ATI: Auto 2D/3D overdrive problem

[Anachronous]

As you may or not know. Modern ATI cards only run at full speed (core/memory/voltage) when running fullscreen 3D, compared to 2D desktop mode or windowed games where they underclock to stay cooler/quieter. This isnt usually an issue, unless you play lots of games in windowed mode (like i used to with my old Nvidia card). In my case 2D = 508/600 where 3D = 655/1008.

I noticed today on my x1950XTX, that on rare occasions while starting and playing SH4 the speed was still at its default 2D setting and hadnt bumped up the speed to fullscreen settings.

Im using ATI Tray tools OSD to monitor speed and temp. I thought i'd check because as you can imagine, this has quite a noticable effect on performance.

Im wondering if anyone else has noticed this? Cats 7.2 btw. With version 1.0 and 1.1 of SH4.

PS.. I reallllllly need some FSAA :P

[Immacolata]

I've heard about it but can't check it. Ive downloaded ATT. How do I enable it to show me current clockspeeds?

[edit]
My god! you are right! I am using X1900XT with Cat 7.2. There is now way I can get SH4 to fire up my 3d clocks (621/721 on X1900XT). IT stays at 500/600. If I fire up WoW it immediately swithces to 3d clocks.

[Anachronous]

I went into my CCC overdrive panel, enabled it, and then restored defaults, and clicked apply at startup. This seemed to work the next couple times (3) I loaded SH4. Though as i said, its random so ill be monitoring it.

I cant use the ATT overclocking because the support for x1950xtx is limited. Otherwise id make a profile to force it into the right clock speeds. :(

I dont know if the latest Nvidia cards work the same way. The last Nvidia poo i had was the 6600GT which I had manually set higher by default anyhow. :)

[Immacolata]

Forget about overclocking. Both Ati Tray Tools and ATI Tools makes your computer crash if you use their OC options with SHIV. Ive tried many different methods now and there is just NO WAY you can run SHIV at its intended speed on a X1900XT with Catalyst 7.2.

The 1.1 patch does not fix this, unfortunately.

[Anachronous]

I dont mean overclocking as such, i mean using the overclocking settings to set the default clock speeds. (Btw, Driver level, not low level).

Anyway im not overclocking, i've just enabled overdrive (in CCC not ATT) and left it default speeds, which seems to have fixed it for now. A few more game starts will tell.

All im using ATT for is the OSD.

[bunkerratt]

?my ati x1950 pro clocks and stays clocked usin ccc and overdrive..no probs at all

[Immacolata]

I dont mean overclocking as such, i mean using the overclocking settings to set the default clock speeds. (Btw, Driver level, not low level).

Makes no difference. I've been there.

[Gizzmoe]

My god! you are right! I am using X1900XT with Cat 7.2. There is now way I can get SH4 to fire up my 3d clocks (621/721 on X1900XT). IT stays at 500/600. If I fire up WoW it immediately swithces to 3d clocks.

Yup, same problem here with my X1950XT and Cat 6.12. Not good... :hmm:

[Anachronous]

Same problem with 1.1 unfortunately

[Jeffg]

I have a ATI 1600 and just installed lastest drivers and I am running at my desktop at 1280x960 and SH4 is running very slow.I can not figure out why as I have a P4 3.2 with 2 gigs of ram also.
JeffG

[darkfin]

Same here. P4 3.0 with 4 gigs ram. ATI x1600 512 meg video. Even FSX runs better and that's not saying much. Has anyone tried the Omega drivers? I might give that a go this weekend.

[Immacolata]

Please all of you be so kind and post on the UBI forums (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/6421019045) too. Not sure if its Ubi or DAAMIT that are responsible, but attention to the matter would be nice.

[Gizzmoe]

Has anyone tried the Omega drivers?
I use the Omegadriver based on 6.12, doesn´t help.

[Gizzmoe]

Please all of you be so kind and post on the UBI forums (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/6421019045) too. Not sure if its Ubi or DAAMIT that are responsible, but attention to the matter would be nice.

The devs monitor Subsim as well.

[darkfin]

Has anyone tried the Omega drivers?
I use the Omegadriver based on 6.12, doesn´t help.

Thanks Gizzmoe. You most likely save me grief. Swaping vid drivers has brought me down a few times in my life.

