Anyone noticed that bees getting rare?

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,473166,00.html

There has been a growing ammount or reports in the german medias about the phenomenon of bees dissappearing. I live close to an institute where they are also busy with research on bees, it is a state-run agriculture research facility, and I am there several times a year and visit and observe their bee hive, I have some interest in these animals. I talked to the people working there, of course, and maybe - maybe - start to keep bees myself, of time I have more than enough. The numbers they are telling are scaring. In some regions in Europe, 90% of the former bee population have dissapeared. Bees make up for the lion share (some estimate up to 85%) of pollination in nature - other insects never could be able to compensate for that share, if bees should get out of that job. The effects of the missing pollination are already noticable in european agriculture, and declining harvests of certain types of fruits.

If eventually a worst case scenario takes place and bees really die out or get reduced beyond a certain critical level, mankind will be faced with a very very serious crisis threatening the survival of hundreds of millions.

And if it is because of the spreading of genetical manipulated plants, than we really have deserved it.

Those people and scientists in that institute are extremely worried. It's an old quote, but there is frightening much truth in it:
"If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man." Einstein

Ironical, that the food-related survival of the most dangerous predator on earth - depends on such a small animal like a honey-bee.

[SUBMAN1]

This is a very bad thing. Mass starvation is possible here.

-S

[TteFAboB]

Not mine. You wouldn't believe the amount of **** I eat everyday. I can live off it. I'd only need to adapt to other flavours of it. Bacteria's, insect's, vulture's. When these ran out of carcasses to digest, then my survival would be at stake.

Is it the Black Plague of our time? Will we have to open our doors to third-world imports? What if they start loosing their bees aswell?

[Skybird]

Situation in the US: worse than Germany:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/business/27bees.html?ex=1330232400&en=3aaa0148837b8977&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

A Cornell University (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/c/cornell_university/index.html?inline=nyt-org) study has estimated that honeybees annually pollinate more than $14 billion worth of seeds and crops in the United States, mostly fruits, vegetables and nuts. “Every third bite we consume in our diet is dependent on a honeybee to pollinate that food,” said Zac Browning, vice president of the American Beekeeping Federation.
The bee losses are ranging from 30 to 60 percent on the West Coast, with some beekeepers on the East Coast and in Texas reporting losses of more than 70 percent; beekeepers consider a loss of up to 20 percent in the offseason to be normal.

Even the Russians take note of it, calling it a "national tragedy":

http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/20-03-2007/88467-honey_bees-0

[STEED]

I will say this much wasps are getting bigger and more of them. As for the poor old bee I didn't see many last summer.

[Heibges]

It's like the plot of a Gunther Grass novel.

My father, god bless his soul, was a beekeeper and very interested in organic gardening, so I know this news would have greatly disturbed him.

[Skybird]

I will say this much wasps are getting bigger and more of them.

You mean one of these? :huh: These beasts are not measured in millimeteres, but several centimetres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4MAt7X9xE

[waste gate]

Twenty years ago everyone was fretting over the so called 'killer bees'.
Another disaster diverted.

[Heibges]

Twenty years ago everyone was fretting over the so called 'killer bees'.
Another disaster diverted.

Killer Bees...

and Fire Ants!

I remember hearing Leonard Nimoy talk about it on "In Search Of", one Saturday afternoon 25 years ago or so.

[STEED]

I will say this much wasps are getting bigger and more of them.

You mean one of these? :huh: These beasts are not measured in millimeteres, but several centimetres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4MAt7X9xE

Not as big as those armoured killing machines. I remember a documentary about those Hornets four of them massacred a whole bee hive. :huh:

[SUBMAN1]

Twenty years ago everyone was fretting over the so called 'killer bees'.
Another disaster diverted.

Killer bees apparently make some decent honey, so they are not all bad!

-S

[Skybird]

I will say this much wasps are getting bigger and more of them.

You mean one of these? :huh: These beasts are not measured in millimeteres, but several centimetres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4MAt7X9xE

Not as big as those armoured killing machines. I remember a documentary about those Hornets four of them massacred a whole bee hive. :huh:
Yes. It was me linking it, maybe two years ago.;) :D

[Letum]

The good thing about the bee problem is that because a healthy population of bees makes economical sense for people, the capitalist machine will ensure a healthy population is maintained (at least until they find a cheaper artificial bee).

If this was some kind of moth that was dieing out then there would be precious little money and motivation to save it.

[ASWnut101]

Hey, we aren't called Capitalists for nothing!


BTW, DOW jones industry stock went up over 170 points yestarday!:D :D

[tycho102]

The good thing about the bee problem is that because a healthy population of bees makes economical sense for people, the capitalist machine will ensure a healthy population is maintained (at least until they find a cheaper artificial bee).

There are two issues with that.

One is that the US is using some kind of pesticide which either damages a bee's UV sensors, or some other navigational aid, which makes it difficult for the bee to navigate back to the hive. It's a known problem and most of Europe has banned the specific pesticide because of this issue.

Second is the African bees and some other non-native species that have been introduced, which interfere with pollenating bees. This issue has been growing significantly just the past decade, same as fire ants.



The pesticide needs to be banned, and I don't know what we're going to do with the non-native species. Fire ants and these African bees will need a selective predator to control -- much less annhilate -- or we will need to genetically modify the two species to be "beneficial".

