SH3 + GWX better than SH4 ?

[999-Jay-999]

An question I am sure thats been covered before now but one I am quite honestly convinced with all the hard work thats gone into MODS making SH3 the ultimate SIM for Sub heads could SH4 ever be any better ?

[Corsair]

Besides personal tastes for one theater over the other, I think it's difficult (and not fair...) to compare a sim that's been out and heavily modded for a long time and another on release date (with what it looks like a few bugs from reading in the SH4 forum).
Once SH4 has received the necessary patches and has been modded for a few months you can then compare them.

[It762]

well sh4 got dedicated developers for a at least 1.5 yrs as well ?

[Corsair]

well sh4 got dedicated developers for a at least 1.5 yrs as well ?

Don't tell me you still believe in Santa Claus...:D

[joea]

well sh4 got dedicated developers for a at least 1.5 yrs as well ?

Don't tell me you still believe in Santa Claus...:D

:rotfl:

Agree with your first post as well, not a fair comparison. Still I think despite some bugs, including some that were not real bugs, SH4 has potential.

[P_Funk]

well sh4 got dedicated developers for a at least 1.5 yrs as well ?
I think that thats a pretty good point. The GWX team nad NYGM team put out pretty extensive mods (no offense to other mods) and the guys who did it had other jobs and lives to live.

The developers are paid to get the job done so if SH4 is lacking in much the same way that SH3 was then there is room to complain. Between the already existing game engine and the huge amount of community feedback they should be able to make a damn fine game. Oh, and they have the bloody source code too! Imagine how much easier GWX could have been to do with that level of control.

I think its totally fair to judge a fresh new game compared to another one thats well seasoned if the new game is the successor to the one which its compared to. The secret is progress. There shouldn't be an SH4 if it doesn't progress the Silent Hunter franchise.

Also when it comes down to it asking which is a better game is easy: SH3. SH4 hasn't been modded yet so we can't say its better and it won't be better til enough people start playing it to make it good enough to stand up to SH3.

[999-Jay-999]

Of course SH4 will be on par even much better after time goes by if the care and attention that went into SH3 goes into SH4... Graphically anyways.

What I mean though is there dramatically any more to it than graphical polish that SH4 offers over the seasoned SH3 ?... I would love to go out and buy it NOW but I get that feeling I be using an SH3-PLUS rather than a new dramatic Sub sim which SH4 seems not to be...

Just my feeling thats all.

[Hitman]

The developers are paid to get the job done so if SH4 is lacking in much the same way that SH3 was then there is room to complain. Between the already existing game engine and the huge amount of community feedback they should be able to make a damn fine game. Oh, and they have the bloody source code too! Imagine how much easier GWX could have been to do with that level of control.

I think its totally fair to judge a fresh new game compared to another one thats well seasoned if the new game is the successor to the one which its compared to.

Well yes and no IMHO...SH4 Devs get paid and have source code, that's right, but they also have UBI on their backs pushing for a commercial release and for cutting short the developement whenever possible. Modders have nearly all time they need at their will:hmm:

[Reece]

I haven't got my copy of SH4 yet, I have prepaid for the collectors edition (AU $100) but after reading the various threads over the last 2 days it looks to be a lemon! especially after reading the bug thread I felt quite sick!:cry::doh::dead: Atleast we have the best modders here at Subsim, we'll just have to pull ouselves together & fix it, like we had to do with SH3, since it has the same engine and format we are part way there!;)

[Iron Budokan]

Well, it's fair to compare SH3 and SH4 but it's not fair to compare SH3 + GWX with SH4 because one is heavily modded and the other is stock.

But, sure, it's more than fair to compare two stock sub sims. We do it all the time: AOD vs. Silent Service II vs. 688 vs DW vs SH3, ad nauseum. Nothing wrong with that.

And once I get my hot wittle hands on SH4 then you can be certain I will compare it with stock SH3 and decide which I like the better.

[IceGrog]

I love the Atlantic theater, I love these German rust buckets, and they seem so primitive compared to the Americans (just my opinion)
But my heart wants to sail USN submarine. So I will probably do both.

[Spray]

Currently SH3+GWX but SH3 vanilla gets swept off the deck by SH4. Shhhh dont tell the Amerikan rustbucket skippers.

(American spelt with a K intentionally)

[bigboywooly]

Damn it would have been nice to have the SDK and the top end PC's the Dev team use while working on GWX

And get paid :rotfl:

[scalelokt]

SH3 + GWX is better than SH4 as it was released. Once SH4 is modded and patched, I think SH4 will end up being the better game.

