth, 600 ft emergency
6 forward torpedo tubes
4 aft torpedo tubes
24 torpedos
11,000 miles @ 10 kt. range


The figures for surface range (endurance) are based on "normal tankage". He gives figures for using ballast tanks for fuel as well, but they seem dubious to me, so I just gave the normal figures.


You may have noticed that you do not get nearly the submerged endurance that you should, in the game. Much has been written about this. Suffice it to say, the game model is broken - badly!

[Akotalaya]

well i read that boats that were made even in the early 1900's before the s-boat could get a range of around 100 nm, even the worst could get up to around 60 nm! but the s-boat as cool as it is...25 nm...

[fastbikkel]

I test every new sub on 1st patrol and determine these numbers. Then I know for sure where I stand when the battle starts heating up.

:salute:

[TorpX]

well i read that boats that were made even in the early 1900's before the s-boat could get a range of around 100 nm, even the worst could get up to around 60 nm! but the s-boat as cool as it is...25 nm... The range means little without knowing the specified speed. I'm not sure where you get the 25 nm figure. 20 hr. @ 5 kt. is 100 nm. This is actually a very high level of submerged performance.

[It occurs to me you might be referring to actual game performance. In any case, battery capacity/charging is really messed up in the game. Fortunately, Ducimus thought of a fix for this. Otherwise, one must just accept a poor level of performance. Sad that the game was released with these sorts of bugs.]



Designers were forced to accept that they had to compromise submerged performance to achieve surface performance, or vice-versa. The S-class were designed for high underwater speed, and almost all successive classes in WWII were designed for surface performance.




***

I test every new sub on 1st patrol and determine these numbers. Then I know for sure where I stand when the battle starts heating up. I used to do that in SHCE. :yep:

[Akotalaya]

TorpX i run at ahead slow, ive even tried 1 kt..ive tried it all...but from what research ive done the s-boat should atleast have a range of 100nm underwater and sadly it doesent, and older boats they apparently had better performance than that..5 kts just drains the battery too fast, ive never had much luck with that boat under water

[ETR3(SS)]

The underwater performance of all the boats is hosed. The S Class is the worst as it was included at the last minute. Anything below 5 or 6 kts will actually use MORE battery power than running at a higher speed. Try running the S Class out of power and time how long it takes to recharge them to 100% at All Stop. Oh you might wanna try that somewhere safe, like in the middle of your home base or something.

[Akotalaya]

so then what speed would you recommend going to get the most out of my battery?

[TorpX]

TorpX i run at ahead slow, ive even tried 1 kt..ive tried it all...but from what research ive done the s-boat should atleast have a range of 100nm underwater and sadly it doesent, and older boats they apparently had better performance than that..5 kts just drains the battery too fast, ive never had much luck with that boat under water

Yes, I've had to struggle with the S-class battery issue. When I did submerged patrols, I would generally run at 1.5 kt., or thereabouts. That was the only way I could recharge the battery in one night.

Thankfully, those days are over. A major goal of ISP was to fix the horrendous battery issues.

Try using this mod loadout (with SH4 v1.5):

RFB_2.0 (Real Fleet Boat)
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575 (Run Silent Run Deep Campaign)
RSRDC_RFBV5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 1.1

[You can forget RSRDC if you want, but most people like it.]

This will get you much better battery performance. It won't be quite up to the specs I listed, but pretty close. Follow the directions in the mod, as regards recharging. Other classes of US subs are fixed, as well.

[Snarf]

I've noticed that ahead 2/3 seems to get the best performance for the trade off of speed vs. battery life.

[Fizwalker]

I've been running a Gar for my boat out of Pearl... and 1/3 allows me to stay submerged during daylight hours with about 40% of my battery remaining. I'm guessing that the 48 hour endurance is real world as opposed to game?

I started playing with the S-Boats out of Cavite.... They're rough.

Akotalaya, with the Gudgeon (A Gar class boat) I've found that she cannot go from Pearl to the home islands and back on one tank.... My first trip out, I tried handling her like I had been with my S-32 and, having kept an eye on my fuel state, I headed back at standard on the surface. At about the halfway point, I realized I wasn't going to make it unless I changed things... So, I reduced speed to 1/3 and adopted running submerged during the day and on the surface at night. I managed to limp into Midway, refuel and head back to Pearl at standard, on the surface. Since then, I refuel at Midway after a surface run, and then proceed to my patrol area at 1/3, with daylight hours submerged and night time surfaced. Even still you really have to keep a close eye on your fuel state. Once you hit the 50% mark you really have to think about heading back to the barn (probably sooner if you're farther out than Kyushu). Hope this helps!