[ENIGMAXXI]

Maybe problem with the way the actual 3D is being handled by game engine in contrast to the 2D interface, ie. the rescaling stuff of fixed res, so driver doesn't get the hint that, "underneath" the 2D interface a 3D app is running as well?

[Immacolata]

Good.

To all of you with ATI cards that suspects something is amiss. I suggest you install ATI Tray Tools (http://www.guru3d.com/article/atitraytools/189/).

Start the program and answer no to the popup. YOu want the ATI "Hotkey Poller" running so that the 3d mode "Overdrive" clock function still works.


Right click the Ati Tray Tools icon in your system tray,

Tools & Options -> OnScreen Display
Select the tab FlashOSD.

Select the "Show all time" from the drop down boax and tick the boxes for GPU speed and Memory Speed.

Click OK.

Now you should see information about gpu and memory speed for your ATI card as soon as you run a 3d-program or other DirectDraw application. When I launch a "proper" 3d-game I see my clock go from 500/600 to 621/721. Thats good.

When I launch SHIV it stays at 500/600.

Please do this and post your findings here. Include what OS you run and what version of ATI Catalyst you use.

like this:

OS, ATI card, catalyst driver. CPU, Mem.
2d clock speed ???/???
3d clock speed ???/???
SHIV clock speed.

[Immacolata]

Windosx XP SP2, ATI X1900XT, Catalyst 6.12. Also tested with 7.2.
AMD X2 4400+ (2 core cpu). 2048 MB memory. Have AMD and MS hotfix KB896256 for dualcore cpu installed.
2d clock speed 499/599
3d clock speed 621/721
SHIV 1.0/1.1 clock speed 499/599

[newsoft]

Hmm... I'm starting to get worried here. I also have the ATI x1600 pro (AGP) 512mb and I'm getting 17 fps on the bridge at 1024x768. :shifty: All graphics boxes selected OFF. Never had a problem with SHIII. Ran at 35-45 no matter what.

Other specs:
AMD 64 3500+ 2,21mhz
1Gb Ram

[ENIGMAXXI]

Hmm... I'm starting to get worried here. I also have the ATI x1600 pro (AGP) 512mb and I'm getting 17 fps on the bridge at 1024x768. :shifty: All graphics boxes selected OFF. Never had a problem with SHIII. Ran at 35-45 no matter what.

Other specs:
AMD 64 3500+ 2,21mhz
1Gb Ram

...mebbe because the x1600 doesnt support Overdrive? . . .

[newsoft]

Solved it though. Perhaps the other guys with x1600 difficulties should try this?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=456507&postcount=334

[Torcher]

X1950xtx
No overdrive kick in when going into SH4.

Other 3d programs it starts up.

I have all settings maxed in overdrive (watercooling) and have never had problems.

[MobyGrape]

disable osd in att..that will elimate some crashes..had to do that in other games,,GH

[Immacolata]

Yes but it was ONLY to check if your ATI card went into overdrive or not. Guess ppl cant be arsed.

[Immacolata]

Sorry to bump this but I think we need to narrow down the problem with ATI cards Overdrive and SHIV not working.

Could any further replies to this thread come with actual useful information except just "me too's"?

Post what ATI card you are running and what catalysts you are using, together with other RELEVANT system informaton (no, we don't need to know the number and size of fans, whether your air- or waterchill your cpu, the size of your screen etc).

Even better is if you have double checked with ATI Tray Tools' built-in OnScreen Display whether or not the 3d-clocks fire.

With my ATI X1900XT its 500/600 2d and 621/721 3d, and it doesnt activate on SHIV.

[Anachronous]

disable osd in att..that will elimate some crashes..had to do that in other games,,GH

Thanks, but thats nothing to do with this thread. We are using ATT as a tool to monitor our clock speeds, which are supposed to change when going to 3D mode in late model ATI cards, but they arent.

[Torcher]

Okay, posted earlier regarding my x1950XTX. Here is some more info.

Running Cat 7.1 with overdrive enabled and start at logon checked.
Both GPU and Mem sliders are maxed (695 & 1098). Stable due to water cooling. CoH and FEAR play great.

I loaded up ATT and sure enough the 3d clock did not kick in when playing SH4. Even before using ATT I figured something was wrong when I would leave the game then immediately check my GPU temp and it was only at around 40C.

I tried an experiment. Leaving the Overdrive settings as is I went into ATT and used its overclocking feature. I know some have said it's squirrley with the x1950XTX but I figured I'd try.