[Skybird]

The good thing about the bee problem is that because a healthy population of bees makes economical sense for people, the capitalist machine will ensure a healthy population is maintained (at least until they find a cheaper artificial bee).

There are two issues with that.

One is that the US is using some kind of pesticide which either damages a bee's UV sensors, or some other navigational aid, which makes it difficult for the bee to navigate back to the hive. It's a known problem and most of Europe has banned the specific pesticide because of this issue.

Second is the African bees and some other non-native species that have been introduced, which interfere with pollenating bees. This issue has been growing significantly just the past decade, same as fire ants.



The pesticide needs to be banned, and I don't know what we're going to do with the non-native species. Fire ants and these African bees will need a selective predator to control -- much less annhilate -- or we will need to genetically modify the two species to be "beneficial".

Oh please! It was just suggested that unwise genetical manipulation of plants maybe caused the bees dissappearing - and you say that should be countred by doing more genetical manipulation? Do we now transform nature by artificial means into something more natural, or what? I think genetical manipulation is handled irresponsibly thoughtless especially by the US. Although we had to learn time and again that understanding complex systems and learning about their appareantly useless details really is not one of the strengths of modern human minds.

Not to mention almost criminal business practices like that of Monsanto who often behave as if the laws in other countries are not valid for them, who came up with the idea of self-killing seeds that can only live for one season, and the seeds from the plants cannot be used the next year so that you must buy them again, and who sue farmers who did not plant gene-manipulated crops, because their neighbours did and during pollen count the wind has carried gen-crop onto their natural fields - for which Monsanto then demands to be payed, and demands to get payed an additional penalty fee, and especially in South America presses the farmers then to completely swtich to Monsanto crop and buy it, buy, buy, buy. Talking of one-sided dependency here. While at the same time in Germany, for example, scientific outposts of Monsanto time and again have released manipulated material into the natural environemt - time and again - always "by mistake", of course. One is wondering though why such incidents so perfectly cover the greatest possible areas and do not overlap while the regions get contaminated by manipulated seeds. the infestation "by mistake nevertheless" shows highly valid signs of systemical effort. at the same time the lobbies have succeeded in weakening consumer protection laws, and managed to get the minimum shares that need to be reached by manipulated ingredients in order to be printed on the package increased significantly. It's an effort to prevent the consumer to learn abiut what it is that he eats so that he cannot actively decide against gene-crop, for example. The EU also gave room to immense american pressure to lower the restrictions for US exports of such material onto the european market.

No, thanks. I live by the very storng impression that we do not have the moral ripeness and sense of responsebility to deal with such scientific possebilities in a careful and responsible way. Security, long-term studies and caution collides with capitalistic demands to acchieve the maximum financial profit in the shortest ammount of time. Meanwhile, first scieintific reports come in from institutions not related to the food-.industry that genetically manipulated food has been found to do creeping longterm damage to the immune system, and even kills test animals.

You can't just pick out one gene, and enter another one at another place. We do not know enough about it. Not yet. It is possible, but not certain that we will ever know what needs to be known. Until then, we should stop this madness being brought into the natural environment, and into the food chain. As the theory on bees dissapearing shows, genetically manipulated organism maybe have effects on biotops that we even cannot imagine. Too many variables interacting.

It is stupid to put faith into a business that acts illegally and as ruthless as these examples show.

[moose1am]

I noticed the lack of honey bees about 10 years ago in the USA. As a kid I could go out into the yard and see hundreds of honey bees buzzing around the dandelion flowers. I read or heard about the bees disappearing due to a mite of some type. That's when I started to look at the yard and could not find the honey bees anymore. Then last year I noticed a few more bees in my yard. I wonder if the amount of pesticides we spray on our yards to kill the weeds is also killing the bees? Maybe it's the bee mites coming back. Maybe it's a combination of pesticides lowering the bees immunity and the mites that are prevalent that's make the bee population plummet

But I have not heard anything about the killer bee population dropping. It continues to progress northward last I heard. Killer bees can take over a regular bee hive rapidly and pretty soon the entire hive is made up of only killer bees.


Twenty years ago everyone was fretting over the so called 'killer bees'.
Another disaster diverted.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I hate wasps. A wasp stung me on the neck whilst I slept when I was 6. Not impressed. I like bees, they're more "I wont hurt you if you dont hurt me" - mainly because if they sting you, they die. Ah well XD

[Wim Libaers]

Oh please! It was just suggested that unwise genetical manipulation of plants maybe caused the bees dissappearing - and you say that should be countred by doing more genetical manipulation? Do we now transform nature by artificial means into something more natural, or what? I think genetical manipulation is handled irresponsibly thoughtless especially by the US. Although we had to learn time and again that understanding complex systems and learning about their appareantly useless details really is not one of the strengths of modern human minds.

It was suggested, but not known, perhaps more information is required before excluding or mandating specific actions. Also, changed organisms are not new, but have been produced for a long time by specific breeding techniques. Genetic manipulation aims to do the same, but faster, more specific, and expands the set of changes that can be accomplished. Some of these are known to be harmful (sometimes intentionally, e.g. optimizing biological weapons), others aren't. Of course, there are reasons to be careful, because even with natural species we've been able to cause problems (rabbits and toads in Australia, the already mentioned killer bees and fire ants). But in some cases it really might be beneficial.