[bert8for3]

I won't be dropping SH3+GWX, it's far too good. That's not to pre-judge SH4 and what it may become with modding, and I'll play both. I just can't see it getting better than yesterday ... on patrol in the Western Approaches, about 3 weeks into the patrol. Just single ship contacts via hydrophone which ok, but looking/hoping for a convoy with only 4 torps left. All of a sudden a convoy report pops up (only one so far this patrol) about 10 hours away on intercept. I run the intercept and zilch, but it's a slow convoy, so I run ahead of where it should be if it had altered course, diving for sound check. Do this repeatedly with zilch results up and down the projected time/speed track on different course assumptions for the convoy until after 12+ hours I pick up the convoy on hydrophones. The weather's meanwhile settled down to a pouring rain and fog, with visibility down to no more than 600 meters (confirmed because picked up a single contact meantime who came into sight at 600 meters). Zero in on a sound intercept for the convoy, diving every now and then for bearing check. Chugging along at 6 knots surfaced, waiting for something to appear out of the fog, when all of a sudden a large merchant looms out of the fog at 30 deg, followed by another off my stern quarter ... I'm in the middle of the convoy. Already set up for shot on the large merchant, wait for him to come to 10 deg for shoot, expecting him to see me and veer off, but he continues straight. Shoot and the torp hits him just ahead of the superstructure. I'm pretty sure he's going down, but can't wait around as by now I have searchlights on me from the other merchant and an escort has appeared out of the fog off my port bow and starts firing. Crash dive. Got away submerged after an hour and half pounding, during which heard the large merchant go down.

It doesn't get better than that ... sorry for the ramble.

[Corsair]

And anyway why always think one game or one mod or one way to play the game is better than the other ? It all depends from personal taste... Important thing is that each of us is enjoying what he is playing (which can be both)
For instance for me SH4 could have fantastic graphics, nice gameplay, no bugs, I still wouldn't buy it because I have no interest in driving US subs in the PTO. But if I did, I could imagine playing both games, the same way I enjoy playing both NYGM and GWX mods, and enjoy at different times "hardcore" patrols with 100 realism and manual navigation or "relax" patrols with fatigue off and external cams...;)

[MRV]

SH4 has the better graphics, thats for sure, and is -in this respect- more realistic.

What I am afraid of is the gameplay. SH3 came in a pretty arcade-like way, it was realistic, but not as much as us sim-players wanted. It was obvious to me that Ubisoft targeted the arcade-action-player more than the subsimmer, just to name the unrealistic values of deck gun damage and depth charges for example. It was up to the community to mod that game to pefection, as it was done by GWX and NYGM.

Due to the pressure on the developers to reach a large number of players, I fear that SH4 will be in the same state as vanilla SH3, what really would be a shame because after playing GWX for a while, I don't feel the urge to play a vanilla SH4.

[Corsair]

One thing to remember I once read on these forums : the hardcore sub simmers community represents around 2% of the total SH3 sales...;)

[MRV]

Yes but I dont know why, because things like GWX are highly realistic and still provide enough action. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

I can not comment at the moment. I do not have SH4 as yet. From what I have seen thus far SH4 has some shortcomings but so did SH3. Look at SH3 now:up: Based on that, SH4 will be just as good if not better than SH3....IMHO.

[Mush Martin]

I Feel that if we are even considering this question in such depths
it bespeaks of the flexability and quality of SH3 as one of the
great simulations in gaming history. I expect that as the devs
for sh4 are the same it probably is a little early to condemn it
yet. I am sure that although no sdk was released that we would
all agree that SH3 in spite of that, has proven to be a very moddable
game.

Further though as the community that has loved SH3 put it under our
microscopes taken it apart and put it back together and done it all
again. that we are a biased audience.

we should consider that as what would amount to experts on
SH3 gaming we are bound to be looking deeply and looking with
a critical eye when we look at SH4.

We do not look upon sh4, with the same eyes as UBI
or the new player discovering sub simming for the first time.
what we need I think to consider is that as the attendence
numbers here at subsim grow steadily everyday now. that
SH4 has already contributed to the community prior to our
inevitable contribution to sh4.

as a Highly artful user freindly more arcadelike in depth sim.
it will draw enough new players in all likelyhood to double
the permanent membership here at subsim. That means
a broader base of knowledge and experience all around and
more eyes to look for stuff needed or desired.

I think that as the Game Engine is the one used by the
previous Champion that the pedigree is good and the
potential is there not only for sh4 to evolve into a vibrant
game of the quality in sh3 but also the potential still
exists for sh3 to continue in vitality for many years to
come Parrallel but different than SH4
Mutually polinated by each other.

I believe its been said that for the 100%er's that SH4 wont
work to the same level of total limiting settings and style.(?)
if so, then any of the sh4 noobs that get the 100% bug would
quite naturally look at sh3 as the premier source of experience.

I think the potential for mutual fruition and benefit is there
not in the sense of one being better or worse than the other
but in the sense that being different is just that.

I have studied both campaigns at some length and both
read better than fiction, there is a wealth and richness
in the subject these games deal with that will keep them
valid to players and modders over other games for a very
very very longtime in the world of here today and gone
tommorow video games.

