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View Full Version : Pope attacks EU and "Berlin declaration"


Skybird
03-24-07, 06:23 PM
German (but probably also in English in international medias soon):
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,473711,00.html

Strange when an atheist like me must assist a theistic chieftain :D in defending a basic fact of Europe's historical identity, for pragmatical reasons, and reasons of accepting historic realities:

the pope criticised the socalled Berlin Declaration, like he also criticised the draft constitution, for not including a single reference to the Christian Churches' heritage concerning the history of Europe, and building of its identity and canon of values. He said that Europe is denying itself if it does not remember these roots of itself, and by that questions it's own identity. He asked, if the EU would be serious about wishing to reduce the distance to the ordinary people and correcting public bad image of the EU, how then could the very important element of Christianity, to which the vast majority of Europeans still confesses, get intentionally ignored?

the article also says that if Europe would be defined on the basis of Christian-Jewish heritage, it would be difficult if not impossible to get turkey included. So when this unwelcome hurdle to Turkey's membership could be avoided by ignoring one's own cultural identity and actively denying it, then this obviously is all to willingly being done by the EU. Tells all one need to know about the need to negotiate. according to european policy, turkey's membership already is decided. My only hope is that the Turks themsleves will stop to be interested (but then the EU will start to flatter them and give them presents to make them change their mind, i bet).

:dead:

One thing I know for sure. The Turks will never forget their Islamic identity, and they will hardly give up their revitalised, growing nationalistic sentiments as well.

Oh how much I love the EU. If Bin Laden would have bombed the EU ministries instead of the twin towers, I would say that we owe him one and should give him a medal. I was told that my "idol" Helmut Schmidt should have attacked the EU in some print magazine with unusual harsh and aggressive wording second-last week, and should have become even loud (for his standards), which is very very unusual for this man. Would like to read and give this interview, but so far I was unable to find it.

Merkel also wants to revitalise the draft constitution, ignoring democratic votes in two nations and ignoring that a majority of populations in Europe oppose it as well. I hope the German presidency passes by before she seriously can inflict that tremendous damage.

That damn thing has the size of a major city's telephone book. Probably your nation's constitutions is just a handful of pages, usually. The EU constitu-dingsbums is much thicker than all European nation's constitutions added together. :dead:

It already is too many members in the EU. To many cooks - well, you know the saying. the only good thing I can say abiut the Eu is that since world war 2 nations in Europe have stopped continuing diplomacy by other means. The only true and valid acchievement in the EU's history that stands beyond doubt. If one ignores the complicated issue of the Balkan wars, of course...).

Sure, "we are about reducing bureaucracy." - Joke of the decade.

Bertgang
03-26-07, 03:15 PM
My istinct is against Turkey in EU too, but I also see some possible strategical advantage coming with the new entry.

Something to think about, at least.

Skybird
03-26-07, 04:58 PM
My istinct is against Turkey in EU too, but I also see some possible strategical advantage coming with the new entry.
For example?
I only see this: one of the poorest countries in the EU with the by far lowest per-head-productivity having the biggest population in the EU - which gives the economically weakest member of the EU some of the most powerful voices in the EU - while driving an ideological and nationalistic agenda first of which is deeply hostile to Western culture and values, second of which has a completely different strategic focus than the EU. I also red many economcial analysts disgareeing with the official EU credo and saying instead that Turkey as a possible target market for selling EU-produced goods is incredibly hyped and vastly overestimated.

but the two main arguments for me are this: Turkey is not and never was part of Europe geographcially, culturally, religiously, speech- and race-wise; and it is Islamic. And Muhammad's Islam -the only islam that could be considered to be true Islam - is on the rise. erdogan is a fundamentalist, and he has a chance to also grab the office of the state president soon, which could lead to open comnfrotnation with the military, or the military giving ground and an intense boost for Islam in Turkey. Maybe one should hope he secures the presidency as well - becasue maybe that wouold open some European dumbhead's eyes. But I have my doubts. It will be reinterpreted instead until it fits into the illusion of tame Islam again.

Recommended reading: H. P. Raddatz: "Die türkische Gefahr". the title sounds sensational, but is anything but superficial. Raddatz, auhtor or several books and contributor to the standard work "Encyclopedia of Islam" is a very precise and well-educated debator, knowing Islam in depth. That's why he was so much a threat to Islam that a fatwha against him forced him to move to the US and live in hiding there.

But all this i just an implication of the draft constitution lacking any word on Europe's cultural identity and history - which is the theme of this thread.

Rockstar
03-26-07, 05:28 PM
Here's my two cents. Turkey will not be joining the E.U. and we can expect to see Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as president in April. Erdogan has in the past been jailed for his Islamic views. Of course he presently denies any Islamic connections however I think everyone will see him and turkey shift towards true Islam once he becomes president.