Guides and Training

[Rockin Robbins]

My personal preference is to play with no external tools at all. No pausing the game and destroying my immersion to work any version of whiz wheel. No alt-tabbing to any angle on the bow calculator. I don't find that any of that is necessary at all and they ruin the flow of the game.

The real captains had to make decisions in real time and if we want to experience something valid that they experienced, time should not be stopped during the attack.

Sometimes these external tools actually increase complexity while giving you the same answer as determining enemy course and speed by plotting two radar positions 3 minutes apart. Then you can find angle on the bow with the protractor, clicking on the target track ahead of the target, clicking again on the target and a third time on the center of your sub. The angle shown is the AoB. Why leave the game to get it? You just can't get it any more accurately or as quickly any other way.

Yes, it would be nice if we had some more authentic tools in the game. But replacing them with external tools forces us into god mode where we have to stop time to use them.

That being said, if CapnScurvy's Angle on the Bow calculator were available in-game, I'd use it because my objection would be met and I no longer would have to alt-tab out or pause the game.

[I'm goin' down]

Double R, aka RR, should love this. Tracked and sunk an Otari Toramuzu with the OTC real scopes mod at night with no moon, map contacts disabled. Because the dd (or whatever it is) probably had radar, I did not use the TBT, which has illuminated Telemeter markings to get range at night. Plus, with Tokkyo's Revenge, if my sub were at TBT depth (around 30 feet), I am confident it would have been spotted. The OTC real scope's periscope's Telemeter marks are not illuminated, so it is usless at night. Thus the OTC mod could not be of help in planning this attack. What to do? Easy! Set up with an O'Kane shot per the Double R tutorials. (Did I ever understand that technique? We will find out, won't we?) The Otari Tormamuzu was steaming like a bat out of hell at 21 kts. Sheesh. It must have been going to a party or was late for a date! I set up with a 20 degree lead angle and fired as it crossed the wire at 20 degrees (Aob 70 degrees port). It looked like the torpedoes were off course, heading to the extreme port side (left side) of my boat. But wait. The dd, charging like a bull at Pamplona, steamed past 0 degrees, past 355 degrees, past 350 degrees, past 345 degrees, and there it was, sailing directly in front of four torpedoes wakes which were on a course closing on it fast. Two or three(?) hits at 340 degrees port side! I paused the game and grinned. She is going down! Break out the whiskey! Er... I meant the ice cream. Back to the game... so I can watch it sink.

[Rockin Robbins]

Holy Toledo, this guy is making whiskey ice cream!:har:

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Touche on your comment RR! Yes you can not have a god mode and stop time. Completely unrealistic. I put tons of hours in on SH3 GWX at perfecting my manual targeting skills. Observations, distance/speed conversions off observations, all that good stuff. I've got using my AOB calculator and making observations down to a science, mate. No alt-tab or pause needed. :) Once I have course and speed entered into the computer AOB is easy and fast to come up with. My course + target course + bearing. Timing target zigs comes into play sometimes so AOB is not too difficult there either. My method is to observe general course, and get an angle on bow reading after the first zig, wait for the second zig, then fire on the third zig. Doesn't take enough time to pause game or alt-tab. I've got a pretty effective system set up. It's working for me, and that's really the key, right? Every captain has their own method, and what works for them, works. :)

[CapnScurvy]

With the use of "tools" comes a learning curve. Like we used to say "this guys so green, he doesn't know which end of the shovel to pick up"!

For most players learning which side is Port, Starboard, what's Relative Bearing, what's Angle on Bow, are new terms that need digesting. The manipulation of a tool like a slide rule, Omnimeter, Is-Was, the AoB Calculator, the To-North protractor on the Navigation Map, all need time to understand and use. Once understood and practiced a seamless progression could be made with real time.