Torpx, I'll have to pick up those mods... (currently only running the radio ones...if they can be considered mods!)

[Akotalaya]

Fizwalker dont run submerged unless you have to, because recharging batteries does burn more fuel, and as far as running 1/3, dont do that on the surface or you will only fo a few thousand miles at that speed, ive found that fleet boats normally get the best range at around 9 kts, on a full tank ive gotten up to 23,000 nm..allowing me to stay in enemy waters longer and come back with an empty torpedo load because im not having to head home for refuel, i will have to take the gar class out for a patrol or two and see what she can do! i love trying new things

[Akotalaya]

I've been running a Gar for my boat out of Pearl... and 1/3 allows me to stay submerged during daylight hours with about 40% of my battery remaining. I'm guessing that the 48 hour endurance is real world as opposed to game?

I started playing with the S-Boats out of Cavite.... They're rough.

Akotalaya, with the Gudgeon (A Gar class boat) I've found that she cannot go from Pearl to the home islands and back on one tank.... My first trip out, I tried handling her like I had been with my S-32 and, having kept an eye on my fuel state, I headed back at standard on the surface. At about the halfway point, I realized I wasn't going to make it unless I changed things... So, I reduced speed to 1/3 and adopted running submerged during the day and on the surface at night. I managed to limp into Midway, refuel and head back to Pearl at standard, on the surface. Since then, I refuel at Midway after a surface run, and then proceed to my patrol area at 1/3, with daylight hours submerged and night time surfaced. Even still you really have to keep a close eye on your fuel state. Once you hit the 50% mark you really have to think about heading back to the barn (probably sooner if you're farther out than Kyushu). Hope this helps!


Torpx, I'll have to pick up those mods... (currently only running the radio ones...if they can be considered mods!)


so far on full realism runnign at around 9 kts i have gotten the gar to reach a maximum range of 21,000 nm..she has been a decent boat to me so far, ill see what the performance under water is when i run into a ship!

[Fizwalker]

Fizwalker dont run submerged unless you have to, because recharging batteries does burn more fuel, and as far as running 1/3, dont do that on the surface or you will only fo a few thousand miles at that speed, ive found that fleet boats normally get the best range at around 9 kts, on a full tank ive gotten up to 23,000 nm..allowing me to stay in enemy waters longer and come back with an empty torpedo load because im not having to head home for refuel, i will have to take the gar class out for a patrol or two and see what she can do! i love trying new things

Thanks for the info! I'll have to try that out some time! To be honest... I've not really had a problem in hauling back unfired torps... (except once, where the interface, status reports I sent said I had four(4) and it showed 4 greyed out torps in tubes 1,2,3, and 5, but I was unable to use them...Figured they were faulty Mk 14s and carried on...).. In fact, I've been setting a pattern of coming back to port without shells or torps....Which begs the question of can I kill a ship with AA guns.... Something to try. (I don't think Gudgeon can pull it off tho-- It's guns have a nifty wall that prevents it from firing on targets on the water). *EDIT: I've come to realize that I think I left my crew on Silent Running, so they didn't reload them.

Almost forgot, is the extra fuel that the diesels use enough to offset the savings by using batteries for 12 hours? (Gar seems to charge the things in a few hours while on the surface....)

so far on full realism runnign at around 9 kts i have gotten the gar to reach a maximum range of 21,000 nm..she has been a decent boat to me so far, ill see what the performance under water is when i run into a ship!

She's treated me well, my Gudgeon. Now... If only her captain could shoot torpedoes worth a darn. :P

[Akotalaya]

fiz, it burns more diesel when you charge the batteries, because all the boats engines are is generators, those diesels just run the electric motors from what i have heard, but no, running on battery power isnt exactly worth it because when you really do need to dive the boat your battery reserve isnt full and that limits you, stay on the surface as much as possible

[TorpX]

The underwater performance of all the boats is hosed. The S Class is the worst as it was included at the last minute. Anything below 5 or 6 kts will actually use MORE battery power than running at a higher speed. Try running the S Class out of power and time how long it takes to recharge them to 100% at All Stop. Oh you might wanna try that somewhere safe, like in the middle of your home base or something.

I've been thinking about this a lot because I've never noticed this in my play or testing. Maybe it is different with other mods or stock.


To make sure, I tabulated a few tests with a S-boat and a Gato, using RFB 2.0 (patched):

S-18 class

50% battery @ 5 kt. _________ 20.4 nm.
50% battery @ 4 kt. _________ 27.0 nm.
50% battery @ 3 kt. _________ 33.4 nm.
50% battery @ 2.5 kt. ________ 40.0 nm.
50% battery @ 2 kt. _________ 32.9 nm.

