Command structure and Crew roles on WWII US Sub?

[Skweetis]

I have searched everywhere for information on this, and can't seem to find out. My idle curiosity has gotten the better of me, and now I can't let it go until I'm satisfied.

I have a feeling that some of you here know, or at least can point me in the right direction to research this.

Basically, what was the command structure, and their related responsibilities on a US Sub in WWII

-Captain is pretty easy, hes the guy who gets to peek in the periscope. ;)
- it seems the next senior officer onboard would be the XO, but what short of also maybe getting to peek in the periscope from time to time;)
- I would guess that the senior NCO would be the COB, and keep the riff-raff in line ( or is that the Bosun's job? )
- I would assume there is also a Chief Engineer...

So what did the other 3 officers do? what were they responsible for? what about every one else, like the other umpteen NCO's? It's obvious to me that the regular seamen are the muscle that moves the boat....

It seems I've spent to much time in the Atlantic theatre, and now I have no idea how the US guys did things.:-?

Any input and information is appreciated. :up:

Cheers,
Jim

[Krupp]

http://www.subvetpaul.com/Diedwwii.htm


USN RATES and RANKS
DESCRIPTIONS IN USE DURING WWI IN THE SUBMARINE SERVICE

Rating Abbreviation



Officer Ranks



Ensign ENS
Lieutenant (Junior Grade) LT(jg)
Lieutenant LT
Lieutenant Commander LCDR
Commander (Commodore) CDR
Rear Admiral RADM
Vice Admiral VADM
Admiral ADM



Enlisted Mens' Ratings

Rating Abbreviation Duties

Baker Bkr
Operate ovens. Do any kind of baking.

Boatswain's Mate BM
Work with canvas and hoisting with block and tackle. Handle rope, wire, and anchor chain. Handle power and sail boats. Steer ship and chart courses. Direct salvage.

Commissary Steward CS
Supervise ship's galley.

Cook Ck
Take charge of galley.

Coxswain COX
Work with canvas and handle boats. Know signaling.

Electrician's Mate EM
Use electrical tools and repair electrical equipment. Charge storage batteries. Wind armatures. Stand watch on main gyrocompass and in main control room of electrically driven ships. Repair telephone circuits. Apply first aid in case of electrical shock.

Fire Controlman FC
Stow, inspect and repair fire control instruments. Take charge of fire control equipment. Know electricity - A.C. and D.C. Man fire control stations.

Fire Controlman S FCS
Submarine fire controlman.

Fireman F
Operate, adjust and repair pumps.

Gunner's Mate GM
Take charge of gun and crew. Assemble and fire all types of guns. Handle ammunition. Handle mines and depth charges.

Machinist MACH or Machinist's Mate MM

Operate main and auxiliary engines. Adjust, repair, and overhaul engines. Be familiar with ship's drainage systems, distilling plants, evaporators and pumps.

Mess Attendant MATT

Motor Machinist's Mate MoMM
Operate machine tools. Operate and maintain internal combustion engines and engine auxiliaries. Knowledge of pressure and air systems. Be familiar with electrical apparatus.

Officer's Cook OC

Pharmacist's Mate PhM
Take charge of sick bay. Do minor surgery and administer simple medicines.

Quartermaster QM
Steer ship and take soundings. Use range finder. Plot bearings. Know signal control and navigation. Send and receive International Code by blinker, searchlight and semaphore.

Radarman RdM
Stand radar watch and operate radar equipment.

Radio Electrician RE

Radio Technician RT
Maintain radio equipment.

Radioman RM
Transmit and receive radio messages. Encipher and decipher messages.

Seaman S
Know naval drill duties, knots, steering and signaling. Stand watch and gunnery duties.

Ship's Cook SC
Supervise and prepare cooking.

Signalman SM
Stand signal watch on bridge. Identify flags. Use blinker, searchlight and semaphore. Use range finder, searchlights, signal apparatus.

Steward St
Take charge of mess arrangements.
Steward's Mate StM Serve at table in officers' mess.

Storekeeper SK
Take charge of ship's storeroom. Issue and account for stock and clothing.