No, thanks. I live by the very storng impression that we do not have the moral ripeness and sense of responsebility to deal with such scientific possebilities in a careful and responsible way. Security, long-term studies and caution collides with capitalistic demands to acchieve the maximum financial profit in the shortest ammount of time. Meanwhile, first scieintific reports come in from institutions not related to the food-.industry that genetically manipulated food has been found to do creeping longterm damage to the immune system, and even kills test animals.

Well, letting lobbyists for a corporation that only cares about money and monopoly positions dictate the law has always been a bad idea, in any field. Regarding the harmfulness of the genetically manipulated organisms, I can certainly see why that might happen in some cases (e.g. plants created to produce their own pesticides or that resist very large pesticide doses allowing more to be used, which unfortunately is one of the industry's favourite topics), but it shouldn't be true in general. GM organisms are also used to create certain medications, for example. That's usually done in more controlled production environments where the organisms (usually single-celled) aren't given an opportunity to spread.

You can't just pick out one gene, and enter another one at another place. We do not know enough about it. Not yet. It is possible, but not certain that we will ever know what needs to be known. Until then, we should stop this madness being brought into the natural environment, and into the food chain. As the theory on bees dissapearing shows, genetically manipulated organism maybe have effects on biotops that we even cannot imagine. Too many variables interacting.

Even though there are some restrictions that limit where you can change genes, we actually can manipulate those pretty well. The harder part is figuring out all the effects it will have later. That's true for many activities though, Karl Benz probably didn't think much about climate change or dependence on muslim oil as a result of his invention, and the Curies may not have anticipated all civilian and military uses for radioactive materials. Dangerous GM organisms are perhaps a bit trickier because unlike, for example, plutonium released into the environment, they can often breed more of themselves.

[TteFAboB]

I hate wasps. A wasp stung me on the neck whilst I slept when I was 6. Not impressed. I like bees, they're more "I wont hurt you if you dont hurt me" - mainly because if they sting you, they die. Ah well XD

You wish!:huh: :roll:

I don't like wasps either, even though none has ever stung me. However, at about the same age, 6, 7, 8, whatever, I got stung by your live-and-let-live-because-otherwise-I-die-oh-so-nice-Bee on the left arm...

I can't deny that your neck-stinging wasp going for your arteries, your throat and your spinal nerve has displayed a far greater homicidal intent than my puny little bee who aimed for non-vital tissue. But they sting nonetheless. The kamikazee bastards, they don't even live indeed to see you screaming and crying. Which means they don't do it for sadistic pleasure like wasps who hang around to enjoy your tears. Bees do it out of hate, they want you dead and they're willing to kill themselves to achieve their goal. The only reason I'm still alive is because that was just one little bee, her buddies were too busy elsewhere mass-murdering other children.

They had it coming. They shouldn't have allowed me to live. They knew I'd take revenge. The dish is a little bit cold, but it tastes sweet like honey. Ahhhh. Die bees, die!
:down: :nope: :stare:

[I-25]

I hate wasps. A wasp stung me on the neck whilst I slept when I was 6. Not impressed. I like bees, they're more "I wont hurt you if you dont hurt me" - mainly because if they sting you, they die. Ah well XD

i got stung 4 times in the face by wasps a year ago:down: .....

[Rilder]

I hate wasps. A wasp stung me on the neck whilst I slept when I was 6. Not impressed. I like bees, they're more "I wont hurt you if you dont hurt me" - mainly because if they sting you, they die. Ah well XD

You wish!:huh: :roll:

I don't like wasps either, even though none has ever stung me. However, at about the same age, 6, 7, 8, whatever, I got stung by your live-and-let-live-because-otherwise-I-die-oh-so-nice-Bee on the left arm...

I can't deny that your neck-stinging wasp going for your arteries, your throat and your spinal nerve has displayed a far greater homicidal intent than my puny little bee who aimed for non-vital tissue. But they sting nonetheless. The kamikazee bastards, they don't even live indeed to see you screaming and crying. Which means they don't do it for sadistic pleasure like wasps who hang around to enjoy your tears. Bees do it out of hate, they want you dead and they're willing to kill themselves to achieve their goal. The only reason I'm still alive is because that was just one little bee, her buddies were too busy elsewhere mass-murdering other children.

They had it coming. They shouldn't have allowed me to live. They knew I'd take revenge. The dish is a little bit cold, but it tastes sweet like honey. Ahhhh. Die bees, die!
:down: :nope: :stare:

LOL! :rotfl: :rotfl:

I hate those bloody bees, haven't been stung but every time I see one I think its gonna go leeroy jenkins on my ass :stare:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

they want you dead and they're willing to kill themselves to achieve their goal. The only reason I'm still alive is because that was just one little bee, her buddies were too busy elsewhere mass-murdering other children.

Jihad bees?

Mujahibeen?

:rotfl:

[Rilder]

There obviously servents of Al-Qaeda.

[Letum]

Mujahibeen?

:rotfl:
:rotfl:
*dies of pun ovedose*

[UglyMowgli]

In france , we show a link between bees disapperaing and GAUCHO a product from Bayer use in treatment for crop, since this is forbideen in France bees population is growing except in the south where giants wasp from china kill all the bee, but hunters federations developp special ammo do destroy the nests in the trees.

[Skybird]

This theory was new to me today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

Reminds me of the theory of sound emissions from ship motors and sonar mayby irritating whales and dolphins and lead them towards beaches.