The point is, in real life there was a whole group of trained specialists that were a part of the "Firing Party". Each having their specific task to do and check, while the Approach Officer (usually the Captain) sighted the target. This manual, the "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm)" in Chapter 4, referrers to anywhere between 13 to 15 men involved in the firing solution process (depending on what detection system is being used). It stands to reason that the game does not lend itself to use manual targeting and simulate these different specialists duties within a real time environment. Sure, we can with Automatic Targeting, but who wants to follow the "green triangle" to tell us when to fire. There's more to this game than just that.

So a compromise must be struck between a simulation of real duties/activities and real time passage. There is no crime to "take time" in ones attempt to make a simulation of the various tasks involved. As you learn, the process will become less time consuming, more automatic.

Yes, having the firing technique of setting up close to a passing ships track and "leading" the target as if it's a duck flying past a blind, doesn't take a slide rule to figure the shot. If it was always that simple though, the "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual" could have been only 5 pages long! It's not, and for good reason. The purpose is to learn all aspects of preforming your tasks, in all different situations. Isn't that what we find ourselves doing? Each of us simulating what we believe is reality for the enjoyment of playing a game that can be played differently?

[Rockin Robbins]

And Scurvy has a point. They didn't pluck some bozo from the street and say "You're in command of a submarine! Good luck!" They had an extensive training period where they played war games. The most detailed discussion of this wargame training process is in the Run Silent Run Deep trilogy. Edward Beach (every submarine captain had his own firing party proceedure and some were quite diverse. Sometimes the captain figured he should be the one looking through the periscope, Morton and O'Kane figured the captain was a supervisor and the exec should be getting the periscope experience to move up to command of a submarine.) where was I?

Edward Beach explains how the war gaming procedure worked (really primitive and fascinating how they actually achieved enough realism to do the job!) and in that, they DID have the freedom to freeze time, talk over how they would run the procedures on the boat, learn to use all the tools, etc. Of course, with experience they evolved into a completely real-time process to have as much transfer as possible between dry land training and submarine application.

We should probably progress the same way, feeling free to stop time, puzzle out our procedures, work the tools, set the settings and then resume time again, when we are learning manual targeting. I think the whole thing could get really overwhelming otherwise, because even for an experienced player who knows what keys do what, is that starboard or port AoB, what do I do differently to set up a stern shot, what's that time/distance formula again, when all that is automatic, we STILL get pressed by time sometimes to the point that the prudent thing is to pull out and set up another attack. You have to develop the spider senses that tell you "the attack is blown" or "we're still good to go, shoot stupid!"

Please keep in mind that when I say my preference is to play in real time with no external tools, part of the reason is that it is appropriate for my level of experience. That advice would be foolish for a beginner unless he were learning the Dick O'Kane technique. Even then I bet he would want to pause the game and think about it a couple of times at first.

Part of what Silent Hunter teaches us is that there is a reason why there were so many misses in the war. Shoot or don't shoot wasn't a simple question of "are we still good" but also "if I don't shoot now will I get another chance before he kills me?" A shot not taken never hits. In combat, time is a harsh mistress. When lives are on the line, torpedoes get mighty cheap.:rock:

[Arlo]

My kingdom (or what passes for it) for audible commands and information I could speak into a mike while looking through the scope and a crew that mans the TDC and other stations inputting the information I give verbally.

Alas .... meh.

Still the best submarine sim evah. :shucks:

[I'm goin' down]

Arlo, If I started barking voice commands to raise the pericope, take her to periscope depth, etc., my three poodles would certify me as "nuts."

Speaking of pausing the game and having more than one person on the firing team, yesterday I forgot to slow down my boat's approach and overshot its ideal firing point by several hundred yards. By the time I realized it, the Bizo Maru, which I had tracked for an hour, was almost on top of me. I fired from a few hundred yards off of its starboard beam, and all shots failed to detonate -- too close to detonate. I was so close the gunners on the target fired at the torpedoes' wakes. If I had only paused the game to check out the details .... And my Tambor had no deck gun, so the target escaped unscathed. A rare miss at close range with the OTC/real scopes/map contacts disabled....Arrrggghhh!