Torpedoman's Mate TM
Lubricate, assemble, charge and fire torpedoes. Lay mines and drop depth charges.

Warrant Officer WO

Yeoman
Take charge of ship's office. Take dictation, write Navy letters. Prepare reports and keep personnel records.


And some details for "Battle Stations Torpedo"

Includes:
1.) The Fire Control Party
2.)The ship handling and maneuvering party
3.)The torpedo handling party


1.)The Fire Control Party:
-Approach Officer: CO, periscope / bridge / conning tower
-Attack and Sonar Coordinator: XO, conning tower
-TDC Operator: officer, conning tower (position keeper)
-Assistant TDC Operator: officer, conning tower (angle solver)
-Navigational Plotter: officer, conning tower (DRT)
-Periscope Assistant: enlisted (Quartermaster)
-Sonar Plotter: officer, control room
-Sonar Plot Recorder: enlisted, control room
-Sonar Operators: enlisted, sonar stations
-ST Radar Operator: enlisted, conning tower (ST console)
-Firing Key Operator: enlisted (Fire Controlman), conning tower (firing panel)
-Gyro Angle Setters: enlisted, torpedo room(S)
-SS Radar Operator: enlisted, conning tower (SS console)



Then there's the ship handling + the torpedo handling parties, but I have no time for more atm...

[JackChen]

Very logical and good use of manpower.

Nice rundown of their functions. I guess, more understanding of the ship and its crew makes you a better Captain.

[Skweetis]

Thanks a bajillion, Krup!

[Skweetis]

HAHAHA!! THe one word i never included in my searches was "DUTIES", thanks again Krupp for including that word in your post!

Searched for "submarine crew duties" this time and came up with a whack of stuff. Found another good one if anyone else is curious as well...

Taken from www.bergall.org/mechinfo.html (http://www.bergall.org/mechinfo.html)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internal Submarine Organization

The submarine's crew is an organization of specialists. Brain rather than brawn is the selection criterion. There are many "sergeants" but few "privates"--non-rated men constitute less than 20% of the entire complement. Each officer and man must be a specialist in his own job, but he must know his shipmate's job as well. Before an officer or man can be designated as "qualified in submarines" he must pass a rigid written and oral examination on all machinery, piping and equipment throughout the boat. The electrician's mate must know how to fire the torpedo tubes, the torpedoman's mate how to charge the batteries. There are no spare parts in a submarine's crew--each member is a cog in the wheel, and each cog must do its job to perfection if the organization is to function smoothly, efficiently, and above all, safely.

From a numerical standpoint, motor machinist's mates, electrician's mates and torpedoman's mates predominate in the crew. These three groups approximate half of the enlisted personnel. Next come radiomen and operators of the submarine's electronic gear. Three quartermasters or signalmen, two ship's cooks, two steward's mates, one pharmacist's mate, one gunner's mate, one yeoman, and a number of firemen and seamen complete the complement. The senior chief petty officer on board, usually a chief torpedoman's mate, is designated the "Chief of the Boat."
The senior officer on board is, of course, the submarine's captain. ("Old Man" to the crew, he was, at the outbreak of World War II, a lieutenant commander whose age was probably 34 or 35.) He is followed in seniority by the executive officer who also serves as navigator. Aside from these two--captain and exec--seniority does not enter into the picture. The submarine captain assigns officers to the various ship's duties in accordance with their experience and capabilities. There are the chief engineer, torpedo and gunnery officer, communications officer and commissary officer. (When radar equipment was installed during Word War II there was sometimes a radar officer.) The officers may be, and frequently are, assigned more than one of the above duties.

In the pre-war days the complement of a fleet-type submarine consisted of five officers and 54 enlisted men. As newly developed fire control, radar, radio and sound equipment was added to the submarines, and as war experience dictated the need for more personnel, the complement grew. At war's end it approximated eight officers and 75 enlisted men.
For purposes of watch-standing, the submarine crew is divided into three sections. All hands, the captain excepted, stand watches "one in three" with four hours on duty and eight hours off. The work of the captain, in the words of the well-known sideshow pitch, "is goin' on all the time."[SIC] He must be constantly on the alert and always on call. Each section is organized to man all necessary stations for diving, surfacing, and surfaced or submerged cruising. With the exception of routine cleaning and minor repair jobs, little work is done on a submarine at sea, and sections off watch occupy their time with eating, reading, acey deucey, and sleeping.