I performed the tests in the order of 5, 4, 3, 2, and then suspecting there was a peak between 2 and 3, tried 2.5 kt.

The recharge took about 19 1/4 hrs., a ridiculous time that, practically speaking, prohibits heavy use of the battery in anything less than life and death circumstances.



Gato class

50% battery @ 5 kt. _________ 19.2 nm.
50% battery @ 4 kt. _________ 26.0 nm.
50% battery @ 3 kt. _________ 31.8 nm.
50% battery @ 2.5 kt.________ 38.9 nm.
50% battery @ 2 kt. _________ 32.6 nm.

Note that there is not really a significant difference here.

The recharge took only 3 3/4 hrs.

Also, the telegraph setting are not what determine fuel consumption; it is the speed. People can use different settings without changing the underlying physics. It's a matter of convenience, really.



The conventional wisdom is to stay on the surface, and avoid using the battery, as much as possible. However, there are a number of things to consider.

All the diesel-electric boats burn fuel at idle. I tested this and found that the fuel consumption to be alarmingly high. Submerging means you use fuel to recharge batteries, but at least you don't burn fuel in pointless idling. So the difference in fuel consumption isn't as great as it might seem.

The S-class is different though, and doesn't idle.

If you are going to conduct submerged patrols, you should not use excessive speed. I would consider anything above 3 kt. excessive. If you have trouble with batteries/recharging, drop it to 2 kt. The speed itself doesn't matter, as you are really just waiting for your next contact to come along. You want to reduce the drain as much as possible.

The fuel used to recharge is roughly proportional to the percentage of battery recharge. If you start with the batteries fully discharged, the rate of recharge is higher, but so is the rate of fuel consumption, so it evens out. I found the rate of fuel consumption in recharging was about 4 times the idle rate.

Another thing about the practice of sitting on the surface; one of the reasons this was done was that they could see farther being higher up. This isn't modeled in the game, though. We can see nothing farther than ~ 10 nm.



I put in a fix for the IDLE FUEL issue in my ISP mod, because I considered it to be important.

[Snarf]

....Which begs the question of can I kill a ship with AA guns....
With 40mm: merchies and DD's yes, capital ships, no
With 20mm: merchies no, DD's no, and capital ships not a chance, the exception being sampans and fishing boats

[Fizwalker]

fiz, it burns more diesel when you charge the batteries, because all the boats engines are is generators, those diesels just run the electric motors from what i have heard, but no, running on battery power isnt exactly worth it because when you really do need to dive the boat your battery reserve isnt full and that limits you, stay on the surface as much as possible

Good to know! Thanks for the info on that.

With 40mm: merchies and DD's yes, capital ships, no
With 20mm: merchies no, DD's no, and capital ships not a chance, the exception being sampans and fishing boats

Interesting. I guess my patrols won't be over until after I exhaust my AA gun ammo too now. :P

[moha14881]

Please confirm or correct! S-18 on the surface can just attain 13 kt and while submerged with 4 50 cal deck gun is barely capable of 9kt. Don't know yet about S-18 with 3 50 cal or the S-42! :down:
I'm currently driving Gar class. Would a stern 4 50 cal improve submerged speed??? Maybe from 8.75kt with bow position to 9:9.25kt. :salute::ping:

[moha14881]

With 40mm: merchies and DD's yes, capital ships, no
With 20mm: merchies no, DD's no, and capital ships not a chance, the exception being sampans and fishing boats

I wouldn't presume that even the deck gun is capable of piercing the capital ship's thick armor assuming its crew are helplessly watching. Torpedoes are definitely the ideal weapon for the encounter.

[merc4ulfate]

It has all been hashed and rehashed in the forum ifd you look around enough.

It is all semantics anyway because all of this changes depending on what mods you use. Some mod appropriate speeds and some do not. Some mods adjust the jack rabbit starts and stops and some do not.

The key is finding the mods that make it realistic.

If you want to read what the real skippers thought and did during WWII all you have to do is read the reports.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm

================

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[Z:\Silent Hunter\MODS]
RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics_1.1
EAXsoundsim_without_WebstersManeuver_STOCK_GFO_OM
Classe_Balao_CamoTri

[TorpX]

Please confirm or correct! S-18 on the surface can just attain 13 kt and while submerged with 4 50 cal deck gun is barely capable of 9kt. Don't know yet about S-18 with 3 50 cal or the S-42! :down:


How many subs do you know of that had submerged speeds better than 9 knots?

[ikalugin]

All of the nuclear ones (you did not specify time period hehe).

[merc4ulfate]

If you want more realistic speeds and turning radius from ships and your boat use Improved Ship Physics created by Torpx. He is working on version 2 at the moment.