[Rockin Robbins]

My kingdom (or what passes for it) for audible commands and information I could speak into a mike while looking through the scope and a crew that mans the TDC and other stations inputting the information I give verbally.

Alas .... meh.

Still the best submarine sim evah. :shucks:

I'll take a pass on your kingdom, but there is an add-on that works fine! Let me get back to you on that one after I find all the links and local files.

Okay, there are two, count 'em! two solutions. One is a program called Shoot! 1.6.4 Main page (http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/). Download page (http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/downloads.php). It comes with an SH3 configuration file that I used extensively. When my wife began looking at me as if I were possessed, I kind of quit using the program. I THINK I have a configuration file I made up for SH4 somewhere around here. This program works magnificently, translating your words into keyboard commands and passing them on to SH4.

The second is a mod made specifically for SH4 called either shSpeech or sh4Speech, by minsc_tdp, because the author discovered that his program was useful for far more than SH4. No kidding!!! Anyway, you can download this at http://knepfler.com/shSpeech, and you can read the original thread at http://www.subsim.com/radioroo/showthread.php?t=119430 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119430). I've used it too and it works wonderfully.

Both have configuration files that you can edit. Shoot! has a configuration editor program that I like. I've edited it in my favorite text editor (notebook ++) too.

It's about time somebody asked the question that brings these two great additions to Silent Hunter back in the public eye!

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Voice mods.... I like that! :D

[I'm goin' down]

"!#ck yo!, you SOB," he said, as the crew fired torpedoes, ordered to do so upon hearing utterance of the voice command.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Kapitanleutnant Rapp

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9008/img00295201110102202.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/img00295201110102202.jpg/)

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Off topic I know. Sorry guys

[Rockin Robbins]

He really should quit smoking. That could kill him, you know!:har::har::har:

[19Herr_Rapp86]

:har::har::har:

Smoking was the cause of a majority of the u-boat crews deaths in WWII!!!! LMAO

[Platapus]

And as a bonus, I found something else. You can put your target abeam and eyeball a relatively parallel course, right? You don't have to be accurate: 25 degrees off one way or another still yields pretty good results. Some idea of range is necessary too. But for what it's worth:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/abeamspeedmeasurement-1.jpg

OK, that means that you're on a parallel course with your target. Your courses are the same, but of course, your speeds are different. We'll just say he's a mile, 2000 yards, away. Taking a series of bearings, his bearing is decreasing, he's falling back of 2 degrees per minute and you're going 10 knots. So he's traveling two knots slower than you are! Peg that guy at 8 knots.

I could not tell from your post whether these were your words or someone else's words you were quoting.

I do not believe that would work. It is really designed for a stationary observation viewpoint where it is simple trig function to calculate the angle. Hence the warning about the statement disregarding the movement of the submarine.

This is because, if stationary, you are constructing a simple triangle with the submarine at one of the vertexes and the ship movement forming the two end points of the opposite side of the triangle. Knowing the relationship between the angle changing over the period of observation and the range, it is possible to calculate the speed. However at ranges over 2,000 yards one would either need to be able to measure the bearing to 0.01 precision or extend the period of observation for longer (10-15 minutes minimum). This can be demonstrated using Excel with the formula =DEGREES(atan(b/a)) where b= the target ship and a= range.

All this works great at long as the submarine is stationary. Once the submarine moves the simple triangle problem becomes a very complex quadrilateral problem.

I just don't think we would ever have enough information to be able to solve a single quadrilateral problem like this. I am trying to work out whether a series of contiguous quadrilaterals might be workable but so far it does not look good.

If, and this is a large if, I can steer my submarine on a parallel course with the target ship, the problem becomes a trapezoidal problem. But the only immediate payoff of that would be that I could calculate the target's AoB and, therefor, the target's course.