Torpedo and gun attacks are, of course, all-hands evolutions. When contact with the enemy is made, the general alarm is sounded and everyone mans his battle station. The captain takes over the periscope and conducts the approach and attack. Breathing over his shoulder is the Exec who, as assistant approach officer, is the "official kibitzer."[SIC] It is his job to check the captain's observations and estimates, and to assist with the adroit mental gymnastics required for a submarine approach. In pre-war days the assistant approach officer was called the "yes man." The term fell into disrepute because of its unintended connotation with obsequious kowtowing. [WHEW!] There is no time for "yessing" in a submarine when the life of all on board may depend on "flooding negative." The only answer permitted in submersible operations is the right answer.
On board the submarine going into action, other officers serve as diving officer, torpedo data computer operator, and plotting officer. One officer is usually assigned to each torpedo room to supervise the readying of all tubes, or to take charge of torpedo reloads. The battle station duties of the crew keep the enlisted men busy. Some serve as members of the approach and fire control party, others as telephone talkers, timekeepers, or recorders. Torpedomen's mates, of course, man their torpedo rooms, and all men not otherwise specifically assigned proceed to these rooms to assist with reloads. When attack and inevitable counter-attack are concluded, the word is passed, "Secure from battle stations--first (or second, or third) section on watch." Normal routine is resumed.

The stranger on board a submarine on war patrol might have difficulty distinguishing between captain and seaman. Both eat the same food and wear the same garb -- shorts and leather sandals being standard costume for patrols in the tropics. And both might be found engrossed in a fast game of chess on the control room deck. Submarines and submarining do not provide space for the protocol of rank. Each member of the crew, from cook to captain, stands on his own two feet as an individual
The rates used early in the Bergall's career are as follows:

EM= Electrician Mate
EN= Engineman
ET= Electronic Technician FN= Fireman ( a striker for a below deck rate such as EN (ENFN)
CS= Commissary steward (Cook)
FN= Fireman ( a striker for a below deck rate such as EN (ENFN)
GM= Gunner's Mate
MoMM= Motor Machinist's Mate (called Auxiliaryman) This is JJ Ott to a "T"!
RM= Radioman
SC= Ship's Cook
SO= Sonarman
SN= Seaman (or a striker for a above deck rate such as TM (TMSN)
TM= Torpedoman
QM= Quartermaster
YN= Yeoman

[Krupp]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting :) If you (or anyone else) have any other related to the topic, pls let me know.


K

[Sailor Steve]

Captain is pretty easy, hes the guy who gets to peek in the periscope. ;)
- it seems the next senior officer onboard would be the XO, but what short of also maybe getting to peek in the periscope from time to time
The Executive Officer is second in command. His chief duties involve being the "go-to", the officer who is charge of running everything, including consulting with other officers and making up the watch bills.
I would guess that the senior NCO would be the COB, and keep the riff-raff in line ( or is that the Bosun's job? )
Yes, the Chief Of the Boat is the senior enlisted man, and usually a Chief Bosun's Mate (oddly the US navy doesn't use the actual title of Bosun, or Boatswain as originally spelled by the British).
I would assume there is also a Chief Engineer...
No. In the Royal Navy and the Kriegsmarine engineering staff are a separate group, outside the chain of command. In the US navy there are enlisted Engineer ratings, but the Engineering officer is just an assignment for one of the junior officers, like the Gunnery Officer, Communications Officer etc.

So what did the other 3 officers do? what were they responsible for? what about every one else, like the other umpteen NCO's? It's obvious to me that the regular seamen are the muscle that moves the boat....
They had separate assignments, and were commonly referred to as department heads. As they gained seniority they moved to higher departments until they finally obtained a command of their own.