I matched (sort of) the OC values of 695 and 1098 (although ATT would only go uo to 900 on the memory) and hit apply. My screen became corrupted but fortunately the ATI recovery feature kicked in and the screen came back fine. Thing is is that the ATT overclock values remained. I thought once the ATI recovery kicked in it would reset/negate the values.

Anyway, I went into the Overdrive screen and bingo, it said I was running at 695/1098.

Okay, so I turn ATT OSD back on and head into SH4. Clocks held at 695/1098! Additionally, I knew it was OC'ing 'cuz my temp was now up to 56C. This did not happen before.

Basically, I'm using both ATT OC'ing and ATI's Overdrive at the same time and it's holding. One caveat is that in 2D mode the OC'ing is still present ... it does not use the Overdrive feature of lowering the clocks.

It was too late last night to give it a thorough shake-down so I'll do that tonight after work. At least the 1950XTX is now using all of its potential!

[bunkerratt]

ok..i posted a pic over in the ubi sh4 room ...my x1950 pro 256 pcie is running in game @621/770 ..using atitray tools w/ati overdrive..an ingame screenie ..upper right corner under fps...http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/bunkerratt/SH4Img23-3-2007_13.jpg

[Immacolata]

Thanks bunkerratt. And crap >.< If some works but not all then how the heck are we going to find out what the problem is?

[bunkerratt]

no prob man..your welcome...hope the rest of you can figure out what the glitch is on your systems...i'm not trying to start any probs just posted the screenie as visual proof that it in fact is working and running fine in game...

[Spectre-63]

Just a note for Vista users:

The current Catalysts for Vista do not properly support the Overdrive speed switching under Vista. In fact, the speed switching caused a BSOD for me. Catalyst 7.3's are supposed to address this issue.

That said, I've got SHIV running just find under Vista. :D

[Anachronous]

no prob man..your welcome...hope the rest of you can figure out what the glitch is on your systems...i'm not trying to start any probs just posted the screenie as visual proof that it in fact is working and running fine in game...

How many times did you try it out? Mine was random.

[Freddy083]

Same problem : ati X1950XT with Catalyst 7.2 under WinXP Pro ... No overdrive kick in when going into SH4.

Hope there will be a patch or a new Catalyst's fix for that.

[R3D]

my overdrive wouldnt kick in when i first started the game, was'nt till i started playing with the slider's and resetting them ingame after that it started to work.. now its working all the time.

[OneTinSoldier]

Bump, because I just got an X1950 Pro 512MB yesterday! :damn:

[DJSatane]

Btw, 7.3 drivers came out last night with various vista fixes.

[SinisterDexter]

Same problem here. No overdrive in SH4. Checked with Ati Tray Tools.
x1950xtx, Windows XP, Catalyst 7.3 :down:

[Audie]

I had the same issue - no 3D speeds with SHIV - in fact, I had no 3D speeds at all.

I am running a X1900XTX with WINXP SP2. I was running CAT 7.2.

To fix the issue I uninstalled the CATs and ran DriverCleaner. I then DL'd the latest Omega Drivers and installed. After I did this my 3D speeds were switching on for everything EXCEPT SHIV.

To get it to switch, I installed ATI Tools and forced it - but just for SHIV.

Sigh...

[Clouseau]

I had the same issue - no 3D speeds with SHIV - in fact, I had no 3D speeds at all.

I am running a X1900XTX with WINXP SP2. I was running CAT 7.2.

To fix the issue I uninstalled the CATs and ran DriverCleaner. I then DL'd the latest Omega Drivers and installed. After I did this my 3D speeds were switching on for everything EXCEPT SHIV.

To get it to switch, I installed ATI Tools and forced it - but just for SHIV.

Sigh...

How can i force the 3D mode?

[XanderF]

As an aside - I know a lot of people visit websites that claim to offer "Windows performance" tips, and present a list of services to disable (that you probably shouldn't, but they say you can).

Anyway, one of the services frequently recommended to remove is the "ATI hotkey poller". This is a TERRIBLE IDEA. This is the service that is responsible for switching between 2d and 3d mode for ATI cards.

(For my money, every one of those sites I've seen are bunk and offer 'free tips' just to drive advertising traffic. Windows isn't as bloated as they'd like you to believe, and stopping or uninstalling any of the standard services without good reason is usually a bad idea.)