[U-533]

The Bees have started thier own domain in SUBSPACE... They are just useing this planet for fuel and when its depleted we will all die:damn: :damn: :damn:

[SUBMAN1]

This theory was new to me today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

Reminds me of the theory of sound emissions from ship motors and sonar mayby irritating whales and dolphins and lead them towards beaches.

Ouch! Maybe if you changed the frequency of the phones it would have a better effect?

-S

[robbo180265]

This theory was new to me today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

Reminds me of the theory of sound emissions from ship motors and sonar mayby irritating whales and dolphins and lead them towards beaches.

As soon as I saw this thread I was going to bring up the mobile phone theory, it's all over the papers over here.Trouble is nobody really knows too much about the effects of mobile phones(especially long-term)

We all use them much more than we did, I always phone my mates mobiles because I know that I'll get them.

Does make you wonder.

[TteFAboB]

Talk about biowarfare. Just need to go around and plant cell phones in bee hives.

[STEED]

From Private Eye

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/i_spy/1182.jpg

[waste gate]

Bees disappearing? Evolution may explain it. You lefties are all about that. Perhaps that is what you are seeing.

[Tchocky]

Could be, but I'm not a biologist. Seems a little speedy for evolution, though. And killing off pollen carriers hardly seems like a beneficial anamoly..

[U-533]

Bees disappearing? Evolution may explain it. You lefties are all about that. Perhaps that is what you are seeing.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :up: :up: :sunny: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Skybird]

I wish there were a vaccination against stupidity.

[Tchocky]

I wish there were a vaccination against stupidity.
It's a choice, Sky. Not a condition.

[Letum]

From Private Eye

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/i_spy/1182.jpg
I saw that in PE. Turns out the sign is quite near me!

*edit* I don't see much evidence for the phone theory.

*Edit#2*
Bees disappearing? Evolution may explain it. You lefties are all about that. Perhaps that is what you are seeing.

I stunned. You have hit a whole new level Wastegate!

[bookworm_020]

Australia ships bees to Europe and America on a regular basis. Many years ago, someone relased a strain of an italian Honey bee on Kangaroo Island. Some one relized tyhat this bee was a pure strain and made the Island a bee sancurary. This means that you can't take bee or bee products on the island.

The bees are also deasese free, and breed quite well. So the bees are sold world wide. Some Queens are worth over $5000 AUD overseas! So at least we have had one vivable export!!!:D

[Letum]

Australia ships bees to Europe and America on a regular basis. Many years ago, someone relased a strain of an italian Honey bee on Kangaroo Island. Some one relized tyhat this bee was a pure strain and made the Island a bee sancurary. This means that you can't take bee or bee products on the island.

The bees are also deasese free, and breed quite well. So the bees are sold world wide. Some Queens are worth over $5000 AUD overseas! So at least we have had one vivable export!!!:D

I remember watching a farmer release a bag of ladybirds ("ladybugs" in the USA) that had been bread in Europe for pest control. They arn't cheep either!

I noticed today that there is a bumble bee nest under some tiles outside my flat.
We seam to be coverd in bees of all types atm, so no big panic here prahaps.

[waste gate]

What's the matter fellas? Evolution only works when it suits your theories. Not when it dashes your narrow views on existance.

I laugh at you for your hypocracy.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Letum]

What's the matter fellas? Evolution only works when it suits your theories. Not when it dashes your narrow views on existance.

I laugh at you for your hypocracy.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Darn! you found "us" all out!
Looks like your right waste gate! Perhaps we all need a dose of your common sense to see things more clearly. I'm sure gonna take what you say a lot more seriously now.
My narrow views have been totally smashed and I now have a much better understanding of things. Cheers buddy!

*edit* Got a new sig in your honour. :D

[waste gate]

What's the matter fellas? Evolution only works when it suits your theories. Not when it dashes your narrow views on existance.

I laugh at you for your hypocracy.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Darn! you found "us" all out!
Looks like your right waste gate! Perhaps we all need a dose of your common sense to see things more clearly. I'm sure gonna take what you say a lot more seriously now.
My narrow views have been totally smashed and I now have a much better understanding of things. Cheers buddy!

*edit* Got a new sig in your honour. :D

Thanks my man. I appreciate the honor. :up:

[August]

I've been around radio transmitters and other communications gear all my adult life and I know what radio waves can do. I am not suprised that EM fields might be what is causing this. The increase in radio and microwave transmissions in the last 30 years has been enormous and nobody can say for sure what long term effect this might cause. We do know that too much of it is deadly so at what point does it become harmful in the long term? We don't know.

Another ingredient in the mix I believe is the progressive weakening of the earths magnetic pole over the past few years. Coupled with the vast increase of man made EM fields in the same time period can easily imagine that it would wreak havoc with any critter that relies on magnetic fields to navigate.

[Letum]

I've been around radio transmitters and other communications gear all my adult life and I know what radio waves can do. I am not suprised that EM fields might be what is causing this. The increase in radio and microwave transmissions in the last 30 years has been enormous and nobody can say for sure what long term effect this might cause. We do know that too much of it is deadly so at what point does it become harmful in the long term? We don't know.

Another ingredient in the mix I believe is the progressive weakening of the earths magnetic pole over the past few years. Coupled with the vast increase of man made EM fields in the same time period can easily imagine that it would wreak havoc with any critter that relies on magnetic fields to navigate.I thought communication gear is only harmful if there is enough short frequency EM waves to cause heating of brain tissue (or DNA damage with very, very short wavelengths) ?
Are there other effects from low level, long wave exposure?