Officer Ranks



Ensign ENS
Lieutenant (Junior Grade) LT(jg)
Lieutenant LT
Lieutenant Commander LCDR
Commander (Commodore) CDR
Rear Admiral RADM
Vice Admiral VADM
Admiral ADM
I hope you misquoted that, or that site is very wrong. First, Commodore and Commander are nothing alike. Well, actually first, Captain isn't on that list, and Captain comes right after (and above) Commander. A Commodore is an honorific, or temporary title. If a Captain is given command over a small task force, he is called the Commodore. Except for recently, when Commodore was for a while a real rank above Captain and below Rear Admiral.

[Snowman999]

The Executive Officer is second in command. His chief duties involve being the "go-to", the officer who is charge of running everything, including consulting with other officers and making up the watch bills.


I know you know this, but it's important to point out that there are two "hats" (at least) for every officer and crewman. They have a division/admin role and they have a watchstanding or battlestations role.

The XO is 2nd in command, does all the admin, etc., but he doesn't stand watches and his battlestation can vary. In some boats, like Wahoo, the XO was the Approach Officer. That's a role, not a fixed title by rank or position.

The XO normally just signs off on watch bills the COB draws up. It's a perq of being COB and the source of a lot of his leverage with the crew. A wise XO knows this.


Yes, the Chief Of the Boat is the senior enlisted man, and usually a Chief Bosun's Mate (oddly the US navy doesn't use the actual title of Bosun, or Boatswain as originally spelled by the British).


Modern subs don't carry the BM rate, and I don't think WWII boats did either. There's no running rigging, small boats, no painting at sea, etc. COBs can be of any rate, but normally were either TMs or enginemen. They had to have good deckplate leadership skills, be able to relate to knuckledraggers, and often leaned on physical size and muscles to do their jobs.

The USN uses the title of "Bosun" for Warrant Officers in the boatswain specialty. I had one as an NJROTC instructor in the early 1970s. He'd started as a BM striker off Okinawa in 1945. His can took two kamikazis, including one that went through the superstructure and wiped out the wardroom and all but three officers.


Ensign ENS
Lieutenant (Junior Grade) LT(jg)
Lieutenant LT
Lieutenant Commander LCDR
Commander (Commodore) CDR
Rear Admiral RADM
Vice Admiral VADM
Admiral ADM
I hope you misquoted that, or that site is very wrong.
[/QUOTE]

I loooked at it and it has a number of errors.

[Krupp]

Nah, just basic copy/paste from the link posted above.

Like in sh3, it is very important for me to (try to) understand all that this topic headline is preferring. For general interest, and for creating a dynamic immersion of a submarine and it's crew on a war patrol.

So, the question pretty much remains, right?

[Sailor Steve]

Snowman999, thanks for straightening that out. I never served on a sub. I assumed that it was different from the surface navy, but of course I had no idea exactly how. And now that I think about it, the COB might be drawn from any rating there too, as long as he's the senior chief on board. But I really don't remember.

[Snowman999]

Snowman999, thanks for straightening that out. I never served on a sub. I assumed that it was different from the surface navy, but of course I had no idea exactly how. And now that I think about it, the COB might be drawn from any rating there too, as long as he's the senior chief on board. But I really don't remember.

In surface, these days, I think the role is called Command Master Chief. In WWII I don't think skimmers had anything equivalent to a COB. They had MAAs for a police force, and in very large combatants departments had a department senior CPO, but I think it was more informal than a COB.

Bottom-line, in practice the COB is the third most senior man aboard. Some would say second. A weak COB is a disaster.

Looking over muster sheets for lost subs I also see MOMM as the engineering rate rather than Engineman as I posted (I think Enginemen might have worked on small engines.) I think an MOMM was a Motorman Machinist's Mate or similar title. Propulsion diesels rather than donkey engines, pump drivers, and small craft engines which would have been an Engineman's baliwick.

[FAdmiral]

It doesn't quite work the way described in the above posts with SH4.
If it did, your XO and COB would control the crew functions and put the
right people in the right jobs at the right times. You, as the Captain, must take over all that duty by yourself. Now it may be fun in this game but it is also time
consuming to check every detail about your crew....

JIM