Please help a newbie to launch REALISTIC torpedo shots

[rdhiggins]

Hello, :o

I have been attempting to learn how to sink enemy vessels using the manual TDC process. I would much rather sink a ship on my own, than by everything set to easy mode.

The ship that I am trying to sink is actually one enemy vessel, the cruiser in the training exercise.

In doing so I keep missing the damn cruiser. My torpedos end up either before or after the ship.

These are the exact steps that I am currently attempting:

1. Periscope depth
2. Speed 1/3
3. No change in direction.
4. Raised Periscope.
5. Locked on cruiser.
6. Using Recognition Manual to identify ship,and selected check mark. Which then updates the position keeper with the target name and range, and speed as 00.
7. I then selected the UPPER red arrow to the right on the range stadimeter.
8. Then selected the AOB icon in order to point the ship example to the way the enemy ship was facing and selected the Upper red arrow to send the AOB.
9. Finally I selected the speed icon. From this I set it based on the speed in knots from the recognition manual and selected the red arrow.

Afterwhich I re-clicked on the position keeper status which changes from white to red.

When I launch my torpedoes they miss. :doh:

I have a feeling it has something to do with the speed, and the manual is really not too helpful. The manual basically states that I can use the stopwatch to measure the speed, which I tried but not too sure I follow. When clicking on the stopwatch I wait for about 20 seconds, and then stop it shows the second hand in the 4-5 position, which I assumed this is 4-5 knots but the ship seems to be going a lot faster than that!

Thanks for any and all support!!!!! :D

[NefariousKoel]

Yes, speed is your issue.

The timer which is used to estimate target speed does not work right now so your target speed was still set to 0 instead of the approximately 9 knots.

[rdhiggins]

What would you recommend then as far as determinig speed?

[tedhealy]

If you go with 100%, I use 3 ways. If I have little time, I just guess based on the recog manual's top speed and how fast they appear to be going. If I have more time, I'll plot them on the map over a set period of time and then do the he covered x distance in y time, solve for speed thing. If I have lots of time, I'll shadow the target and adjust my speed to his until I can hold the range to him steady and then you'll know his speed.

[RedHammer]

Yea, even tho I get no major bugs right now, the game, because of weird speed issues in tdc, is atm killed for me. It`s just not fun with auto tdc anymore, I simply want to get a clean kill with completely manual TDC. That`s when watching the torpedo holes and all makes me really satisfyed.


S!

RH

[highkoo]

Im not even sure how to use the Speed check function properly, i click on the timer icon and nothing happens......wiat a bit and then click on it again...send data but no speed update?
I have also tried by clicking the top of the timer and ....wait and clicking it again then send data but nothing still :hmm:

*EDIT* oh speeds not working yet shoot.. well is there a way to manually enter the value for speed as an estimate then ?

[RedHammer]

Yes there is, but it is very unreliable I heard. Another thing you can do is to use the charts for speed. I don`t know anything about that method though.

S!

RH

[Psyon]

post deleted

Neal's post below makes the easiest way of getting speed close .

thats the way i will do it from now on...

[Onkel Neal]

Take 1/2 the speed listed in the recog manual for a single ship;
For a convoy, take 1/2 the speed of the slowest ship.

And then make small adjustments as needed.

[highkoo]

Ok but how do i actually input the speed ?

[Torcher]

From Wiki, for those so inclined to chart, time and convert.

Conversions
1 (international) knot is exactly equal to 1.852 kilometres per hour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometres_per_hour) (km·h−1), and is approximately equal to the following:

101.268591 feet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_%28unit_of_length%29) per minute
1.687810 feet per second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feet_per_second)
0.5144444 meters per second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_per_second) (m·s−1)
1.150779 mile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile) (statute) per hour (mph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_hour))
0.99936 Admiralty knot

[rdhiggins]

The very last stadimeter dial (from the periscope view or TBT) allows you to rotate a dial to enter the speed.

[melin71]

same here...i hope REALY hope they fix that speed bug.

[ryuzu]

It's fairly easy to work out speed by hand (as long as you have calculator handy).

It does require a bit of trigonometry though (remember SOHCAHTOA?)....and it's most accurate if you are stationary or at least very slow while doing it (just like the training mission).

1) Having got range etc, lock the target in the scope (or for more "realism" you can do it without locking the target).

2) Note the bearing to the target as displayed at the top of the scope view and then start your clock (Let's say for example it was 320 degrees when you started the clock).

3) Wait 10 secs. (You can use any time you like, but 10 secs is as good as any).

4) As soon as the 10 secs is up check the new bearing of the target (it should have changed). Anyway, let's say the ending bearing was 325 degrees.

5) Ok take the difference in the two bearings 320 - 325 = 5 degrees brg change in 10 secs.

6) Using our stadimeter range, and our noted time and bearing change, a bit of trigonometry will give us the speed.

There is One important thing here - the stadimeter will give you a range in Yards - there are 3 feet to a yard! Personally I prefer to work in feet so I do a conversion from Yards to feet (just multiply the range from the Stadimeter by 3).