I wouldn't worry about the earths magnetic field. The geological records show that the current weakening is nothing too special compared to other waxes and wanes. It's interesting, however to not that the earth's poles are a little over due for their periodical flip, which would cause total chaps!
I very much doubt bees travel far enough to find the poles helpful for navigation. It's far from a uniform magnetic field.

[moose1am]

Honey Bees use the sun for navigation. They don't fly at night due to this fact.

It's most likely due to the fact that many more people spray pesticides on their lawns to control weeds and insects. This is detrimental to the bees. And since bees feed on the flowers they take up the pesticides and take them back to the hive to feed to the young. This way the entire colony can be devestated.

And large farms are also being sprayed with pesticides. Pesticides are everywhere. We can find residue of pesticides in polar bear fat.:know:

I've been around radio transmitters and other communications gear all my adult life and I know what radio waves can do. I am not suprised that EM fields might be what is causing this. The increase in radio and microwave transmissions in the last 30 years has been enormous and nobody can say for sure what long term effect this might cause. We do know that too much of it is deadly so at what point does it become harmful in the long term? We don't know.

Another ingredient in the mix I believe is the progressive weakening of the earths magnetic pole over the past few years. Coupled with the vast increase of man made EM fields in the same time period can easily imagine that it would wreak havoc with any critter that relies on magnetic fields to navigate.I thought communication gear is only harmful if there is enough short frequency EM waves to cause heating of brain tissue (or DNA damage with very, very short wavelengths) ?
Are there other effects from low level, long wave exposure?

I wouldn't worry about the earths magnetic field. The geological records show that the current weakening is nothing too special compared to other waxes and wanes. It's interesting, however to not that the earth's poles are a little over due for their periodical flip, which would cause total chaps!
I very much doubt bees travel far enough to find the poles helpful for navigation. It's far from a uniform magnetic field.

[Letum]

Honey Bees use the sun for navigation. They don't fly at night due to this fact.

It's most likely due to the fact that many more people spray pesticides on their lawns to control weeds and insects. This is detrimental to the bees. And since bees feed on the flowers they take up the pesticides and take them back to the hive to feed to the young. This way the entire colony can be devestated.

And large farms are also being sprayed with pesticides. Pesticides are everywhere. We can find residue of pesticides in polar bear fat.:know:

That makes more sense!

Bees love oil seed rape and oil seed rape farmers love pesticides!

[waste gate]

Maybe some other pollen gathering species has been more successful and bees are dying out to a new and superior species. Evolution.

[Letum]

Maybe some other pollen gathering species has been more successful and bees are dying out to a new and superior species. Evolution.

mm, that's what happened to the grey squirrel in the UK after the American grey was introduced.
I don't know of any new bee-competitors in the UK tho. :hmm:


Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:

[waste gate]

Maybe some other pollen gathering species has been more successful and bees are dying out to a new and superior species. Evolution.

mm, that's what happened to the grey squirrel in the UK after the American grey was introduced.
I don't know of any new bee-competitors in the UK tho. :hmm:


Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:

I don't know what species would compete with bees either. I'm not a biologist, insectologist or any other kind of ologist for that matter.

What do bees do other than produce honey (honey bees) and act as a reproductive agent?

[Letum]

Maybe some other pollen gathering species has been more successful and bees are dying out to a new and superior species. Evolution.
mm, that's what happened to the grey squirrel in the UK after the American grey was introduced.
I don't know of any new bee-competitors in the UK tho. :hmm:


Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:
I don't know what species would compete with bees either. I'm not a biologist, insectologist or any other kind of ologist for that matter.

What do bees do other than produce honey (honey bees) and act as a reproductive agent?

Buzz? ;)

[waste gate]

I'm glad to see that you take this thread as seriously as I do Letum.:up:

[Platapus]

If the current bee situtation continues I imagine that it will cause a conflict between the Hives and the Hive-nots.

(actually this is a serious situtation. Bees are an important part of many eco systems)

:(

[fatty]

If the current bee situtation continues I imagine that it will cause a conflict between the Hives and the Hive-nots.

(actually this is a serious situtation. Bees are an important part of many eco systems)

:(

Me, I'm just surprised that this thread is still buzzing with activity.

[August]

I thought communication gear is only harmful if there is enough short frequency EM waves to cause heating of brain tissue (or DNA damage with very, very short wavelengths) ?
Are there other effects from low level, long wave exposure?

There have been a few studies done on their long term effect, everthing from brain lesions to effects on the brains neural pathways, but nothing conclusive. But then again we didn't know about the stuff you mention for a long time after we started using the technology either, and that's just our species. We don't rely on magnetic fields to get around anymore. However we understand even less about it's effect on other animals, especially insects.

I wouldn't worry about the earths magnetic field. The geological records show that the current weakening is nothing too special compared to other waxes and wanes. It's interesting, however to not that the earth's poles are a little over due for their periodical flip, which would cause total chaps!
I very much doubt bees travel far enough to find the poles helpful for navigation. It's far from a uniform magnetic field.

What I was thinking is that if bees do indeed rely on magentic fields for navigation then even stationary EM fields like say nearby radio and TV station beacons become potentially useable fixed points of reference to back up and perhaps even substituting for the earths magnetic field to show them the way back to the hive.