AoB = 180 - bearing to target (expressed as a number 0-180 not 0-359). Note, this only applies when the submarine is on a parallel course with the target.

If, I somehow know the target's speed, I can take two bearings over a measured interval and calculate the range...this is not a simple formula but a combination of separate geometry and trig calculations. I am trying to find them and baring that I will try to create it.

Surprisingly calculating the range using this method is pretty straightforward if you use plotting paper and scale drawings, but trying to find a series of equations is challenging.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually the post tells where the method comes from and the info is a screenshot. It's part of the official US Navy Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual of 1946 (http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm). And it is self-validating. Just reading it and understanding what it says reveals a proof of concept from within the method.

It's a simple concept of relative motion. You are constantly in motion. In fact, if you are at the equator, you are rotating with the earth at 1,000 mph, while simultaneously orbiting the Sun at about 100,000 mph. However, in our relative motion calculations with the submarine and target, we ignore both of those components and do not end up with a multiple variable solution.

This method simply stops the motion of your submarine and calculates the target speed relative to your stopped submarine. Let's say you calculate 2 knots, Yeah! But the sub is moving 10 knots. Fine. We know he's going 2 knots more than we are. 10 + 2 means our target is moving 12 knots.

If our method "stops" our submarine, we eliminate that variable. The result is that our resulting single variable solution is only calculating the target speed relative to ours. It's the simple method of eliminating a variable by expressing it in terms of another variable, then ending up with a single variable equation.

It works. Don't believe me, it's not my idea. Believe the US Navy!

[Solidsnake2234]

I need the Sonar manual targeting, yet all the downloads were erased from the website it's on. can anyone help me?

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm still looking for a sticky place to put all the video downloads. The written tutorials and mods are okay, but the videos were all dumped by Filefront when they became Gamefront. They're busily destroying their usefulness and that is somehow supposed to make them money. It's very complicated I'm sure and it resulted in this community losing a lot of valuable information.

I had planned for that to happen from the beginning and have all my material backed up locally. But, as I said, I'm still looking for a good and sticky place to put it all back on the web.

Any ideas?

EDIT: I am uploading the WernerSobe videos to 2shared right now. We'll see how long they live. When the files are uploaded I will update links. Sure wish these tutorials could live on Subsim where they would be valued and preserved.

[White Owl]

I'll toss out the kinda obvious suggestion for the tutorial videos: how about Youtube?

[Rockin Robbins]

Stooooooooooooopid me. Duh. That's a brilliant solution and I'll get right on it.

In the meantime the WernerSobe video links are now fixed in post #1 and point to 2shared for now. That will change as I get videos to You Tube.

Thanks for the necessary step of pointing me to the obvious! Yikes. Just when I had it all together I forgot where I put it! Somebody slug me.........

[White Owl]

It only seemed obvious to me because it seems I spend half my internet time these days uploading things to Youtube. :)

[19Herr_Rapp86]

I seem to have found a reliable solution for destroyers. (Though not recommended. My tactics seem to be more aggressive than a lot of the sub skippers I see on here. Besides, the speed and maneuverability of a destroyer make for a poor target and tend to waste fish.) So far, have successfully sank 14 destroyers using this method, and would be good to note that I have only encountered 14 destroyers on my patrols ;) I set my course to have a 0 degree bearing on my target. When he commences his attack run (points his bow straight at you, pings with active sonar, and starts zig-zagging), I completely clear the TDC, set first to fire at a 0 degree bearing, next 2 (in rapid succession), at 5 degree left and right bearings, and the next 2 at 8 degree right and left bearings. The destroyer can not as it seems, outmaneuver that particular spread of fish. It seems thus far as a good destroyer tactic. (Though please keep in mind that it requires 5 torpedoes, not counting the possibility of duds, run-deeps, etc, and that I personally recommend not attacking a destroyer unless the situation is absolutely perfect for you and you have not been detected. This method I will note is for use when you have been detected and the destroyer is making his attack run) (also to note, the best range for this particular spread is between (1200 and 900 yards)

[Rockin Robbins]

That would work. But expending five torpedoes for 1300 tons is mighty expensive tonnage. That's one I would only use if my life depended on it. Usually I put 'em on my stern and do the same zero degree solution in the TDC. I preset the TDC into send bearing/range mode.