I am sure that History will never forget the name SIlent Hunter.

after all if final fantasy can run eleven versions or better.
MM

[edit] ive just been watching the counter there is a new
attendence record going up about every 15 seconds at
the moment.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I can not comment at the moment. I do not have SH4 as yet. From what I have seen thus far SH4 has some shortcomings but so did SH3. Look at SH3 now:up: Based on that, SH4 will be just as good if not better than SH3....IMHO.
SH3 did have shortcomings, so I think we need to wait awhile until a fair comparision can be made. Just look what modding did to SH3:yep: To say the same can't be done to SH4 would be short-sighted.

Edit: Hopefully future patches will fix early bugs in the games as well.

[Ducimus]

SH3 supermods (GWX or NYGM) add polish to the core gameplay. But the gameplay is still essentually the same regardless of which supermod you use or don't use.

[Reece]

Well the "SH4 bug thread" has gone from bad to worse, now men are 2D thin as paper, useing stadimeter 100% CTD, convoys crossing Japanese mainland, missions that can't be completed, very bad sound problems where by the sounds just keep repeating unless you restart SH4 etc etc, you have to read it to believe it!:cry:
Lucky I phoned EB and was able to cancel the order and get my $100 back, whew!:yep:
Wisest choice I've made!:yep:
Now back to SH3!!:up:

[stabiz]

SH4 has the better graphics, thats for sure, and is -in this respect- more realistic.

I disagree. It looks wierd. (and no FSAA)

It does, however, have 3D damage and crew on decks. Thats a huge plus.

[Reece]

I know this is stupid but I replaced the order!:damn::88):roll:
I have never been so frustrated with a purchase of a game ever!:oops:

Will probably go and cancel it tomorrow!:yep:
This is what my expectations are for SH4::down: :up: :damn: :D

[bigboywooly]

:rotfl:

In a bit of a quandary there Reece ?

[Hitman]

I know this is stupid but I replaced the order!:damn::88):roll:
I have never been so frustrated with a purchase of a game ever!:oops:

Will probably go and cancel it tomorrow!:yep:
This is what my expectations are for SH4::down: :up: :damn: :D


Easy man, easy...:o don't let the thread go off-topic...there is already a set if topics about SH4 in the SH4 forum. No need to complaint about it here.

[P_Funk]

It costs you $100? Thats insane. I bought SH3 the week it came out for $60. Within a few months it was down to $20.

I wouldn't buy SH4 for $100 either. :p

[Khourieat]

Yes but I dont know why, because things like GWX are highly realistic and still provide enough action. ;)

Because it would turn off other people who haven't been as deeply involved in sub sims? It makes perfect sense that most of the sales go to more "relaxed' players, for lack of a better term. But isn't that MS flight sim supposed to be pretty realistic also? Isn't it a popular title?

They really should be able to appeal to both groups, that's what all of those realism setings are for :yep:

But between one or the other, I'd rather they keep releasing the version that is going to make them lots of money, so they can keep releasing more of them, rather then having them release a super-hardcore version that flops financially from low sales and causes them to drop the title altogether :dead:

I haven't picked up Sh4, but I think I'd like to, after I'm done with Sh3...barely have any time to play games these days.

And probably with time I'm sure we'll see some really amazing (and incredily realistic & difficult) mods for SH4 :yep:

[Brag]

Damn it would have been nice to have the SDK and the top end PC's the Dev team use while working on GWX

And get paid :rotfl:

UBI should realize that forming a paid team of "our" modders would be good business. Gwixers would come out with a knock-your socks-off SH5. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[Brag]

One thing to remember I once read on these forums : the hardcore sub simmers community represents around 2% of the total SH3 sales...;)

It would be interesting to see a tally of GWX downloads ( For whatever this indicates, In 2.5 months I had 1470 visitors to my SH3 info website).

[drewsbu]

I'm new to sub sims and the SH series. I'm stuck and I need help for what game to buy.

I like the Atlantic better, but I also like the graphics SH4 will give.

Which game do I get SH3 with GWX? or a better graphic/ buggier game in sh4?

[P_Funk]

Well if you're looking for the best complete game, then the easy choice is SH3. SH3 has been patched and it has numberous mods both small and massive which give you many different possibilities for making a better experience.

In terms of mods it isn't even just GWX. GWX is like an eye candy meets hardcore sim mod. NYGM forgoes much of the superior graphics for a similarly difficult game. However the War Ace Campaign mod is almost strictly about visual and dynamic improvements that make the game more exiting and action packed while not modding most of the actual hardcore sim stuff from the vanilla version; meaning that it is more of an eye cady mod. So there, SH3 has lots of options for a better, more stable game that is still being improved.

SH4 however is the newbie. Its the same game engine only significantly improved in terms of graphics. The interface has also seen a few nice additions though nothing thats exactly a lightspeed jump ahead. The campaign itself I hear is certainly better done. But its justbeen released and though it has already been patched once it is far from complete or even satisfactory in many people's opinions. Also though SH4 looks better there are still issues with the graphics that aren't even fully understood yet.

Ultimately its a matter of taste but I'd say that SH3, currently priced around $20, is a much better deal for what you get. SH4 WILL be worth it one day but at the moment it is far from up to SH3 caliber. You say you prefer the Atlantic so SH3 I'd think would be your fit.