[SinisterDexter]

Has anyone checked overdrive on their ATI cards after installing the 1.2 patch?
Just curious but, I won't be able to check mine 'til later...

[Clouseau]

it doesn't work. it's still in the 2d mode. no overdrive

[bunkerratt]

runs fine on the latest omega drivers ...

intel p-4 775 3.4ht em64t oc'd thermaltake big typhoon cpu cooler
asus p5gd2 deluxe
twin 100 gb hdd's raid 0 sata 2 hdd coolers
ati x1950pro 256pcie kwas 3000 water cooled /gpu
creative x-fi extreame music soundcard
enermax 600 watt psu
dvd rom
dvd r=rw dl
floppy
11 in 1 card reader
3 gb pc2 5300 oc'd
1 120 mm front intake fan
1 80 mm side intake
2 80 mm rear exhaust
northbridge/south bridge coolers
logitec 5.1 surround speakers
saitek eclipse keyboard
logitec tracman rollerball mouse cordless
xp pro sp2
20inch viewsonic vx2035wm

[SinisterDexter]

Bump.

Also, confirmed ATI does not go into overdrive with patch 1.2 (x1900xtx Catalyst 7.3)

Hard to believe its a driver issue and not a problem with SH4 since no other 3d apps seem to have this behavior..

I did manage to use ATI Tray Tools to force overclock to 675/783 but, could not reset to defaults without rebooting. Is anyone familiar with enough ATT to know how to bring the card back down?

Oh, BTW, it looked darn good with everything cranked up but, performance took too big a hit to play well without overdrive/overclock.

[Spectre-63]

I tried running my 1950XT up to the proper speeds (600/900) using ATT but kept getting an 'unable to start 3d engine' when ATT was running. As soon as I shut down ATT, SH4 ran properly.

Suggestions?

[MONOLITH]

I just got an X1950 Pro 512 last week, had no idea about this. Also never used the tools tray. I always only went through CCC, which does have an overclocking page.

I'll install the tools tray later today and see what i get, although it sounds from the responses that the 3D speeds definately don't come into play.

I know somewhere I might be able to get an answer though.....

[Marko_Ramius]

Hi all,


I haven't seen this post before now, and i'm surprised cause :

I use an ATI X1900XT with 7.2 ( now 7.3) and never have any problem you describe :o ( but maybe i didn't understood well ..)


I test it with ati tray tool hardware monitoring and osd and not a problem to get the 3d speed. I also tried a small overclocking with ati tray tool, overdrive feature ( ATI overdrive 3), and no problem to have 3d clock speed :hmm:


I don't use CCC, i never install this. Ati Tray Tool make the job, and more !! ( ATT 1.3.6.1018, i guess the last one).

Important thing when installing ATT is to answer no to the question related to the service "AT hotkey poller" ( keep it running).


Don't know what to say, this is strange .. But the good news is : Don't worry, it works ;)

[DaWizeGuy]

runs fine on the latest omega drivers ...

ati x1950pro 256pcie kwas 3000 water cooled /gpu


Your card doesn't fully support Overdrive. It has no separate 2D/3D clocks.

[Hartmann]

This problem is only for Ati cards ?? have the Gf cards the same issue ??

[bunkerratt]

1. DO NOT use the automatic clocking things in ATT and ATi Tool, they do NOT work with X1k series cards.

2a. Disabling the services put the card fully into your hands, fan speeds, voltages, etc, so you must watch what is happening and read the guide carefully and ask if your not sure (that will help me to improve the guide).
2b. Automatic clock changes are also removed when the services are disabled, both programs have options so they can detect when a 3D app starts and closes, and then loads the selected profile by you when they detect it. Or you can set them yourself.

3. With X1k series cards, even with the services disabled there can be clock changes without your input, like starting a game or a video which can lead to crashes when the drivers force standard 2D clock speeds, there is no fix as of yet. (New ATi Tray Tools fixes this issue)

4. You MUST set clocks before starting the client or a game or something 3D, as the clock change corrupts the data and of course it crashes ;)

5. On X1900 cards I think that mem bandwidth is more helpful than GPU mhz at during points. 625-650mhz core needs about 800-825mhz of mem speed to not have a big bottleneck, but thats only in 3D work, in this it may be different.