I hit ahead emergency as the DD comes up on me, lock the target and hit the send bearing/range button. Then it's attack map time. As soon as he gets inside 450 yards, fire one and hit crash dive, keeping full throtte. make a turn when you're 100' down or so, straighten out the rudder when you're at least 45º off course, wait for "passing thermal layer" and hit the silent running button <ctrl-z>.

That way either I heard a boom and I got my DD or I missed and I'm safe. Either way I've only collected 1/4 of the guaranteed misses of the high probability shot and can try four more times if I have to. This is about a one-third chance of sinking the DD. The key is to continue in a straight line as you dive until after the torpedo hits or misses. Then make your avoidance turn. Too early and he will follow the turn resulting in a guaranteed miss.

[Rockin Robbins]

Videos are uploaded to You Tube and all links in post 1 are good to go!:D

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Hey bud, says your vids have been removed by youtube because they are too long

[19Herr_Rapp86]

They work on your personal youtube page though

[Rockin Robbins]

<grumble, grumble, grumble> I'll have to chase that rabbit later. Yikes. I tested them all and now You Tube's having a cow? Sheesh. I'll be back later tonight to try to sort it all out.:woot:

[Rockin Robbins]

Okay the only two videos that are gone are the two Dick O'Kane videos, normal and sonar only. They are gone from my You Tube Channel also. I'll have to see if I can edit them down or maybe put them on 2shared. I just don't know how long videos last on 2shared before they are deleted. Everything else works!

[White Owl]

Were the videos longer than 15 minutes? Youtube limits you to 15 minutes until you upload several videos. Nobody seems to know exactly how they figure when to change your limit, since it's different for everybody.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have to check the lengths. I'll bet they're over the limit (because that's what the message on You Tube said......). It's always something......:D

[scubamatt]

Coming back after several years gone, and I remember watching the Dick O'Kane Sonar Only attack video. It changed the entire game for me.

I was excited, and then depressed, to discover the link in this thread leads to YouTube's 'sorry we removed this video' comment. (scuttles YouTube)

If you get them up and running somewhere, I swear I'm gonna figure out a way to copy them to a DVD and burn myself a permanent SH4 reference disc. Those are fantastic tools for any sub driver.

[norppis]

Oh wow, as a new subsimmer these are veery helpful! :yeah:

[I'm goin' down]

all of the links are great. For attacks, if you want to start with the basics, I would look at the constant bearing technique, and move on the the Dick O'Kane method. When you get really good at those, move on to manual targeting using the Easy Aob mod, the OTC mod, or, if you have lots of time on your hands, the 3D TDC and Radar Range Mod. Mobo is the most incredible program in the forum. It will knock your socks off.

Just so you know, RSRDC is a mod that mirrors Japanese convoy and task force traffic in the war. So, for example, if you want to fight in the battle of Midway, the enemy fleet will be at that location in June '42. Same for Coral Sea, the Marianas Turkey Shoot, etc.

[fright52]

:damn: Is there any basic tutorial that shows how to use navigation tools for plotting course, finding bearings etc. Tired of zig-zagging and making "donuts" in the pacific. Ubisoft manual leaves a lot to be desired for beginners.
SH4 is fantastic! Just tired of dying and not knowing why. Help greatly appreciated.

[magic452]

Welcome to the boat mate. :salute:

It's pretty easy. Go to the navigation map, that's the second button in from the left on the top row. Double click this button. That opens the navigation map.