It's not the pole reversal thats important. That'll no doubt have some negative effect but it would probably be slow enough for most creatures to adapt with little disruption. The fastest field change they've found by studying magma from the last pole switch according to a documentary I watched awhile back was 90 degrees over a weeks time. That would I'd think still be good enough for the short trips that bees make to and from their himes.

Rather its the increased magnetic pole wane we've been experiencing when coupled with the massive increase in mobile technology (and i'm not talking just cellphones either) what concerns me.

Just imagine if the scenery around you constantly changed, You see roads and buildings and mountains (magnetic fields to a bee in this analogy) constantly changing shape and dissapearing and appearing in different places. Could you find your way back home from work every day?

Well maybe you could if you had at least had one fixed point of reference to go by but what if eventually you couldn't pick it out from the static even some of the time? There ain't no holiday inns in bee land. They either make it back to the hive while the image they have of the magnetic fields around them is valid or they are dead by morning from exhaustion and exposure.

I'd be really interested in seeing a study on what the cellphone and other mobile electronic usage, including both the stuff we carry on our person and in our vehicles, is in the areas where bee hives suffer this syndrome as compared to the ones that don't. I'll bet we might find a correlation with increased incidents and their proximity to populated or well travelled areas like cities, roads and highways.

After all everyone carries cell phones these days and if my students are any indication they use them incessantly when they're not using their ipod, of blasting their car stereos and sometimes even when they are. I would think that also applies to bee keepers assistants, farm workers and anyone else who get near the hives as well.

[August]

What do bees do other than produce honey (honey bees) and act as a reproductive agent?
Reproductive agent? Say it plainly. They pollinate food crops. No pollination, no crops, no crops no food to eat, no food and people starve. That is reality and maybe this is a joke to you but I'll bet you won't be laughing when that loaf of wonder bread costs you $50 bucks or that jug of orange juice costs $100 assuming if there's even enough to go around.

There is no replacement critter just evolved and we do not presently have the technology to do the job that honey bees do for us and still produce even a majority of the food we do now. Whatever the causes of this syndrome are we'd better figure it out PDQ or we're going to be in real trouble.

[joea]

Bees disappearing? Evolution may explain it. You lefties are all about that. Perhaps that is what you are seeing.

Lefties are not the only ones who believe in evolution. :roll:

[joea]

Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:

Actually they do. :hmm:

[The Avon Lady]

Bees disappearing? Evolution may explain it. You lefties are all about that. Perhaps that is what you are seeing.
Lefties are not the only ones who believe in evolution. :roll:
Maybe he meant that people with 2 left hands believe in evolution. :D

[Letum]

Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:
Actually they do. :hmm:

Nope!
They get pollen brushed on to them and move it around from flower to flower, but from the bees point of view this is just coincidental. They are not trying to gather pollen, just nectar.

[The Avon Lady]

Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:
Actually they do. :hmm:

Nope!
They get pollen brushed on to them and move it around from flower to flower, but from the bees point of view this is just coincidental. They are not trying to gather pollen, just nectar.
Live and learn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bees#Pollination). :know:

Anyone get the latest April issue of National Geographic and read about the depletion of fish in waters worldwide? :cry:

[joea]

Btw, bees don't gather pollen. :know:
Actually they do. :hmm:
Nope!
They get pollen brushed on to them and move it around from flower to flower, but from the bees point of view this is just coincidental. They are not trying to gather pollen, just nectar. Live and learn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bees#Pollination). :know:

Anyone get the latest April issue of National Geographic and read about the depletion of fish in waters worldwide? :cry:

From the link:

Bees are adapted for feeding on nectar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nectar_%28plant%29) and pollen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollen), the former primarily as an energy source, and the latter primarily for protein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein) and other nutrients. Most pollen is used as food for larvae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva).
Yup, Letum I've seen and tried bee pollen in the health food shops. They gather AND spread pollen.

[Letum]

Oh yer! :huh:
Thats news to me! :D

[STEED]

Anyone get the latest April issue of National Geographic and read about the depletion of fish in waters worldwide? :cry:

No, but I saw the film Soylent Green. :eek:

[joea]

Oh yer! :huh:
Thats news to me! :D

It's not bad added to cereal in fact. :) Supposed to help with hayfever too.

[Letum]

Oh yer! :huh:
Thats news to me! :D
It's not bad added to cereal in fact. :) Supposed to help with hayfever too.

In Germany you can get pollen injections that cure hayfeaver.
The practice was banned in the UK after a seris of deaths.

[bookworm_020]

Who thought a topic on bee's would stir so much comment!:huh:

[U-533]

Who thought a topic on bee's would stir so much comment!:huh:

Dude we are gonna be in big doo doo when the bees are gone...

I say we find out how to stop them from depleting this world of it's resources.

Heres my first suggestion: Find out how they are getting into SUBSPACE... then stop that action.

Anymore suggestions?

The floor is open.:up:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Thank God for bees. They make my garden worth the effort. That and they are free labor.

[TteFAboB]

Oh yer! :huh:
Thats news to me! :D
It's not bad added to cereal in fact. :) Supposed to help with hayfever too.

In Germany you can get pollen injections that cure hayfeaver.
The practice was banned in the UK after a seris of deaths.