6. These programs do NOT relax timings, the only time they are relaxed is when using the CCC method when the ATi services are running. How I do it does not use CCC or the services. (Now, using the new way of overclocking it does when using driver level overclocking in ATi Tray Tools - If the machine is on 24.7 without you using it use low level overclocking.)




Software
ATi Tool (http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/Tweaking/ATITool) - Over clocking tool - although now not the one i’d use.
ATi Tray Tools (http://atitray.fangel.ru/tmp/attsetup.exe) - Over clocking tool. But has profiles for each program so you can have different clocks, quality settings etc on each one. Only install if your not using CCC.

Disclaimer: Do so at your OWN RISK blah blah.

First you must disable the two ATi services.

Start --> Run --> Type "services.msc" then disable both ATi services, the restart. Note this will stop the automatic change of clocks in 3D apps, but the programs below can do it for you.

ATi Tray Tools 3D
So here we go. First in the settings page make ATT start at Windows start. Plus bare in mind this part of the guide is based on a HiS IceQ X1900XT-X.

Then go to the Hardware panel and select over clocking settings.

You should be confronted with 3 tabs, ‘Over clocking’, ‘Fan’ and ‘Voltages’.

From the drop down menu on the 'Overclocking' tab, select "Driver level" over clocking, this will stop any clock changes when a video is started.

First we first want to make a 2D profile, so that when your not running the client you can set 2D clocks (like that will ever happen :p).

I have them set at the lowest the two sliders will go. So do that and then apply. Then press save as and save it as 2D. Tick load profile at start-up.
Next onto the ‘Fan’ tab, here you can set whatever you like but be reasonable. Don’t expect it to survive if you put it at 0 or 10% because sometimes 3D mode doesn’t kick in and it still can get very very hot even with a slow fan speed. Tick ‘Include In Profile’. Once you have set fan speeds, Apply and save as to the 2D profile. Now go to the ‘Voltage’ tab, here I have it set at 1.000V Core and 1.950V memory. But work your way down from the settings you find there. Most X1900s will do the same voltages as mine. Tick ‘Include In Profile’, apply and save as to the 2D profile.

Now, here you can test if you so wish, few loops of 3D Mark or just leave it. If the screen locks and the PC is still going, E.g. sounds then core voltage is too low. If you get artifacts/tears on the screen then memory voltage is too low. This applies to all clocking.


Now, Stock 3D!!

We have to work our way back from Voltages to clocks now, because if you set clocks with low voltage it will crash ;). So, set:

X1800 series: 1.425/2.089V
X1900 series: 1.4/2.089V
X1950 series: 1.4/2.089V

Apply and save as to a new profile called ‘Stock 3D’. Now, back to fan speeds, set your 3D fan speeds, apply and save to the ‘3D stock’ profile. Then onto the clocks page. Set them as follows:

X1800XL: 500/500
X1800XT: 625/750
X1800 GTO: 500/500
X1800 Crossfire Master Card: 625/750
X1900XT 512Mb: 625/725
X1900XT Crossfire Master Card: 625/725
X1900XTX: 650/775
X1950XT-X: 650/1000 (X1950 support is not yet avalible)

Apply and save to the 3D profile. Testing is tricky, 99% of the time it should be fine, but if you would like to test it by playing a game for a few hours then you may.


Over clocking 3D:

I don't think while the software is being BETA tested that you should over clock, but X1900XTs will do X1900XTX speeds easily in most cases. If you wish to over clock here is what you do:

I would work on core first, as the X1900 and possibly the X1800 series have a problem going over the CCC max of 690mhz on the core. Even with the services disabled. So work your way up to 690mhz, 10 mzh at a time. Most cards will do 690 on stock volts.

Once that is stable for 1 hour of gaming/2005/whatever. You can start on memory. Same principal as before, 10mhz at a time increasing mem voltage if required. Don’t go passed 2.15V atm as it crashes with the current version.

Finally, go to the Overdrive 3 page from the hardware menu and make sure the "apply at startup" box is NOT checked.

ATi Tool is the same, new profile, set clocks, then fan then voltages when setting 2D and then volts, fan then clocks when setting 3D. X1950 users can use ATi Tool to over clock/

[Marko_Ramius]

Good post Bunkerratt, but just a little thing :

The stock 3d voltage on the gpu on my X1900XT is 1.45 ( not 1.4) ;)

[bunkerratt]

see above disclaimer ...............sry on the misprint....the best part is you actually read it and paid attention to specs and ..you sir are a rare breed indeed!