"Passing Thermal Layer"

[Wallaze]

Greetings!

I've been reading stuff here for some time now, but this is my first post! ;)

First off I'm a newbie when it comes to Subsims, I've only played SH3 and lately SH4.
Even with all the bugs, I'm really happy about a Sim featuring US boats. :D


With that being said here's my question:

During my first patrol I ordered a crash dive. Upon reaching a certain deapth (sadly can't remember it) I got a voice report that said "Passing Thermal Layer".
I've only ever heard of thermal layers while reading Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising.
So from what I know I should be able to go flank speed while under that layer and a destroyer overhead wouldn't be able to hear me on his passive sonar, right?


Does anybody know if this is actually possible in the simulation? Or is it just a feature that is half-implemented? I'm curious because I only get this voice report and have no idea how I could check on different layer depths and stuff.

Would be nice if somebody could help out a fellow subsim newb. :D

[Deep-Six]

I dont have the game yet, but yes it is possible.:)

[Dowly]

Yeh, that´s what we are trying to figure out... hard to test. :rotfl:

[nifo]

My favorite subsim on the C64 (and later amiga) was Hunt For red October.

On the C64, a mission could take anywhere from 1 to 40 minutes to loads, since you has to "insert mission casette" and after pressing play, it had to run all the way to the right mission, which could be anywhere on the tape :)

Those were the times - or not ;)

Anyway - LOVED the game hunt for red october - ww3 in the seawolf-class. I'm still dreaming of a modern version of the game! I will never forget the sonar features, alfa class russian subs etc!

Anyway - about topic, I have been wondering about the same. In hunt for red october, you used the thermal layer to hide. I a sub were beneath you, the best option was to go on the opposite of the layer - and if it was a destroyer on the surface, you would crash dive under the layer. It would help alot, but flank speed will always give you away - thermal layer or not :)

[Wallaze]

Ah too bad I don't have time yet.
When I get home I'll have a go at it again.

I mean how do you find out about the depth of a thermal layer in real life? And does a thermal layer affect active sonar?


@nifo:

Really? Didn't know that some sound still travels through the layer! I thought it reflects enough sound for the submarine to be undetectable. So Good to know.
Now I'll only have to find out which speed is safe...

[dean_acheson]

The thermal layer allows you to sneak out faster, it isn't an invitation to run at flank. try 1/2 or so.

It doesn't stop sound from reaching enemy ears, it mearly is a change in water temp. that distorts the waves produced by the enemy's sonar.

It makes it much harder for a good DC run on you.

The game doesn't have a 'temp' gauge, ala SH1, but they do announce it, just watch your crush depth....

[swe-mike]

A thermal layer is just what it sounds to be, a shift of temperature where you get two areas, one warmer and one colder. This difference creates a layer that a submarine can use for cover. This beacuse the layer between the two areas distort and reflects the sonar signal (not all though) thus creating a "blury" image for the sonar operator.

Found this on the net:

The differences in water temperature at different depths form the so-called “thermal layers” (or “thermocyclines”), the borders of which also bounce sound beams. In specific parts of some seas and oceans, these differences are so massive, that they enable even large submarines to hide in one thermal layer, or – better said: bellow them – then the thermocyclines are so massive they bounce sounds from any kind of active sonars, or completely block the sounds from reaching the passive sonar.

/Mike

[Gildor]

A thermal layer is like looking through thick glass in air, the line from the hunter to the target is distorted changing where the actual location is (even though it is not different)

In other words, the hunter still knows something is down there, just not exactly where it is, because the signals/sounds are distorted.

If you are in a thermal layer, it doesn't give you a license to run at full speed, etc. they hunter will know you are around - somewhere.

[Wallaze]

A thermal layer is like looking through thick glass in air, the line from the hunter to the target is distorted changing where the actual location is (even though it is not different)

In other words, the hunter still knows something is down there, just not exactly where it is, because the signals/sounds are distorted.

If you are in a thermal layer, it doesn't give you a license to run at full speed, etc. they hunter will know you are around - somewhere.

Ok, I think I get it.
Great that this is simulated!

Thanks for the kind explanation!

[Gildor]

No Problem. Good luck in your hunting.

[hyperion2206]

What surprised me was that on my 1st patrol I was told at some point that I was passing a thermal layer allthough I did not have the equipment to detect such a layer.:hmm:;)

[The General]

Thermal Layers are in SH4!? Oh man this game is just fantastic! In your face all you Haters, go take a look at the gorgeous screenshots in the photo and video post you Monkeys!

[stabiz]

Monkey.

[Rickenbacker]

My favorite subsim on the C64 (and later amiga) was Hunt For red October.

I think you mean Red Storm Rising, and I loved that game as well. I even bought it both for the C64 and the Amiga (didn't really buy games back then, when copies were freely available from friends :-)). Until Firaxis decide to remake it, I'll be playing Dangerous Waters (available on Steam), which is as close to Red Storm Rising as you can get without an old Amiga.

[Tranton]

Is there a bathythermograph that you can actually look at...or is it limited to a crew member calling it out. I remember seeing the thermograph in 'Below' and was hoping it would be a mannable station in SH4. Either way I am happy that thermal layers are ingame. :rock:

[ijozic]

The differences in water temperature at different depths form the so-called “thermal layers” (or “thermocyclines”),
Just a small correction - the correct term is "thermocline".

[nifo]

My favorite subsim on the C64 (and later amiga) was Hunt For red October.

I think you mean Red Storm Rising, and I loved that game as well. I even bought it both for the C64 and the Amiga (didn't really buy games back then, when copies were freely available from friends :-)). Until Firaxis decide to remake it, I'll be playing Dangerous Waters (available on Steam), which is as close to Red Storm Rising as you can get without an old Amiga.

I cant beliveve is forgot the name of my all time "most-time-used" game :)

Red Stom Rising - OF COURSE"
Tried it once on PC - time has certainly run from it...

[MadMike]

Technical developments for WWII U.S. subs-

A-scope (Dec 41)
SD radar (Jan 42)
SJ radar (Aug 42)
BT (Mar 43)
PPI (Sep 43)
APR-1 (May 44)

http://www.valoratsea.com/basics.htm#TECH%20INFO

Yours, Mike

[castorp345]

Technical developments for WWII U.S. subs-

A-scope (Dec 41)
SD radar (Jan 42)
SJ radar (Aug 42)
BT (Mar 43)
PPI (Sep 43)
APR-1 (May 44)

thanks for that Mike!
i think i'll be getting rid of the "passing thermal layer" message on my install as i'm cruising around in the s-class beginning of '42. ;)
any info as to what boats the BT was historically installed on and how effective it was?
also, 'anybody know if it's an installable component in sh4? if so then perhaps the "passing thermal layer" message ought to be linked to its installation...

[Aimbot]

As a scuba diver I can say that the sensation of a thermal layer is amazing. The shift in temperature is so distinct that you can't feel any scaling at all. It's actually kind of disorienting. Between this and the accurate speed of sound I have to say this game has all the right little details.

[ssbn627g]

The abbreviation is BT. They started installing it late 42, early 43 and is still used to this day. The early units only gave Temperature vs Depth graph. The units today also measure speed of sound. Today, we also have a device that is launched out of a signal ejector that will give you a profile to a couple thousand feet. (SSXBT).

The thermocline will reflect/scatter alot of the transmitted sound waves, but some will get thru. It allows you the ability to maneuver at slightly higher speeds to try to evade your hunter. Old tactics were to get under the thermal layer, but later the best evasion depth rule of thumb was the layer depth + 200 ft.