Injecting pollen?! That's like.....finding a needle in a haystack! :88) :shifty: :D

[baggygreen]

wow...

so many bad puns in here.

this thread oughta bee renamed:shifty: :cool:

there sure isnt a shortage of bees whenever i've got the girls over sipping at their girly pre-mixed drinks - those little bastards get into everything!

[Letum]

Oh yer! :huh:
Thats news to me! :D
It's not bad added to cereal in fact. :) Supposed to help with hayfever too.
In Germany you can get pollen injections that cure hayfeaver.
The practice was banned in the UK after a seris of deaths.
Injecting pollen?! That's like.....finding a needle in a haystack! :88) :shifty: :D

*dies of pun overdose*
bwahaha!

[NefariousKoel]

I have plenty of bees hanging around my apple and pear trees. One stung me two days ago. Should I box them up and ship them off to those in need?

[Letum]

I have plenty of bees hanging around my apple and pear trees. One stung me two days ago. Should I box them up and ship them off to those in need?
Nah, hang on to them.
I got a tip that bee prices are gonna skyrocket soon.

*lame edit*
You could post them to those in need as a plan B...ee

[waste gate]

Well isn't this thread the bee's knees. Buzz, buzz, buzz. All this bumble about an insect which pollenates flowering plants. Your signifigant others will not get as many roses. They want diamonds anyway.

:smug:

[STEED]

BUZZ OFF :p

[Iceman]

I must say when I had seen this thread I dismissed it and did not even open it...yet after doing some research on Springtails ... and the possible reactions to humans from them lead me to some other things but one had me looking at this "superbug man made thing (http://www.silentsuperbug.com/)" which from there had some links or wonders if it had been affecting the bee populations (http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/29/news/honeybees/index.htm?cnn=yes)...

Working in the communications industry myself I subscribe to Augusts theory or possibilites to the affects of bee navagation being affected by different fields and such I alos like the over spraying and build up of chemicals in the ground etc which may have caused this...

My son and I were wanting to send in some challenge to Myth Busters for them to work on so this I think is a great one to create some closed test site and see if creating different fields can interfere with navagition...good one August. :up:

Back to my original search on Springtails was intresting to find they are one of the only insects to be able to break down some of those chemicals we are spraying... :) "It's estimated that more than 80% of the organic matter on earth passes through the gut of a springtail or sow bug on its journey to becoming topsoil."

but ya if the bees go we wont have to worry about anything for long...
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger2/7552/170171067786211/227/z/234456/gse_multipart8031.jpg

[August]

My son and I were wanting to send in some challenge to Myth Busters for them to work on so this I think is a great one to create some closed test site and see if creating different fields can interfere with navagition...good one August. :up:
If they do it please get me a T-shirt! I love that show.

[drupps]

I read a report about this on bbcnews.com. I don't remember the whole jist of it, but basically bee's are dying off and scientists don't know why. No bee's means no pollination which means no food.... :down:

[waste gate]

I read a report about this on bbcnews.com. I don't remember the whole jist of it, but basically bee's are dying off and scientists don't know why. No bee's means no pollination which means no food.... :down:

Wrong. Bees pollinate flowering plants, roses, tulips, dafodils and such. Flowering plants are not consumed by people. If you consume flowering plants for sustinance, I would suggest a change. Cereals such as wheat, corn, soy, rice are not affected.

[Letum]

Flowering plants are not consumed by people. If you consume flowering plants for sustenance, I would suggest a change.
:doh: 2 classics from WG in one thread!

Flowering plants that we eat:

Beans (staple food in many places)
Potatoes (staple food in many places)
Fruit (by definition)
Most Vegetables
Any many, many, many more!

I take it we won't see you in Chelsea this week?

[waste gate]

Flowering plants are not consumed by people. If you consume flowering plants for sustenance, I would suggest a change.
:doh: 2 classics from WG in one thread!

Flowering plants that we eat:

Beans (staple food in many places)
Potatoes (staple food in many places)
Fruit (by definition)
Most Vegetables
Any many, many, many more!

I take it we won't see you in Chelsea this week?

In a word BEEF, rare thank you.

[fatty]

Cows consume flowering plants :cry:

[Letum]

Cows consume flowering plants :cry:
Especialy in your home country, Canada!

Alfalfa!

[fatty]

Cows consume flowering plants :cry:
Especialy in your home country, Canada!

Alfalfa!

I was thinking of grass, but good call!

[Frau_Phillips]

As far as ants go, there are about 50 dead ones on my window sill. And some icky looking larvae. I dont think we need to worry about the ant population dying off. Blech.

[jaimela]

Bees aren't bad, it's a shame they're disappearing. Even ants are bearable as long as they're not fire ants. Now wasps, they're just nasty. Why can't wasps start fading???

[ASWnut101]

Bees aren't bad, it's a shame they're disappearing. Even ants are bearable as long as they're not fire ants. Now wasps, they're just nasty. Why can't wasps start fading???

I've seen wasps here kill off an entire bees nest, once. Ended up having to shoot down the wasp nest with a BB rifle after it got to the size of a baseball. Annoying little F-ers.


Welcome to Subsim, by the way.

[August]

Bees aren't bad, it's a shame they're disappearing. Even ants are bearable as long as they're not fire ants. Now wasps, they're just nasty. Why can't wasps start fading???