On the lower row of buttons the third on in from the left will say "Plot course". Just click this and a line will show on the map. One end of the line is anchored to your sub. The other end is at your mouse pointer. Just move the mouse to where you want to go and left click, that will place the end of the line where you click and the sub will follow that line, it's your course. You can click on the second point and start another line to a different place on the map and click there and a second line will be locked. You can set way points in your course to take you any place you need to go.

At any time you can click on any way point and drag it to a different place. You can also click on any way point and release the mouse button and draw a new course from that point and any way points after the one you clicked on will be erased.

If you turn off the plotted course using the compass you will head where the compass is clicked. If you click the E you will change course to the east. To return to your original course there is a button in the bottom row that says "Return to course" Click that and you will head to your next way point. If you have a way point set anywhere you will see a line from your sub and it will go to the next way point.

The three dials on the lower right are for speed, course and depth.
there are tabs under each and clicking the tabs will bring up different dials that will do the same things.

Read the sticky post at the top of the main page and there is a ton of information there.
try this one
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107783

And this one.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

Magic

[I'm goin' down]

The second link in Magic's post contains a link to Legion's Noob Tutorial. That is a good one for players starting out.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Great job here RR :yep::up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Thanks RDP. I just have to find a home for my longer videos. You Tube has me chopped off after 8 minutes and other homes have been too temporary. Still working on it!

[fright52]

Many thanks for your kind response and all of the info and links shared. I'll start hitting the books and doing my homework. It will be great to point my sub any where but straight down!

[Deephunter]

The SONAR ONLY (BY GOD) video has been removed :damn:....Is there an alternate link somewhere that will access it..??
EDIT:Sorry....Didn't read the previous posts...

[MattM1121]

Thanks RDP. I just have to find a home for my longer videos. You Tube has me chopped off after 8 minutes and other homes have been too temporary. Still working on it!

Before RL got in the way I managed to DL some of your videos. I was looking at them last night and thought I might be able to run them through an AVI compressor to get them down to a more manageable size. Unless or course you've already done that.

Does SubSim have a place to upload them? If so is there a size limit?

[Rockin Robbins]

I haven't asked or begged lately. The last time I did the answer was "no." It's really a shame. People who mod the game get space, as they should.

I mod the brain and there's no place for me at the inn.:cry: All these videos are at the mercy of people who couldn't care less about them. I do have local copies of all of them though, so they can't be totally lost even if they aren't accessible to those who need them.

[DrBeast]

Man, I SO have to re-read everything. Two years of being away is WAY too long for an old dog like me :O:

[Rockin Robbins]

Welcome back Dr Beast!:D

[ReallyDedPoet]

Ditto, welcome back :up:

[DrBeast]

Thanks, you guys. It's good to be back, I've really missed this place! And it's good to see familiar faces :DL

[Rockin Robbins]

Yeah, some of us old codgers are just too ornery to die.:D

[Rockin Robbins]

Guess what? I just received a message in my You Tube Channel that I'm go for videos "Over 15 minutes." I posted one earlier of 18 minutes and change, so the Dick O'Kane Tutorial Video is being uploaded right now and will reclaim its spot on the Internet!

I'm stoked! Now I have to take inventory to see what others I was unable to load there and get 'em up. Links will be changed upon successful upload. Pay attention to post #1 in this thread for the new links. I'll conspicuously indicate when that happens.:D:D:D

[DrBeast]

Guess what? I just received a message in my You Tube Channel that I'm go for videos "Over 15 minutes." I posted one earlier of 18 minutes and change, so the Dick O'Kane Tutorial Video is being uploaded right now and will reclaim its spot on the Internet!

I'm stoked! Now I have to take inventory to see what others I was unable to load there and get 'em up. Links will be changed upon successful upload. Pay attention to post #1 in this thread for the new links. I'll conspicuously indicate when that happens.:D:D:D

We need a Like button! :up:
(And I think I've been spending WAY too much time on Farcebook...)