So let's say we have

Range - 1020yds
Brg Change - 5 degrees
Time - 10 secs

a) 1060 yds = 3060ft

b) Use -- Tan Brg Change x Range (in feet) = Distance travelled by target in feet

So using the numbers above :

Tan 5 x 3060 = 267.71ft

The target travelled 267.6ft in 10 secs. To determine speed in Knots we do :

c) 267.7 x 6 = 1606.3ft (we multiplied by 6 because we used 10 secs as our time period, there are '6 lots of 10' in a minute). The target is doing 1606.3ft per minute.

d) 1606.3 x 60 = 96377.5ft - This gives us the distance in feet the target travels in an hour.

e) Last step, convert 96377.5ft to Knots. Simply divide by 6076 (that's the number of feet in a Nautical Mile). So 96377.5 / 6076 = 15.86. Call it 16 Knots.


Important note on all of this, if you are not perpendicular to the track of the target, this system will not be accurate since the trigonometry in use is for right angle triangles. However, as long as you're more or less in the right place this should be accurate enough.

It looks like a lot of work, but you can get through the maths quickly enough and come out with an accurate result. If you're struggling for time, just pause the game when you've got the time and bearing change and you can take as long as you like going through the numbers.

For the training mission you should find this kind of data (depending on where/when in to the mission you take the data)

Range 1020 yds
Bearing change ~ 3 degrees in 10 secs

Doing the maths again ((Tan 3 x 3060) x 360)/6076 = 9.5 Kts

Scratch another enemy vessel ;)

r.

[SpFiota]

You can't use the timer? Any clue when that will be fixed? Man, talk about a pain. I spent about half an hour reading the manual and trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Turns out the game doesn't even work right.

[zAmboni]

Depending on how slowly you are entering the information into the TDC, by the time you clicked the position keeper status button the firing solution may have been bad.

[NefariousKoel]

If you use the Imperial system, there's the 3 minute rule:

1) Plot current location of target on map with the pencil, start the chronometer.

2) After 3 minutes, make a 2nd mark at it's location.

3) Measure (in yards) the distance between the 2 marks.

4) Take that measurement (in yards) and divide it by 100. This is it's speed in knots.

Of course, having 3 minutes is quite a luxury.

[ReM]

The best explanation I ever read about manual targeting (and plotting):

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

it was written for SH III buth the principles remain the same......

[castorp345]

somewhat OT, but i'm curious: historically, on boats of the USN in the pacific of this period, who was responsible for actually providing the data fed to the TDC? the capitain, the watch officer, the "weapons officer" (did USN boats have such a position?), some combination of the above? how did the data acquisition role differ from surfaced to submerged?

also, any recommended source readings for any of the infos above would be much appreciated!

cheers
hc

[Linavitch]

a) 1060 yds = 3060ft



r.

1060 x 3 = 3180

[SharpShin]

Some great info here. I'm learning to play on 100% and it's not too difficult except for determining speed. I've been estimating and that is not very accurate.

[Sank_Quick]

b) Use -- Tan Brg Change x Range (in feet) = Distance travelled by target in feet

So using the numbers above :

Tan 5 x 3060 = 267.71ft



r.

Forgive me if i'm just really dumb (which i am at math, especially Trig) but when i type into my calc "tan(5)3060" my answer is not even close to 267, its -10344... and i don't believe there is another way to put it into my Ti-83, any help would be grand as this is the only step i'm missing to being able to use the TDC atleast semi-properly. Thanks :up:

[Igorry]

Hi ryuzu

[quote=ryuzu]
Important note on all of this, if you are not perpendicular to the track of the target, this system will not be accurate since the trigonometry in use is for right angle triangles. However, as long as you're more or less in the right place this should be accurate enough.

It looks like a lot of work, but you can get through the maths quickly enough and come out with an accurate result. If you're struggling for time, just pause the game when you've got the time and bearing change and you can take as long as you like going through the numbers.

------------------------------


Can you give an example or workings of a trigonometry calculation when you are not perpendicular to the track of the target?

say you have the folllowing information from two observation...


1st observation - bearing to target and range of target
2nd observation (maybe 30 secs or a minute later?) - bearing to target and range of target

Other information available- your own speed and distance covered in the time between the two observation. your own course.

Is it possible to work out the AOB of the 2nd observation and the the distance travelled by the target between the two observation?


Thanks

[LukeFF]

What we need is the nomograph mod from SH3 ported over to SH4. That thing is golden for figuring out speed, distance, and time.

[SharpShin]

How can you plot the target ship's position on the map on 100% realism? I get no icons except for my own unless a radio message is recieved but even then its position is not updated.

[tedhealy]

How can you plot the target ship's position on the map on 100% realism? I get no icons except for my own unless a radio message is recieved but even then its position is not updated.

Yup. You do it :D

Get the bearing and range to target, then go to the map and make a mark your self. Want it updated? Get the range and bearing again and make a new mark.

We really need the bearing overlay for own sub icon on the map like the SH3 mod to make drawing bearing lines a whole bunch easier.