Bees in general aren't dissapearing. It's the European Honey bee that is dissapearing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_honey_bee

[Iceman]

I read a report about this on bbcnews.com. I don't remember the whole jist of it, but basically bee's are dying off and scientists don't know why. No bee's means no pollination which means no food.... :down:

Wrong. Bees pollinate flowering plants, roses, tulips, dafodils and such. Flowering plants are not consumed by people. If you consume flowering plants for sustinance, I would suggest a change. Cereals such as wheat, corn, soy, rice are not affected.

Come on dude please...everything is related and relevant...food chain.

To make such an arogant statement shows a total lack of intelligence reallyhttp://www.cyberallies.com/support/nfphpbb/images/smiles/icon_scratch.gif.We walk a tightrope that is frayed already...it needs no additional help by humans to make it snap.

I think the only animal that could die off and not have a negative impact on the world would be us.

come on waste gate...

[August]

I read a report about this on bbcnews.com. I don't remember the whole jist of it, but basically bee's are dying off and scientists don't know why. No bee's means no pollination which means no food.... :down:
Wrong. Bees pollinate flowering plants, roses, tulips, dafodils and such. Flowering plants are not consumed by people. If you consume flowering plants for sustinance, I would suggest a change. Cereals such as wheat, corn, soy, rice are not affected.
Come on dude please...everything is related and relevant...food chain.

To make such an arogant statement shows a total lack of intelligence reallyhttp://www.cyberallies.com/support/nfphpbb/images/smiles/icon_scratch.gif.We walk a tightrope that is frayed already...it needs no additional help by humans to make it snap.

Totally agree.

I think the only animal that could die off and not have a negative impact on the world would be us.

Disagree with this. Man does a lot to help the planet and there would be many species that would disappear without our support.

Besides when we destroy that incoming planet killer asteroid before it hits earth in the not to distant future we'll have more than made up for our worst excesses! :up:

[Skybird]

Disagree with this. Man does a lot to help the planet and there would be many species that would disappear without our support.

Disagree. Most species currently dying or having brought to exticntion during the past 400 years - are dying or have died because of us. Now we try to save some individual animals here and there in local, well-meant initiatives, but this does not make up for the simple fact that although species have died in huge quantities in the past of Earth (during the cosmis Blitz, during the two major iceages, after that assumed damn meteor struck earth and killed all dinosaurs), today a new death race of species is underway which is exclusively caused by man's impact on global conditons. The speed and pace of global extinction of species is many times, multiple times faster than it was ever before during the current geological age of Earth. No, August, we do not help species not to disappear - we make them disappear. we do not do a lot to help the planet - we do a lot to destroy it. Scientists estimate the current man-made speed of extinction of species to be 100 - 1000 times faster than the usual background process of natural/evolutional selection.

For the record, only 2 million zoological and botanical species are known today. It is expected that 5 - 30 million species currently exist on the planet.

[August]

Disagree

You would human hater...

[Skybird]

?!?!? Versteh' nur Bahnhof.

[U-533]

Come on dude please...everything is related and relevant...food chain.

To make such an arogant statement shows a total lack of intelligence reallyhttp://www.cyberallies.com/support/nfphpbb/images/smiles/icon_scratch.gif.We walk a tightrope that is frayed already...it needs no additional help by humans to make it snap.

I think the only animal that could die off and not have a negative impact on the world would be us.


If everyone who felt this way put a bullet in thier brain to help out then "Global Warming" would have no effect...

Then maybe the rest of us could walk the rope a little longer...

Sure is funny how people who believe what your preaching dont act on the solution.

BEESIDES ... I already told you what the bees are up to... but y'all act like I'm nuts or sumthin...

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[The Avon Lady]

Just like the global warming debate (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/science/17bees.html?ex=1342324800&en=fcb8ad4b33a3e840&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink).

My, my! Must be coincidental. :sunny: :roll:

[August]

What the heck is a synthetic organic insecticide? :doh:

[The Avon Lady]

What the heck is a synthetic organic insecticide? :doh:
Sounds like a manufactured version of an insecticide found in nature.

EDIT: Nice sig quote. ;)

[Heibges]

I think this issue, the poisoning of all America's rivers out west with rocket fuel, and respiratory problems caused by smog are a lot more serious than global warming.

We had the answer to global warming and these other problems 30 years ago. It a very sopisticated concept called "car pooling". :nope:

[August]

EDIT: Nice sig quote. ;)

Thanks
http://www.cbc.ca/onthemap/fullpage.php?id=87

[The Avon Lady]

EDIT: Nice sig quote. ;)

Thanks
http://www.cbc.ca/onthemap/fullpage.php?id=87
Too late (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=594333&postcount=25)! :p

I'm not a big fan of Dennis Prager but CBC's Avi Lewis handed it to him on a silver platter this time:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq5xV0p4l-0)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4KnP_32SNo)

But we're off-topic, even though those are stinging retorts. :p

[TteFAboB]

I thought we had settled this...Tchocky showed us some guys burning a bunch of bees, that is why they're disappearing, people are doing that all over the place.

This should end the debate. Shut up now. If you disagree it's because you're on Ranger Smith's payroll, and no, I'm not on Yogi Bear's payroll.

[The Avon Lady]

I've mentioned this before and I tend to agree:

Next up to bat is overfishing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgM6FrgizU). :yep:

[Radtgaeb]

I will say this much wasps are getting bigger and more of them.
You mean one of these? :huh: These beasts are not measured in millimeteres, but several centimetres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4MAt7X9xE

Anyone hear a Lancaster fly by here?